I keep asking my guy about his past and it's driving him nuts. Is he overreacting?

[Thinkalot]

Well this should be interesting. I usually post when I am feeling calm and in control. Right now I am in tears and feeling sad and emotional...anyway, here goes...

 

As many of you are aware, I am overcoming obsessive thinking about my bf's ex-wife/past etc, and the related insecurity ,self esteem issues that drive much of that thinking. I am seeing a psychologist, have been taking anti-depressants for nearly a month, am reading books and AM SEEING IMPROVEMENTS! My partner has also said he sees improvements and knows how hard I am trying. Even my parents have noticed.

 

The thing is, my issues have been going on for a while and have taken their toll on my relationship and made my partner less patient than he once was, and more volatile and stressed. In fact, he nearly left before Xmas, but his love for me, and the soul like connection we feel, meant he was unable to walk away. I would have understood if he had left and would have been devastated.

 

The thing is, I am not perfect and continue to make mistakes on my journey to full recovery. And his ability to cope with my setbacks or questioning seems to be at an all time low. He has tried and does still try to be patient, loving and supportive. I must say he's done a good job on the whole.

But when he loses his temper with me now he really goes off at me, and treats me with disrespect. I am scared, in short, that his love and respect and patience for me has maybe diminished too far, or that he doesn't have the strength or willpower to lift it back to where it was.

 

Yes, usually it is my fault, or me that triggers it, by questioning, or doing my old insecurity stuff, or not letting a subject drop...I'm trying, but I still stuff up sometimes. But while I can see how I might have annoyed him, and take responsibility for my faults and issues, I still think I deserve to be treated with love and respect.

 

To give some examples:

Sometimes I am trying to reason or communicate with him, or calm him down, or express the fact I am scared things aren't quite right between us still, and he is just so tense with me now, he simply yells "Just shut the f--k up. Just f--k off and don't even think of touching me". If I give him a bit of time, and then ask if we can talk calmly, he'll say something like "What are you- a moron?" or "you stupid idiot" or "you ridiculous woman", or "grow up and grow a f--king brain". If I persist, he'll continue swearing at me or just go to another room (if I make the dreaded mistake of following him, he'll simply push me away and shut the door). Tonight I asked him to speak to me in a lower voice and with some respect, and he said, "just put up what you want to say, or shut up". I said I wouldn't go on with him in that mood, and he said, "good just dont talk to me, I am sick of your rot. You make the mistake of thinking I care about your feelings right now. Why are you even still here with me? We can't even talk like normal people. I am not happy".

 

When things go off track, he often makes generalised statements about how we suck as a couple, then when they are back on track, he is all loving and joking about when he might propose to me (we bought a ring ages ago) and how he still knows I am the one for him. I know he finds my issues hard to take, who wouldn't? But I find his volatility and temper hard to take too.

 

I said I was still here because I love him and he loves me, and because I want us to go forward as a team, and because these outbursts don't happen all the time, and I feel they will get less, as I get better and better. But I also said, he needs to make an effort too. His love and support has been there, but I really do still need it now. Am I asking too much? Is his behaviour justified? I love this man more than I have ever loved anyone. Do I just hang in and what for things to settle,and take the sh-t as it comes, and try and not let it get to me too much? Do I just focus on being a better partner to him? Whats the best way of handling this, and when should I stand up, and when should I back down?

 

 

PS it's now 2am here, and he's asleep and I'm sitting here typing this, cos I needed to vent and calm down!

[dyermaker]

I'd like to tell you that this is totally normal, and that everything will be okay, and that you should just calm down and quit whining. However, in my opinion, this is a huge deal. Lack of communication is a huge problem in a relationship. You need to make it clear that you need to be treated with dignity and respect, no matter how frustrated he gets at you. Ignoring something doesn't make it better, this is one thing that should be addressed together.

[cdn]

I have an uncharacteristically strong reaction to your post.

 

1. I believe his attacks are abusive; and

2. They reflect that he has lost respect for you; and

3. I believe they will become more frequent, not less so

 

At a minimum, I urge you to discuss his behavior with your counselor as I do not believe it bodes well for your future with this man.

[Thinkalot]

Thanks dyermaker for responding so quickly. I do know it cannot be ignored. I am scared of pushing him on this, when he has put up with my issues and I can understand that I have driven him to this point. I am scared of losing him If I take a tough stance.Because he is tired of drama in our relationship.

 

But I guess your right. Swearing and name calling is probably never really OK. I have not told my parents or friends what happens when we fight, because I don't want them to think less of him, and also because they all know that I am the one who has had the problems and triggers a lot of the arguments with my carry on. So Ifeel like I don't have much of a leg to stand on anymore.

 

This is one place I can be honest and try and gain objectivity on this.

[Thinkalot]

Yep. it's now 3am. Cant sleep. I just read my post and wanted to clarify, that the swearing and outbursts usually come after I have been nagging, questioning or we have been arguing, and do not normally just come out of the blue. But it's where things end up. And once they cross that line, there is usually little I can do to reason with him or talk. He will ask me to stop and yell or whatever, and if I try to talk on its a big mistake. I just need to give him lots of space. I know lots of men react that way. If I don't, he will start the swearing and name calling.

 

There are some occassions where we will be talking calmly and he will just snap (as tonight in the car on our way home from dinner), or go off at me. But this is not the norm. I am trying to be as objective here as possible, so you can all answer based on the facts and not an account biased in my favour.

[moimeme]

Think of a stressed marriage as being like a volcano. There is a lot of fury bubbling beneath the surface. It stays quiet for a while, but the slightest fissure or rupture will make it blow. Unfortunately, the closer the time between eruptions, the stronger the eruption.

 

Somehow, some way, you have to manage to NOT bug each other AT ALL for at least a couple of weeks. You need to let the still-hot issues to have time to cool down. Because you have some conflict almost every day (it sounds like), it never has time to do so.

 

I know this from the side of the angry human. There was a point in the last relationship when I was a walking ball of fury. The slightest thing would set me off and I'd not even recognize myself, so angry was I. I later found out that that situation was VERY common to partners of men with AD/HD. Part of it is that their troublesome behaviours sometimes are constant so you never get a chance to fully cool down from the last episode.

 

Fortunately, at one point, he had to leave town for a three-week trip. By the time he got back, I had been able to cool down enough to analyze myself (because I really did not recognize the person I had become and I was hugely distressed by the new, cranky miserable me) and I figured out this 'volcano' effect and how it worked. You get into a spiral of constant anger that feeds itself. I suppose the neurotransmitters never get a chance to normalize because of the constant stress. Once I had a chance to let the underlying layers of lava cool down, I learned to recognize when situations could start to build it up again and I'd find ways to get away and self-soothe before the anger took hold.

 

Now, he's probably not in any state for you to propose this to him, and please forget about which of you 'should' do what. Sometimes one of the partners does take on more of the work of mending the relationship. Nobody lives by books and rules - perfectly good relationships crash and burn because people stick to stupid principles. In this case, it's not valid. Your husband is caught in the spiral of anger. Since it has been your somewhat-less-than-rational behaviour that has been so frustrating to him, you will have to somehow manage to cease doing it long enough for his anger levels to drop.

 

He will also be upset by how angry he is now getting. He also knows he 'should' be loving and supportive, and, doubtless, wonders why he can't do it. It's the trap that anger drags you into. Understand that this volcano thing is like depression; it's a set of feelings that grabs you despite yourself. You may wish, badly, to control it but it's got you.

 

Do NOT chase him around when he's angry. If he asks you to quit fighting, do it. Anger only begets anger, and trying to make points about who's being unreasonable while people are angry is pointless.

 

So even though you think he should be more loving and understanding, and even though a stack of LSers will tell you he's a rat, believe me when I say that he's probably as upset about this as you. The difference is now you know what's going on so you now have the power to stop it. You HAVE to stop yourself from bugging him for at least two weeks to let him cool down. If you have to take a shower or go for a run or take the car to the store, every time your urge to bug him hits you, get away. Buy a balaclava and put it over your head. Do SOMETHING!

 

If you can just manage to do this, you will find that his anger levels will go back to the levels they used to be - not that that means you can turn back into neurotic woman, but he'll be able to tolerate the occasional transgression.

[Thinkalot]

Thank you for the insight moimeme. I will try very hard to do so.

[cdn]

I just read my post and wanted to clarify, that the swearing and outbursts usually come after I have been nagging, questioning or we have been arguing, and do not normally just come out of the blue.

 

This is typical of the abuse syndrome: the abused believes it is her fault and that the abuser is a good person who is driven to his actions by her faults. Oftentimes the abuser takes advantage of this line of thinking, by also claiming that his bad behavior is triggered by the abused's actions. "If only you wouldn't do [fill in the blank], I wouldn't [fill in the other blank.]" This is a nasty way of making you feel that the blame for both your behavior and his rests on your shoulders. It doesn't. He is responsible for his behavior.

 

No matter how much you nag or question, you should not be spoken to this way. It is one thing for your bf to say, angrily even, that he is tired of the conversation and to leave him alone, and quite another for him to deliberately ridicule and belittle you. He knows that doing so will only send you further into the spiral you are struggling to get out of. I wonder whether he truly wants you to get over your hang-ups.

 

Have you discussed this with your psychologist?

[moimeme]

I know it'll be rough. Believe me, being stuck in that anger cycle is a miserable, wretched way to feel so you're not the only one suffering. If you can manage it, you'll both feel lots better.

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by cdn

 

Have you discussed this with your psychologist?

 

No. I've told him my bf is very frustrated and gets angry, but I have not mentioned the things which get said. I have been focussing on what I need to fix in myself I guess and working on that.

 

Tonight we went out for dinner, and I certainly did not INTEND to bug him. I just started asking questions about something in his past, almost out of habit I guess. He started answering so I guess I didnt think there was a problem. Then he just flipped out and told me I'm not trying hard enough and shouldn't be discussing his past (as we've agreed). He went off to the toilet and that's when he told me to grow up and grow a brain. I can see where moimeme is coming from. I can see he is in no state, after all these months of putting up with me, to take more of the same. I guess I just wish (as I tried to tell him tonight) that he was able to support me and maybe gently say "hey- quit this subject..lets move onto something safer". But you know, I probably wouldn't have the patience for that if the situation was reversed! So I try to understand his frustration.

 

And I have also told him that his threats to leave and comments about not being happy, which he makes when he is angry, make it harder for me to regain my sense of security in this relationship. Sometimes it feels like a Catch 22 in that sense. I simply have to be secure, even if at the moment I don't feel the same level of intense love and care from him all the time. I do believe he wants me to get over my issues though. I think he does have a good heart.

[cdn]

I think you should mention this to your psychologist and listen to what he or she has to say. The fact that you are hiding your bf's behavior from your family and friends is also very suggestive of an abusive pattern and I am concerned that your desire to believe he has a good heart may be clouding the truth. If nothing else, after speaking with your psychologist you can come back and tell me that I am wrong, whcih would make me quite happy.

 

Wishing you well.

[Thinkalot]

I will do that, thanks cdn for your advice. I suppose I should probably try and get some sleep and shut my thinkalot brain down for a while!!

[Thinkalot]

PS. Why is it that men, as a rule, find it so much easier to switch off from an argument, and go to sleep, than women?

[moimeme]

Pah. This isn't 'abuse'. It's situational. There's a book about ADD in which one chapter is entitled 'I bet I can make you scream, throw things, or hit me'.

 

The spouses of ADDers are always being told they have 'anger problems' by the ADDers - even if they have never been angry in their lives before. It is not a sign of abuse; it's a sign of a situation which is untenable where someone is reaching their stress limits.

 

Basically, people are not out of line to get frustrated at a constant, repetitive, extremely frustrating situation. It's one thing to blow up at every small incident; quite another to be in a state of constant anger. The former IS abusive. The latter is what happens in extreme situations. I attended a workshp for people who are caretakers of others - the most common problem was the anger that caretakers have at the sick people they deal with. Is it fair? No. Is it reasonable? Well, yes and no. Yes because humans' limits to tolerance exist for a reason but no because people do say things they regret.

 

If you mention this to the shrink, do so to ask for more strategies to stop annoying him. You yourself said your agreement was that you would not do it - but you still do it. Why? His inability to get control of himself now parallels yours. Again, this is NOT the same as the anger of an abusive person. I also lived with one of them and spent a good deal of time learning about abusive situations. This is NOT that.

 

I just started asking questions about something in his past, almost out of habit I guess. He started answering so I guess I didnt think there was a problem

 

SIGH

[jenny]

i should say at the onset that i don't know your entire situation, thinkalot. there may be many factors which would mitigate the information written in this post, so take this as a limited response to the post here.

 

i have worked a lot of adult female victims of domestic abuse, and i have to say that cdn is bang on. about 60% of the women who contact us are experiencing just the beginnings of abuse; the ones who are enmeshed in it don't call as often because they have grown to accept their lives; they think they deserve it.

name calling, a culture of fear, being afraid to talk about your problems - and not being able to depend on a consistent or rational response that will not involve rage are all pretty good indications something is pretty wrong. the things he is saying are textbook signs of a power imbalance that is degrading and indicative escalating abuse.

 

most of us will not get into a car with someone that volatile; but we don't think twice about getting into a relationship with him. your story sounds very familiar, thinkalot, and it breaks my heart that you are trying to make this into your problem.

 

i don't know him, i don't know what diseases he may or may not have. in a way, that's not your problem. you have quite a large problem, however, in that right now you sound as though you are growing into a codependent and very vulnerable position.

 

re-read your post even again - it's very touching. is this what you wanted from your life? do you really think you deserve this? you have been working on your problems; if he isn't putting in the effort to get help for his problems, maybe he is not worth it.

 

when do you get to feel angry about this?

 

what's happening to you here is not normal, it is not manageable, and it will get worse. it is not acceptable.

 

so certainly talk about this with a professional. call a few, and tell them everything you have said in this post. and just check out some sites and books on domestic abuse - what is going on here is NOT your fault. you can still walk away from this man and start a life without being afraid.

 

i think this one is beyond the scope of the forum, actually. please take care, and get help,

[moimeme]

Since this is a new behaviour, and since it comes up when you do repeatedly that which you have agreed to not do, I'd not leap to a diagnosis of 'abuse' that prematurely. Get your primary problem solved, and then see if any untoward instances of anger take place. THEN you can start worrying about 'abuse'.

[Thinkalot]

Hi Jenny...thanks for taking the time to respond. I am awake again now!

 

I hear what tou are saying, and yet what moimeme wrote in the response just before yours seems to ring true. I do feel my issues have caused this. He says he has never been this angry before in his life and cant sometimes even recognise himself- that my frustrating behaviour brings this out in him! When he is calm, after such a volatile argument, he says it disturbs him a lot too. He just has no more tolerance. He's only human I guess after all.

 

I agree he still needs to take responsibility for his anger and I can't always be held accountable. That is something I am trying to make him see too, that this cannot go on, or keep happening the next time he loses it with me, or I stuff up. I have told him it seems wrong, and that respect goes out the window sometimes. But he says if I respected HIM I would learn to control myself and NOT GO ON. I carry on like a neurotic woman. It annoys even me.

 

I am hoping that maybe moimeme's theory of a couple of weeks of calm will help soothe the anger and frustration down.

 

Any yes, moimeme...you may sigh. I hear you. I am sighing too, but I am truly trying to improve here, and much of the time I am a lot more in control than I was.

 

The sad thing for me, is that I hate seeing this ugly side of him, and sometimes it's hard to keep loving him as openly and strongly myself. I am trying so hard, and yet, no matter what the cause, it is hard to be spoken to in this manner at all. It makes me feel so awful at the time. I then of course, guilty and angry and sad all at once.

[moimeme]

Thinkalot

 

I'm sighing because I've felt it from his side but I also understand it from yours. I witnessed how impulses seemed to control the ex. In fact, for a long time, I had 'impulse is stronger than love' on a sign in front of my on my desk to help me understand that he really could not stop himself from doing the things that bugged me. And I HATED the fact that, even though I KNEW he wasn't doing it on purpose and really could not stop himself, it still bugged me

 

I still feel like a failure for not being able to shut the anger off completely. It's like the caregivers I mentioned - if you want to feel like a complete rat, get mad at someone for doing something they can't help.

[jenny]

ok, fair enough. i think you both know the story much better than i do.

 

just a heads up. this is very frightening and destructive mode of thought:

 

I do feel my issues have caused this. He says he has never been this angry before in his life and cant sometimes even recognise himself- that my frustrating behaviour brings this out in him

[Thinkalot]

Thanks for responding again. I am now reading through this WITH my man, in a bid to have clear communication on this. We are both calmly looking.

 

Moimeme, he says the feelings you describe having gone through in the past, is EXACTLY how he is feeling!

 

We are going to have a talk about how to handle things.

[meanon]

So sorry to hear you have been having a bad time of it. To me, whilst I understand the pressures you are both under and how they effect the relationship, your positions are in no way the similar. You have acknowledged and taken responsibility for your problem. You are on medication/receiving counselling and you are trying really hard. He is under pressure but is not ill and has to take responsibility for the way he is behaving - not pass it on to you. The fact that he is finding this illness difficult to tolerate explains why he is responding the way he is (he is not evil) but in no way justifies it. Be clear - you will try your hardest to avoid being neurotic. If you are it is because it is outside of your control and because you are ill and you expect him to tell you how it makes him feel in a reasonable way.

 

I have had some experience of a bf behaving in a very aggressive manner during arguments (not swearing at me but kicking chairs/walls, thumping tables - whatever inanimate object happened to be around). You need to to convince him that you will not put up with it under ANY circumstances - and if he won't listen then actions speak louder than words. By all means be supportive (he generally has been of you with your problems) but the bottom line is it must stop or it will escalate.

 

Please let us know how you are getting on - hopefully seeing the thread will have been the wake up call he needs.

[midori]

Hi Thinkalot,

 

I think you've received some excellent advice from moimeme and the others. Coming from a perspective completely uninformed by clinical psychology, I have an inkling of an idea and I wonder if it might be useful to you. It's basically an extension of what moimeme suggested about cooling it for 2 weeks or so. Could you manage to set a strict and absolute rule for yourself to never, never, never probe, query, or delve into your boyfriend's past? Make it an absolute no-go zone for yourself, since you know it's a problem for you, and it creates problems with your boyfriend.

 

As I say, I have no experience with psychopathology or the treatment thereof, but it sounds to me like your obsessive thinking is akin to a smoker's addiction to cigarettes. A smoker who's trying to quit can't just have "one or two" while out at a bar or a party. There's no safe amount that they can have without taking the huge risk of tumbling back into the habit. It sounds like that's what you're like: you thought you were having an innocent, non-neurotic conversation in which you asked your bf questions about his past. I can't know if you're correct in your assessment that the questions were innocuous, but obviously your bf reacted as if they weren't. Moimeme's suggestion to cool it for a while might help to desensitize your bf a bit. But I can't help but wonder if you're also unable to accurately guage whether or not you're veering off into obsessive territory. If you stuck to a hard-and-fast rule that you will never ask your boyfriend questions about his past relationships -- not ever! -- then it seems possible at least that you would a) desensitize your boyfriend, and b) relieve yourself for the time being of the burden of knowing whether you're keeping your obsession in check. If you never indulge it, it's less likely to dominate you.

 

It's just a thought. Maybe a bad or unworkable idea. Just thought I'd put it out there.

 

PS: while I can sympathize with your boyfriend, I have to agree that his recent behavior does not sound healthy. He's got to get things straight in his own mind: either your issues are something he can cope with, or they're not. If he thinks he can't deal, at least some of the time, then he needs to admit that to himself and to you, and get out of the relationship. If he is determined to stay with you then he needs to step up to the task and not let your nuttiness get to him. He knows the score. He's either in or he's out. If he's in he needs to keep himself civil and supportive -- not because he's got nothing to complain about, but because his choice to stay carries with it an obligation to stay in a helpful, constructive way. If he can't meet that obligation, he has no business trying to be in a relationship with you.

[moimeme]

not let your nuttiness get to him

 

Midori, if I had a billion dollars, I'd give it to you if you could figure out how to do that. And I bet the ADD spouses would each give you a billion, too. I just do not think it is possible to understand until you have been in such a situation. It is SO simple to say 'don't let it get to you'. !!!!!!!! I searched anger sites, meditation sites, Buddhism, - you name it, I looked. So have other spouses of people with big issues - mental OR physical. What all the advisors say is that anger is a 'normal' reaction. They suggest a bunch of different self-care methods (get enough sleep, eat right, get time alone, etc. etc.) but nobody says that it is possible to 'not let it get to you'. I spent two years asking everyone I could find - including people here.

[midori]

I didn't say that Thinkalot shouldn't let it get to her. I suggested that she not act on her obsessive thoughts by voicing them to her boyfriend. It was a mere suggestion for Thinkalot to take or leave as she sees fit.

[moimeme]

I meant the part where you suggest her boyfriend 'not let the nuttiness get to him'. That's what I was talking about. It's not that easy