Religion is the work of the devil

[sxyNYCcpl]

LOL, OpenBook, you remind me of my mother, who only days ago accused me of being a devil worshiper. No, not because my wife and I are swingers, she doesn't know that, rather because I think some tales of reincarnation and NDE's are compelling enough to possibly be true. According to her, they are tricks of demons!! She is not the only fundamentalist I know who says such things as well.

 

Of course, to them I argue that if the rules of this Spiritual game are such that demons are permitted to show us outright lies, and the price of believing those lies, of believing our own senses, of believing eyewitness testimony, even if it contradicts texts written thousands of years ago by unknown individuals is an eternity of torture, then frankly I would not want to associate with a God who makes rules like that. It's the human equivalent of allowing your child to play a life and death game with a fully informed adult who's allowed to cheat.

[Toki]

What I don't get is how some Catholics can openly defend the church despite the attempted cover up and dismissal of rampant pedophilia within the clergy. The church is attempting to brush this off likes it's no big deal, even they've been caught with their pants down (pun intended). I am so disgusted by the Vatican, that Im ashamed that ever at point I had called myself a catholic. That's not the work of the devil and his great war against god, it's pure and simple ego wank, that Christians actually believe they are better than non believers.

[Lovelybird]

I saw a movie Rome Libery, it painted Christians very bad, when they killed the female scientist, I felt like they were exactly like those mobs killed Jesus, they did that in the name of God ! People are crazy ! that is what I get from the movie.

 

Do I lose faith in God because some bad things christians did? Nope, these things only assured me that PEOPLE have something really evil in themselves, that is why we need God, of course, human beings have something beautiful in them too. but seems nobody can be exempted from some bad qualities.

 

And misunderstanding and misuse of scriptures really can damage people.

[OpenBook]

What I don't get is how some Catholics can openly defend the church despite the attempted cover up and dismissal of rampant pedophilia within the clergy. The church is attempting to brush this off likes it's no big deal, even they've been caught with their pants down (pun intended). I am so disgusted by the Vatican, that Im ashamed that ever at point I had called myself a catholic. That's not the work of the devil and his great war against god, it's pure and simple ego wank, that Christians actually believe they are better than non believers.

 

I disagree with you; I believe that is a perfect example of the work of the devil. It has caused people like yourself to turn away from the church. Not to mention the untold damage done to the children who were abused by twisted priests. As for those priests, well... thank goodness it's not my call, because they'd be thrown into the pit immediately, no questions asked.

[OpenBook]

LOL, OpenBook, you remind me of my mother, who only days ago accused me of being a devil worshiper. No, not because my wife and I are swingers, she doesn't know that, rather because I think some tales of reincarnation and NDE's are compelling enough to possibly be true. According to her, they are tricks of demons!! She is not the only fundamentalist I know who says such things as well.

 

I'm not sure what my post has to do with your mother accusing you of devil-worshiping and fundamentalism and swinging and reincarnation and NDE's (whatever THAT is)???

 

Of course, to them I argue that if the rules of this Spiritual game are such that demons are permitted to show us outright lies, and the price of believing those lies, of believing our own senses, of believing eyewitness testimony, even if it contradicts texts written thousands of years ago by unknown individuals is an eternity of torture, then frankly I would not want to associate with a God who makes rules like that. It's the human equivalent of allowing your child to play a life and death game with a fully informed adult who's allowed to cheat.

 

Look I don't pretend to know all the answers, or even half of them. And I'm completely bewildered by a lot of things I read in the Bible. (Snake-handling? Speaking in tongues? Women shouldn't teach in the church?) But I don't see it the way you see it. This isn't some capricious game that God has decided to play with us. Life is a gift, an incredible gift. And although there are entities here on earth that try to ruin it for us, I trust that God will not give me anything I can't handle. It's all about my own choices.

 

And so I choose to follow my religion and attend church to help keep me strong for when the tests do come. It's like a combination of taking refuge and going to practice (like sports or music) - you have to keep doing it on a regular basis in order to get really good at it.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I'm not sure what my post has to do with your mother accusing you of devil-worshiping and fundamentalism and swinging and reincarnation and NDE's (whatever THAT is)???

 

It's your blind fanaticism to a man-made religion. You don't question what you've been taught, for the price of asking questions is too high. NDE=Near Death Experience=humans who have been to the other side and came back. Their stories are inspiring and full of love and hope, not the fear and blind worship that human religions require.

 

This isn't some capricious game that God has decided to play with us. Life is a gift, an incredible gift. And although there are entities here on earth that try to ruin it for us, I trust that God will not give me anything I can't handle. It's all about my own choices.

 

If the fundamentalists amongst us are right, it most certainly is a game. Believe the right thing, and you are golden. But fail to do so, even if your failure is caused by logic or false, demon caused illusions and you're screwed for eternity.

 

Meh.

[grogster]

This just in from the AP:

 

"The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including "the good of the universal church," according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature. The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office."

 

Molesters in vestments allowed to defile children with impunity all for "the good of the universal church."

 

The link:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36325154/ns/us_news-faith/

Edited April 10, 2010 by grogster

[amerikajin]

I was driving up the road all day about 10 days ago and listening to NPR. They had some guy from one of the Catholic news organizations and they were interviewing him about the Pope and the implications of his suspected role in moving priests between dioceses. He actually argued a well-thought defense of the Pope in that Benedict had done much to change the status quo and prosecute violators once he actually had some standing to do so -- at least that's what this guy said.

 

Even so, at the end of the day, I am left scratching my head and wondering why we are even debating whether to remove the Pope or any Catholic official implicated in this scandal from their offices. That seems to be the least we should do. Most people who are involved in the cover up of a crime are charged as accomplices to said crimes -- nothing less than felony offenses in a lot of cases.

 

If there is smoking gun evidence that the Pope knew about molestations and did nothing to turn offenders over to the authorities, then he ought to resign in disgrace. I don't care if the Catholic Church's version of progress is at a different standard. That is no excuse. The Catholic Church -- indeed, no church, no religion, no institution -- should be above the law.

[amerikajin]

I saw a movie Rome Libery, it painted Christians very bad, when they killed the female scientist, I felt like they were exactly like those mobs killed Jesus, they did that in the name of God ! People are crazy ! that is what I get from the movie.

 

Do I lose faith in God because some bad things christians did? Nope, these things only assured me that PEOPLE have something really evil in themselves, that is why we need God, of course, human beings have something beautiful in them too. but seems nobody can be exempted from some bad qualities.

 

And misunderstanding and misuse of scriptures really can damage people.

 

I want to be clear: I come pretty close to hating ALL religious fundamentalists. The Taliban. The Shah of Iran. The fundamentalist Sikhs. Their fundamentalist Hindu counterparts. The extreme Zionists. And you'd better believe I have a hard-on in my heart for the raging kook Christians who are trying to dominate American and global politics.

 

People here are spending all of their time focusing on radical Islam -- that is just the tip of the iceberg. I think they are nothing compared to some of the Christian radicals who would love nothing more than to gain control of America's nuclear stockpiles. You could make the argument that some had infiltrated the last administration. Fortunately, I do give the guy at the top (G.W. Bush) enough credit for putting some checks on their influence, but the thought of a Palin presidency terrifies me.

[Engadget]

I want to be clear: I come pretty close to hating ALL religious fundamentalists. The Taliban. The Shah of Iran. The fundamentalist Sikhs. Their fundamentalist Hindu counterparts. The extreme Zionists. And you'd better believe I have a hard-on in my heart for the raging kook Christians who are trying to dominate American and global politics.

 

People here are spending all of their time focusing on radical Islam -- that is just the tip of the iceberg. I think they are nothing compared to some of the Christian radicals who would love nothing more than to gain control of America's nuclear stockpiles. You could make the argument that some had infiltrated the last administration. Fortunately, I do give the guy at the top (G.W. Bush) enough credit for putting some checks on their influence, but the thought of a Palin presidency terrifies me.

 

You're the first person I've heard of that thinks Bush kept them in line. He was made into a "Southern Born-Again Christian" to manipulate them and gather their votes. The guy was more a New Englander than a Texas boy.

 

Him and his administration basically riled them up, and the Republican party is still doing it. In fact going into the past, the South always voted Democrat until LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act into law, then they went Republican. Why? Racism clearly.

[Clep]

It's your blind fanaticism to a man-made religion. You don't question what you've been taught, for the price of asking questions is too high. NDE=Near Death Experience=humans who have been to the other side and came back. Their stories are inspiring and full of love and hope, not the fear and blind worship that human religions require.

 

Meh.

 

I have a Seventh Day Adventist mother and sister that have taken religion and twisted it to their every whim. Every time they abuse, manipulate, steal, lie and whatever else they feel like doing for the moment....it is all in the name of God.

 

They feel they are better than others, preach, and turn everyone's stomach around them with their fanatical preaching.

 

It is the reason I have never believed in God, religion or anyone that spouts that crap.

 

It took me until I was 40 years old and being away from my family for ten years to realize how profoundly I allowed their words and beliefs to control my own beliefs.

 

After questioning all sorts of things about "religion" and god I finally came to the conclusion it was right for me. I look at my life now compared to what it was as a non believer and realize it could have been this good the whole time. I realized not everyone was like my family. The church I go to is wonderful, people helping others, living wonderful purposeful lives. If God turns out to be a hoax at least I have had the joy of living such a great life.

 

Sounds like your mom might have had a strong effect on your beliefs from another post I have read. I will pray for you....and that is not meant in a condescending way.

[amerikajin]

I have a Seventh Day Adventist mother and sister that have taken religion and twisted it to their every whim. Every time they abuse, manipulate, steal, lie and whatever else they feel like doing for the moment....it is all in the name of God.

 

They feel they are better than others, preach, and turn everyone's stomach around them with their fanatical preaching.

 

It is the reason I have never believed in God, religion or anyone that spouts that crap.

 

It took me until I was 40 years old and being away from my family for ten years to realize how profoundly I allowed their words and beliefs to control my own beliefs.

 

After questioning all sorts of things about "religion" and god I finally came to the conclusion it was right for me. I look at my life now compared to what it was as a non believer and realize it could have been this good the whole time. I realized not everyone was like my family. The church I go to is wonderful, people helping others, living wonderful purposeful lives. If God turns out to be a hoax at least I have had the joy of living such a great life.

 

Sounds like your mom might have had a strong effect on your beliefs from another post I have read. I will pray for you....and that is not meant in a condescending way.

 

No, I grew up in a family that wasn't religious by any means. I actually wanted to go to church when I was young, because I felt that it was the only way I could go to heaven and save my soul. I guess I must have picked it up from all of my friends' families who were in churches of various kinds.

 

As I've gotten older, I've come to see religion as both a guiding and yet divisive force. Religious organizations can provide stability and do great things -- would never say otherwise. But I don't see why people can't just do that by being spiritual or ethical without an organized religion. When people organize a religion, it almost inevitably becomes subject to social influence and it becomes dogmatic.

 

I am not an atheist. I believe in God, but I believe that God isn't quite as the one described in the Bible. People long ago made up beliefs about God and afterlife because they are uncomfortable with the idea that when you die you start to smell and rot like bad cheese. People want to believe that there's something else beyond, and that we will live on as we are doing now. I think that's why they invented the human-centered God. I think it's ridiculous, though.

Edited May 11, 2010 by amerikajin

[sumdude]

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently. I really like his ideas. The Power of Myth... the human race has always had a mythology. Ancient symbols of life, the cycle of life and somewhere a one-ness. Of course different peoples in different areas came up with their own mythologies. Unfortunately too many people want to take the myth as fact and that's where you lose the symbolism and go into dogma. You go into dogma and you start to believe that you are under the protection of your God, a member of the chosen etc etc and those who don't believe are 'the enemy'. So it becomes about conquest and it appears that the Judeo-Christian-Muslim faiths tend to be the most aggressive in recent history.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I will pray for you....and that is not meant in a condescending way.

 

I don't take it that way. I am not an atheist, I believe there is an afterlife, that there is a supreme being of some kind (though the true nature of 'God' is probably something we are incapable of understanding even if we had it explained to us by someone in the know), but I believe that religion is a creation of man, and as such has not more insight as to the truth of the spiritual than does, say, a Steven King novel.

 

As to my mothers considering NDE's to be tricks of demons, I find the idea preposterous. And if it IS true, frankly then the deck is stacked so far against us that it is unreasonable, and not something that a truly loving God would allow. Would YOU let your children play a game against a fully informed adult who was allowed (indeed encouraged) to cheat if losing said game meant death? Do you think a loving supreme being would??

[Clep]

I don't take it that way. I am not an atheist, I believe there is an afterlife, that there is a supreme being of some kind (though the true nature of 'God' is probably something we are incapable of understanding even if we had it explained to us by someone in the know), but I believe that religion is a creation of man, and as such has not more insight as to the truth of the spiritual than does, say, a Steven King novel.

 

As to my mothers considering NDE's to be tricks of demons, I find the idea preposterous. And if it IS true, frankly then the deck is stacked so far against us that it is unreasonable, and not something that a truly loving God would allow. Would YOU let your children play a game against a fully informed adult who was allowed (indeed encouraged) to cheat if losing said game meant death? Do you think a loving supreme being would??

 

I would not know if NDE'S are true at all, and neither does anyone unless they claim to have had one. I do not know if God allows such a thing or not. As far as God being a loving God I believe that is true. I also believe that if we are children of God we have God to answer to. I know with my own children love means many different things. One of those things are boundaries and natural consequences which are clearly stated in the bible you don't believe in. I guess it is easier though to spout only love and not consequences because then accountability in our lives is not a requirement, meaning a life with little boundaries.

[Nikki Sahagin]

Organised religion is complete BS. It is basically a cult that draws a load of mentalists. I am open-minded to everything; Gods of all religions, ghosts, UFO's, science. I think only arrogant, power-hungry or deeply fearful/insecure people hide behind religion and bully everyone else to follow it.

 

The God I believe in is not male or female - it is a force. It doesn't care if people are gay or straight. It forgives peoples mistakes so long as their hearts are pure. It doesn't care if you don't dedicate every second of your life to praising it. It wants people to be happy and love. That is all. I think if there is a God, human beings have warped what God means and only worship 'it' because they are afraid. Two of my friends have recently become Christian and are so brainwashed its unbelievable...i've been told so many times 'i'll pray for you because if you don't give your life over to God, you'll burn in hell.'

 

I believe my God loves me for being a good and loving person. If it doesn't want someone like me in heaven, then thats not a God i'd choose to follow.