I Want to Save my Marriage- She Wants Separation

[tnttim]

I told my W on d day that "I understand why you are with OM, and I don't care what you 2 have done or will do. I am going forward with divorce regardless of what you do. You don't have to move out until you get on your feet, and our prior monetary agreement is still in place. I'm going out every Friday, you can have Saturday, no questions asked from either end on what we did, agreed."

 

Wow did that take the wind out of her A, it was no longer exciting to her on so many levels she eventually became single, and saw no one including me.

 

The more you fight, the more you make it right for her. Put yourself in her shoes and see it from her perspective when you bash the A. You make it exciting because she is not supposed to be doing it. She's being sneaky and getting away with it. She's having sex in different places to hide it from you because you care. She has control over you with her little white lies. All of the above add excitement to her A, which makes it more appealing. Plus she does feel guilty, but by bashing it you are giving her justification for the A because you are being controlling to her, same old you. So by agreeing with the A you are also taking away the excuses in her mind. Now look at the big picture and see what she is left with by using simple math: GUILT!!!!!!!!!!

 

The crazy thing about my situation is that I have taught myself to use the emotions my W had during the A with OM to turn her on. I have brought back those feelings we once shared long ago by simply setting up the environment for those feelings to happen, but it's up to her. It's like a garden, you can do everything to make the flowers grow, but it's ultimately up to the flowers, all your doing is increasing the chances of growth.

 

So learn from your mistakes because at this point it is all you got. Use this time to grow into a better man for the next deserving female. You will be doing her and yourself a world of good if you take the time now. I can honestly say I am a way better man, husband and father than I was pre A. I had to pretend to be strong, confident and assuring in the beginning, but as time went on they all stuck. I get plenty of attention from females now because the inner and outer me is strong, confident, assuring, somewhat arrogant, and compassionate, and they can smell that like a shark smells a drop of blood in water.

Edited April 22, 2010 by tnttim

[tnttim]

I am starting therapy tomorrow. Hopefully it will help me set and follow through on some goals that I need to get through this.

 

She hasn't had contact with the guy, but in many ways that's irrelevant. I know I can't compete with a fantasy, a ghost, something that doesn't exist.

 

I know I don't know everything. I know enough. I could know more, but I don't know if I want to do that to myself.

 

The latest: She said she wanted me to know that by separation, she didn't mean divorce. She thought I was taking it the wrong way. To her we could spend some time apart and then get back together. She said she didnt want any legal arrangements and I would have the kids every day while she is at work ( I set my own work schedule around other things). Her reasons pro-separation were almost more logistical than anything else- which really makes no sense.

 

Again, she says things are going great, but she "doesn't trust me" and questions my motives. Stuff that happened 5 years ago is brought up.

 

I am going to tell her to move in with one of her relatives or something. If she's the one who wants out and expects me to have the kids every day, why should I have to find a new place to live?

 

First do not listen to or believe anything she says or does right now. She is so confused and scared right now that she is living in a fantasy world. Her back is against the wall and she needs you to give her some space so she can move, breath, and finally think on her own. She needs this time, this is when change is going to happen for her, because she has run out of easy choices. The easy way out has left the building and she really really needs to decide what she wants and needs now. If you are trying to help her, in her mind she thinks you are trying to control her. You should know when she hits rock bottom, caves in, and truly comes to you for help. She will apologize like crazy, express guilt and shame, and she willing be crying uncontrollably. Until that day happens I say leave her alone and let her carry her own cross.

 

Like said above now is your time to change into someone better.

 

Learn from your past, do not dwell on it, vow never to be like that again

 

Visualize the new you; what he says, how he walks, how he talks, how he interacts with stbxw. One day you will become that man if you let yourself

 

Read some books on females, and learn about your prey

 

Your life can be some much better, mine surly is because I changed into the man I pictured in my head.

 

I changed and everyone changed around me because they perceived me differently now.

 

My first small change became a catalyst for future changes, meaning it takes one step to start a marathon, but you have to take that first step

 

Good luck, you will make it out of this, we all do.............

[martyjones47]

After thinking about it for some time I wanted to update my situation. It has been 16 months since the last post here. We are still married. Things took a twist, and I just couldn't talk about it any more. Looking back at these posts, it was really only the beginning of crazy stuff. I've been lurking and reading here ever since. Some stuff I don't want to get into, but I feel I have some more insight into what worked and what didn't, mistakes I made along the way, and so on.

[carhill]

If/when you want to get into the stuff which has happened in the interim, we'll be here.

 

In that same interim, I learned that everything isn't always as it seems. That, along with my D being final last October, has left me at peace. I hope our advice and suggestions and support were helpful

[worldgonewrong]

After thinking about it for some time I wanted to update my situation. It has been 16 months since the last post here. We are still married. Things took a twist, and I just couldn't talk about it any more. Looking back at these posts, it was really only the beginning of crazy stuff. I've been lurking and reading here ever since. Some stuff I don't want to get into, but I feel I have some more insight into what worked and what didn't, mistakes I made along the way, and so on.

 

Well, I hope 16 months on, that the crazy stuff did eventually subside into something resembling normalcy for you, buddy. Take care of yourself.

[martyjones47]

( Sorry, this is very very long)

Thanks for the comments. So much to talk about, so little time right now. I read these forums and a lot of us have very similar stories. Maybe someone can get some use out of mine, though situations are different and I think if certain things had just gone a little differently my outcome could be the opposite.

 

The short (well, probably not) version is ( with a little summation of some background from earlier):

 

4-5 Years into marriage, things weren't going great but I guess I was pretty complacent and never would have imagined any infidelity or anything like that.

 

Loss of a loved one throws spouse into crisis. I get suspicious, notice she has been in contact/reaching out to old friends and/or suspected missed opportunities. Still, I felt blindsided by separation request. Maybe I thought she would flirt some or maybe even do something behind my back but I didn't think she would go for ending the marriage like that. I could see a potential affair developing and the real reason for the separation request, but powerless to do anything about it. Like just watching a slow motion train wreck. This is about where I left off.

 

So I knew the separation request was because she was fantasizing about starting something with this guy. To her, requesting the separation meant that it could not be an affair ( cue "We were on a break..as it applies to me but not for thee."). So I fought. You know, did all the counterproductive begging stuff, thought I could just convince her things would be better with us and there was no point looking elsewhere. Her response ( in action and to some extent, words) was pretty much "Well, that IS good. Things are going better, BUT.. I'm going to find out what else might be."

 

Throughout this whole ordeal I had access to her facebook, email, phone records,etc. She changed her fb password at some point but I was still able to access all her private messages, which were sent to her email. And sometimes she would not log out. I got all the email without even having a password.. it was weird. So while I did not witness all her interactions, I did observe the discussions of their aftermath.

 

At that point I still basically haven't agreed to separate. So I don't consider us separated. I guess I foolishly believed I was turning things around. She goes out to do something she does with her sisters every year. It was actually a relief, because I thought it was the one thing I didn't have to worry about. Well, then I realize she has invited this guy to meet them there. He does not. However, that does not stop her from kissing another guy there- a guy that she considers some type of "celebrity," though he really isn't. Even knowing that this has happened, I still want to work on things ( yeah, I know). I guess I even rationalize this as being not as bad as what I expected, so I've already accepted worse. My whole mind state during this time was just like living in the Twilight Zone, nothing about my life felt real.

 

At this point she still has not seen this main guy/Crush in person. She has been having an emotional affair, though, as far as I was concerned. It was built completely on facebook messages, and to be honest it seemed almost one-sided from her end. She built him up into something that did not exist. And I am just this real husband, trying to take care of the family, unable to compete with this non-existent fantasy. Yet still I try to. She says she has to see this guy ( the background if I forgot to mention is they were high school classmates who never really interacted but years later decide maybe they wish they had). I just put everything all out there, pretty much try to tell her what to do ( yeah). So she arranges to meet him somewhere for a drink. She comes home late, tells me "Nothing happened, but I think he wanted to kiss me. I know I want to keep getting to know him."

 

OK. At this point, I decide if she wants to separate I am going to dictate the terms and give her what she wants. I write up a list of rules and how it's going to work. We are doing an in-house separation ( at this point neither of us could afford to move out, and I could not force her out). This is the last friday in May 2010. I move to a different part of the house. I will care for the kids during the day, and she will take care of them during the night and bed-time. I tell her there will be no affection. Do not try to kiss, hug, get me into bed,etc. Do not ask the other for help with the kids during the designated time ( I want her to see what it's like if we were fully Separated/D in different houses), and so on. I get Saturday free. She gets Sunday ( though I am flexible on specific days, the idea is each have1 full day a week free without kids).

 

She says "OK, and I have to tell you something. He and I are going to ( an event we were talking about going together months ago)" that Sunday, 2 days later. She had bought tickets to this thing, invited him, was going to drive him there,etc. I was really devastated because I felt like I was being completely humiliated at this point.

 

Despite this, even though she was the one who wanted the separation so she could throw me away for some worthless dude, guess who had the hardest time dealing with the rules of the separation?

 

I had no plans about trying to date anyone and didn't really want to. But on Saturday, I was at least going to get out of the house and make it seem like I had something fun to do. I got on a dating site that morning, and within minutes had chats going with at least 5 different local women. I browsed some profiles and had pretty much arranged to possibly meet up with at least 3 at some point, including one that day. I was very honest about my situation and more or less let them come to me if interested. I was pretty surprised/overwhelmed at the response. I met one woman that day, talked, walked around, had drinks. This was not a romantic date type thing. I knew upfront there was no interest in that from either side. The whole time I was gone my wife sent me text messages, including very random things. She wouldn't stop trying to check up on me or find out what I was doing. I stayed out later, went to a movie by myself, just did things to be out on "my day" and not sulking at home.

 

She went to the thing with this dude. Worst day of my life up to that point. Daughter had a softball game, took the kids to that. We went out to eat after, while she was driving this dude a few hours out of town. I just wanted to die.

 

Between the "dating" and adventures, during the regular daily grind my wife is really starting to crack. gets pissed at me for not telling her where I'm going when it's "my time" to do whatever. Tries to get me to do spend time with the kids when it's her time ( "Well, what are you going to do when I'm living in another house and can't ask me for help?" I ask her). I see her constantly in a bad mood leaving for work, cursing her email and texts.

 

Meanwhile I started talking to one woman from a dating site a lot, online and phone. She lived a couple hours away, and we decided to meet halfway and just see how it went. Through all this I am very honest that I am separated, but still in the same house, and I probably am still hoping things work out with my wife. So that saturday I meet this dating site lady. We spend like 12 hours together, not counting the drive. Go to lunch, get drinks, talk for 5-6 hours straight about whatever, kiss for a long time. We make arrangements to meet up again the next weekend, in a more private setting if I want.

 

That week goes on. Usual daily stuff. Wife sees that dude a couple more times, usually just hanging out at his house listening to music or whatever. When the day comes for me to meet up with the lady I am now seeing, wife completely freaks out/flips out. She demands to know everything about her, wants to see communications, pictures, wants to know play by play,etc. I show her some stuff, but no personal communication or personally identifiable stuff. She criticisms everything about her from a limited social profile, from her looks to the kind of music she likes ( "How can you like a woman who listens to such and such or likes this movie). She just completely went off in a way that I can't even begin to describe to the point I really did not feel I could leave her with the children. So I cancel my plans ( I know, but you don't know the reality of the situation). I step completely away from the developing thing with this other woman, and 99% for the reason that regardless of what happens with the marriage i don't want to jump into anything else. I'm starting to look forward to rebuilding myself and my individual identity.

 

So of course, after making me feel like I couldn't go do anything or something bad might happen, she goes to that guy's house the next night. All this has happened in less than 3 weeks since I said " OK, let's separate. Here are the rules." She starts going out of her way to try to touch me if we pass in house and constantly giving me compliments. She starts seeing the guy less, though still trying to. We enter a weird sort of limbo. I admit, I stop following all of my rules. I bring up real separation, figure I need to force the issue in one direction or the other. I say things like " Well. I think maybe I should rent an apartment, but if I do I'm going to sign a 1 year lease. So if I leave I'm gone. There's no changing your mind in a month or two." She doesn't want me to move out. So then I ask if this means we are going to work on being married again. Well she doesn't want to decide right now and keeps saying her emotions are crazy and wants to summer to figure things out. I let her know this doesn't work me and our family, but this pretty much drags on through the end of July. We start doing more planned things as a family, while still having our separate time.

 

She goes out one Friday night with female friends from work. Comes home stumbling drunk, sick. I'd never seen her anything like this. Pretty pathetic, She pretty much passed out in the doorway. The next day she decides she is going to pay (rare) for us to go to this restaurant/amusement type place we go to some times. We all go, and at one point I go to the car for something. While I'm outside I get a text from her that says " I Love you". I respond "OK." This pisses her off: " I said I love you. I was feeling unsure and vulnerable and went through all this blah blah blah and I decide to tell you I love you and that's all you can say?" And I basically respond: " look, lady. I told you I loved you every day until I just couldn't do it anymore, while you were looking to throw me away so you could date some a-hole while we are married. So excuse me if I don't know what to say to that."

 

That was the end of July, and by some time in September we were "married" again. That came from just living "normally" again and she requested to "be married" to me on facebook.

 

The entire outcome of the affairs/separation was: She kissed 2 men, but did not have sex with anyone. Her dream guy turned out to not only be lame but also pretty much shot her down when it came to being more than friends. She developed a drinking problem ( which has been/is being addressed and treated), spent a lot of money without anything to show for it, a lot of late nights where not much happened.

 

I kissed one woman and turned down more. I had at least 5-6 women who were interested in meeting up, including 3-4 who kept trying to talk to me months down the road. I lost around 20 lbs of fat, got stronger. Went to counseling, got treatment for and made progress on a lifelong health issue, and some other good things.

 

I'm still a little ( ok, very) resentful over this whole ordeal. We are still/back together. This is the outcome I wanted. I like it. Things are not great, but they are better than they were before all this happened- things were probably dying a slow death then or at best on cruise control. I've already written too much, plus I'm sure I'll have something to respond to/clarify/elaborate.

[dreamingoftigers]

I couldn't get through all of your update (heading to bed).

 

But welcome back to your thread. I am in the sane boat I was back then too and have experienced a lot of weird crap that I thought I wouldn't.

[GorillaTheater]

Thanks for the update, Marty. You say you got what you wanted, and maybe that's even true, but I wonder: have you two done the hard work to figure out why your wife went off the rails in the first place? Do you have any kind of internal assurance that it won't happen again?

 

Good job on the dating during the separation (such as it was). Mine is probably the minority view here, but I can't think of anything that works better to 1) give you a much needed shot of self-confidence at a time when it's easy to spiral down into depression, and 2) give the wayward spouse a second-to-none reality check.

 

So, where's the marriage headed now?

[Owl]

Good questions, Gorilla. On the money.

[martyjones47]

Thanks for the update, Marty. You say you got what you wanted, and maybe that's even true, but I wonder: have you two done the hard work to figure out why your wife went off the rails in the first place? Do you have any kind of internal assurance that it won't happen again?

 

Good job on the dating during the separation (such as it was). Mine is probably the minority view here, but I can't think of anything that works better to 1) give you a much needed shot of self-confidence at a time when it's easy to spiral down into depression, and 2) give the wayward spouse a second-to-none reality check.

 

So, where's the marriage headed now?

 

1. Well, it really seems like she was going through a personal crisis. Probably the most traumatic event imaginable to her happened and triggered some things. I can't say that something else won't happen that could have a similar effect. Life is unpredictable like that, and some people are ill-equipped to deal with things. That said, like I said that was probably the worst thing imaginable, and we have healing through time and therapy. There is also the drinking issue, which she has been forced to address. So she's had treatment for that and discussions/therapy regarding inappropriate situations/behavior.

 

The one thing that really went off track that was surprising to me ( though I see this in a lot of situations on these forums) is that in addition to not wanting to be a wife at the time, she no longer wanted to be a mother. She had always been a good mother and really embraced that as an identity ( which has the potential to create a lot of issues). That seems to really be a temporary thing, as she really has been a great mother after a crazy summer. And I have done my best to try to address any things on my end that might cause resentment and/or appear as "control issues." A lot of the mother role thing was really related to the death in the family as well.

 

I don't really think there are 100% assurances about anything, but I think I am better equipped to handle things if they go off tracks again. I am a lot more confident and won't be blindsided.

 

2. As far as dating went. It really did accomplish both those objectives, and really fast. It was really wasn't even 2 weeks between when she just wanted to separate and not care what I did, to when it seemed like nothing was going her way and she was falling apart while I was making out better. I rally didn't WANT to date, but i wasn't going to sit at home or wandering around by myself while she was going to concerts and events and staying out til 4-5am with other men. I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was for me to at least find women that were interested in spending time and whatever and were understanding of my flaws as well. I have never really done the dating thing, as every date I've had led into a long term relationship since I was a teenager. I am also likely the most introverted person in the world. So it was good to see that I wouldn't have any trouble finding interest. I also admit it felt good to be in the position where I felt good about actually turning opportunities down because I wasn't desperate, whereas my wife ended up coming off pretty desperate and dejected.

 

The marriage now, like I said, it's far from ideal. But it is better than it was before I suspected there were any issues. I mean to be honest, like is pretty hectic/rough between doing the best to raise kids, dealing with money issues ( her little adventure and subsequent unwinding resulted in legal expenses and other things that her family had to bear more than she did, and I went into a lot of debt trying to stay alive and keep the kids stable), and so on. I am working on personal objectives that really should benefit the whole family but it's hard for others to see that sometimes. My wife has had reality checks and I think she "gets" things better now, but there are still some things...

[GorillaTheater]

Okay, definitely a positive regarding the therapy. Let me ask you this: has she shown genuine, consistent remorse? Not regret over being busted or making crap decisions, but remorse over the pain she caused you and the damage she did to the marriage? Has she 100% owned what she did, or is she placing any part of the blame for her affair on you? Is she totally transparent with you as far as her PC, phone, etc.? You see where I'm going with this, right?

 

If you'd care to share, what's going on now that's bugging you?

[2sunny]

is SHE in the M because she wants YOU and ONLY you? or is she back in it because she doesn't have a specific interest in someone else at the moment?

 

it really does boil down to that... did she come back because she had no other options - or because she's completely willing to do anything and everything to show you that she truly loves you?

 

i think she owes you some serious answers - backed up by serious action that PROVES she has worked through issues and doesn't have the desire to cheat and/or just bail on her commitment in the future.

 

what would keep her from just doing this again? she needs to earn your trust back - what has she been doing that gives you evidence she is now trustworthy?

[active_frm]

mesajınız için teşekkürler. yararlı buldum

[martyjones47]

Was still in denial. $%%%%!!

Tough questions from you guys. Thanks. I didn't want to answer. Now I know why.

 

Gut Feeling...

 

Confirmed.. da@mn...

 

Of course, It's all my fault.

[2sunny]

Was still in denial. $%%%%!!

Tough questions from you guys. Thanks. I didn't want to answer. Now I know why.

 

Gut Feeling...

 

Confirmed.. da@mn...

 

Of course, It's all my fault.

 

sheez, can you give some information that tells us something - something that you may be referring to?

 

be specific! we have no idea what you are talking about if you don't tell us... and there is no way to offer suggestions without info...

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah, don't talk in "guy code."

 

Some if us here can't put together pieces that way.

[martyjones47]

Just busted her now, before anything happened, but still..

Can't talk now. Hectic situation. I am with her and kids. I ruined her plans, and now we will see...

 

She arranged a meeting, had an alibi made everything seem innocent. I suspected, snooped, got it, confronted, blew everything up.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well, that answers your question.

 

I know it may seem

Counterintuitive, but try to keep your head and ask her to leave calmly.

 

No matter how pissing mad she gets.

[2sunny]

Just busted her now, before anything happened, but still..

Can't talk now. Hectic situation. I am with her and kids. I ruined her plans, and now we will see...

 

She arranged a meeting, had an alibi made everything seem innocent. I suspected, snooped, got it, confronted, blew everything up.

 

seems this little charade of hers has been happening for a long time... tell her she needs to leave.

 

as long as she's comfortable - she's never going to change.

[itllgetbetter]

Marty: Sorry to hear that. Good luck with the situation.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm very sorry, Marty. Where are things now and what's your plan?

 

We have your back man, we'll help you any way we can.

[martyjones47]

I don't even really know what to say right now. So I've been avoiding really commenting here or making firm decisions.

 

Honestly I'm pretty down on the whole idea of relationships. I really wonder if anyone is faithful or if the key is to just look the other way. Frankly, I'm beginning to reconsider my whole history of embracing monogamy and turning down so many opportunities out of concern for the feelings of others. It seems everyone is just out there trying to set something up or enabling. Maybe I should have done the same and I wouldn't be so hurt when my wife seems to embrace that.

 

Basically what happened is her entertaining another Emotional Affair ( who knows if more would/will happen) after things had been good for the past year.I caught her in the act of setting up a meeting and I prevented the meeting from happening. I know I can't "make" her not do anything. In this particular circumstance I had the full power to wreck these plans- so I did. I may have done too much in the moment but I don't regret it. Now its a kind of limbo where I dont really know how I feel and I dont really know what's going on. I know I have the power to decide things, but I also have certain strategical ideas for doing what I want to do. I really pissed her off, and I know in some way I could be provoking/pushing her to do something. At the same time I think I've shown I won't stand for certain things and if she doesn't comply with the terms of the marriage, she's in for a real life experience ( she's never stopped living in fantasyland her entire life, it seems) that will have consequences. Someone is bound to get hurt, and it won't be me or my children.

[martyjones47]

I guess I am seeking advice on this one. I am leaving tomorrow. I know SHE should be the one leaving, but it's just not possible. I can stay with her while she dates people, or I can leave.

 

I am considering the timing of leaving. I have an appointment tomorrow. So I think I might just get together what I need tonight, throw it in the car, and not come home from the appointment.

 

Something is going on tomorrow night. She is going somewhere, and I asked her to tell me how she is getting there and who is going with her. It's so messed up that she said she possibly wanted me to go with her or it could be someone else or no one, and that she might even take a cab and go by herself. I know there is no way possible that she will be planning to go there by herself. She might end up doing that, but I know she will do her best to arrange something. She implied that she was going to tell me something tonight, but she went to sleep. I told her there was no way in hell any guy is going to pull up here and pick her up, if it comes to that.

 

If I left at my appointment and didn't come back, she would not be able to go to the event. It would be impossible for her. that might give me great satisfaction, but I don't know if it's the right move. I wonder if I should just go along with everything on the outside and wait to leave until after whatever happens tomorrow. I really don't know. I feel like I have to leave either way, and I don't know that it matters. I sure don't feel like hanging around and basically giving her permission to do whatever, but I don't know about doing it in a way that just seems like I wanted to sabotage her plans.

[Steen719]

She will find a way to do what she wants to do, regardless of you. If it is not tonight, it will be sometime in the future and you already know you cannot keep her from doing something she is bent on doing. I guess I don't understand where she is going that she would invite you to go with her and still it would be to see someone else?

 

You need to get out of this situation now. You must be feeling nuts after being in this mess for so long. Just tell her you are leaving and if she is intent on going somewhere to meet someone, then she will figure it out how to go or who to take with her (although I don't understand that part). At this point, trying to manipulate the situation is pointless. You said you are leaving tomorrow anyway, so just go. Get some peace and perspective on what is actually happening in your marriage, do not date anyone else right now and concentrate on getting your life back on track. See your kids and just breathe for a little while without wrecking her plans being your purpose in life.

 

She has shown you that she is not in this marriage like you are. She is still pursuing others and when that EA actually blossoms into a PA, where are you going to be?

 

Get out now and tell her!

[martyjones47]

I guess I don't understand where she is going that she would invite you to go with her and still it would be to see someone else?

 

She's going to an event. She doesn't want to go by herself. She said she might want me to go with her or she might try to get someone else. This type of stuff has happened before, but only when we had an understanding that we were clearly separated. She wanted some guy to go with her on a trip out of town OR me and the kids.

 

Basically she wants me to be the "babysitter" while she goes out and does whatever. Of course, I AM the FATHER. So I am going to take care of the kids. However, she does not need to go to this thing. So I am contemplating sticking her with the kids so she can't go.

 

Edit to add on in general:

 

This latest thing started pretty much out of the blue one night when I was unavailable for sex. At that point it seemed we had been doing better, and our sex life was more active than it had been in years. I checked all her communication, and she had not been texting/calling anyone else in a long time. This guy was someone she had considered meeting up with last year but did not. Not a random guy, but not much of a "history," one of those missed connections/curious about what may have been type things ( which is worse to me). HE had texted her fairly recently, but she had not responded until then.

Edited August 30, 2011 by martyjones47