hi

[Hazyhead]

wow heartache all round i guess and only one ultimate winner.........his ego.

 

May I ask and this question could be asked to anyone not just the OW/OM.

 

Can you ever seriously expect somebody capable of two timing/having an affaire to be faithful to you? I ask because i had RED FLAGS at the begginning of our relationship because he told me he constantly cheated on his ex wife (long before me) Now being the numpty i am I thought .....well he was young. He knows i wouldnt tollerate it. He wont. But he did. I feel i was dumb to expect him to respect me.

 

Do you beleive you can trust a person that has done it before?

 

Nobby:love:

 

An interesting question. I had thought about it, but like you said I thought 'Nah... it wouldn't happen again'. However, I was his second affair during his marriage (his first M but together 20 years) so the odds are not good. I do think, now that I'm out of it, that he may change now that he's a father and open up to his W more, if they decide to work things out. May I ask, Nobby, did your H have counseling after his last M ended?

[White Flower]

 

Do you beleive you can trust a person that has done it before?

 

Nobby:love:

Well, once a cheater always a cheater....until HE wants to stop. The question is, WHEN does he want to stop? Depending on age, desire to stop, and the possibility he is with someone he really loves and who can support him can help determine the possible outcome here.

[Lizzie60]

To be honest, no. I don't think about the W or the kids... although I want to make sure the MM will not leave his family for me.. this is very well understood.

 

We talk about the W and the marriage.. sometimes... about the kids, often.... but I don't feel any guilt... he should ..not me..

 

In some cases, I think I do her a favour.. ;)

[nobmagnet]

hi all,

 

to answer the question if he got help after the first marriage............he didnt see why! What did he do but be there for her!!!!!!!(his words) errrrrr no.

 

I have to add i got pregnant by him when this all came out of his oh so pleasant mouth. and was 4 months gone and worried already having been a single mum for 9 years before him . (yes i should have been more careful) i was on the pill but not great at taking it.

 

ugh

nobby xx

 

PS love my son tho! he is a star:love::love: dont regret it

[nobmagnet]

Lizzie,

 

may I ask why ( as you imply) do you seek married men?

 

i agree its thier problem to an extent to the guilt stuff but to shoulder nothing?

 

you are you i get that i am just interested

 

nobby x

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie,

 

may I ask why ( as you imply) do you seek married men?

 

i agree its thier problem to an extent to the guilt stuff but to shoulder nothing?

 

you are you i get that i am just interested

 

nobby x

 

I've answered this question many many times.. but here it is again..

I don't 'seek' married men per se.. but I do prefer them.. because it works for me.. I don't want commitment.. I'm not saying that it will always be like that.. but for now.. this is a perfect lifestyle for me.

 

I want to live alone.. I love my space.. I'm used to my house being spotless... I don't have to compromise about anything.. I don't have anyone to answer to... this is perfect for me..

 

I have a few single lovers... too.... but most are married..

 

I am not into these As to steal those men away from their families.. I love sex... and I have to admit that sex with those MMs are better, so far, than sex with single guys.. (maybe with a few exceptions).. but in general, they are the best lovers.. It's probably the 'excitement', the secrecy... not sure.. but it's great..

[nobmagnet]

lizzzie,

 

wow.......bloody speachless at your honesty:eek:

 

 

yep im speachless sorry. i recon i need to sleep on this, i really do admire your frankness.

 

blimy!

 

hee hee

 

Nobby xx

[hopesndreams]

Takes all kinds to make a world. Doesn't mean we have to care about those those that go to great lengths to do the worst than mankind can do. Pity? Forgiveness? Naw, their choice to be rotten to the core. The innocents pay the price for their wickedness.

[Fallen Angel]

Can you ever seriously expect somebody capable of two timing/having an affaire to be faithful to you?

 

Do you beleive you can trust a person that has done it before?

 

Yes. I expect my sweetheart to be "faithful" to me, meaning he is to have no other OW.

 

Prior to our relationship he was serial, carrying on consecutive and sometimes concurrent physical affairs. He knows that I refuse to be involved with him if he ever steps out of the boundaries that we have mutually agreed to in our relationship, therefore he does not step outside of those bounds.

 

He also knows that when/if our relationship moves to something even more exclusive than it already is, meaning he divorces and we are totally exclusive, that I will not tolerate infedelity. *shrug* I am by nature a faithful person, I expect the same from my partner. He knows this, and to my knowledge has never dishonored/disrespected me and our relationship.

[Lizzie60]

lizzzie,

 

wow.......bloody speachless at your honesty:eek:

 

 

yep im speachless sorry. i recon i need to sleep on this, i really do admire your frankness.

 

blimy!

 

hee hee

 

Nobby xx

 

Thanks... I love my 'cereal' cheaters..

[nobmagnet]

Yes. I expect my sweetheart to be "faithful" to me, meaning he is to have no other OW.

 

Prior to our relationship he was serial, carrying on consecutive and sometimes concurrent physical affairs. He knows that I refuse to be involved with him if he ever steps out of the boundaries that we have mutually agreed to in our relationship, therefore he does not step outside of those bounds.

 

He also knows that when/if our relationship moves to something even more exclusive than it already is, meaning he divorces and we are totally exclusive, that I will not tolerate infedelity. *shrug* I am by nature a faithful person, I expect the same from my partner. He knows this, and to my knowledge has never dishonored/disrespected me and our relationship.

 

you are condoning his behaviour and expecting him to be faithful to you??? Double standards surely. What makes you so special that he will change his spots?

 

I admire your blind faith in your allurement but i wouldnt be able to trust him as far as I could throw him!!:eek:

 

Nobbyxx

[Joobi]

When I got involved with my xMM he and his wife had been living apart and in different countries for about 2.5 years. She had come to visit with the children (and allegedly to stay in the country) on a couple of occasions but had always returned 'home' after a couple of weeks. He had also gone back a few times (mostly at holidays etc).

 

She had a boyfriend (in her home country). It is almost certain that their youngest child is biologically his (this situation is a bit complex so I won't go into it here).

 

I was troubled by him not seeing much of his children, but didn't think that there was much that I could do about it except encourage him to visit them and call them regularly.

 

I guess I thought, given their circumstances and what he said to me, that their relationship was completely over. Instead, with hindsight (20/20 as always), it looks like they were taking some kind of 'break'.

 

I admit I found it difficult when she came back to this country and decided she wanted him back. I was honest with him about what I could offer and gave him a choice. I encouraged him to try to work it out with her but I was also incredibly hurt and confused and wanted to be with him myself.

 

As we all had to work together afterwards, it was an incredibly hurtful and destructive situation for everyone.

[Fallen Angel]

you are condoning his behaviour and expecting him to be faithful to you??? Double standards surely. What makes you so special that he will change his spots?

 

I admire your blind faith in your allurement but i wouldnt be able to trust him as far as I could throw him!!:eek:

 

Nobbyxx

 

Ah, but you misunderstand. I do not, as you say, "condone his behaviour."

 

He was a serial cheater because he could not find the kind of connection he needed with his wife. He was always feeling as though he was missing something, and he sought to fill the void he felt by having relationships with other women.

 

Then we met, and our relationship filled the void he had been seeking to fill. None of the other women he had NSA affairs with were able to meet the need he had for true intimacy. Once he had that with me, he no longer needed to find it elsewhere.

 

You may consider it a double standard, and I suppose it could easily be viewed as such. However, he knows that had I known he was married, I would have never allowed myself to start a relationship with him in the first place, as fidelity and an expectation of fidelity from my partner is part of my internal make-up. I know that most people can not understand, but fidelity is part of his internal make-up, too. He is not a "natural born cheater". he has been in affairs because he and his wife are not emtionally or sexually compatible, but yet his sense of "obligation to family" is such that he feels he has no right to walk away from the marriage until his obligations ae complete.

 

I believe that if he had been able to find the same connection he has found with me, with his wife, he would have never strayed from his maritial vows.

 

For some reason many women believe that men think only with their penises when they are having affairs, and while that may be true of some, it is certainly not true of all. As proven by the men who post here on this board, many men are seeking a true connection/love/intimacy that will leave them feeling whole and content. When they find it, they do not have thoughts of straying.

 

I do not understand how people can not understand that just because they did not find it with their wife and sought it elsewhere, does not mean that when they do find it they will continue to stray. *shrug*

 

My sweetheart has been, as they say here on LS, "totally transparent" with me in an effort to prove to me that he no longer feels the need for any other OW. He also knows that if he ever has the desire to be with someone else, all he has to do is let me know, as I hold no claim to him. I do not keep him bound to me by law, only by love. if he does not love me, he is free to move on to someone else who he can find love with. I love him enough to let him go if that is what he chooses. I think it is precisly that which allows him the freedom to choose to be with me or not, that also keeps him faithful to me.

 

We are together because we want to be, not because we have to be, or because it is expected of us. He wants to be with me, and says that in me he has finally found all that he was looking for, so he no longer seeks it elsewhere as he has it right here, in me.

[nobmagnet]

Thanks for the reply fallen angel,

 

 

You know best because you are "with" him. But I am finding very hard to stomach the whole " he isnt a natural born cheater" Either he is a changed man.............still with his wife but she doesnt understand me. Or you have been spun the biggest load of b*ll**** i have ever heard!!

 

 

i get more of what Lizzie has said than you have. She understands where these men are comming from and expects little in return but a good sh*g every now and again.

 

IMO and it is just mine........your ridding for a fall from a Lowly Worm. I hope you are correct and he has found his eutopia in you but why hasnt he left her yet?? If its so perfect.

 

Not meaning to offend. honestly. You have all been kind and honest and I really appreciate that.

 

Nobby xx

[Fallen Angel]

Thanks for the reply fallen angel,

 

 

You know best because you are "with" him. But I am finding very hard to stomach the whole " he isnt a natural born cheater" Either he is a changed man.............still with his wife but she doesnt understand me. Or you have been spun the biggest load of b*ll**** i have ever heard!!

 

 

i get more of what Lizzie has said than you have. She understands where these men are comming from and expects little in return but a good sh*g every now and again.

 

IMO and it is just mine........your ridding for a fall from a Lowly Worm. I hope you are correct and he has found his eutopia in you but why hasnt he left her yet?? If its so perfect.

 

Not meaning to offend. honestly. You have all been kind and honest and I really appreciate that.

 

Nobby xx

 

Okay, well I just got done talking to him, and I ASKED HIM exactly what he would say in response to this question.. his answer was.. "I will not cheat on you because I love you with all my heart and I am not willing to jeopardize that for anyone. Period. I love you, that is the answer as to why i will not cheat. Often women try to over think the situation, and men are pretty cut and dried. There is no other answer, there is no hidden thought behind it. I love you and will not lose you, if it is in my power not to lose you. That is the only answer I can give."

[Got it]

I just asked my sMM for his thoughts on this as well. He agreed with Fallen Angel's MM but also said that we both cheated and we need to look at our individual situations and look at how we got here and why. That he likes our relationship, likes what we have and has a better understanding how things can get to this point and our commitment to communication. And that we also know how important sex is our relationship (there was disconnect in our prior relationships) and that a very frank conversation would happen if one of us decides to not want sex any longer. But how iimportant communication of our needs is and our commitment to ourselves and our own needs. Being frank and upfront with our needs will help the domino effect to a larger disconnect.

 

The affair has greatly humbled the both of us.

[wheelwright]

hello all,

 

i really shouldnt be here because i am the wife of a cheater.

 

However......can i ask a question?

 

How do you feel about the wife husband that you and they are deciving? Do you think at all? do you feel smug/embarrassed/guilt ect?

 

I am interested because i am lost.

 

If they have children do you feel anything for the chaos that will be created and if so how can you both justify it? Is it ever discussed?

 

every situation is different. i understand that. Its just something i just dont understand. I would like to have a greater understanding before i have to meet OW. I really dont want to hate her too much. My relationship with my ex wasnt good before her.

 

ta Nobby

 

I didn't understand the power of what we were involved in for their kids. In fact, I was very in love and saw us in a happy blended family someday, when his kids were grown up.

 

I never saw any devastation for his kids - they already saw him as lonely in the M, and I thought would be overjoyed to see their father happy.

 

However naive, that's honestly how I saw it.

 

And I really did not think his W would give a damn. She didn't love him.

 

I overlooked the fact that she loved being a whole family - well, she had led me to believe that she considered that unimportant compared with love.

[Getting_stronger]

Hi Nobby

 

You have asked some great questions and they have made me think a lot. I am married and having an affair- with a married man. I have thought a lot about my husband, his wife, my children, his children. Its been terrible.

 

Like many of the posters have told you- as an AP, you certainly get a lot of misinformation. She doesnt love him, never said I love you, moved into his house without being asked, fell pregnant deliberately, is verbally abusive, they dont have sex.... blah blah blah. Surely a smart, confident man wouldnt fall into this many holes? But I have also coloured my life Im sure to justify my actions- its human nature. We all do it- even the BS will at some level.

 

But that doesnt change the fact that he betrayed his wife, I betrayed my husband, we both betrayed our children. Is it real love? Who knows. But if it is, we should both leave our spouses, have time alone, and then start dating like real people- and then decide. And then add all the stress, tears and consequences of all this betrayal.

 

So Nobby to answer your questions, I dont know if anyone really does think a lot beyond ourselves. Does your husband think of the hurt he has caused? Have you thought about how your marriage was working or not and what lessons you can learn from it?

 

Thats all we have I think- lessons and growth. Personal, social, familial and with our partners. Have I grown from this- definately, and for that I am grateful.

[nobmagnet]

wow what a thoughtful responce thank you!

 

Well as far as Lowly worm goes he has no guilt. He re wrote the marital history and blamed me for it:confused: He hadnt the backbone to leave just treated me like sh*t for 4 years and made sure i found his e.mails to her so I booted him. He is however a narsassist and i would expect no less from him. And to be honest with all the great responces to this thread i actually feel sorry for her (OW) because i would bet my last penny he will do it to her too.He did it to his first wife. He did it to me. He is not going to change. I have changed for the better I have learnt I am much better off without him and my kids are coping really well infact my son is blossoming due to the lack of put downs in the house.

 

But He is He and we cant all be involved with a narsassit. (thank god)

 

The pain it causes children is massive. I am a good mum and will never ever bad mouth him and do my best to keep relations civil. But I will say this...........for all you there that MM/MW leave for you. Dont let them not contact their kids. Lowly worm has been in europe for nearly a month with OW..........did he call the kids once.......no. Did he return the call of his dd (age6) no. He waited till he arrived back in the UK alone and then remembered he had kids and that is just not right.

 

sorry little rant at the end:)

 

nobby xx

[Fallen Angel]

wow what a thoughtful responce thank you!

 

Well as far as Lowly worm goes he has no guilt. He re wrote the marital history and blamed me for it:confused: He hadnt the backbone to leave just treated me like sh*t for 4 years and made sure i found his e.mails to her so I booted him. He is however a narsassist and i would expect no less from him. And to be honest with all the great responces to this thread i actually feel sorry for her (OW) because i would bet my last penny he will do it to her too.He did it to his first wife. He did it to me. He is not going to change. I have changed for the better I have learnt I am much better off without him and my kids are coping really well infact my son is blossoming due to the lack of put downs in the house.

 

But He is He and we cant all be involved with a narsassit. (thank god)

 

The pain it causes children is massive. I am a good mum and will never ever bad mouth him and do my best to keep relations civil. But I will say this...........for all you there that MM/MW leave for you. Dont let them not contact their kids. Lowly worm has been in europe for nearly a month with OW..........did he call the kids once.......no. Did he return the call of his dd (age6) no. He waited till he arrived back in the UK alone and then remembered he had kids and that is just not right.

 

sorry little rant at the end:)

 

nobby xx

 

I agree without doubt that that kind of behaviour is intolerable. I am not one of those women who would ever expect a man that i am with to ignore his children for me. In fact, I was the one who persued a relationship with my now exhusbands children, since he seemed to make no effort whatsoever in maintaining a relationship with them. I contacted his exwife, told her that despite any anger she may hold against me (they were divorced but she was trying to reconcile when he met me; something I knew nothing about until after he and I were married.) that our children deserved to know each other as they were siblings and that the children they had together deserved to know their father for what he is, even if he is not a good father, as by just having no contact with him, they would grow up resenting their mother for it, even though it was not her fault.

 

She and I agreed to meet for coffee, and eventually, she and I became the best of friends. (She was the one holding my hand when I gave birth to my twins and she was the one who held me up so I could walk during my daughters funeral.)

 

I made sure that every birthday, Christmas, Easter, etc was acknowledged by myself and my children for her kids. (they knew their father forgot, but I made sure to never forget.) I named one of my twins after her oldest, and my twins shared their birthday with her oldest, who I always refered to as "my chosen child", as she was not biologically my now exhusbands child, but was loved by me as if she were my own.

 

I am sorry that your, and your children's, experiences with the new woman in your ex's life have been so poor. I only hope that one day your ex-husband (soon to be?) will realize that he is losing out on precious moments with his children. But I do not put all the blame on the new woman in his life, it is his choice to make, she can not make it for him.

[nobmagnet]

well bugger me backwards (english phrase sorry!)

 

flippin heck! i understand that Lowly worm will indeed walk away from his kids. didnt want to really beleive it but yes he will.

 

This has nothing to do with a OW/OM. its him.

 

do you know what really sucks??

 

 

he was/is a really horrible dad. since he left he let his mother sever my dd hair and i mean hack because she(MIL) believed i never brushed it!!!!!!!!!!! WTF?? and then told my dd she was FAT.

 

 

is he a goood dad? should i not wish he dissapeared? but my babies love him. and so they should but........god they have so much pain to come because he will constantly let them down and its me that has to pick them up when he does already. it flippin sucks

 

 

sorry yet another rant!

 

nobby xx

[Fallen Angel]

well bugger me backwards (english phrase sorry!)

 

flippin heck! i understand that Lowly worm will indeed walk away from his kids. didnt want to really beleive it but yes he will.

 

This has nothing to do with a OW/OM. its him.

 

do you know what really sucks??

 

 

he was/is a really horrible dad. since he left he let his mother sever my dd hair and i mean hack because she(MIL) believed i never brushed it!!!!!!!!!!! WTF?? and then told my dd she was FAT.

 

 

is he a goood dad? should i not wish he dissapeared? but my babies love him. and so they should but........god they have so much pain to come because he will constantly let them down and its me that has to pick them up when he does already. it flippin sucks

 

 

sorry yet another rant!

 

nobby xx

 

I understand this sentiment completely...

 

I stayed in a horrible marriage because I thought any father was better than no father for my kids. OM MY GOD, how wrong I was!!!!

 

My son was learning from him how to be abusive, my daughters were learning from him that women should accept abuse. (I take part of the blame for that as well, as I should have stabbed him in his sleep the first time he beat me in front of our kids!! )

 

He never attended their school events, he never played ball with his son, he never cuddled his daughters. He never asked how their day was, he never helped them with their homework. He was just a man who lived in the house, and made us all miserable.

 

My Sweetheart has been more of a "father figure" to my children in the two years they have known him than their own biological father ever was.

 

He plays with my kids (he will even play Hi-Ho-Cherrio if the little one wants to ), he asks about their day, offers advice when they have problems, offers hugs when they are sad, he pays for field-trips (their own father never did, he would just keep them home from school that day rather than pay for them to go ), he cuts my son's hair, he helps with homework (even when I am too tired and fall asleep), he tucks them in at night when he is with us, and he kisses them on their way out the door for school, or on his way out for work. He does all the things for my kids that a father should do, things their own father never did. Above all he loves them, something I am not sure that my exhusband was capable of.

 

The point is, if he chooses to opt out of their life, that is not always a horrible thing. My kids are better off without his hurtful behaviour. They know that I made every effort to maintain contact between their father and them when we moved. I was allowing them to call twice a week on a set schedule, and they could call any other time they wanted to as well. Their father moved and changed his number and has made no attempt to contact them in almost a year now. Since we left he has not sent so much as a birthday or Christmas card. Even my six year old is old enough to understand that it is his choice. Is she hurt? Of course. But she knows that it is not because she is unworthy of her father, but that her father is unworthy of her. (Something My Sweetheart spoke with my girls about when they asked him one day why they were good enough for him, but not good enough for their dad. )

 

They will grow up loved and healthy and happy, and some day he will realize that he lost a whole lifetime with them. When he wises up most likely it will be too late, as my son (aged 16) has already decided that the only time he ever wants to see his father again is when he is grown, a Marine and prospering.. something his own father told him he was incapable of doing. So that he can look his father in the face when he tells him how wrong he was about him.

[White Flower]

Ah, but you misunderstand. I do not, as you say, "condone his behaviour."

 

He was a serial cheater because he could not find the kind of connection he needed with his wife. He was always feeling as though he was missing something, and he sought to fill the void he felt by having relationships with other women.

 

Then we met, and our relationship filled the void he had been seeking to fill. None of the other women he had NSA affairs with were able to meet the need he had for true intimacy. Once he had that with me, he no longer needed to find it elsewhere.

 

You may consider it a double standard, and I suppose it could easily be viewed as such. However, he knows that had I known he was married, I would have never allowed myself to start a relationship with him in the first place, as fidelity and an expectation of fidelity from my partner is part of my internal make-up. I know that most people can not understand, but fidelity is part of his internal make-up, too. He is not a "natural born cheater". he has been in affairs because he and his wife are not emtionally or sexually compatible, but yet his sense of "obligation to family" is such that he feels he has no right to walk away from the marriage until his obligations ae complete.

 

I believe that if he had been able to find the same connection he has found with me, with his wife, he would have never strayed from his maritial vows.

 

For some reason many women believe that men think only with their penises when they are having affairs, and while that may be true of some, it is certainly not true of all. As proven by the men who post here on this board, many men are seeking a true connection/love/intimacy that will leave them feeling whole and content. When they find it, they do not have thoughts of straying.

 

I do not understand how people can not understand that just because they did not find it with their wife and sought it elsewhere, does not mean that when they do find it they will continue to stray. *shrug*

 

My sweetheart has been, as they say here on LS, "totally transparent" with me in an effort to prove to me that he no longer feels the need for any other OW. He also knows that if he ever has the desire to be with someone else, all he has to do is let me know, as I hold no claim to him. I do not keep him bound to me by law, only by love. if he does not love me, he is free to move on to someone else who he can find love with. I love him enough to let him go if that is what he chooses. I think it is precisly that which allows him the freedom to choose to be with me or not, that also keeps him faithful to me.

 

We are together because we want to be, not because we have to be, or because it is expected of us. He wants to be with me, and says that in me he has finally found all that he was looking for, so he no longer seeks it elsewhere as he has it right here, in me.

You could have told my story FA. True intimacy is all any man needs to stay in love with a woman and be LOYAL to her. Loyal meaning faithful (I hear there is a difference but that is a whole nother Oprah:p).

Thanks for the reply fallen angel,

 

 

You know best because you are "with" him. But I am finding very hard to stomach the whole " he isnt a natural born cheater" Either he is a changed man.............still with his wife but she doesnt understand me. Or you have been spun the biggest load of b*ll**** i have ever heard!!

 

 

i get more of what Lizzie has said than you have. She understands where these men are comming from and expects little in return but a good sh*g every now and again.

 

IMO and it is just mine........your ridding for a fall from a Lowly Worm. I hope you are correct and he has found his eutopia in you but why hasnt he left her yet?? If its so perfect.

 

Not meaning to offend. honestly. You have all been kind and honest and I really appreciate that.

 

Nobby xx

Lizzie will be the first to admit that she is not looking for any kind of spiritual connection with a man. She adores sex and seeks only that in men she adores but there is no commitment neccessary. If one leaves she will gladly replace them. FA is talking about what keeps a man loyal which is more than sex; it is true intimacy.

 

If only women could understand this they wouldn't hold a gun to their H's head and say 'You must love me' because you cannot force nor promise love. Either they have intimacy or they don't and if they can get it, well good. But if they can't, throw in the towel because if you make him stay it won't be for love if intimacy is missing. And I'm not talking about the sexual kind.