Would you give her the benefit of doubt?

[AMM003]

Hey everyone! I actually started dating again after being broken up for about a year. The NC actually worked for all those who are trying to do the same.

 

I have been dating this woman for about 2 months. I met her online. We emailed, texted, and chatted on the phone for about 1 and 1/2 before actually going out on a date. Our date went well and ended with a couple kisses. At the end of the date, we planned our next date. Things seemed to be going well for me.

 

As our relationship progressed, i started learning some things that were pretty uncomfortable to me.

 

1. She had almost all guy friends and just a couple girl friends. We discussed this and she stated that she never cheats on "her man". That her guy friends were just friends and if they did try something then they wouldn't be friends anymore. Sometimes they would come over and spend the night and sometimes she would go to visit them and spend the night. She sounded pretty adamant about this. She clearly stated that she was with me and she would not cheat on "her guy". She stated that she cheated on her first husband only after he started cheating on her first. I took all she about her guy friends in stride. I didn't make a big deal about since we had the discussion and I am a pretty laid back guy. After we talked initially, i did the only thing I could think of doing. And said, "Cool, I like to meet them sometime.".

 

2.The way we communicated. I started to get her daily schedule down to find the best time to talk. Or just text if it was in the middle of the day. Alot of times, i would call and she would text back and would end it with "call u later". It was almost impossible to talk to her on the phone in the late afternoon. Weird because she would get off work between 2:30 and 3:30. And would have to pick up her kids till 6:00. Quite often, I would text for her to call me when she had a chance. And then I wouldn't hear from her till 9:00 in the evening. I always thought to myself that it just doesn't take that long to text or call, even for just a minute. On a couple occasions, she texted me that she was going to go to bed. I would call back, not but a few minutes later, and no answer. But I gave her the benefit of the doubt and didn't to push that issue either. Just in case, she really was that busy.

 

3.After we fooled around the 2nd time, she asked if I was seeing anyone. I was a little puzzled with this. I asked her the same. I just never thought to ask. Why would she asked AFTER we fooled around a couple times?

 

4.I asked her if she had condoms. She said she bought a box from Costc* and kept 5 of them for herself. That she had gave them to her sister so she didn't get pregnant. I thought to myself.... Why such a random number like "5"? Why didn't she say "some"? Like, "I kept "some" for myself". And from Costc*!! How many condoms are in a box when you buy them from a warehouse store?

 

So anyhow, a couple weeks ago. I overheard her talking with one of her guy friends. And she was talking about his schedule. And when they could hang out. I went outside for the majority of the conversation so I did not hear the brunt of it. When I got back inside, she told me who it was. It was a guy friend she had known for 10 years. We had plans the following weekend and wanted to make plans in case those fell thru. So I suggested that he come down and we could all hang out. Or if she wanted we could go up there and hang out. She said okay. A few days later, she is visibly upset. She tells me everyone and everything is pulling at her. and she doesn't have time for everyone and to do the things she needs. That she had to get all these things done and couldn't do our weekend. I told her to take care of her business and I would step back a bit. I told her to do the things she needed to do and see the people she needed to see.. Invite them down if needed.

 

I don't hear from her for 2 days. No text, calls, emails. I call on the morning of the third day to see how she's doing. She doesn't answer as usual. But then calls a few minutes later. She driving back from her guy friends house an hour away. She said she had to "get away" and just hung out there. SO I just asked point blank, "Did you fool around with him?". Then goes into the story how she doesn't sleep with her guy friends. And that she had known him for 8 years(she said 10 the week before). She ended with, "I did sleep in his bed with my clothes on.". I didn't say much after that. We just talked the other things she had going on at that time.

 

After I hung up, I didn't talk to her the rest of the day. Nor did she try to call or text either. The next day at work, I asked several work friends about the "sleeping in the bed with the clothes on" and if they would buy that. All of them said it was just total BS. And when I asked several close friends, only one believed she didn't do anything. So 12 out 13 people believed she did something!

 

I got my stuff from her house a day later. We mutually agreed that she has too much going on in her life. She actually does. And that we should remain friends till she has her things in order. I didn't ask anymore of the past weekend. All I know, is she just up and left to spend the night with her guy friend.

 

Would you believe her story? I really do like her but that is too much for me to handle. I probably did piss her off by asking so bluntly.

 

Thanks

[AMM003]

Something tells me that no matter what she's doing you're going to have trust issues with her and will eventually drive her away with them. Probably better to date other chicks in addition to this one, then you won't care quite so much.

 

Interesting because I thought I was being pretty cool with her. One of the things that bothered me is that she never even told me what she was up to that weekend. Not even a text to let me know what was up for the weekend. It was OUR weekend to do some something.

[silic0ntoad]

She's full of sh*t.

 

Forget her. She banged this guy and probably many of the others, that or is dating around on you.

[seibert253]

I think she banged the other guy. Pretty simple. When you asked, if she didn't, No, would have been an immediate response. When she laid into the whole, I've known him for X amount of years, and all the other nonsense, that shows evasiveness, thus deception. Then she "admits", she slept in his bed, but kept her clothes on. Come On! I really hope you didn't buy that.

OK, lets say for the sake of arguement she didn't F him, and slept in his bed with her clothes on. To me that's extremely disrespectful to you. Women in supposed committed relationships do not share a bed, clothed or not, with a man other than her BF or H. Period!

IMO you need to let her go and find a girl who's trustworthy. She is not.

Peace,

[Bryanp]

Seibert is right on. A person that is telling the truth would say NO. A person that is lying will speak in long sentences and keeping talking and spinning stories. She probably banged this guy and is playing you for a fool and I think you know it.

[AMM003]

Better sense tells me that, yes, there is something terribly wrong with this situation. My ego is wishing otherwise though. I haven't talked with her since picking up my stuff. We left it at "friends" at that point. I don't know if she'll call but almost everyone says to cut her loose.

[confused and broken]

She sounds like a total basket case

I have no idea if she cheated on you... The real question is even from what you know to be the truth (never calls, unavailable, only has time for her friends, sleeps over at her guy friends houses and they sleep over at hers)

Is this really the type of chick you want to be with?

Sounds to me like she has issues

You sound ready for a real relationship

Stop punishing yourself and find a girl who is worth your time (she isn't)

[Dexter Morgan]

Would you believe her story?

 

nope. and would I give her the benefit of the doubt? nope....I'd give her walking papers.

 

 

I really do like her but that is too much for me to handle. I probably did piss her off by asking so bluntly.

 

let me get this straight.....she is an obvious runaround with no respect for you.....and you are afraid of her??

[amerikajin]

1. She had almost all guy friends and just a couple girl friends. We discussed this and she stated that she never cheats on "her man". That her guy friends were just friends and if they did try something then they wouldn't be friends anymore.

 

This used to drive me crazy. I never have had a problem with a woman having guy friends, but at the same time, a man has to know what is on another man's mind. Don't ever bullsh*t yourself about that.

 

The thing is, a woman may actually not have bad intentions. She might seriously mean it when she says that Jack is a friend. It's just that, well, things can happen, and they often happen because the odds are that the more time that two people spend with each other, the greater the likelihood that sparks can fly. Sure, she might not be anything more than "friends" now, but what if their "friendship" ends in a kiss one night after a good time together -- as, uh, "friends". In her mind, she's not even cheating because all she has to do is pick up the phone and call you and end it - done deal. No guilt. And of course the more you ask, the more defensive about it she will be - because after all, they're just "friends".

 

What I figured out is that girls hang out with guy friends because they're insecure. They want and need lots of attention. They crave the attention like a strong drink. I dated a girl who was just like I described and even blogged about it here. She was, in truth, actually a pretty good girl but the hanging out with guys thing never made me easy. I just got to the point where, to put my nerves at ease, I started hanging out with other chicks, which really wasn't any better. Ultimately, there was too much distance, too much discomfort in our relationship and we broke up after a few months. We're still friendly and keep in contact to this day, ironically, but the relationship just didn't work, and it can't under the circumstances you describe.

 

Now, having gotten that out of the way, let's address this girl more specifically.

 

Sometimes they would come over and spend the night and sometimes she would go to visit them and spend the night. She sounded pretty adamant about this. She clearly stated that she was with me and she would not cheat on "her guy".

 

This is not good. No girl should ever get defensive about having co-ed sleep overs for crying out loud. If she were really into you, she would not be defending what is obviously self-absorbed behavior. She's basically telling you that she will do whatever she wants and you can piss off. If that were the case, I would be out of there pronto. But to be honest, I doubt I would have ever gotten this far to begin with. She's just self-centered and you can see this a mile away if you really look at someone objectively, which you're probably not.

 

She stated that she cheated on her first husband only after he started cheating on her first. I took all she about her guy friends in stride. I didn't make a big deal about since we had the discussion and I am a pretty laid back guy. After we talked initially, i did the only thing I could think of doing. And said, "Cool, I like to meet them sometime.".

 

Dude, just leave her. You're getting set up for some heartbreak. She cheated on her first husband and that's her excuse? Don't you see what's going on here? She's not worth your time. Just stop dating her. Stop calling her. Just cut her off. She's bad for you.

 

2.The way we communicated. I started to get her daily schedule down to find the best time to talk. Or just text if it was in the middle of the day. Alot of times, i would call and she would text back and would end it with "call u later". It was almost impossible to talk to her on the phone in the late afternoon. Weird because she would get off work between 2:30 and 3:30. And would have to pick up her kids till 6:00. Quite often, I would text for her to call me when she had a chance. And then I wouldn't hear from her till 9:00 in the evening. I always thought to myself that it just doesn't take that long to text or call, even for just a minute. On a couple occasions, she texted me that she was going to go to bed. I would call back, not but a few minutes later, and no answer. But I gave her the benefit of the doubt and didn't to push that issue either. Just in case, she really was that busy.

 

Sounds like she's moved on already. That's not a bad thing, actually. I would just leave her alone and move on to someone else.

 

I got my stuff from her house a day later. We mutually agreed that she has too much going on in her life. She actually does. And that we should remain friends till she has her things in order. I didn't ask anymore of the past weekend. All I know, is she just up and left to spend the night with her guy friend.

 

Trust me, you made the right call. Find someone else.

 

Who cares if she's pissed off?

[AMM003]

let me get this straight.....she is an obvious runaround with no respect for you.....and you are afraid of her??

 

Appreciate the input Dexter. I read alot of your responses and they make alot of sense. I'm def not afraid of her. After that weekend of not hearing from her then telling me what she did (or didn't do). And then not talking to her for a bit. I think she understood why I was leaving. That I didn't buy it. In hindsight, I should've been clear exactly why. I really did wanna be cool, get my stuff, and leave. And that's what I did.

 

 

The only person that cast doubt in my mind was one of my closest friends. And I think that fed my ego. Whilst the others, that said it was BS, fed my common sense.

[AMM003]

Trust me, you made the right call. Find someone else.

 

Thanks. Your comments made alot of sense.

 

Part of the discussion on her guy friends was actually THEIR intentions. Especially on a night that included alcohol. Yeah, things can and do happen in those scenarios.

[FryFish]

Chicks who think they actually have male "just friends" are .... fools.

[SecretSquirrel]

IMO at least half of your points below are retarded nitpicking and/or game-playing (by you).

 

You do have a few very solid reasons for concern, however. I would have a difficult time believing her story as well. Regardless of whether or not she's telling the truth though, I think her biggest flaw here is that she's not really trying to make you comfortable with her, her actions, the relationship...

 

 

 

Hey everyone! I actually started dating again after being broken up for about a year. The NC actually worked for all those who are trying to do the same.

 

I have been dating this woman for about 2 months. I met her online. We emailed, texted, and chatted on the phone for about 1 and 1/2 before actually going out on a date. Our date went well and ended with a couple kisses. At the end of the date, we planned our next date. Things seemed to be going well for me.

 

As our relationship progressed, i started learning some things that were pretty uncomfortable to me.

 

1. She had almost all guy friends and just a couple girl friends. We discussed this and she stated that she never cheats on "her man". That her guy friends were just friends and if they did try something then they wouldn't be friends anymore. Sometimes they would come over and spend the night and sometimes she would go to visit them and spend the night. She sounded pretty adamant about this. She clearly stated that she was with me and she would not cheat on "her guy". She stated that she cheated on her first husband only after he started cheating on her first. I took all she about her guy friends in stride. I didn't make a big deal about since we had the discussion and I am a pretty laid back guy. After we talked initially, i did the only thing I could think of doing. And said, "Cool, I like to meet them sometime.".

 

2.The way we communicated. I started to get her daily schedule down to find the best time to talk. Or just text if it was in the middle of the day. Alot of times, i would call and she would text back and would end it with "call u later". It was almost impossible to talk to her on the phone in the late afternoon. Weird because she would get off work between 2:30 and 3:30. And would have to pick up her kids till 6:00. Quite often, I would text for her to call me when she had a chance. And then I wouldn't hear from her till 9:00 in the evening. I always thought to myself that it just doesn't take that long to text or call, even for just a minute. On a couple occasions, she texted me that she was going to go to bed. I would call back, not but a few minutes later, and no answer. But I gave her the benefit of the doubt and didn't to push that issue either. Just in case, she really was that busy.

 

3.After we fooled around the 2nd time, she asked if I was seeing anyone. I was a little puzzled with this. I asked her the same. I just never thought to ask. Why would she asked AFTER we fooled around a couple times?

 

4.I asked her if she had condoms. She said she bought a box from Costc* and kept 5 of them for herself. That she had gave them to her sister so she didn't get pregnant. I thought to myself.... Why such a random number like "5"? Why didn't she say "some"? Like, "I kept "some" for myself". And from Costc*!! How many condoms are in a box when you buy them from a warehouse store?

 

So anyhow, a couple weeks ago. I overheard her talking with one of her guy friends. And she was talking about his schedule. And when they could hang out. I went outside for the majority of the conversation so I did not hear the brunt of it. When I got back inside, she told me who it was. It was a guy friend she had known for 10 years. We had plans the following weekend and wanted to make plans in case those fell thru. So I suggested that he come down and we could all hang out. Or if she wanted we could go up there and hang out. She said okay. A few days later, she is visibly upset. She tells me everyone and everything is pulling at her. and she doesn't have time for everyone and to do the things she needs. That she had to get all these things done and couldn't do our weekend. I told her to take care of her business and I would step back a bit. I told her to do the things she needed to do and see the people she needed to see.. Invite them down if needed.

 

I don't hear from her for 2 days. No text, calls, emails. I call on the morning of the third day to see how she's doing. She doesn't answer as usual. But then calls a few minutes later. She driving back from her guy friends house an hour away. She said she had to "get away" and just hung out there. SO I just asked point blank, "Did you fool around with him?". Then goes into the story how she doesn't sleep with her guy friends. And that she had known him for 8 years(she said 10 the week before). She ended with, "I did sleep in his bed with my clothes on.". I didn't say much after that. We just talked the other things she had going on at that time.

 

After I hung up, I didn't talk to her the rest of the day. Nor did she try to call or text either. The next day at work, I asked several work friends about the "sleeping in the bed with the clothes on" and if they would buy that. All of them said it was just total BS. And when I asked several close friends, only one believed she didn't do anything. So 12 out 13 people believed she did something!

 

I got my stuff from her house a day later. We mutually agreed that she has too much going on in her life. She actually does. And that we should remain friends till she has her things in order. I didn't ask anymore of the past weekend. All I know, is she just up and left to spend the night with her guy friend.

 

Would you believe her story? I really do like her but that is too much for me to handle. I probably did piss her off by asking so bluntly.

 

Thanks

[AMM003]

IMO at least half of your points below are retarded nitpicking and/or game-playing (by you).

 

Please elaborate.

 

Would my observations be a concern to any other guy or girl if given the same situation?

[Joe Normal]

98% of male friends are "friends" because they want to bone the chick. That's all you need to know about this woman - dump her and don't look back.

[AMM003]

I went to see my therapist who I haven't seen in a few months. I told her the story my OP. She basically told me to take what she said about "sleeping in her friends bed with her clothes on" for face value. She said the facts will probably never be known. And to not know all the facts would surely lead to misinterpretation. However, she basically told me to base my decision whether there is a chance for our relationship on facts I knew to be true. (which a few of you had already advised).

 

Of course, she puts it a bit more eloquently.

[SecretSquirrel]

You have reason for concern for sure. I just think you added a ton of information that IMO is nitpicking and not the real issue. Much of them are things a normal person wouldn't think twice about; I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that because you don't trust your GF you're trying to make some of these things fit as evidence to support your case. That's JMO.

 

Also, wouldn't go so far as to say that she's cheating or anything. As your therapist said, you will never know. As I stated in my first post, what you do know is that she doesn't respect your feelings, and you have different boundaries than she does, you are not comfortable with her boundaries/behavior, and she doesn't care that you're not comfortable.

 

By focusing on her cheating you're either looking to be a victim, or trying to make the break up easier for you or something.

[amerikajin]

I went to see my therapist who I haven't seen in a few months. I told her the story my OP. She basically told me to take what she said about "sleeping in her friends bed with her clothes on" for face value. She said the facts will probably never be known. And to not know all the facts would surely lead to misinterpretation. However, she basically told me to base my decision whether there is a chance for our relationship on facts I knew to be true. (which a few of you had already advised).

 

Of course, she puts it a bit more eloquently.

 

It's all in how you frame things.

 

Any girl you date has the right to do as she pleases. If she wants to hang out and insists on having her guy friends, she's free to do that. You can't really control what she does or how she thinks. Don't waste your time trying. You can't control someone else.

 

But you can control you. If you don't like your girl hanging out with guy friends all the time and having sleepovers, then just say so. And if she doesn't respect your concerns, then decide what the consequences should be. If it were me, I would end it. I wouldn't be bitter or angry, but I would end it. That's my line and I don't want it crossed. There are plenty of other women out there who won't do this to a guy. You have to decide what your boundaries are and then decide what you're going to do when people cross the threshold of what you consider to be unacceptable. Nothing more, nothing less. That approach takes a lot of stress out of dating.

[AMM003]

You have reason for concern for sure. I just think you added a ton of information that IMO is nitpicking and not the real issue. Much of them are things a normal person wouldn't think twice about; I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that because you don't trust your GF you're trying to make some of these things fit as evidence to support your case. That's JMO.

 

Also, wouldn't go so far as to say that she's cheating or anything. As your therapist said, you will never know. As I stated in my first post, what you do know is that she doesn't respect your feelings, and you have different boundaries than she does, you are not comfortable with her boundaries/behavior, and she doesn't care that you're not comfortable.

 

By focusing on her cheating you're either looking to be a victim, or trying to make the break up easier for you or something.

 

Gotcha. I see your approach. Very good point. I can somehat agree that I have trying to justify the end of the relationship and validate the time spent in it.

[AMM003]

It's all in how you frame things.

 

Any girl you date has the right to do as she pleases. If she wants to hang out and insists on having her guy friends, she's free to do that. You can't really control what she does or how she thinks. Don't waste your time trying. You can't control someone else.

 

But you can control you. If you don't like your girl hanging out with guy friends all the time and having sleepovers, then just say so. And if she doesn't respect your concerns, then decide what the consequences should be. If it were me, I would end it. I wouldn't be bitter or angry, but I would end it. That's my line and I don't want it crossed. There are plenty of other women out there who won't do this to a guy. You have to decide what your boundaries are and then decide what you're going to do when people cross the threshold of what you consider to be unacceptable. Nothing more, nothing less. That approach takes a lot of stress out of dating.

 

True and agreed. There was no point in stating the "boundary" when I talked with her after the fact. It had already been crossed and I believe she didn't even wanna approach the subject beforehand.

 

I haven't contacted since picking up my stuff. She texted me yesterday with, "hi. I hope you have a fabulous day!". Go figure?

[SecretSquirrel]

Gotcha. I see your approach. Very good point. I can somehat agree that I have trying to justify the end of the relationship and validate the time spent in it.

 

It's understandable, but you'll just drive yourself crazy that way.

 

I should know, I did the same thing in a relationship where there were trust issues.

 

It might be harder in the short-term, but in the long-term (and in future relationships) you'll be better off to forget about whether or not she cheated, just accept that you will probably never know, and focus on what I and amerikajan said about boundaries.

[AMM003]

Sorry guys to spinoff from my original post:

 

Like I mentioned, I haven't tried to contact her since I picked up my stuff. I haven't had any intention. Well, maybe I came close twice when I was ripped stinkin drunk on a couple evenings. But I didn't

 

After NC for a week and half. She did text me yesterday. She wrote "Hi! I hope you have a fabulous day!)

 

Lol. What the heck is this?

[lostsunsets]

Sorry guys to spinoff from my original post:

 

After NC for a week and half. She did text me yesterday. She wrote "Hi! I hope you have a fabulous day!)

 

Lol. What the heck is this?

 

Its how she trivializes your pain and disappointment at the same time she proves just how shallow and immature she is. One thing you can be sure of, based on her actions. She will most definitely suffer from STDs

[troggleputty]

I went to see my therapist who I haven't seen in a few months. I told her the story my OP. She basically told me to take what she said about "sleeping in her friends bed with her clothes on" for face value. She said the facts will probably never be known.

 

Umm...OK.

 

Let's take what your therapist said at "face value" and analyze it closely.

 

When your therapist told you that "the facts will probably never be known," then what your therapist is actually telling you is that your (now ex) gf is untrustworthy. (At best.)

 

IOW your therapist was telling you that you can't trust the things that your ex gf was telling you about what she was actually doing. If the therapist thought your ex was trustworthy your therapist would have asked you "Why don't you believe her?"

 

As such, there is nothing more you need to "know." You don't need to know the "facts" of what happened. All you need to know is that your ex was/is untrustworthy, as confirmed by your therapist's statement to you.

 

 

 

And to not know all the facts would surely lead to misinterpretation.

 

No this is beside the point. First, having sleepovers with other guys even if "nothing else happened" is an obvious deal-breaker. You don't have sleepovers with guys unless you have or are seeking an intimate emotional/physical connection.

 

There's is nothing to "misinterpret" here.

 

Also, despite the fact that your therapist implicitly told you that your ex was untrustworthy--i.e. you could not trust your ex's words--your therapist is claiming a misinterpretation would somehow be your fault?

 

 

 

However, she basically told me to base my decision whether there is a chance for our relationship on facts I knew to be true. (which a few of you had already advised).

 

Of course, she puts it a bit more eloquently.

 

Why on earth would your therapist suggest that you should even remotely consider staying in a relationship with a woman who is at the least acting in a dismissive and emotionally abusive manner towards you?

 

Time for a new therapist, methinks.

[AMM003]

 

When your therapist told you that "the facts will probably never be known," then what your therapist is actually telling you is that your (now ex) gf is untrustworthy. (At best.)

 

IOW your therapist was telling you that you can't trust the things that your ex gf was telling you about what she was actually doing. If the therapist thought your ex was trustworthy your therapist would have asked you "Why don't you believe her?"

 

As such, there is nothing more you need to "know." You don't need to know the "facts" of what happened. All you need to know is that your ex was/is untrustworthy, as confirmed by your therapist's statement to you.

 

No this is beside the point. First, having sleepovers with other guys even if "nothing else happened" is an obvious deal-breaker. You don't have sleepovers with guys unless you have or are seeking an intimate emotional/physical connection.

 

Also, despite the fact that your therapist implicitly told you that your ex was untrustworthy--i.e. you could not trust your ex's words--your therapist is claiming a misinterpretation would somehow be your fault?

 

Why on earth would your therapist suggest that you should even remotely consider staying in a relationship with a woman who is at the least acting in a dismissive and emotionally abusive manner towards you?

 

Time for a new therapist, methinks.

 

I told her that I do like alot of things about my ex. It was just getting to be too much with all the baggage and extras she brought to the relationship. And we talked about the baggage I just "unloaded" the past couple years. And that she didn't think it was good for me to take on "all" that came with my ex.

 

When she told me to take what she said for face value, it was already after the fact. I had already been apprehensive of the fact she had mostly guys friends. I was just trying be cool and see how that would go when her and her friends wanted to hang out. But I didn't even get a chance to discuss it with her before she went on her weekend visit.

 

So she wanted for me to concentrate on the things I knew that were true. And the obvious concerns had my relationship continued (as many had said here already). To not concentrate on the the things I didn't have all the facts about. It was a waste of my mental energy and surely (as she knows me), would cause me to misinterpret(guess) what went on during the previous week prior to her weekend getaway.