I Want to Save my Marriage- She Wants Separation

[Eurydice]

The fact that the two of you are still having intimate relations, still touching as you pass each other, her falling asleep on your shoulder? Those are all really good strong signs that you've still got a chance? What all that means is that she's ready to "walk" unless you can and will permanently change to become the person that she needs you to be ~ in order to be with you?

 

In fact as a woman she's practically screaming at you, begging you, pleading with you to make the changes that you need to make to become the person that she fell in love with. That she can love and be in love with you.

 

There's something that your doing? Or not doing that's making her feel the way she is.

 

Gaming? (Becoming obsessive about playing video games?) Work? Hanging out with your friends? Devoting too much time to a hobby? Being too obsessive about a given particular subject?

 

The point is that anytime you make someone or something more important than your wife or SO? She's going to go and find her someone that's going to make her their No. # 1 priority in life.

 

This just about made me cry. I don't know that I ever realized some of these things were true about my spouse, but please hear from the other side that you may be overlooking something she badly needs. Are you blocking her out for something else? Is there something which has just swallowed you up from her?

 

If you address this you may certainly be able to salvage your marriage. It is hard, I know. I've had this cycle on me in the past, when we both withdrew into various things, but if she's still reaching for you, give it a chance.

[scatterd]

the 180 would end it for me as a woman sometime we need to know were loved and need and doing that under wrong crcomstance can ruin a marriage permentally i would think that over not all woman are push overs no offence meant but that seems crule.Depends on reasons

Edited April 6, 2010 by scatterd

[2sunny]

 

To my cynical (and still divorcing, as a disclaimer) mind, she used the increased sex recently to cover up something else. Classic military diversion maneuver. Why else would she be all intimate, touchy and sexed and then do the 'I want to separate' bomb with no visible signs of clear and present discord? Yep, clever bunch they are.

 

Absolutely do work on yourself for you. MC can help with that. Accept that you have no control over her, rather only what you choose as a healthy path for yourself. When someone says "I want to leave", accept it. Open the door and say 'I understand. We'll work out a custody arrangement that is healthy for the kids. We can do this'

 

BTW, you'll choose another method. They always do

 

my gut says keep digging. my gut says she is connected to her old flame on FB.

 

IF a gal wants to work it out - she doesn't pull the D card. she's up to something and you need to find out what that is.

 

put a keylogger on her computer.

 

as a side note - she may get more amorous while just imagining that she's with him - but still with you. this is called an imagination. she'll transfer her horns to you since she is horny about him but since you are there - hey, why not?

 

it happens - more than you want to know. she may be physically with you - but mentally and emotionally she's with someone else.

 

find out what is really going on. i hope i'm wrong - but my gut is rarely off. was she more distant after reconnecting to her old flame? is this when the change started... and how much does she stay distracted on the computer?

[martyjones47]

the 180 would end it for me as a woman sometime we need to know were loved and need and doing that under wrong crcomstance can ruin a marriage permentally i would think that over not all woman are push overs no offence meant but that seems crule.Depends on reasons

 

Yeah. There are some good ideas in there, but considering what caused this situation, I am going to handle things in a different way. I mean, I'll do things to improve myself and help myself get through this, no matter the outcome.

[martyjones47]

my gut says keep digging. my gut says she is connected to her old flame on FB.

 

IF a gal wants to work it out - she doesn't pull the D card. she's up to something and you need to find out what that is.

 

put a keylogger on her computer.

 

as a side note - she may get more amorous while just imagining that she's with him - but still with you. this is called an imagination. she'll transfer her horns to you since she is horny about him but since you are there - hey, why not?

 

it happens - more than you want to know. she may be physically with you - but mentally and emotionally she's with someone else.

 

find out what is really going on. i hope i'm wrong - but my gut is rarely off. was she more distant after reconnecting to her old flame? is this when the change started... and how much does she stay distracted on the computer?

 

One of the reasons she joined facebook was to communicate with her first boyfriend. He contacted her sister, she passed on the message,etc. I thoroughly dug through this at the time. I knew all passwords at the time, easily found everything,etc. We had a talk about it. I think she was flattered he thought about her and reached out. She was curious, but that's about it. The guy seemed a little pathetic to me. He would bring up past sexual things and stuff like that, but she would mostly ignore it. I think she got bored with him and he came on too strong- this supposedly happily married guy with kids and a perfect life.

 

That was around a year ago. I think I can eliminate THAT guy.

 

The current guy I'm concerned with.. I don't know if he was exactly an "old flame" or just an old classmate with an unrequited ( mutual?) crush. Not sure. The timeline seems to coincide with her long term relationship with her high school/college BF ( who is not in the picture at all, fortunately). I interpret it as perhaps a "missed connection" where they had some attraction but did not have the opportunity to act on it. As I said earlier, they did discuss meeting up, but I don't think they did. There seems to be a long time between messages, usually with some apology and statement like " Sorry, I don't know if you still want to talk or whatever. After the last time we talked you might not be interested anymore."

 

I could be wrong, but it feels like she may be reaching out to him when she has a day when we aren't getting along. The dates of her messages with him do not coincide closely to when we've been intimate and are more likely from "bad days."

 

Except for days here and there, we've mostly been more solid and affectionate for quite some time, that does not seem to coincide with her communication with past flames/crushes. At least from what I've found.

 

I am conflicted about a keylogger. In case I change my mind, have any recommendations? I don't know how much I want to know. Maybe there's a part of me that feels like blanket forgiveness if we can right the ship. if I know there is a possibility, and I'm willing to get past it, do I really need all the details?

 

She hasn't really been on the computer since last thurs or fri. She was on facebook tonight playing some games and I was in the same room. I know all her calls and texts. I know the phone number of the one guy. I know longer have access to her email, but she hasn't really been on the computer. I have seen her check one of her emails, but not the one she uses for facebook. We haven't spent much time apart since I posted here originally, even when I tried to get away from her.

[2sunny]

there's still a missing link and you need to find out what that is.

[martyjones47]

there's still a missing link and you need to find out what that is.

A missing link where? You think I need a keylogger so I can find out everything and put it all together?

[2sunny]

why did she change the email password? i'd have her log in right in front of you and allow full access to check anything rec'd or sent.

 

also - what about IM? check that too... a lot of peeps set up NEW email and IM accts if they get to hiding things. a key logger? well just google it... lots of choices for under 100.00

[2sunny]

and blanket forgiveness? how can you forgive if you don't know what you are forgiving?

[martyjones47]

why did she change the email password? i'd have her log in right in front of you and allow full access to check anything rec'd or sent.

 

also - what about IM? check that too... a lot of peeps set up NEW email and IM accts if they get to hiding things. a key logger? well just google it... lots of choices for under 100.00

 

She gave me the password, and I don't think she realized it. She wanted me to use a subscription service that we share, but its her account. So she just told me to login under her account on my computer and gave me the password. The password worked most everywhere else. This was before ( but not long before) the separation talk. After the separation talk, I wrote her a letter where I made certain demands and alluded to certain things. She realized what she did when she gave the 1 password and/or suspected I read something that prompted a lot of what I wrote. probably both at the same time.

 

I have had access to some other email and IM accounts. I often see the lists right in front of myself. She will leave things up and leave the house. Sometimes she signs out but not always. I have accessed her email just by doing a browser history and clicking on a link,etc. Now that I think about it, there are a few more things I can check easily. She's probably logged into facebook and other things right now.

 

Gaming search engines is one of the things I do for a living. So I tend to go for reviews/recommendations over googling. Of course I can google for reviews and then sort through what's good and what's garbage. Was just curious if there were any well known keyloggers with good value/reputation.

[martyjones47]

and blanket forgiveness? how can you forgive if you don't know what you are forgiving?

 

I don't know. I don't know. Just thinking I already have suspicions and I have already decided I am willing to forgive certain things and move on.

 

If I find out EVERYTHING, I worry it can cause more harm than good. For example, if I find out there is cheating, I don't need to know all the details. Because if I move on with her it might screw up other things.

[martyjones47]

I am coming to realize something. Some might say it's me being weak or letting a woman walk over me and get away with stuff,etc. But it's the truth. I CAUSED a LOT of THIS. Going back over days and times, I think I prompted a lot of her behavior. Not from anything I really did ( or at least not what I perceive/d as actually doing something), but from however she interpreted things and how it made her feel. I should have understood/recognized these things, but I guess it's just not the way I think.

 

I've been feeling like the victim in all this, but it's not really the case.

[2sunny]

I don't know. I don't know. Just thinking I already have suspicions and I have already decided I am willing to forgive certain things and move on.

 

If I find out EVERYTHING, I worry it can cause more harm than good. For example, if I find out there is cheating, I don't need to know all the details. Because if I move on with her it might screw up other things.

 

so you just forgive when you don't know what you are forgiving for? how can you fix what's broken if you don't know what caused it - and how it can be avoided being broken that way again in the future? how does she know what role she played in it getting to the breaking point?

 

how does she not have consequences if she's displayed bad behavior? this would only reinforce bad behavior. no consequences - nothing learned. nothing to fix... things remain the same - she continues to believe you will overlook more of the same for years to come.

 

own your role - but she needs to own hers too... do not take away the lesson that can be learned here... to do so would be detrimental to the healthy M that may be possible.

 

if you want to avoid it all - you are only encouraging and participating in staying in an unhealthy M.

 

you need to grow and learn what the cause is - and how to get healthier because of it.

 

 

and i never mentioned the word weak - but i will mention staying strong.

[martyjones47]

Interesting couple of days. Things seem to be going better since I wrote the letter, but I don't want to read too much into it. "Separation" hasn't been brought up again, and we have been around each other more and no problems. I will wait for her to bring it up if there is a reason to bring it up again.

 

Yesterday I tried to go somewhere with one child, but she insisted on bringing the other one and us all going together. I figured she would enjoy some time to herself ( to the extent our son would let her), maybe for facebook or whatever. It turned into a good day.

 

No sex, but there wouldn't be even under the best circumstances. Normal levels of affection- she has touched me a lot in passing or sitting together, leaned on me, hugs,etc.

 

She hasn't been going online as much. I have been in the same room more, though. Then again, if I had been in the same room more to begin with, she wouldn't have wanted to be online so much. There's a long story there. Yes, I spent a lot of time in my home office "working" over the years. I didn't realize a lot of things, even when she told me.

 

I am trying to do more of what I should be doing, while at the same time trying not to overwhelm her with any changes.

 

This weekend will be interesting, as we have plans to go somewhere alone together. This is rare, and for many reasons is very difficult to pull off. I "tested" her in a sense to see if she was willing to make it happen. it's hard to explain.

 

Before that happens she is going out to an event without me. She keeps talking about how much she doesn't want to go but feels obligated. I shouldn't worry about this at all.

[2sunny]

no need to worry about any of it since she insists you separate.

 

seems that you are at her mercy - meanwhile she does what she wants while you walk on eggshells.

 

stop bowing down to her whims. throw her out and see how she likes being separated. make her uncomfortable since this is what she wants - give it to her.

 

she might consider changing then and only then.

 

if she's making a big deal about the event she "doesn't" want to go to - i'd be very suspicious - especially since she's going alone. what is the reason she's going alone?

[martyjones47]

no need to worry about any of it since she insists you separate.

 

seems that you are at her mercy - meanwhile she does what she wants while you walk on eggshells.

 

stop bowing down to her whims. throw her out and see how she likes being separated. make her uncomfortable since this is what she wants - give it to her.

 

she might consider changing then and only then.

 

if she's making a big deal about the event she "doesn't" want to go to - i'd be very suspicious - especially since she's going alone. what is the reason she's going alone?

 

She technically said she was "seriously considering separating" not that she decided to. I see now my first post is probably (slightly) inaccurate. I took it as a decision, but maybe it wasn't. I do understand what you are saying, though.

 

I can't exactly kick her out. If it came to it, I would move out myself. If that time comes I will probably just move without saying anything. She will find out when the kids tell her about Daddy's new house.

 

By going alone, I just mean without me. She's going somewhere with a relative and a group of people. It's not somewhere I would/could go, and she asked me to stay in with the kids months ago. Maybe she really doesn't want to go. Who knows. Maybe I need that keylogger.

Edited April 8, 2010 by martyjones47

[martyjones47]

So she came clean. We were out somewhere doing something that we had done a week or so before the separation talk. We had a fight back then..I blew up. It was stupid on my part.

 

She wanted me to explain why I got angry at her the last time. I tried. Everything had been going fine since I told her I wanted to save the marriage. She said she wanted to continue the talk later.

 

We were supposed to go to a concert together next month. She brought it up. I asked if we were going, and she said she didnt know and that we would have to finish our talk.

 

We continued our talk, basically went over why I get angry at certain things. I discussed some issues I saw that existed since the beginning of the relationship , what I thought needed to change,etc.

 

She went on to tell me that things had been wonderful the last few weeks. I had been like "a perfect husband," but that she was skeptical. She is worried things are just going to blowup at some point and going back to the way things were is inevitable.

 

Then, while we are supposed to be talking about this fight.. She drops in that she has a "connection" with a guy from facebook. Some guy she never talked to in school 20 years earlier. Now he made some nice comments on facebook, said some kind things about her parent passing away- and all of a sudden she feels that maybe she could have something special with this guy- WTF? She tells me that they have only exchanged a couple emails, and she doesnt even know if the guy would be attracted to her or if they would be anything more than friends. However, she is really excited to see the next email he sends her.

 

She left it as.. Things are going well with us, BUT shes looking forward to talking to this guy.

 

Then.. we had sex.

[2sunny]

So she came clean. We were out somewhere doing something that we had done a week or so before the separation talk. We had a fight back then..I blew up. It was stupid on my part.

 

She wanted me to explain why I got angry at her the last time. I tried. Everything had been going fine since I told her I wanted to save the marriage. She said she wanted to continue the talk later.

 

We were supposed to go to a concert together next month. She brought it up. I asked if we were going, and she said she didnt know and that we would have to finish our talk.

 

We continued our talk, basically went over why I get angry at certain things. I discussed some issues I saw that existed since the beginning of the relationship , what I thought needed to change,etc.

 

She went on to tell me that things had been wonderful the last few weeks. I had been like "a perfect husband," but that she was skeptical. She is worried things are just going to blowup at some point and going back to the way things were is inevitable.

 

Then, while we are supposed to be talking about this fight.. She drops in that she has a "connection" with a guy from facebook. Some guy she never talked to in school 20 years earlier. Now he made some nice comments on facebook, said some kind things about her parent passing away- and all of a sudden she feels that maybe she could have something special with this guy- WTF? She tells me that they have only exchanged a couple emails, and she doesnt even know if the guy would be attracted to her or if they would be anything more than friends. However, she is really excited to see the next email he sends her.

 

She left it as.. Things are going well with us, BUT shes looking forward to talking to this guy.

 

Then.. we had sex.

 

so there you have it. even if you are the perfect husband you cannot compete with her friend that's taking up her emotional space and mental energy.

 

what are you going to do about it? you deserve more than to be second choice to any woman. she's just told you that you need to get used to the fact that she's not willing to make the effort for you and she's not willing to participate in the marriage since her fantasy man is tugging at her.

 

 

i have a very difficult time with you rewarding her bad behavior by having sex with her after she just blew apart your marriage... why would you take such measly bread crumbs from that witch?

[linwood]

Then.. we had sex.

 

I`m speechless.

[hopesndreams]

She gave you the cute and kinda innocent version of what's really going on. Just don't believe she wants out of the M because of a few email exchanges. She's not simple, is she?

 

Keep having sex with her and continue with whatever else you are doing and it will only backfire on you. She has told you another man is occupying her thoughts and you are rewarding her. She will soon have zero respect for you because of it. Now is the time to be tough. Without following the 180, she will soon be gone. She now has you and OM and can take her sweet time in deciding what to do. You can't compete. OM must be out the picture, completely, and if not, the M is doomed.

[GorillaTheater]

Keep having sex with her and continue with whatever else you are doing and it will only backfire on you. She has told you another man is occupying her thoughts and you are rewarding her. She will soon have zero respect for you because of it. Now is the time to be tough. Without following the 180, she will soon be gone. She now has you and OM and can take her sweet time in deciding what to do. You can't compete. OM must be out the picture, completely, and if not, the M is doomed.

 

Spot on, particularly the bolded bold. You can't compete with a fantasy. Try as you might, it's impossible. And yes, Other Man = No Marriage.

 

So here's what you tell her: "Wife, I want you to be with the OM because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I deserve better. There are thousands of women out there and just one of me, and I like those odds."

 

And I wouldn't have sex with her, though you could argue that either way. What I'd probably do is start, but beg off early in the game saying "I can't do this, it just doesn't feel right."

[Gunny376]

:cool:

Spot on, particularly the bolded bold. You can't compete with a fantasy. Try as you might, it's impossible. And yes, Other Man = No Marriage.

 

So here's what you tell her: "Wife, I want you to be with the OM because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I deserve better. There are thousands of women out there and just one of me, and I like those odds."

 

And I wouldn't have sex with her, though you could argue that either way. What I'd probably do is start, but beg off early in the game saying "I can't do this, it just doesn't feel right."

 

 

YOU FREAKING ROCK! :cool:

[jmargel]

The only ones that get respect are the ones that respect themselves. You roll over and piddle on yourself when it comes to your wife.

 

Women LOVE confidence, you don't show it. This OM does. When it's a marriage there is NO competition. No competition between each other or competition outside the marriage.

 

You need to start to show and live in confidence. Don't put your own self-worth into her. This is the mother of your children, get pissed at her for being such a awful role model.

 

Tonight, goto your wife and OPEN THAT CAGE DOOR. Encourage to leave as quickly as possible, and follow through with it. If you don't she will continue to disrespect you and eventually sexually cheat on you with this guy.

 

Start setting short term goals for yourself and your kids. Quit playing detective and stand your ground. You only know what you have found out, good chance there is more. You need to take a completely difference stance than what you are if you want to save this marriage.

 

Tolerate her behavior and expect more of it.

 

Oh by the way.. that sex you had with her? She had it with him, you were just a body.

 

If that doesn't get you pissed off to do something about this then nothing will.

[martyjones47]

I am starting therapy tomorrow. Hopefully it will help me set and follow through on some goals that I need to get through this.

 

She hasn't had contact with the guy, but in many ways that's irrelevant. I know I can't compete with a fantasy, a ghost, something that doesn't exist.

 

I know I don't know everything. I know enough. I could know more, but I don't know if I want to do that to myself.

 

The latest: She said she wanted me to know that by separation, she didn't mean divorce. She thought I was taking it the wrong way. To her we could spend some time apart and then get back together. She said she didnt want any legal arrangements and I would have the kids every day while she is at work ( I set my own work schedule around other things). Her reasons pro-separation were almost more logistical than anything else- which really makes no sense.

 

Again, she says things are going great, but she "doesn't trust me" and questions my motives. Stuff that happened 5 years ago is brought up.

 

I am going to tell her to move in with one of her relatives or something. If she's the one who wants out and expects me to have the kids every day, why should I have to find a new place to live?

[mark982]

she's either in this marriage, or not. too much playing games on her part. she wants to seperate, well your going to have to cya, and file paperwork. gotta agree though, she wants to seperate, she's gotta go.