For the record...

[pureinheart]

When I first joined LS, and explained (or tried to explain) my situation, people came out of the woodwork to trash me. I was surprised, to say the least. All forms of character flaws were attributed to me. Jennie, FA and yourself, were among the few who at least tried to understand. I hope that FA will be treated better.

 

Unfortunately this is the norm of treatment unless you want out of the R and hate the MP.

 

I wish things could be different for you ...you got my prayers, if that's ok with you....

[JustJoe]

PIH, it's much more than OK, thank you.

[torranceshipman]

Lots of people have to politely just play along...friends who see a MM introduced himself as a 'boyfriend', peoples kids who have to pretend they're ok with the whole deal (if anyone has been a teacher and worked with teens and pre-teens, they'll hear what the parents don't hear - kids can get super protective but at their own cost, unfortunately)...co-workers, friends, spouses of friends who feel a bit icky about the lies but have to put a good face on it all anyway and just do it because their friend wants them to...unfortunately lots of people have to play along...

 

Also, pretending to oneself that the MM is 'with' them even when they are with the W in bed in the evenings, in the family home or on vacation or just having a fun family time... just because they throw a few emails and texts to the OW during this time to keep them happy...well, that is the bare minimum and a bit of a delusion for anyone to accept that as caring (he no doubt minimizes the OW's text as 'annoying work project, have to correspond on this, sorry baby, wait a minute then I am all yours'-then he IS all hers)...

 

What bothers me about threads like this is the self-delusion...sometimes you read about OW's who you can tell are happy with the status quo or who stand up for what they want when they don't get it, but I don't see that here - just a bunch of lowered standards that are lowered continually so staying with the MM is justified...OP, if you kicked this guy to the kerb and asked for more you'd likely get it - he WANTS you both so he'd step up for you if you made him - you should be tougher. Though he would never leave his family for you, as your place is OW, but he would I am sure hate to lose both pieces of the picture so you should demand more of what you want at least...

[Fallen Angel]

When I first joined LS, and explained (or tried to explain) my situation, people came out of the woodwork to trash me. I was surprised, to say the least. All forms of character flaws were attributed to me. Jennie, FA and yourself, were among the few who at least tried to understand. I hope that FA will be treated better.

 

I was treated in much the same manner, and continue to be so by some. It is not the sex of the poster that distinguishes your treatment here, but your place in the triangle.

 

I have however, made friendships of sort here with people who have a very different view of things. It is I believe my willingness to be open minded about what they have to say to me that allows me to be on the recieving end of a bit more kindness than some.

[Fallen Angel]

You open this thread speaking about how you DON'T want to be the OW and you want more.

 

Then, above, how its ok, even wonderful, for you now.

 

What you want is very fickle. I can't keep track of what you want even within THIS THREAD.

 

Do you have any idea of what you want?

 

Or is it ever shifting like the sands?

 

How can you EVER end this if you always move the bar which triggers "leaving"? Always content, never happy. I'm sure you have your moments, but your posts, to me, are a glowing red neon sign of "I don't know what I want so I'll just hang on".

 

FA, a string of isolated moments is not a life.... And again, I'm just afraid you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

JW

 

I do not ever say that being OW is "okay" or "wonderful". What I said is that my relationship with this man is wonderful. There is to my mind a distinct difference.

 

The dating relationship that we enjoy is a good thing for me. the fact that he is still married, not so much, but I understand why he feels the need to maintain the status quo.

 

I am certain I addressed exactly this in my OP.

 

As to moving the bar which triggers leaving, I have always set the bar in the same place. I will leave when I am no longer enjoying the relationship, or getting my needs met by it.

[Fallen Angel]

Lots of people have to politely just play along...friends who see a MM introduced himself as a 'boyfriend', peoples kids who have to pretend they're ok with the whole deal (if anyone has been a teacher and worked with teens and pre-teens, they'll hear what the parents don't hear - kids can get super protective but at their own cost, unfortunately)...co-workers, friends, spouses of friends who feel a bit icky about the lies but have to put a good face on it all anyway and just do it because their friend wants them to...unfortunately lots of people have to play along...

 

Also, pretending to oneself that the MM is 'with' them even when they are with the W in bed in the evenings, in the family home or on vacation or just having a fun family time... just because they throw a few emails and texts to the OW during this time to keep them happy...well, that is the bare minimum and a bit of a delusion for anyone to accept that as caring (he no doubt minimizes the OW's text as 'annoying work project, have to correspond on this, sorry baby, wait a minute then I am all yours'-then he IS all hers)...

 

What bothers me about threads like this is the self-delusion...sometimes you read about OW's who you can tell are happy with the status quo or who stand up for what they want when they don't get it, but I don't see that here - just a bunch of lowered standards that are lowered continually so staying with the MM is justified...OP, if you kicked this guy to the kerb and asked for more you'd likely get it - he WANTS you both so he'd step up for you if you made him - you should be tougher. Though he would never leave his family for you, as your place is OW, but he would I am sure hate to lose both pieces of the picture so you should demand more of what you want at least...

 

No one has to "politely play along", where do you get that idea?

 

If anyone chooses to not be friends with him or me because of our relationship, do you think we would force the issue? The friends we share in common almost all are people who we both knew independant of the other first. All of them have welcomed the "newcomer" to the friendship circle with open arms and embraced their friendship.

 

I have become good friends with the wife of a couple he introduced me to, not through my own efforts but through hers. She reached out to me after the introduction. To say that they are forced to "play along" is preposterous.

 

As to the children, I assure you, you are once again missing the mark. My children adore my sweetheart, and he them. (even my oldest, a teen-ager.) In fact, they will sometimes call him just to speak with him, and getting alone time with him is sometimes difficult as they very much want to spend time with him when he is here.

 

It also amazes me how you make assumptions about his home life and where he sleeps. Or how or even if he minimizes my calls or texts. Do not assume to know the truth of the matter. You do not.

 

I have already spoken to the "lowered standards" dig. I do not have lowered standards, I understand his needs, and he understands mine, and we meet them in each other. I would even go so far as to say that our relationship is much healthier than many marriages, in that we have set high standards for what we expect, from each other and ourselves, and we will accept no less.

 

As to "kicking him to the curb" to get him to leave his family. You are perhaps correct. I too believe that if I did so, he would leave for me. But that is not how want him to leave. I want him to leave on his terms, a choice freely made, not forced. I know the hell that he will be put through by his wife and extended families, if I force such a traumatic ending of their marriage today; he would likely eventually resent me for some of that. Why would I want to do anything that could in time cause him to resent me? If/when he leaves on his own, there would be no cause for resentment, as he will be well prepared to face what ever is thrown at him, by having thoroughly thought out his choices and arrived at decisions based solely on his own free will.

[BB07]

As to "kicking him to the curb" to get him to leave his family. You are perhaps correct. I too believe that if I did so, he would leave for me. But that is not how want him to leave. I want him to leave on his terms, a choice freely made, not forced. I know the hell that he will be put through by his wife and extended families, if I force such a traumatic ending of their marriage today; he would likely eventually resent me for some of that. Why would I want to do anything that could in time cause him to resent me? If/when he leaves on his own, there would be no cause for resentment, as he will be well prepared to face what ever is thrown at him, by having thoroughly thought out his choices and arrived at decisions based solely on his own free will.

 

I wanted to make a few comments on that part of your post FA. Hope I'm not t/jacking too much.

 

I can very much relate to your statement above as I think back on the time that I was in the affair with my stbdmm. Your statement describes very much how I felt at a particular time in our history and when I look back on it, I'm so glad that I did not try to force his exit of the marriage. I always knew he would leave it at some point in time, but I knew it would have to be when he was ready and also I didn't want him to leave for me, I wanted him to leave because he was done with that relationship and ready for me. Major decisions are very complicated and most often fraught with a huge roller coaster of emotions and to demand that someone does what we want only heightens the negative and increases the odds that the reasons won't be ideal.

 

I believe you FA in that you are mostly good with the place that your sweetheart has in your life and if you are truly good with it then others should back off and respect your truth and your choice.

[jennie-jennie]

I wanted to make a few comments on that part of your post FA. Hope I'm not t/jacking too much.

 

I can very much relate to your statement above as I think back on the time that I was in the affair with my stbdmm. Your statement describes very much how I felt at a particular time in our history and when I look back on it, I'm so glad that I did not try to force his exit of the marriage. I always knew he would leave it at some point in time, but I knew it would have to be when he was ready and also I didn't want him to leave for me, I wanted him to leave because he was done with that relationship and ready for me. Major decisions are very complicated and most often fraught with a huge roller coaster of emotions and to demand that someone does what we want only heightens the negative and increases the odds that the reasons won't be ideal.

 

I too believe that it is important that the MM leaves on his own accord. At times when I have pushed my MM, he has reacted strongly, saying it is important that he not associate me with what he sees as a hurtful action towards his wife. If/when he is going to divorce his wife, he needs to do it on his own accord, by his own decision, and with me as little as possible mixed into it.

[BB07]

I too believe that it is important that the MM leaves on his own accord. At times when I have pushed my MM, he has reacted strongly, saying it is important that he not associate me with what he sees as a hurtful action towards his wife. If/when he is going to divorce his wife, he needs to do it on his own accord, by his own decision, and with me as little as possible mixed into it.

 

 

By nature we are selfish because the hearts wants what it wants, but yet to leave a marriage is one of the biggest life decisions that anyone can make and to be bullied or swayed unfairly will bite both later IMO. Looking back on it I am so glad that I stepped away. I stepped away for a lot of reasons, some of them being for myself and some of them being for him. I just couldn't deal with it anymore, it was too hard and too painful. I wanted him to get clarity and be sure that he wanted to leave with as little influence from me as possible.

He and I both carry some leftovers of what was before, but I'm positive that it would have been a heavier load for both of us if I had still been in the picture when he left.

[White Flower]

You open this thread speaking about how you DON'T want to be the OW and you want more.

 

Then, above, how its ok, even wonderful, for you now.

 

What you want is very fickle. I can't keep track of what you want even within THIS THREAD.

 

Do you have any idea of what you want?

 

Or is it ever shifting like the sands?

 

JW,

 

I wonder if what you would want is more important to you than what FA wants?

 

I can see that she obviously wants to be in a full time R with her honey but that she is willing to wait out the ride until a new R can be renegotiated at a later date. In the meantime, she will enjoy the currrent R for all that it brings her which is completely satisfying on most if not all days. That isn't even expected in most Ms!!! If she was only 50% happy most of the time when she was M, but 95% happy most of the time as an OW with THIS MM, how can we argue that she really isn't happy? There is not shift there.

 

The odds are way against your theory; your theory being based on what would make YOU happy.

 

Just sayin, FWIW.

[BB07]

After reading my post again, I realize that what I said below may sound preachy as to what someone else should do:eek:.......I really didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to say that I did what worked best for me and him and looking back on it, I'm even more sure that it was the right thing for both of us.

 

 

 

By nature we are selfish because the hearts wants what it wants, but yet to leave a marriage is one of the biggest life decisions that anyone can make and to be bullied or swayed unfairly will bite both later IMO. Looking back on it I am so glad that I stepped away. I stepped away for a lot of reasons, some of them being for myself and some of them being for him. I just couldn't deal with it anymore, it was too hard and too painful. I wanted him to get clarity and be sure that he wanted to leave with as little influence from me as possible.

He and I both carry some leftovers of what was before, but I'm positive that it would have been a heavier load for both of us if I had still been in the picture when he left.

[jennie-jennie]

After reading my post again, I realize that what I said below may sound preachy as to what someone else should do:eek:.......I really didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to say that I did what worked best for me and him and looking back on it, I'm even more sure that it was the right thing for both of us.

 

BB, I didn't find your post preachy at all. I found your posts helpful in strengthening me in letting my MM work in his own pace on his decision whether to divorce or not.

 

My situation is different than yours in the sense that my MM would never get a divorce if it were not for me. So I see no need to leave our relationship for him to figure out what to do with his marriage. With me out of the equation he wouldn't have a decision to make. Other than that I believe you and I look at the severity of making such a life-altering decision in the same way.

[JustJoe]

BBO7, your post wasn't at all "preachy". It really hit close to home. The Ladies on this thread have been marvelous:love: and ALL of you have helped me so much, I wish there was something I could do to repay you. I finally have decided what I'm going to do, and I thank you!!!!!:D:D

[BB07]

BB, I didn't find your post preachy at all. I found your posts helpful in strengthening me in letting my MM work in his own pace on his decision whether to divorce or not.

 

My situation is different than yours in the sense that my MM would never get a divorce if it were not for me. So I see no need to leave our relationship for him to figure out what to do with his marriage. With me out of the equation he wouldn't have a decision to make. Other than that I believe you and I look at the severity of making such a life-altering decision in the same way.

 

Thanks Jennie. As you already know it can be a long hard ride. There were many times when I doubted it would ever come to pass and there were lots of times when I thought we'd just go on loving each other from a distance and never know what could have been, but.......here we are and our adventure is just about to begin. He is weeks away from finally settling with her and then we can get on with our lives.......together, finally after all this time.

It's terrifying but very exciting at the same time.

[jennie-jennie]

BBO7, your post wasn't at all "preachy". It really hit close to home. The Ladies on this thread have been marvelous:love: and ALL of you have helped me so much, I wish there was something I could do to repay you. I finally have decided what I'm going to do, and I thank you!!!!!:D:D

 

What, what? Now you have us jumping up and down and wondering what have you decided upon?!! :bunny:

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks Jennie. As you already know it can be a long hard ride. There were many times when I doubted it would ever come to pass and there were lots of times when I thought we'd just go on loving each other from a distance and never know what could have been, but.......here we are and our adventure is just about to begin. He is weeks away from finally settling with her and then we can get on with our lives.......together, finally after all this time.

It's terrifying but very exciting at the same time.

 

It is so nice to hear some good news in this department for once.

[BB07]

BBO7, your post wasn't at all "preachy". It really hit close to home. The Ladies on this thread have been marvelous:love: and ALL of you have helped me so much, I wish there was something I could do to repay you. I finally have decided what I'm going to do, and I thank you!!!!!:D:D

 

Keep us posted JustJoe and I hope things go well for you.

[Fallen Angel]

BBO7, your post wasn't at all "preachy". It really hit close to home. The Ladies on this thread have been marvelous:love: and ALL of you have helped me so much, I wish there was something I could do to repay you. I finally have decided what I'm going to do, and I thank you!!!!!:D:D

 

Yes, you have me very interested as well. (insert "gotta know, gotta know NOW" face here)

[White Flower]

There is not a shift there.

Correction made in bold.

[White Flower]

When I first joined LS, and explained (or tried to explain) my situation, people came out of the woodwork to trash me. I was surprised, to say the least. All forms of character flaws were attributed to me. Jennie, FA and yourself, were among the few who at least tried to understand. I hope that FA will be treated better.

I'm glad we were able to help you.

BBO7, your post wasn't at all "preachy". It really hit close to home. The Ladies on this thread have been marvelous:love: and ALL of you have helped me so much, I wish there was something I could do to repay you. I finally have decided what I'm going to do, and I thank you!!!!!:D:D

Oh, DO tell!!!

[JustJoe]

Well, I've already told her that we can no longer be together, if she is still married. This is not what I want, at all, but perhaps maybe it is what I need. I am changing careers this summer, and will go from soldier to teacher, and I simply cannot deal with all of the issues involved in the affair and all of the other changes, at the same time. To turn your back on the one you love is an experience I would just as leave never repeat.

[White Flower]

Well, I've already told her that we can no longer be together, if she is still married. This is not what I want, at all, but perhaps maybe it is what I need. I am changing careers this summer, and will go from soldier to teacher, and I simply cannot deal with all of the issues involved in the affair and all of the other changes, at the same time. To turn your back on the one you love is an experience I would just as leave never repeat.

Hugs, Joe. I totally understand.

[jwi71]

JW,

 

I wonder if what you would want is more important to you than what FA wants?

 

I can see that she obviously wants to be in a full time R with her honey but that she is willing to wait out the ride until a new R can be renegotiated at a later date. In the meantime, she will enjoy the currrent R for all that it brings her which is completely satisfying on most if not all days. That isn't even expected in most Ms!!! If she was only 50% happy most of the time when she was M, but 95% happy most of the time as an OW with THIS MM, how can we argue that she really isn't happy? There is not shift there.

 

The odds are way against your theory; your theory being based on what would make YOU happy.

 

Just sayin, FWIW.

 

No prob WF.

 

I am simply concerned that FA ends up hurt.

As do her children.

And because I have those fears and wish the best for her, I voice them as opposed to "moving on" or saying "its her life".

 

I simply want to point out what I think are discrepancies, contradictions and "holes". I want her to think about it.

 

I WANT her happy with a big ol' hunking rock on her hand.

 

Just afraid she is chasing a false messiah. I can't see him leaving - he has NO reason to leave and EVERY reason to stay. FA wants more and I think she should have it. She waits, more years pass by and then it hits her...she wasted her life for a part-time "H".

 

Guess I've said my bit for now.

 

JW

[White Flower]

No prob WF.

 

I am simply concerned that FA ends up hurt.

As do her children.

And because I have those fears and wish the best for her, I voice them as opposed to "moving on" or saying "its her life".

 

I simply want to point out what I think are discrepancies, contradictions and "holes". I want her to think about it.

 

I WANT her happy with a big ol' hunking rock on her hand.

 

Just afraid she is chasing a false messiah. I can't see him leaving - he has NO reason to leave and EVERY reason to stay. FA wants more and I think she should have it. She waits, more years pass by and then it hits her...she wasted her life for a part-time "H".

 

Guess I've said my bit for now.

 

JW

I get it. I want happiness for FA too.

[Fallen Angel]

No prob WF.

 

I am simply concerned that FA ends up hurt.

As do her children.

And because I have those fears and wish the best for her, I voice them as opposed to "moving on" or saying "its her life".

 

I simply want to point out what I think are discrepancies, contradictions and "holes". I want her to think about it.

 

I WANT her happy with a big ol' hunking rock on her hand.

 

Just afraid she is chasing a false messiah. I can't see him leaving - he has NO reason to leave and EVERY reason to stay. FA wants more and I think she should have it. She waits, more years pass by and then it hits her...she wasted her life for a part-time "H".

 

Guess I've said my bit for now.

 

JW

 

AWWWWWWW.. you are so sweet!