"All MMs are liars"... and SGs? Others?

[Just a stone's throw]

Pure - We're all a "work in progress". The sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. As long as we're making different mistakes, that's progress. IMHO.

 

As far as the truthfulness issue/lies. First off, I want to say that the "thread" that is referenced was intended to lighten the mood on LS and was an equal opportunity thread for "lines" not necessarily "lies". I for one hope the BJ I gave him WAS the best he ever had or will have. I hope he remembers it for life! :laugh::laugh:

 

But seriously, as far as lies between ExMM and me, we just didn't put each other in a position where we had to lie. We didn't ask each other direct questions often that would require the other to lie or tell the truth. It was an unspoken rule that FWB meant that he wasn't trying to replace his w with me and I my H with him. It was about friendship and sex.

 

I haven't dated in over 20 some years so couldn't compare any other experiences. This is it. I can say that both my H and I would tell each other white lies if it would protect the other from hurting their feelings.

[GreenEyedLady]

In my experience, Men lie, PERIOD.

 

I don't know exactly why I have been so lucky, but it didn't matter if they were single or married. They would say whatever they thought I wanted to hear to get what they wanted.

 

For the most part, I figured it out and they didn't get what they wanted.

 

And in the other case, I'm married to him.

 

But I love him dearly, so what can I say? :-)

 

GEL

[pureinheart]

Pure - We're all a "work in progress". The sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. As long as we're making different mistakes' date=' that's progress. IMHO.[/b']

 

As far as the truthfulness issue/lies. First off, I want to say that the "thread" that is referenced was intended to lighten the mood on LS and was an equal opportunity thread for "lines" not necessarily "lies". I for one hope the BJ I gave him WAS the best he ever had or will have. I hope he remembers it for life! :laugh::laugh:

 

But seriously, as far as lies between ExMM and me, we just didn't put each other in a position where we had to lie. We didn't ask each other direct questions often that would require the other to lie or tell the truth. It was an unspoken rule that FWB meant that he wasn't trying to replace his w with me and I my H with him. It was about friendship and sex.

 

I haven't dated in over 20 some years so couldn't compare any other experiences. This is it. I can say that both my H and I would tell each other white lies if it would protect the other from hurting their feelings.

 

Man, isn't that the truth!!!!! Oh no, I make different ones all of the time...society/the information age makes it almost completely impossible to get cut slack anywhere.

[Ella whispers]

I think that there are certain things that married people can tell their other person and they lie to their spouse about.

If you're with someone who is married to someone else your partner is going to lie to both of you.

IME I was lied to in many ways and he obviously lied to his W.

He lies to himself more than anyone.

If he can't be honest with himself he can't be honest with anyone.

[OpenBook]

In my experience, Men lie, PERIOD.

 

I don't know exactly why I have been so lucky, but it didn't matter if they were single or married. They would say whatever they thought I wanted to hear to get what they wanted.

 

For the most part, I figured it out and they didn't get what they wanted.

 

And in the other case, I'm married to him.

 

But I love him dearly, so what can I say? :-)

 

GEL

 

Quoted for truth.

[JustJoe]

My MW has lied to me, but SHE isn't aware of it . The "truth", is subjective, facts are objective. I truly believe that whenever she has told me she was going to leave her H, AT THE TIME, she believed it , probably more than I did.

[NoIDidn't]

I didn't see anything in the other thread that meant some were excluded from it. Even the former MW were posting some of their own lines in it. And I don't think the point of that thread was that "all MM lie". I remember when I first brought up that my H actually believed what he was saying at the time in his EA (some years ago for anyone interested in digging it up).

 

The point isn't that MM lie. I, for one, believe that they often believe that nonsense that they say while in "the fog". And I think anyone actually taking everything that they say at face value without factoring in "the fog" is ultimately deceiving themselves.

 

I agree with GEL, too. Not in a men bashing way as this thread seems mostly about them, while saying "Others?". Everybody lies when telling the truth might not be seen to be in their interest. Can't control that people will lie to us. But we can control whether or not we choose to take everything they say as absolute truth.

[OWoman]

I sense OWoman that you are trying to get other OW to see that it's possible that an affair can have some sort of ring-fenced honesty within itself. I totally disagree with you.

 

Nope - different agenda entirely! I was interested in the range of views expressed around the question of "honesty" - with some people thinking that MMs were all lying cheats, thus untrustworthy of necessity, while others felt that their Rs with MMs were exemplary for their honesty and openness, unlike other Rs they'd had. Which got me thinking about the contextuality of "honesty" - do we hold different standards for MMs (or MWs) and SGs (or SWs)?

 

It seems that some people will accept things from MMs that they would never accept from a SG - such as plans being changed at the last minute "because the W has thrown a wobbly and she'd get suspicious if he still went out" - while others accept things from SGs that they would never take from a MM - such as allowing the SG to spout BS about "what our life would be like together", possibly because they allow themselves to believe it might be possible with the SG while they know the MM is just using it to get into their knickers, again...

 

So I was interested to hear what people would say to that. And, as I suspected, there's quite a range of views...

[OWoman]

I didn't see anything in the other thread that meant some were excluded from it.

 

Someone - I think it may have been Jen, or FA - posted that their MM had never spun them any lines, and were then told that they should then not participate in the thread. Which is excluding, in my book.

 

I'd also never been spun any lines, so didn't have anything of that ilk to contribute - and, since it had been made clear that posting to say your MM had never spun any lines was unwanted on that thread, there was nothing further I could add to that thread, so yes, I was excluded from it.

 

This thread is not a men-bashing thread - the OP was gender neutral - but GEL's point about people lying when they want to get into your knickers is valid, IME. I've seen women doing it to men and men doing it to women. (I'm upfront about what I want, and when I want to get into someone's underclothes I say so openly - because I can't be arsed to come up with lines or lies or subterfuge, and I find manipulation insulting to the intellect of both the manipulator and the manipulated.)

[anne1707]

Someone - I think it may have been Jen, or FA - posted that their MM had never spun them any lines, and were then told that they should then not participate in the thread. Which is excluding, in my book.

 

This surprised me so I just had a look back at that thread. What was actually said was this:

 

You always have the choice to not read the thread. I have chosen to skip some that I felt didn't make sense or apply to my situation or just didn't interest me. Certainly not intended to be distasteful to those who have had success in their relationships. My apologies if that is how it was perceived.

 

That to me is not the same as telling posters that they should not particpate in a thread

[Just a stone's throw]

And since Annie just quoted me as the OP on that thread.... I have to say that I was quite inclusive of all views and stated that multiple times. Even inviting the guys to join. (though they chose not to). I am sorry you felt excluded. But your thread is meaningful too. Win-win?

[Fallen Angel]

And since I was one of the people who that quote was directed towards, I have to admit that that particular statement, along with several others that followed it made by other posters, did send a message to me that i was to be excluded from the thread because I was not able to participate in the thread with my point of view, as that was not the intent of the thread.

 

It was made clear that my stance about not feeling I was "fed lines/lies" was not the intended topic of the thread, and that the thread was simply about the cathartic release for those who felt they had been.

 

Because of that, I removed myself from the thread, as it was obvious that the thread was not a place for discussion for those of us who do not feel they have been purposely misled and decieved in their relationships.

 

And with that, I have finished my volunteer work ( I love that I have LS to hang out on while waiting for someone to need my help ) and I am home and going to take a short nap before work. You all have a great evening.. see ya tonight, maybe...

[anne1707]

I took OWoman's comment to be a reference to Fooled Once's comment that if people didn't like the thread, not to read or participate in it.

 

 

I had missed this one:

 

If you don't want to participate - then don't.

 

Which is still a matter of choice and not an exclusion

[anne1707]

And since I was one of the people who that quote was directed towards, I have to admit that that particular statement, along with several others that followed it made by other posters, did send a message to me that i was to be excluded from the thread because I was not able to participate in the thread with my point of view, as that was not the intent of the thread.

 

It was made clear that my stance about not feeling I was "fed lines/lies" was not the intended topic of the thread, and that the thread was simply about the cathartic release for those who felt they had been.

 

FA

 

But that logic can also be applied to any topic on LS. If somebody created a thread about their reasons for opting to have laser eye therapy (all I could think of ), I would not be able to contribute because of never having been in that situation. I would not feel excluded though just because I could not participate.

[Fallen Angel]

Damnit!! There goes my nap....

 

See the thing is I read the OP and it read...

 

This thread is for a little comic relief for all of us Ex AP's who are struggling or getting over the Ex MM in our lives who fed us some really cheesy or maybe some really delicious lines. And we ate them up... one by one... okay, I'll start (it's an easy one and I even knew it was BS!!)

 

"Oh my God - That is the best BJ I have ever had... if you ever quit your day job.... (I may be paraphrasing a bit but I have had 2 glasses of wine )

 

Feel free to jump in because I know you have them.... and men, don't feel this is all about estrogen here, you can throw some gilted testosterone our way if you feel it fits!!

 

Because of the line stating "I know you have them" I felt that it was okay to speak to the fact that I did not feel "I had them". When I did, I was informed that the fact that I did not have them meant I should "choose" not to participate in the thread.

 

It really is no big deal to me either way.

 

If my view is not welcomed on any one particular thread, I will just move on to another where it is, or start my own.

 

My feelings were not hurt, I just thought that we could open a line of discussion about the fact that not everyone in a affair is fed lines. *shrug* That was not the intent of the thread, so rather than thread jacking, I moved on. (See, I am capable of moving on when I should!!! )

 

Now, i really am gonna grab that nap. ((hugs)) *if i go to sleep RIGHT NOW i get to sleeep for 63 minutes.. whooopppp!!!*

[anne1707]

I think you should move on right now FA. Go sleep girl!

[jennie-jennie]

I had missed this one:

 

If you don't want to participate - then don't.

 

Which is still a matter of choice and not an exclusion

 

GREAT THREAD!!!!

 

If you don't want to participate - then don't. But no need to come in and have an attitude about it.

 

I too missed FO's post. So now I must ask, since when is stating your view "having an attitude about it"? To use that kind of terminology because some posters (including me) have a different stand on the topic in question, seems very excluding to me.

[jennie-jennie]

All my relationships have had a firm basis in honesty. It is a character trait I have to be very straightforward (as some of you might have noticed here on LS), and when one partner in a relationship is straightforward that is generally contagious. There were still lies or at least lies of omission of course, we are all only human.

 

To me it is more a question of who do I reveal the most for, who have I let the deepest inside, who do I trust the most, with whom have I had the deepest intimacy. I am safe with my MM, more than I have ever been before. I don't have to worry that he will ever use what I say against me, and he knows the same about me, we trust each other unreservedly. The more you have of trust and intimacy, the less reason there is to lie or lie by omission.

[anne1707]

I too missed FO's post. So now I must ask, since when is stating your view "having an attitude about it"? To use that kind of terminology because some posters (including me) have a different stand on the topic in question, seems very excluding to me.

 

 

Maybe it was "attitude" like this that was being referred to as I see these posts as criticism of those particpating in the original thread:

 

To me these kind of threads are distasteful, making fun of the man you once loved.

 

Yeah, there is nothing like strengthening the group like picking somebody outside it to bully: in this case the WS actively in an affair.

 

Now isn't this all a complete threadjack of OWoman's initial post

[jennie-jennie]

Maybe it was "attitude" like this that was being referred to as I see these posts as criticism of those particpating in the original thread:

 

 

 

 

 

Now isn't this all a complete threadjack of OWoman's initial post

 

To be fair you need to quote the post in its entirety:

 

Yeah, there is nothing like strengthening the group like picking somebody outside it to bully: in this case the WS actively in an affair.

 

I usually do not read or post on this kind of threads. It was your comment to FA about "why so serious" that led me to respond.

I understand your intent with posting the thread was good, I just felt an urge to state my point of view on this subject.

 

The first post you quoted was just that: stating my point of view on that particular subject matter for threads.

[anne1707]

Please note all quotes in full

 

All my relationships have had a firm basis in honesty. It is a character trait I have to be very straightforward (as some of you might have noticed here on LS), and when one partner in a relationship is straightforward that is generally contagious. There were still lies or at least lies of omission of course, we are all only human.

 

To me it is more a question of who do I reveal the most for, who have I let the deepest inside, who do I trust the most, with whom have I had the deepest intimacy. I am safe with my MM, more than I have ever been before. I don't have to worry that he will ever use what I say against me, and he knows the same about me, we trust each other unreservedly. The more you have of trust and intimacy, the less reason there is to lie or lie by omission.

 

 

I'm sorry. I have never caught my MM with a lie. And I have been suspicious at times, so it is not about being naive either. I am the exSO of a compulsive gambler, alcoholic and serial cheater, so I have been around lies, that's for sure.

 

To me these kind of threads are distasteful, making fun of the man you once loved.

 

 

Jennie Jennie

 

Sorry but you appear to be contradicting yourself when you say that all your relationships have been firmly based in honesty

[jennie-jennie]

Please note all quotes in full

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jennie Jennie

 

Sorry but you appear to be contradicting yourself when you say that all your relationships have been firmly based in honesty

 

Wow, you have been digging in old posts. Where did you find that one? I am wondering if my memory is starting to be selective about my relationship with my exSO.

 

There is the protection of the addictions of course, and I did see his serial cheating as an addiction. But he was always such a terrible liar. I was going to post something about it, but then I realized he never came around to the lies. What I started to write was something like this:

 

When asked a question he did not want to answer, my exSO would say "What?" to gain some time to figure out a lie, but this would always give him away, so he never came around to the lie.

 

All my relationships have had a firm basis in honesty. Lies and lies of omission would be followed up by telling the truth. This goes for me too, remember I have been not only the OW and the BS, I too have been the WS.

[anne1707]

Wow, you have been digging in old posts. Where did you find that one?

 

No digging at all. If you look back in this thread, I quoted an edited version of it earlier which is the only reason I could remember it. It's from the "what lines were you fed" thread

[jennie-jennie]

No digging at all. If you look back in this thread, I quoted an edited version of it earlier which is the only reason I could remember it. It's from the "what lines were you fed" thread

 

I did not remember writing that in that context, but I see you are correct.

 

It may seem like a contradiction but I stand by my statement:

All my relationships have had a firm basis in honesty.

Edited April 8, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[donnamaybe]

My lover never lied to me until he fell in love, that is.

he never had any reason to lie to me.

Which is it?