Unapologetic Married Man

[pureinheart]

But he already said he knows he's potentially causing a lot of hurt. Unless he doesn't mind hurting people he supposedly cares about, how can you be unapologetic? I just don't get it. I understand the concept of not being controlled by anyone else, but we SHOULD control ourselves based on OUR standards of integrity, and since he knows the hurt being caused... Or does he just not CARE that he is causing the hurt, thus no standards of integrity? IMO, of course, on the no standards thing.

 

I get what you are saying, I was mainly applying unapologetic to my situation...I really can't with his, because I don't really know him....but I trust that Jennie does and if he were a "jerk" I really don't believe she would give him the time of day.

 

Having seen a lot of Men and Women in bad M's, I have to wonder if he is not one of them. Sometimes they just get stuck.

 

Now applying unapologetic to Jennies MM (all speculation), I would say that he is torn and might be walking in condemnation...just focusing on MM and being unapologetic could give him the space he needs to detach from negative influence so that he can focus on the positives of both R's and then make a decision. I think this is a very positive thing for him.

 

Also, in one of Jennies posts she states that basically she "rocked his world" (my words not hers), he is coming out of the "box" now...this is not an easy process...the same thing happened with exDM...he began to see that they way he was doing business was wrong and wanted change, but did not know how to get there and was quite afraid of change. This could be where JJ's MM is coming from.

 

Thanks for the discussion Donna, it has provoked a great deal of thought...and that can be hard for me at times;)

[donnamaybe]

I get what you are saying, I was mainly applying unapologetic to my situation...I really can't with his, because I don't really know him....but I trust that Jennie does and if he were a "jerk" I really don't believe she would give him the time of day.

 

No, I don't think she would be with someone she perceived as such. However, he COULD be just very good at convincing her otherwise.

 

Having seen a lot of Men and Women in bad M's, I have to wonder if he is not one of them. Sometimes they just get stuck.

 

And I can understand this, but his doesn't seem like a "bad" marriage; just a lackadaisical one. One he CAN do something about or leave. There is no reason to stay in a marriage you are really unhappy with.

[jennie-jennie]

Wow! He really does want it both ways, doesn't he!

 

Sorry Jennie but the more I hear, the more I think he is a cake eater (and I know you don't like that term but sorry, to me and many others that is exactly what he is)

 

A cake eater who only eats one of the cakes available to him? Or a man who can't make his mind up in which direction to go?

[anne1707]

A cake eater who only eats one of the cakes available to him? Or a man who can't make his mind up in which direction to go?

 

He is eating TWO cakes. After all where is he tonight? With his wife probably.

 

And yes, he can't/won't make up his mond.

[jennie-jennie]

That's easy to explain. If you're not wanted in that way, it will definitely dull your own wanting. Who wants to feel like they are getting mercy sex? That's why he's not getting intimate with her as much.

 

 

 

I think our eyesight starts to get worse as we age is for this very reason.

 

Maybe she just doesn't have that high a sex drive. Maybe she feels unattractive to him. He won't know unless they talk about it.

 

Good post, Donna. I agree.

[xxoo]

A cake eater who only eats one of the cakes available to him? Or a man who can't make his mind up in which direction to go?

 

Oh, he's eating both cakes. Even if he isn't having sex with her, he is still enjoying the benefits of the marriage cake + the jennie cake.

 

He chose a direction when he initially crossed the line. The fact that he isn't completely happy in the place he chose to be and may choose a new direction (just you or just her) doesn't mean he isn't already making a choice (both).

[jennie-jennie]

He is eating TWO cakes. After all where is he tonight? With his wife probably.

 

And yes, he can't/won't make up his mond.

 

No, not with his wife, at the office. He generally stays at his office until closer to midnight - the entire time with communication open to me through Skype and web cam. He is his own boss, so he can do pretty much what he wants to.

[jennie-jennie]

Oh, he's eating both cakes. Even if he isn't having sex with her, he is still enjoying the benefits of the marriage cake + the jennie cake.

 

He chose a direction when he initially crossed the line. The fact that he isn't completely happy in the place he chose to be and may choose a new direction (just you or just her) doesn't mean he isn't already making a choice (both).

 

There's truth in that.

[anne1707]

No, not with his wife, at the office. He generally stays at his office until closer to midnight - the entire time with communication open to me through Skype and web cam. He is his own boss, so he can do pretty much what he wants to.

 

Well that is obvious

[xxoo]

No, not with his wife, at the office. He generally stays at his office until closer to midnight - the entire time with communication open to me through Skype and web cam. He is his own boss, so he can do pretty much what he wants to.

 

When does he see his kids?

[Owl]

Oh, he's eating both cakes. Even if he isn't having sex with her, he is still enjoying the benefits of the marriage cake + the jennie cake.

 

He chose a direction when he initially crossed the line. The fact that he isn't completely happy in the place he chose to be and may choose a new direction (just you or just her) doesn't mean he isn't already making a choice (both).

 

Agreed.

 

Also (and you may have already answered this, so I apologize if I'm responding without all the information)...where did you get the information that he's not eating the cake at home? From him? Or verified by his wife or someone who's spoken with her and been told that he's not sleeping with her?

 

I've seen countless situations here over the years where the OW was told that he wasn't "with" her in that fashion, only to find out later that he always had been.

[jennie-jennie]

I get what you are saying, I was mainly applying unapologetic to my situation...I really can't with his, because I don't really know him....but I trust that Jennie does and if he were a "jerk" I really don't believe she would give him the time of day.

 

Having seen a lot of Men and Women in bad M's, I have to wonder if he is not one of them. Sometimes they just get stuck.

 

Now applying unapologetic to Jennies MM (all speculation), I would say that he is torn and might be walking in condemnation...just focusing on MM and being unapologetic could give him the space he needs to detach from negative influence so that he can focus on the positives of both R's and then make a decision. I think this is a very positive thing for him.

 

Also, in one of Jennies posts she states that basically she "rocked his world" (my words not hers), he is coming out of the "box" now...this is not an easy process...the same thing happened with exDM...he began to see that they way he was doing business was wrong and wanted change, but did not know how to get there and was quite afraid of change. This could be where JJ's MM is coming from.

 

Thanks for the discussion Donna, it has provoked a great deal of thought...and that can be hard for me at times;)

 

You really do have a way of understanding where I am coming from, Pure!

 

No, I don't think she would be with someone she perceived as such. However, he COULD be just very good at convincing her otherwise.

Nope, this is a good guy if ever I saw one. Probably the reason why he has a problem getting a divorce: good guys don't get divorced.

And I can understand this, but his doesn't seem like a "bad" marriage; just a lackadaisical one. One he CAN do something about or leave. There is no reason to stay in a marriage you are really unhappy with.

Correct observation.

[jennie-jennie]

When does he see his kids?

 

Mostly at the weekends.

[anne1707]

Mostly at the weekends.

 

But I thought his kids were a key reason for staying. If he was with you full time, he would still see them at weekends I guess - pretty much the same amount of time as he sees them now apparently. Makes me think something else makes him stay.

[joyz]

He generally stays at his office until closer to midnight - the entire time with communication open to me through Skype and web cam.

 

 

jennie, this is really sad. why is he holding his W hostage in a supposely loveless, sexless M? i know you love him but do you want him, her and you to live like this indefinitely?

[jennie-jennie]

Agreed.

 

Also (and you may have already answered this, so I apologize if I'm responding without all the information)...where did you get the information that he's not eating the cake at home? From him? Or verified by his wife or someone who's spoken with her and been told that he's not sleeping with her?

 

I've seen countless situations here over the years where the OW was told that he wasn't "with" her in that fashion, only to find out later that he always had been.

 

Since for 3 1/2 years he was telling me he was having sex with her, I see no reason why to suddenly start lying. I have even pushed him and suggested it must be very difficult not to reach out and have her, but he persists that he has no desire for her anymore.

 

He could be lying to me of course, but there are no indications of him being anything but truthful to me. He will never avoid harsh truths, he will never say something that is not true just because he knows it is what I want to hear. He says the fact that he is lying to his wife makes it even more necessary for him to have one place where he can be totally honest.

[anne1707]

He says the fact that he is lying to his wife makes it even more necessary for him to have one place where he can be totally honest.

 

I think I used a similar line to the ex-OM. Still with my H though.

 

Edit: and it was a lie

[jennie-jennie]

I think I used a similar line to the ex-OM. Still with my H though.

 

Edit: and it was a lie

 

Well, in that case I guess it is a good thing that I find that what I see of your mind is very different from his.

[jennie-jennie]

jennie, this is really sad. why is he holding his W hostage in a supposely loveless, sexless M? i know you love him but do you want him, her and you to live like this indefinitely?

 

No, hopefully something will give sooner or later.

[anne1707]

Well, in that case I guess it is a good thing that I find that what I see of your mind is very different from his.

 

And what do you see of my mind via an internet forum. Not much really. After all, I post what I want you to see just as your MM tells you what he wants you to hear.

 

By the way, I actually take your post as a compliment.

[xxoo]

Mostly at the weekends.

 

Because of the affair?

Is he unapologetic about that?

[PhoenixRise]

Mostly at the weekends.

 

Jennie

 

I realize that MM is the one who has worked outside the home and provided financially for the family, but is it really possible that he is so ignorant about what it takes to make the non-financial aspects of a large family work?

 

You say he wonders if the wife now does not find him attractive.

 

I think a large part of the problems is that she is tired as hell. She is practacally a single mom (hands on) to 6 underage children. While MM is with his children mostly on the weekends. If he is at work most nights til midnight talking to you then he is not helping out at home.

 

It is hard work to manage all the schoolwork, afterschool sports, other extra cirricular activites, appointments etc for 2 or 3 children but this wife is managing 6 mostly on her own. On top of this there is housework, laundry, meals to prepare etc.

 

It is pretty clear to me why she is not approacing him for sex.

 

You have said that he stays out of duty but It doesn't seem to me that he feels any particular duty to her or the kids beyond a financial one. Since he already doesn't spend any time with her and he only spends time with the kids on the weekend why can't he just move out and send them money regularly?

[jennie-jennie]

Because of the affair?

Is he unapologetic about that?

 

Jennie

 

I realize that MM is the one who has worked outside the home and provided financially for the family, but is it really possible that he is so ignorant about what it takes to make the non-financial aspects of a large family work?

 

You say he wonders if the wife now does not find him attractive.

 

I think a large part of the problems is that she is tired as hell. She is practacally a single mom (hands on) to 6 underage children. While MM is with his children mostly on the weekends. If he is at work most nights til midnight talking to you then he is not helping out at home.

 

It is hard work to manage all the schoolwork, afterschool sports, other extra cirricular activites, appointments etc for 2 or 3 children but this wife is managing 6 mostly on her own. On top of this there is housework, laundry, meals to prepare etc.

 

It is pretty clear to me why she is not approacing him for sex.

 

You have said that he stays out of duty but It doesn't seem to me that he feels any particular duty to her or the kids beyond a financial one. Since he already doesn't spend any time with her and he only spends time with the kids on the weekend why can't he just move out and send them money regularly?

 

I am not going to go into this too deeply, just want to respond that my MM is bordering on a workaholic, so the pattern of staying away at nights was already there as far as I know before the extramarital relationship.

 

Also, one kid is already off to college, yet another one by next year. I was a little unspecific about that in my last post. Still, there is a lot of truth in what you are saying, Phoenix, about the BS in a sense being more or less a single mom during the weeks.

 

So interestingly enough, I talked to my MM about his father. He suspects him of having an affair while my MM grew up and staying in the marriage because of obligation. This is the sad part in my opinion. These dads teach their sons to do the same thing. They think they stay for the family, but what happens is that they teach their kids to become WS, BS and OW.

[anne1707]

So interestingly enough, I talked to my MM about his father. He suspects him of having an affair while my MM grew up and staying in the marriage because of obligation. This is the sad part in my opinion. These dads teach their sons to do the same thing. They think they stay for the family, but what happens is that they teach their kids to become WS, BS and OW.

 

Does it not concern him that he is now teaching his children this same behaviour? Doesn't he want to break the cycle?

[jennie-jennie]

Does it not concern him that he is now teaching his children this same behaviour? Doesn't he want to break the cycle?

 

I am trying to encourage him to see this connection. One generation has to be the pioneers and break the cycle, but it is not easy. Doing the right thing, duty and obligation, are deeply engrained in him of what constitutes being a good man.

 

He is determined to resolve the situation within a year. I just don't believe in his capability of doing it.