SO in a VERY intensive PhD program, any hints?

[Gradschooler]

Hey!

 

My SO is in a very intensive PhD program (his advisor is THE top man in the field and expects a lot out of his students). I will be going to grad school too, but a terminal master's in business, another top5 business school with the same ool cut-throat competition (and related slogging:) ), which means I graduate in about a year and a half from now.

 

This means we do not get a lot of time together, once I am off to grad school, we'll be about 1000 miles away. Right now its across different continents.

 

I believe we have a very strong relationship, but it does get low at times, with him being very pressed for time, and having a not-very-smooth ride with his advisor.

 

I would like to be positive and be nice to him when we speak on the phone, but sometimes it just gets to be the end of the rope. We get annoyed and things go downhill for that night, till either of us calls up again next morning and we're fine again.

 

I know I am not asking a precise question, but I'd like to know if anyone else has some pointers, or has been in the same place as I am right now.

[Els]

Sorry I don't have any personal advice here. But I'm really curious if PhD really is all that bad (cause I'm gunning for it)? Isn't it only as intensive as you want it to be - as in, if you don't mind taking an extra year or two (since most PhD programs are almost fully sponsored by grants, and you can lecture while doing it), won't it be quite breezy? I've friends doing their PhD who have plenty of free time, and they say it's cause they don't plan on rushing anything.

[sweetjasmine]

Isn't it only as intensive as you want it to be - as in, if you don't mind taking an extra year or two (since most PhD programs are almost fully sponsored by grants, and you can lecture while doing it), won't it be quite breezy? I've friends doing their PhD who have plenty of free time, and they say it's cause they don't plan on rushing anything.

 

This type of thing varies greatly from program to program, department to department, field to field, and university to university.

 

Where I am, you get five years' worth of funding and then you're cut off. The program itself takes six years, so you're responsible for having at least a chapter or two of your dissertation ready towards the end of Year 5 to apply for dissertation fellowship funding. If not, you have to keep teaching to pay the bills. There are people who have been here for 7-10 years because they have to spend so much time teaching and grading that they don't have time left over to work on their dissertation. They can't get their PhD without having completed their dissertation, and these days, it's almost impossible to get a job if you're ABD (all but dissertation). They want you to already have your degree when you apply. No more "dissertation completed, set to defend in May" on job applications.

 

Requirements also vary greatly. Some places are more lax and let you take your sweet time, but now most of them want you out the door ASAP. It does you a great disservice these days to stay in grad school any longer than you have to. Your job applications become much less competitive if it takes you 10 years to get your degree.

[Gradschooler]

Thanks guys! Helps that there are people I can talk to, about it.

 

LisaLee,

 

The same thing is true for us. He's much more into I-need-to-get-into-the-top-program. Here's how it was : I am going to School A for my masters, which is the same program he graduated out of, a year ago (we have a 5 yr age gap, so couldnt do it at the same time ). Now he could have chosen to be at A for his Phd after he got his masters, his mentor is there and they share a wonderful relationship, and the mentor is super-respected in his field. He loves the place and feels at home there. But he still chose to make this difficult move just for the sake of a better program.

 

So yeah, thats something I have to live with, but I understand how strongly he feels about it, and I respect him for it.

 

Elswyth,

As sweetjasmine said, that is a variable factor. Specially in business schools, publications are tough to get out. Most will support you for 4 years, max 5. Then you're on your own. And they will want you out. Also, as sweetjasmine said, you're damaging your own chances by graduating later.

 

Also, my SO plans on doing it in 5 years, and does not want teaching load in the 5th year so he can focus on his thesis. In his field, the mean time to publishing a paper is about 3 years. So it is really hard for him right now, since he has to write them in the first two years, so they're published when he's in his last year and on the look out for jobs, to help his cause. Tough life and long planning

 

Sweetjasmine,

You're right on all counts. My SO is very decided on getting out in 5 years and no more.

 

To complicate matters, my work life isn't going to be easy. It will mean travelling 4 days a week, 80% of the year. This is the agreed upon load, and as a newbie, I expect it to be harder.

 

Phew!

[SophieA]

I'm LD dating a med student in his 2nd year. It's not that bad. Around test time we talk less. As long as you're a stable, secure individual with your own life, hobbies, friends, and interests, you should be fine.

[Leia]

Bf and I are both taking PhD in Robotics and we hardly have time to spend. We talk online maybe about 2 or 3 times a day. Every phone call is about 2 - 3 mins long, we are always in a rush. We see each other about once a week, sometimes once in 2 weeks.

 

Our programme is very stressful and it isn't getting easier by day but we're surviving.

 

In the beginning, it was good. Then after a month, we got annoyed with one another cos we hardly talk and tried to compromise bla bla bla. Somehow you just manage to get through it.

[123BeachFan]

You guys are in a LD relationship with current life situations that demand a lot of time, energy, and focus. That leaves little time and energy left over to nurture your relationship.

 

Two things that can lead to the end of your relationship is unmet expectations or issues around fidelity.

 

So, if you want to avoid those two pitfalls...

1-Lower your expectations. He's not going to be able to be the life-mate you might need right now...little to no time to spend together, little time to talk on the phone and support each other's life challenges, etc.

 

2-Discuss the fidelity issue upfront. Are you both exclusive? Or, are you putting the relationship on a back burner for now? Again, you'll want to be sure both parties agree to the rules here, so there's not disappointment later on.

 

In my first marriage, my exH was in a residency for four years, which was very demanding and left little time for us as a couple. Then right after that, he took an overseas job that meant we were separated for 15 months. We didn't survive the LD dynamics. I think we both underestimated the way our relationship would be impacted but it was.

[Gradschooler]

We're exclusive, yes. That has been discussed. Commitment isn't an issue in the relationship, thank heavens!

 

Distance is though. We might be able to meet like 3 times a year, 4 if we're lucky.

[Gradschooler]

 

We've had a rule to talk once a day atleast, if not on the phone then just an email. Its been 3 days since I last spoke to him. I called twice on the first day, no response.

 

After that I just mailed him saying mail me when you're up, I'm worried. He replied in 8 minutes flat, saying I'm up, will call you tomorrow or later, don't worry.

 

I mailed him back asking if he's alright (he has a tendency to fall sick suddenly, a medical condition, not serious but sudden), and if he's pressurised with work or deadline. He said "Not now". End of story.

 

Called him today finally. We spoke for a minute, he said alright I have a lot of work , I'll talk to you later, how are you, ok bye. Did not even wait to hear me say bye.

 

Moments like these pull me down. There's a line between being independent and not-attached. I understand his program is intensive, but 5 minutes a day? Is it too much to ask for? And what hurts is that I even have to have this conversation (which is why I dont have it). I don't want to be in a position when I have to prove it to him that dude, 5 mins of talking to me is worth your time. I just don't want to be that person.

 

I know I might be overreacting here, but I'd rather vent it out here than in front of him and damage our chances even more.

 

I am independent in general, and with the distance between us and his work patterns, I honestly do not rely on him for day to day or small things. I have a whole life of my own ( which is just as well since we're across continents, time zones). Its just that moments like these are tough

[Gradschooler]

And I'm not blaming him as such. He's a nice person, and even on the one minute call he cared enough to ask me if I was fine. But the whole situation is sad

[cooldudeinberlin]

on a remotely related note:

 

when you have enough experiences, etc. been through a marriage and a few major relationships, one or two long distance and a bunch of other dating lives....

 

GRASS isnt always greener

 

another cliché: be careful of what you wish for

 

as I almost think the perfect relationship/woman is where one of us travels a lot for business or something... I think you need just as much time away from each other as with each other.

 

but if I ever had to do the LDR thing again: nope, never, not in a million years... its not surviving it to end up in a good, healthy relationship... its what happens to both of you, the expectations, co-dependency, etc. etc. that harms you along the way without you ever realizing it. Relationships that started or had to deal with the LDR thing VERY RARELY work out... even if its years later long AFTER the LDR...

 

and you are both too smart to live in denial or delude yourselves with "our relationship is very strong" etc. etc. etc.... come on, would you have posted the thread if you really felt that way?

 

I dont mean to rain on your parade, but I dont believe in blowing smoke up your *** either.

 

I know it doesnt sound like good news, but its the truth and more the norm than exception.

Edited April 8, 2010 by cooldudeinberlin

[Gradschooler]

Cooldudeinberlin,

 

My motivation to post here was to know how people deal with it. I accept your point when you say it probably isn't the most perfect one. Okay, it probably isn't. But I love this man enough to put in efforts to make it better, hopefully it will work. Thats the hope.

[lizziem]

Hi Gradschooler

 

I'm about to be in an intensive program in September (in the Netherlands ) haha, ironically I would have been in your SO's position should my relationship worked out, but let's not go there

 

I understand completely your point of view, and I also have a view to add. I don't think that you're insecure, in fact it shows that you're very independent in having this LDR and being very secure with your commitment to each other, not to mention the fact that both of you are in graduate school.

 

Just because you are concerned about the lack of communication in your relationship should not automatically equates to insecurity, in fact, you're very quick to pinpoint and try to find out if there's any problem. You're right, 5 minutes is not a lot of time to spend on you. I also completely get your point that you don't ever want to be the type of person who has to justify to your SO why you deserve his time.

 

If I would give you some advice, I would probably say the same thing I'd advice myself. Try to put the relationship in a lower benchmark. In times like this (graduate school is very distressing), I know the most romantic and ideal approach he should have is to contact you and you become his source of strength, but unfortunately in many case this doesn't happen and we are left feeling frustrated and wanting to knock some sense into his head (but at the same time doesn't want to be the type of person who have to even resort to such behaviour )

 

When people are stressed out, sometimes they behave irrationally and they think that by cutting everyone out, it solves the issue. I know it makes no sense, but that's what many people choose to do. If you're willing to compromise, I say just write to him on how you feel (the way you always do ) and justify why he shouldn't ignore you, and hopefully he will also act accordingly and get your relationship on track

 

 

(Although you should feel free to ignore my advice, because I'm the type to immediately break things off when things go tits up , but I think your SO deserves some special exception to the rule, since you can pinpoint his behaviour to his stress. There's no other reason for him to treat you like this other than because of his stress, and I know it kinds of throw some disregard towards your feelings, but I say give him the benefit of the doubt)

[thisismystory]

 

We've had a rule to talk once a day atleast, if not on the phone then just an email. Its been 3 days since I last spoke to him. I called twice on the first day, no response.

 

After that I just mailed him saying mail me when you're up, I'm worried. He replied in 8 minutes flat, saying I'm up, will call you tomorrow or later, don't worry.

 

I mailed him back asking if he's alright (he has a tendency to fall sick suddenly, a medical condition, not serious but sudden), and if he's pressurised with work or deadline. He said "Not now". End of story.

 

Called him today finally. We spoke for a minute, he said alright I have a lot of work , I'll talk to you later, how are you, ok bye. Did not even wait to hear me say bye.

 

Moments like these pull me down. There's a line between being independent and not-attached. I understand his program is intensive, but 5 minutes a day? Is it too much to ask for? And what hurts is that I even have to have this conversation (which is why I dont have it). I don't want to be in a position when I have to prove it to him that dude, 5 mins of talking to me is worth your time. I just don't want to be that person.

 

I know I might be overreacting here, but I'd rather vent it out here than in front of him and damage our chances even more.

 

I am independent in general, and with the distance between us and his work patterns, I honestly do not rely on him for day to day or small things. I have a whole life of my own ( which is just as well since we're across continents, time zones). Its just that moments like these are tough

 

Perhaps it's the fact that you guys agreed on talking every day? My bf and I are pretty much in the same situation. We're very busy with school work and don't have time to have long conversations. We tried the whole "talking every day for a few minutes" thing but the conversations just ended up being "Hey, how was your day?" And then "I have to do work. Talk to you later?" I guess after a while, he noticed it got bland.

 

I was really bothered by it at first. I started thinking things. I felt like there as a complete lack of communication. I talked to him about it and he simply said that he didn't need that much communication as I did.

 

In retrospect, I guess trying to communicate everyday can get superficial. It was really sweet at the start of the relationship.....but when we're tired and stressed from work, we just don't have the patience and time to deal with each other.

 

I still wish we could have some form of communication every day. It still bothers me but I just have to remind myself that the quality of the conversation is better than the quantity. I'd rather have an hour of stress-free talking than daily "Hey! How are you? Oh...I see. Well I have to do work."

[Els]

Really, thisismystory, you guys are so busy that you don't even have several minutes to spare on a decent conversation? :/ What if it had been an ITR and you lived together - you still wouldn't have any contact during the week, then, and only on weekends?

 

I recall once when I was working from 7am to 7pm everyday - when I got back I was totally zonked and mumbling quite incoherently, but I still loved hearing the bf's voice on the line, as long as he understood that I was mumbling incoherently because I was so tired.

[thisismystory]

Really, thisismystory, you guys are so busy that you don't even have several minutes to spare on a decent conversation? :/ What if it had been an ITR and you lived together - you still wouldn't have any contact during the week, then, and only on weekends?

 

I recall once when I was working from 7am to 7pm everyday - when I got back I was totally zonked and mumbling quite incoherently, but I still loved hearing the bf's voice on the line, as long as he understood that I was mumbling incoherently because I was so tired.

 

Well ideally, we would talk every day. At first, we'd call to say good night to each other. But then he studied abroad. Then his school sent him on a trip to Singapore. So the time difference made it really hard for us to talk every day. It actually really bothered me at first. We talked about it and he said that the conversations feel forced when we talk every day.

 

As I got busier (the both of us stay up till 3 in the morning doing work), I just stopped worry about how many times we talk per day or whether we talk every day or not. When I'm really stressed, I'm really not in the mood to talk to anyone. We talk less but the conversations got more spontaneous and we had a lot more to talk about.

 

I guess I'll see how this goes when finals are over. Maybe when I have more free time, I'll be bawling for more attention.

[cooldudeinberlin]

Cooldudeinberlin,

 

My motivation to post here was to know how people deal with it. I accept your point when you say it probably isn't the most perfect one. Okay, it probably isn't. But I love this man enough to put in efforts to make it better, hopefully it will work. Thats the hope.

 

Well my intention isnt to give a devil's advocate-cynical point of view... hopefully Im not discouraging. Actually, I wish you well and good energy in the tougher times of the LDR... and it sounds like you had a minor set back which can result in the "oh god, Im just so sick of this"... not him, the situation. I think you guys need to have a finite plan so you both can see light at the end of the tunnel... the not knowing and wondering is the worst part, isnt it?

 

I will say this, there is also something very exciting and dynamic about the LDR... some people actually thrive better without an everyday connection and responsibility and still lets them live their life (especially when there is a lot going on Uni-work-family wise)... there are some positive up sides to the LDR... one such is communicating... you have the ample opportunity to write, talk, etc. and further explore each other on a deeper, intellectual and emotional level... sometimes lacking in the conventional relationship....

 

Thank god we live in the modern age, huh?

[FabulousLadee]

I have been in an LDR with a law student for a year now. We met online and have managed to stick it out. We have only seen each other 4 weekend visits out of the year (May 21st is the next visit..yay!!) because I'm a background singer who tours a lot and he is in school.

 

I will honestly say that it has been rough but we have managed to hold it together. We've even broken up twice because of the frustration but that's all it is..it's the frustration..not that we don't want to be together.

 

Ive somewhat gotten used to the exam time like right now. He has exams all this coming week and we have still communicated but not as much as we are used to.

 

All I can say is that I truly believe that an LDR CAN actually work but it's hard..it really is. BOTH individuals HAVE to be on one accord.

 

It takes an ENORMOUS amount of trust and willingness to express yourself wholeheartedly.

 

Having a long distance relationship is not normal..it's not a NORMAL circumstance for humans. We were made to relate and have relationships with people...being close to who we love..experiencing affection and touch.

 

So you're just fighting that NATURAL feeling for wanting to be close to the one you love.

 

It's hard but it CAN work but it takes TWO.

 

You can go through all my post on here from last year and see that it's hard and your emotions can get out of control because of the frustration but we are still pushing.

 

We are both spiritual people too...so our faith in God..prayer has helped also.

 

I wish you both the best!!!

[Gradschooler]

So today we had a talk about this. I said that I understand he has work pressures etc etc, but he needs to understand that some effort has to be put into the relationship as well. It is not a self-sustaining being!

 

His points in the discussion were : (and I am quoting him here)

a) His PhD is his first priority. (Ouch that hurt. To hell with the truth, but I don't enjoy being told that no you are NOT the first one on my list)

 

b) He does not promise any effort for the next two years. Effort on the relationship ie.

 

I don't know what to do.

[thisismystory]

So today we had a talk about this. I said that I understand he has work pressures etc etc, but he needs to understand that some effort has to be put into the relationship as well. It is not a self-sustaining being!

 

His points in the discussion were : (and I am quoting him here)

a) His PhD is his first priority. (Ouch that hurt. To hell with the truth, but I don't enjoy being told that no you are NOT the first one on my list)

 

b) He does not promise any effort for the next two years. Effort on the relationship ie.

 

I don't know what to do.

 

I can understand why you're hurt by this. I would be too if my bf said the same to me. But from an outsider's perspective...I guess I can understand where your bf is coming from.

 

(a) My current boyfriend is a very motivated person. Work is his #1 priority. When it comes to school work, he can block out anyone -- even me. Of course, he'll take time to talk to me. But he'll always be thinking about work. He'll be grumpy on the phone. He'll take his stress out on me. It bothered me to no end. But I realized...I'm was the same kind of person. When it comes to work...I can block out my friends, my family, anyone close to me. Work first, love later. I've learned to just let him be alone when he's stressed. Eventually he'll come around.

 

Right now...I have different priorities in life. He's probably on the top of my list. But I don't blame him for having different priorities...as long as I'm not like...#4 on the list or something. (Assuming work comes first, then family, then me). God, I do not want to be lower in priority than say...video games.

 

I have talked to my friends about it. One friend pointed out that some people can be really proud. They evaluate their levels of success by success in their career. Without a stable job or money, there is no foundation to build the family.

 

(b) Maybe he's being realistic. I would ask my bf something like "you're gonna visit at this date, right?" and he'll say "We'll see..." I asked him about it and he just told me he does not like to say stuff or make promises to things in the future that he cannot ensure. His thinking: Making a promise now and not being able to fulfill it would only lead to disappointment. My thinking: Just make the promise. It'll make me feel better now.

 

Perhaps a better answer in your situation will be, "I want it to work out and I will try my best, but I cannot guarantee I can put into my 100% effort because I will be split between work as well"

[Els]

1) Regarding the career thing, I honestly have never met a guy who didn't have career as his top priority. I suppose that is the logical thing for all of us, man or woman, to do, since a well-chosen career would very likely stay with you longer than an SO. I wouldn't grudge an SO for being like this, but I suppose deep down we all dream of that person who would put us first. The harsh realities of life favour the careerist, however.

 

2) How does he act regarding your relationship, despite what he says about not promising and stuff? Does he really do nothing for you, or does he actually put in effort but just doesn't want to make any promises?

[Gradschooler]

Calls me everyday before he goes off to sleep. Thats all.

 

I guess you guys do make sense when you say this is how it works. I need a rework of my expectations as well, lower them a bit, and be more independent.

 

Honestly, I am the most independent person I know. I grew up alone, I've done pretty well for myself, and for the country I come from , it is a lot for a woman to do. I have a huge social circle of my own, and doing pretty well in general. It is just in the context of this relationship that I get less so. I just wished I would feel more cherished and protected, for once. Lean on a pillar instead of being a pillar all the time!

 

So lowering expectations and understanding his point of view seems to be the way ahead.

 

Any other suggestions?

[lizziem]

Hey gradschooler,

 

No matter what you end up doing, just remember that you are no less independent just because you choose to compromise on what you think is the ideal relationship =).

 

It's harsh, but yes, but I guess it is the truth after all. Career comes first. I was the same way with my ex-boyfriend, but that does not in any way mean that I love him less. I think as a gradschooler yourself you also know where he's coming from =)..

 

I have a suggestion for you. You should decide for yourself (after taking into consideration the lowering standards and looking at his point of view) what you would like in a relationship. And then explain this as best as you can to get this point across to him =).

 

After that look at how both of you conducts your relationship. That's all you can do really to judge his (2)nd statement that he can't promise any efforts into the relationship. Look at it from as best a perspective as you can. Give him the benefit of the doubt wherever possible if it's due to work =). Try your best to make it work as I can see you really want this. But look at whether his efforts show that he still loves you. =)).

 

If you feel slanted or that he disrespects you (by ignoring you for million days for instance), feel free to come back again and have a chat with us to discuss more options =).

 

For now it's definitely premature to say anything, so you should continue to trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt, because you love him. =) Have some trust =). He after all is working on his career because he knows there is something in his life (YOU) he wants to take care of =)

 

Good luck sweetie!

[Evolo]

Hi Gradschooler,

 

Just bumping this topic up to see how you're doing? I don't have much specific advice (you seem to have a pretty good idea of how to handle yourself - independence, lower expectations etc ) but I just wanted to share my experience.

 

I have been in almost the exact same situation you are... My BF is in his final year of a very intensive PhD program (physics) and yes, it has been tough. Not only on our relationship but also on his mental health! I too have been told that completeing his PhD will always be his top priority, which I am completely okay with; the hard part has been feeling like I have been his bottom priority... or not on the list at all.

 

In some ways I think you are lucky that it is long-distance; at times my relationship has felt long distance even though we live very close to each other, because we wouldn't see each other for weeks at a time. I too am familiar with the five-minute phone calls before bed! We also shoot each other a few short emails during the day. This has been good, because it reminds the other person that they are being thought about; but it has also been frustrating.... at times I have felt that our relationship has descended (or ascended??) into total superficiality, because you can't really get much further than hello in a five minute phone call.

 

I won't lie, I have done a great deal of soul-searching regarding whether to stay in the relationship or not. Distance (emotional and physical) can be a real relationship killer - like you said, there's a fine line between being independant and being non-attached. But I decided to hang in there one day at a time because he really is a great guy. I think the relationship has survived because we started from a solid foundation.

 

Now that he's almost finished, the challenge will be to get the intimacy and the spark back. We have agreed to start 'dating' again to make up for lost time.

 

Anyway sorry to ramble... do let us know how things go.

[Spiritofnow]

Blimey!

 

I have briefly read some of these posts and I would like to add this - Gradschool, you sound like a well-rounded, grounded individual, so I hope you will see beyond people's personal experiences, and take a more balanced view-point concerning the advice you require and what you take on board from this particular thread.

 

Being older and having more experiences DOES NOT make anyone wiser, including me. We are for the most part products of our environment.

 

I think that there are practical things that you can definitely do to help maintain some kind of balance in your relationship while you are apart and busy.

 

My bf and I ARE 4000 miles apart and we get to see each other 3-4 times a year for two weeks at a time. I am a psychology student in the UK and he is a Dean of faculty/Senior English teacher at a very progressive private school in the States.

 

His job is extremely demanding, and as you can imagine there are certain times of the year when his focus is totally on his deadlines, duties etc. I have come to accept this, and he in turn is mindful to keep me in the loop when he can.

 

We use lots of online resources to make sure we can connect - Twitter is great while you are working on the pc as they are short status updates that don't take too much time, but allow you both to feel connected to each others life.

 

We also have created a wiki page --you can be as imaginative as you like, and if you have 5 minutes in your day to write something about a subject you are discussing it's such a great feeling for the other person to find you have been on there - these kinds of activities allow you to feel like you are actually having a shared experience rather than just talking on the phone etc. For example; we have a page that is dedicated to our up and coming visits and all the things we would like to do together - as simple as eating pizza on the sofa with a crap dvd. It's also nice to be able to go back and look at all the visits you have had and remember what you did together, especially when you are missing them.

 

The distance can be a difficult dynamic, but if you are both committed to making it work there are plenty of things you can do that do not require too much time, which will keep things feeling fresh and alive. It's also important to remember that the tensions you feel due to the distance are separate from your RL relationship. Understanding that dynamic has helped me a lot. I try not to focus on the next time we will be together, but allow myself just to be present in my here and now, which includes my bf in whatever way we choose to communicate with each other for that day.

 

 

We have been together in a LDR for two years, so it can and does work.

 

Hope that helps.