For the record...

[Fallen Angel]

It has been brought to my attention that I was previously brought up in another thread as an example.

 

Apparently, one side in the debate used me as an example of someone who is unhappy being an OW. The other side in the debate used me as an example of someone who is happy in my relationship, and has redefined myself as "unapologetic".

 

Since that thread is now closed and I can no longer speak there to each of the posts made about me, and indeed some of them have been removed; I have decided to speak how I feel about the situation, so that there is no more reason for there to be debate held about what I do, or do not feel.

 

First let me state that both points of view which were held about how I feel are correct. I am both unhappy as an OW and content and unapologetic as an OW. Yes, I am aware that the two statements seem to be at odds with each other, but they are not. Let me explain...

 

Being OW is not a life I would have chosen for myself, if I had been privy to the information about My Sweetheart's maritial status before the beginning of our relationship. It is not always an easy life. Often I feel lonely, often I get angry about being in the position in which I am in; in love with a man who has previous legal obligations with someone else.

 

It is sometimes a sad and scary place to be. I love this man with all that I am, and from time to time I feel bitterness about the fact that I am not always number one. Sometimes his family must come first, and while I understand that, I am not obligated to like it. When I am feeling anger, hurt, frustration or bitterness; I come here and express those feelings. I also express those feelings to him. We communicate very openly, and honestly with each other, and I am free to express my displeasure the same as I am free to express my pleasure with him.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way. When I am sad, I tell him that I am sad and when I get angry, he is the first to know it. It is only right that we be honest with each other about how we are feeling, even if it is hurtful to the other.

 

I do want more from our relationship than I have at present. I want him full-time, not part-time. I want to be the woman he grows old with. I want to be the woman by his side when he leaves this earth. I don't want to miss a single smile. But, I have come to understand his need to maintain the status quo at home for his child. And I respect that desire in him to meet his obligations.

 

Which brings me to the fact that I am now unapologetic as an OW. I have come to terms with the fact that right now, he is not in a position to offer me all I want. However, he meets almost all of my needs, the only one lacking is my need to be in a full-time relationship. What I have instead is a most of the time relationship, and to be honest for all that I get from him, the trade off is worth it to me.

 

I get unconditional and constant love from him. I get kindness and tenderness. I get compassion and passion. I get genuine affection. (He not only loves me, but he genuinely likes me as well.) I get trust. I get commitment. I get emotional support. I get physical support. I get a man who has become a member of my family, even if it is not legal. I get his unyeilding support of my decisions. I get someone who has stepped into my life and become a true partner with me.

 

I have no reason to apologize for loving this man, and for allowing myself to be loved by him. I did not plan it. I did not set out to snipe someone's husband. In fact, I did nothing to encourage his affection, even before I knew he was married. I had a friend, and we fell in love, and I refuse to hang my head in shame because of it.

 

I will not hide my relationship from my friends and family. I will not be made to feel like less than what I am because of my relationship with him. I am a kind, caring, compassionate woman. I have a thirst for life and all the gifts it has to offer me.

 

I do not spend my time dwelling on what could be, but rather have learned to enjoy what is.

 

What is, is that I am being loved, for the first time in my life, by a man who I have nothing to offer but my true self. And it feels wonderful.

 

I could hang my head and feel sorry for myself that the situation is what it is. I could spend my time being angry at him for not abandoning his responsibilities for me, but what is the point? If I do that, I would miss out on all the joy he brings to my life.

 

I would be so bogged down in despair and depression that I would not enjoy the hours that we talk and laugh and share together.

 

I would miss out on the fun we have just sitting around playing board games with the kids, or telling amazing outlandish stories in a round-robin around the table at dinner.

 

I would miss out on the fluttering that I still feel inside my stomach when he looks at me from across the room and smiles. I would miss out on the sheer pleasure of the moment when he takes me in his arms and leans in to kiss me and pauses just for a half a moment to breathe me in before his lips touch mine.

 

Why would I want to colour any of those moments with anger?

 

So, I have not lessened my expectations. I have not lowered my standards. We have discussed our relationship, and what it is, and what it may someday be, and have jointly agreed to enjoy today for what it is and let tomorrow take care of tomorrow.

 

We, each day, make a new commitment to each other, to love each other completely for one more day. If I wake tomorrow and find that my needs are not being met, that I am no longer getting more than I am giving, then I have the option to walk away. He has the same option. I, personally, am thrilled that each day he chooses me, not because he feels obligated to do so, but because he wants to.

 

It is often stated that as an OW, I am getting the scraps of him. I contend that I get the best of him. It is because I get the best of him, and he chooses every day with free will to share that part of him with me, that I can be content with us, as we are.

 

Perhaps tomorrow I will feel differently, but for today, in this moment I am happy. I am content. I am a whole person who is one half of a separate and complete whole with him.

 

I know there are many who will not understand how I can feel what appear on the surface to be two conflicting emotions at once, no matter how I try to explain it. That is okay. You do not need to understand. I know what I feel, and I know that right now my relationship, as it stands, is a happy and healthy relationship for me. I know this to be fact.

 

Just wanted to get that out there, for the record.

[jennie-jennie]

FA, this post brought tears to my eyes. There was not one sentence I do not agree with. You described my life, my emotions, my relationship. I can't begin to explain what it means to know that there are others out there like me. I understand because that is where I am as well. And it is a pretty good place to be.

[jennie-jennie]

Funny, I was actually going to say something about this before the thread was closed. I thought the comparison of your R to the other one was inaccurate and unfair. Suffice it to say that I sort of understand the "unapologetic" comparison, but comparing your R to any one else's R is apples to oranges.

 

OK, jthorne, now you need to specify which is "the other one"? You can't possibly mean my relationship?

[BlueeyedJonesy]

FA, I think you are very true to yourself and true to your family..that says alot about your character. You seem to be a very strong woman who knows what she has and isn't afraid to hide it.

[jennie-jennie]

In my observation, I've not seen FA spend hours on end trying to find psychological excuses for her MM's behavior, nor have I seen her post many threads that inevitably become "will he or won't he ever leave his W" threads.

 

If I'm not mistaken, there has been a d-day in FA's case. If I understand correctly by reading some of FA's posts, it is virtually impossible for the W to think the A is over. If she chooses to turn a blind eye that's a lot different than not knowing at all. Not making judgements, just saying it's what I've understood. Again, I could have mis-read, but these are my observations.

 

As usual, your observations about my relationship are way out there.

 

We have had a minor Dday. The BS knows my name and my location, she knows we have been in contact and suspected an affair but was convinced otherwise by my MM. My MM believes however that she is now turning a blind eye to the situation, since that would be in alignment with her character.

 

I believe FA is just as interested and well-read on the split self affair as I am.

 

Can you show me one thread I have started which is about "will he or won't he leave his W"?

 

Or am I the one misunderstanding, is it not at all my relationship you are talking about?

Edited April 7, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[ladydesigner]

I think your relationship sounds beautiful. If only we all shared THAT kind of love with the ones we love. I hope you have a continued loving relationship with your sweetheart in the way it is meant to be.

[Fallen Angel]

In my observation, I've not seen FA spend hours on end trying to find psychological excuses for her MM's behavior, nor have I seen her post many threads that inevitably become "will he or won't he ever leave his W" threads.

 

In jennie's defense, let me say that I, too, believe in the split-self affair theory.

 

My sweetheart very much desires to "do the right thing", but is split as to what the right thing is.

 

What I mean by that is this; society has made it clear that a "real man" is in his marriage for the long haul. If he has children, and leaves the marriage for an OW (even if the marriage was emotionally over long before the OW was in the picture), he is looked upon, in general, as having abandoned his family. It is considered a selfish, immature, unmanly thing to do. The thought of the way society and his family (by this I include his now deceased mother and father, his sisters and brothers, and children; as well as his wife) would view him after this abandonment, is soul crushing to him. He is a man of honour, who has always met any obligations without hesitation. Though I know some will disagree with him being honourable because of his affair, I stand by the fact that he lives his life very honourably and respectfully in all other areas.

 

For him to be thought of as a man who refused to meet his obligations is intolerable to him.

 

He grew up the oldest of his "group" in a family of ten children. There was a large gap between himself and the next oldest, so he basically was the oldest child in the household and bore the brunt of the responsiblities that come along with that distinction. He always had to be mature beyond his years, and he rose to the challenge and bore his responsibility without complaint.

 

He then entered into a military career, where he spent over 20 years following orders and giving them. He has developed a strict mental picture of self-discipline, and all it entails. One of the lessons he got from his carreer choice is that there are things you must sometimes do, even when you do not want to, simply because it is your duty to do such.

 

Since this is his way of thinking, it has naturally effected the way he views his marriage and the responsibility and obligations inherent in such a contractural agreement.

 

He does not feel he has the right to leave until/unless he meets those obligations.

 

Now, the other part of him, the part that has connected on an emotional level with me in a way he has never been able to connect with anyone before, pulls him strongly towards what his heart wants.

 

Which is to be with me, to make a life, a family with me. I hear it in his tone when he speaks about how he wants his child to be able to know me, how he longs to be with me on holidays. (in fact he wanted so badly to be with me on his birthday that he left his own birthday party to come and eat cake and icecream with me and my children. *I bought him a My Little Pony birthday cake, silly man should have not said that what he wanted for his birthday was a pony! *) He is heart broken over feeling incapable to make the changes in his life in order to be with me full time right now. he is torn, torn between what he wants to do, and what he feels he must do. He is spilt.

 

But he must be the one to heal that split. Some say that it takes years of therapy for such healing to take place. I am not so sure that i agree with this. In my case I firmly believe that once he feels he has met his obligation to family, then the split will be healed.

 

He will feel freedom to, at that point, make a choice with his heart, rather than with his head. It is because he knows that he is so horribly split right now, that he will not make me promises. He feels that to do so is unfair to me, as he knows he is obligated to maintain the status quo right now.

 

If he loses me in the process of doing what he feels he must do, then he is willing to do that. he will not hold me back from seeking from someone else what I can not have with him right now. But the thought of it hurts him horribly. Just as the thought of disintegrating his family hurts him horribly.

 

If jennie feels that her relationship is very similar to mine, then who are we to disagree?

 

She tries very hard to understand the thought processes behind her realtionship, and what keeps it where it is. There is something good in that, it is not something to be ridiculed.

 

If more people were willing to really take a long hard look at their relationships, and why they choose to stay in them, the real thought processses behind the choices they make, then perhaps as a whole we would be happier. By constant re-evaluation of your relationship, you can make a conscious choice about choosing your partner every day, rather than mainatining a relationship that is not happy or healthy simply because you do not want to do the work involved in true examination.

 

Please, let us discuss the issues rather than make this a popularity contest or trying to prove why one relationship is better or worse than another.

 

We all have things of value to say, experiences to share, and often times I feel that the meaning is lost because the medicine is bitter.

 

If someone has something to contribute, then please let it be constructive rather than destructive. let us all speak from a place of compassion rather than passion. The message delivered with honesty and introspect is much more easily accepted than the message delivered with anger and finger pointing.

 

Thanks,

 

Fallen

[JustJoe]

FA, that you are content with your arrangement is just fine. Most of what you have said is exactly how it was in my affair, too. When my MW and I were together, we were a couple. We never hid or made excuses (at Least on My part) and In the beginning, I too was un-aware of my girl's marital status. The only basic difference is that you are content with the status quo, while I was not.

 

I knew that I had her love, and yes I was getting waaaaay more of her than was her H was. But I could not reconcile her actions with me and her obvious love of all the toys and trinkets her husband bought her to keep her with him. All of her life, was preparation for a wealthy marriage. Her mother told her to marry a Doctor, Lawyer, or corporate executive, nothing less. I guess a soldier just isn't good enough. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest:(

[torranceshipman]

Good for you FA, it is good to stand up for yourself. I am sure I don't come across as your biggest fan on here, but I genuinely think you come across as a lovely person and I think that your MM is taking complete advantage of the fact that you are a really sincere loving person who would do anything to make a loved one happy, coupled with never having experienced true, honest, healthy love from a man (given that your M was abusive), so effectively you don't know what you SHOULD be demanding and expecting from this guy, and you don't realize exactly how many liberties he is happily taking from you. I hope you end up with a great SG who can actually appreciate this stuff enough to make you priority no 1 without question.

 

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, and I really hope that last statement didn't come across as patronizing - but every time I read your posts, and see the reverence that you give to the guy, it makes me really mad to think about how he is shortchanging you, and that you accept all of this with little questioning. He knows that he is shortchanging you, and he is happy to do so. You're the one that has the many miserable times because you have to share him, you come on here to vent, you have to tell family and friends you are with a MM (I agree it is great that you are open), but he will never have any of those miserable times or be put into any difficult situations, ever.

 

Split self equals MM having his cake and eating it in my view, just phrased in a more psych-friendly, understanding way, and I'd kick his ass if he was doing this to one of my friends or my sister or my niece. I know that subscribing to this theory makes the concept easier to bear though, and I am not saying I am right and you are wrong in not believing it - but at least be more critical about this stuff.

 

Please do not take this as OW bashing, or as criticizing you at all - or of judging your choice to be an OW - that isn't my intention...I am bashing your MM though if I am being absolutely truthful.

[Fallen Angel]

First, let me say that I am genuinely touched by the kind nature of the responses thus far, and I want to thank everyone for respecting my wish to not turn my thread into jumbled mess of hurt feelings. Thank You!!

 

Now, I am curious Torrance, about how you feel he is slighting me. Outside of the fact that he is maintaining his marriage, which we will have to agree to disagree on if we are going to be capapble of being civil, in what way do you think he is dishonoring me?

 

I have stated clearly that I am feeling loved, valued, cherished even. And yet you tell me that is because I do not know what love is. So I ask you, what (if we disqualify him leaving his marriage today as an option) is it that he could/should be doing differently to prove/show his love for me?

 

He shows me more love and compassion than anyone ever has. He is my best friend above all, the romance comes in second to the friendship every time. He is an intregal part of my life. He does introduce me to his friends, however because of the current circumstances not to his family. He spends more time with me, than he does at his own house. The majority of the time he spends away from me is due to work requirements, not family obligations. He goes out of his way to let me know that he is thinking about me, and that I am loved, missed and wanted. He treats me wonderfully and tenderly. He never raises his voice to me. he has never said an unkind word to me, even in anger.

 

I just do not see what more I could possibly expect from a single man. The truth be told, I am still finding my own feet after my divorce, and if he were single today, I would not be ready to have him move lock, stock and barrel into a live-in situation with me.

 

When I need him, I can call him. Day or night, whether he is at work, in a motel room, or sitting on his livingroom couch. When I want him by my side, he comes to me; unless he is working so far away that it is an impossibility. (Though while I was going through a particularly hard time, he offered to drive the four hours each direction to be able to spend two hours with me before he had to be back on the job site.)

 

I really think that because of the fact that he is married you think I should expect MORE from him than I would if he were a single man.

 

Also, I think I would find myself very hard-pressed to find someone who will love my children the way he does. he has shown them what it is like to feel loved by a man; someone who takes an interest in their lives because he genuinely likes them for who they are, not because he is trying to get into momma's bed.

 

As to speaking about him with "reverence"; yes, I speak about him with respect, but I hardly speak about him with the awe that the word reverence indicates. I feel that we should speak about people we love with respect. I respect him. I think he is a wonderful man. I know that he does not walk on water. I am very aware of his flaws. But I respect and love him despite those flaws, why should I speak of him otherwise?

[Fallen Angel]

FA, this post brought tears to my eyes. There was not one sentence I do not agree with. You described my life, my emotions, my relationship. I can't begin to explain what it means to know that there are others out there like me. I understand because that is where I am as well. And it is a pretty good place to be.

 

I am glad to know that my feelings and thoughts resonate with you.

 

It is often difficult for me to put into words what I am feeling, and hard as I may try, sometimes my words do not make clear the depth of my emotions. The reason I am here on LS is to try to find my own inner peace, whatever path I choose to walk, and your friendship and acceptance has gone a long way towards that end. Thank You.

 

((hugs))

[Fallen Angel]

I certainly didn't mean any disrespect, and I do know you subscribe to the split-self. However, I have not seen you quoting multitudes of studies, theories, articles, polls, etc, etc. That was my point in that regard. Not really relevant here, but just wanted to clarify.

I have no desire to discuss the other relationship in question, as I feel it is a threadjack.

Your R was brought up in another thread. I didn't agree with the comparison. I make no judgements as to who's R is better.

That's it.

 

I do not often quote statistics, polls, etc because quite frankly most studies are conducted in such a manner that the outcome of the research will be what the researcher was hoping for. They skewe the focus groups to match with their criteria so that the outcome of any "research" is already predetermined. *shrug*

 

As a result, I am not a big believer in such things.

 

However, all of psychology is just theoretical guesswork. And the best you can do when dealing with the human mind is to know your subject as well as you can, and find the theory that seems most plausable based on the facts you are presented with. That's what I have done, and that is what Jennie has done as well. She is a bit more learned on the "research" side of the theory than I ever will be, simply because no amount of research will prove or disprove the theory in my view. Only my own observations will suffice for me. Therefore I do not have information enough to post about any statstical analysis about the theory. *shrug*

 

I am glad that jennie however pointed me in the right direction in being better able to understand the mindset of the man I love. It was like a lightbulb being turned on in a dark room, which led to me being able to find the windows, raise the blinds and let the sunshine back in to my relationship.

 

When I started to realize that his inability to choose anything other than both me and his family, right now, was not a failure on my part, was not due to me being less than what he needs and desires, but simply an internal split of himself, it was freeing.

 

It allowed me to begin again to enjoy all that I was getting from our relationship. It freed me to really enjoy the journey, and let the destination take care of itself.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Fallen Angel

[VBH]

FA,

 

Your post was written so eloquently and obviously exhibits love and compassion for your MM. I am in awe of your great attitude and can say with certainty I would not be able to approach a situation like yours as positively as you do (let alone continue with the relationship as is). I am a firm believer that what is good for one person may be just terrible for another. This thread is an excellent example that you feel you are being true to yourself and your beliefs and that is what is most important.

 

Best wishes,

VBH

[torranceshipman]

No disrespect meant - it just strikes me that you want more than he can give you, when compared to say, Lizzie, who is obviously cool with the status quo. I also didn't meant my post to read as you not knowing what love is-as that sounds patronizing-but what I mean is that he seems to give you way less than you need (given that you are in love with him). For example, imagine the impact on your kids if they get a bit older and find out he has been M all this time and making you effectively 2nd best. It is fair to say they might hate him for that as they would rightly be defensive of their mom. They would not accept the defenses of his character that You give on here & it might affect them quite badly. I just think they and you deserve more than this.

 

Also I do think he should be giving you what a SG can, he shouldn't be lying all this time (he has told you a big lie by omission and obviously lies to his W) and just in general as a MM has a heck of a lot of baggage you are expected to put up with...just seems like a lot on your shoulders and an unfair balance.

[Fallen Angel]

No disrespect meant - it just strikes me that you want more than he can give you, when compared to say, Lizzie, who is obviously cool with the status quo. I also didn't meant my post to read as you not knowing what love is-as that sounds patronizing-but what I mean is that he seems to give you way less than you need (given that you are in love with him). For example, imagine the impact on your kids if they get a bit older and find out he has been M all this time and making you effectively 2nd best. It is fair to say they might hate him for that as they would rightly be defensive of their mom. They would not accept the defenses of his character that You give on here & it might affect them quite badly. I just think they and you deserve more than this.

 

Also I do think he should be giving you what a SG can, he shouldn't be lying all this time (he has told you a big lie by omission and obviously lies to his W) and just in general as a MM has a heck of a lot of baggage you are expected to put up with...just seems like a lot on your shoulders and an unfair balance.

 

My children do know that he is married. My now exhusband informed them of that fact by telling them that their whore of a mother was running off to be with a married man. (he conviently left out the part about how I was running away from his abuse, his negelect, and his death threats. Which they had all seen first hand anyway.) And they do wish he would divorce and be with me in the manner that I would like.

 

But, and this is a big but.... they see the difference in the way I was treated while I was married to their father, and the way they see me being treated by him. They see the difference in my happiness.

 

My daughter once remarked that before he was in my life she had never known that my laugh was so beautiful, because she had never heard it. That is a powerful statement coming from the mouth of a child.

 

My children have asked him why he is in love with me, but married to someone else. he explained that in a perfect world, he would have met me first, and there would not be anyone else. But it is not a perfect world, and he and I had to be with the people we married in order to have the families we have, in order to learn and grow to become the people we are, that were able to fall in love with each other.

 

My children see that he treats me with complete respect. They see that he speaks to me kindly and gently. they see that he loves me, and them. They see that our love is genuine, and that if we were to never touch again, we would spend forever loving each other. I do not think that is such a bad thing for my children to see. They do realize that the situation is not ideal, but often life is not ideal. They know only that their mother is finally happy, and healthy and whole. And that this man who came into our lives, for however long he stays, is part of what healed me. And they love him for that, despite his maritial status.

[Wileygirl]

Fallen Angel, I am new here, and in a similiar situation. I've been reading your posts the past few weeks. I've found your thoughts to quite an "inspiration", if you will, while I take a good, hard look at my own life, my quite unexpected life.

 

Looking forward to hearing more.

[Luv2dance]

My daughter once remarked that before he was in my life she had never known that my laugh was so beautiful, because she had never heard it. That is a powerful statement coming from the mouth of a child.

 

Wow...this brought tears to my eyes!! I do believe that children are much more in tune with things than we give them credit for and they will typically be honest about their feelings.

 

I agree that everyone is able and willing to live and accept different things and you seem to truely know what you want and are getting from this relationship. If we could all be so honest with ourselves and our SO...sigh!

[Fallen Angel]

Fallen Angel, I am new here, and in a similiar situation. I've been reading your posts the past few weeks. I've found your thoughts to quite an "inspiration", if you will, while I take a good, hard look at my own life, my quite unexpected life.

 

Looking forward to hearing more.

 

I am glad that my posts occasionally help someone. I often think that my opinions are unimportant and unhelpful, but I still throw them out there on the off chance that I may someday say something right.

 

I do not for a moment pretend that every affair relationship is good, or healthy for those involved. In fact, I believe quite the opposite most times. However, there are those rare occasions, where the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

 

Each situation should be evaluated on it's own merits, and people should be much more introspective in their relationships, in general, so that they do not get stuck in the unhappy rut of commitment for the sake of commitment.

 

I hope that things I say will at least open a few minds to the possibility that not all relationships that start out as affairs, or even those that never go beyond the affair, are inherently bad. I believe it is about personal growth, and learning to offer and receive love, even if that love comes in an unexpected form.

 

Welcome Wileygirl, to LS. I hope you stick around and share your story with us. I am grateful that my post spurred you to finally say hello.

[pureinheart]

Hi FA,

 

Concerning your OP, the only difference between your sitch and my former sitch is that it was an EA and his last kid had just turned 18. His now exW threatened for many years that when the last one turned 18, she would be gone.

 

This put a big strain on their M...they both played games with each other I want to add.

 

I was one of the ones that "replied" for you because I remember that thread, and I think it was the same individual that brought your past reply to the boards attention both times.

 

In any R we have our ups and downs, sometimes we "talk out loud". I many times had misgivings and was pissed "out load". It's a fact that sometimes when people are venting, they say things they mean, but it is slighted towards the very negative side.

 

Fact: exDM NEVER made any promises to me, it was ALWAYS my choice. I did not want his M to end because of me, that would be too much on me...I wanted him to stand up on his own two feet. He treated me great in the beginning, but something went way south and this can happen in any R...I was pissed about it and lashed out/vented.

 

In the book called "Choices" by Melody Beattie, this statement changed my life forever: "It's not always a person or a thing we're letting go of. Sometimes it's letting go of our ideas about how things should be, how they should feel, and what's coming next is what we need to do to go into the unknown".

 

Any R is not easy...I have let go of my idea of how exDM and me should be...it is not my unknown any longer. He is him, and I am me.

[pureinheart]

FA, this post brought tears to my eyes. There was not one sentence I do not agree with. You described my life, my emotions, my relationship. I can't begin to explain what it means to know that there are others out there like me. I understand because that is where I am as well. And it is a pretty good place to be.

 

FA, this is what I was trying to say too, although ventured in a different sorta direction....ya I hear ya Jennie.

 

I hear this all the time on this board concerning other threads talking to other people..."why don't you find a single guy"...well for me back then, I didn't want to...I cared about exDM and if it didn't work with him, then I'd go else where

[pureinheart]

As usual, your observations about my relationship are way out there.

 

We have had a minor Dday. The BS knows my name and my location, she knows we have been in contact and suspected an affair but was convinced otherwise by my MM. My MM believes however that she is now turning a blind eye to the situation, since that would be in alignment with her character.

 

I believe FA is just as interested and well-read on the split self affair as I am.

 

Can you show me one thread I have started which is about "will he or won't he leave his W"?

 

Or am I the one misunderstanding, is it not at all my relationship you are talking about?

 

Jennie, with both of us being BS's or BSO's....we know she knows and IS turning a blind eye...in fact, I knew immediately all of the time in every case. I just didn't care.

[pureinheart]

No disrespect meant - it just strikes me that you want more than he can give you, when compared to say, Lizzie, who is obviously cool with the status quo. I also didn't meant my post to read as you not knowing what love is-as that sounds patronizing-but what I mean is that he seems to give you way less than you need (given that you are in love with him). For example, imagine the impact on your kids if they get a bit older and find out he has been M all this time and making you effectively 2nd best. It is fair to say they might hate him for that as they would rightly be defensive of their mom. They would not accept the defenses of his character that You give on here & it might affect them quite badly. I just think they and you deserve more than this.

 

Also I do think he should be giving you what a SG can, he shouldn't be lying all this time (he has told you a big lie by omission and obviously lies to his W) and just in general as a MM has a heck of a lot of baggage you are expected to put up with...just seems like a lot on your shoulders and an unfair balance.

 

Actually, in my case, my kids were older and the negative impact came from their unattached fathers....they respected the fact that exDM cared so much about his kids and stayed in the M for that reason.

[Fallen Angel]

You DO live in the moment, and don't waste your days sitting and waiting for communication. You also SEE your man regularly. You and he in a way "play house" (please take that in the way I mean it) by doing family night, paying bills, cleaning house, etc. Life doesn't stop for you when he is over, when he is on the phone, etc. You do carry on with your life and I believe he sees that and realizes you are in independent woman who waits for no one..

 

As proof, I spent today doing four loads of laundry; finished unpacking my kitchen which includes rewashing, by hand all the dishes(I moved last week); called and yelled at the schools about not getting the buses sent to pick up my kids this morning (they sent a taxi to come pick them up ); spoke with the daycare about the change of address and new drop off times; scubbed the toilets and bath tubs again (the people who moved out apparently never did ); called and cancelled the utilities at my former house; spoke with my sweetheart numerous times; posted on LS off and on all day; played farmville on facebook ; washed cat poop off the cat, and my hands (don't ask!!!!); signed two report cards; filled out a permission slip for my daughter to go to a local water park to celebrate academic achievement; filled out forms for my son to donate blood to the Red Cross; spoke to the church youth leader about my son's upcoming mission trip; cooked dinner and ate it with my kids; scraped the dishes, and got them soaking to wash in the morning, and will be meeting my sweetheart on the game we play together online in about an hour.

 

This is my day off. Tomorrow will be just as busy, and will include as an addition, four hours of volunteer work and a shift at one of my two jobs.

 

 

I do DISAGREE with something you said on page 1 about men who divorce...the way I read it, you implied that men who do divorce don't stand by their commitments. As you know, I am married to a man who was previously married. While there was no adultery in his marriage, he did choose to divorce because he no longer loved his wife and was willing to risk being alone for the rest of his life vs being in a relationship where there was no love, no friendship, no passion, no nothing.... He DID love his wife at one point, I know that and respect that. I am glad he had that first marriage (like I am glad I had mine) because it helped both of us know what we would and wouldn't want in a future..

 

I am sorry that you misunderstood. I thought I had made it plain that that is the way society veiws a man who leaves his family for an OW. (or with an OW, even if he left the marriage based on the merits of the marriage without consideration of the OW.)

 

 

 

I wish you happiness, love and passion for each and every day of your life. And I hope YOU get your happy ending.

 

Thank You, my friend. Thank You.

[jwi71]

Now, I am curious Torrance, about how you feel he is slighting me. Outside of the fact that he is maintaining his marriage, which we will have to agree to disagree on if we are going to be capapble of being civil, in what way do you think he is dishonoring me?

 

Hi FA, I'm baaaaaaaaaack

 

Haven't really spoken to you in awhile. No real need tbh - and in a good way. Sorta.

 

Now, I read this with some interest. Then I read the above I quoted.

 

Basically, you are saying "Torrance, point out where he is disrespecting me except for where he is disrespecting me". Ooops, you guys said dishonoring but I'm too lazy to retype it. In any case, you know what I mean.

 

You clearly want and desire it. Hell, you deserve it at this point no? Then why, in this discussion, are we going to take the ONE THING you most desire out of the discussion? The one, and most blatantly obvious, glaring and open honor he can give is not on the table so to speak. That one omission completely invalidates this and turns this "discussion" into some celebration of all the needs he meets. Except the one he won't.

 

It clearly pains you FA. It has, in some form, been a fairly constant theme for you. You and MM have had more than a few discussions on it. Each time, the answer, however cleverly or "nobly" or gently given is no. In fact, he has made it perfectly clear the answer will forever be no. And since you have equally consistently said its what you want...how do you reconcile this gap between his no and your yes.

 

Might one say that you are settling? To accept less than what you want and deserve.

 

Do you believe this to be true FA?

 

JW

[GreenEyedLady]

FA:

 

You don't have to explain, you know? If someone calls you out in a thread etc, you can just report it.

 

I say this because I want you to realize that you don't have to explain yourself.

 

I remember that I hadn't been here very long and WWIU made a post basically telling me that my man would never make an honest woman of me (in paraphrase). It was in the heat of a post war between the BS's and the OW (which I have to admit, I don't see here anymore). I basically said it was none of her business.

 

In reality, your R is none of our business. I only post now when I think I can help or have a different perspective on the topic (or if if think there's a troll sniffing around). But I want you to realize that you don't owe anyone here. Your R is yours. We don't know you or your MM. Only you do. When I give you advice, I give it to you from heart, and in your best interest. But only you know your circumstances. Never feel like you have to answer anyone's questions.

 

Also, be careful about someone who comes sniffing with questions. You never know who is who here. TMI will get people discovered. Always be wary of anyone who wants to know your personal circumstances.

 

I thought I should put that out there because the OG's aren't here anymore. And anonymity seems a given. It's not. The world wide web is the world wide web.

 

I hope that your R goes the way that you want it to. Remember, that YOU hold the power here. Don't ever settle for less than you want. I'm SURE that you can get it.

 

GEL