WS's and Regret after the Fog

[silktricks]

It is the term "the fog" I do not agree with, not as I have seen it explained in articles on BS sites. It disqualifies the possibility of the existence of true love in any extramarital relationship.

 

I can understand how you would dislike it under those circumstances. Of course there is truly love in some EMRs. To say otherwise would be flying in the face of reality, IMO. That does not, however, mean that ALL EMRs truly experience love.

 

I'm of two minds about the "fog" thing. If it means that what they perceive to be reality at the time - isn't - then I believe it exists - but not for all people. If it means what you said above, that it's impossible to truly have love in an EMR. That I would disagree with vehemently.

[anne1707]

It is the term "the fog" I do not agree with, not as I have seen it explained in articles on BS sites. It disqualifies the possibility of the existence of true love in any extramarital relationship.

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Surviving-Infidelity:-Understanding-the-Fog&id=569562

 

I just did a quick google and whilst the attached is only a small article, it does describe in some ways how the fog was for me. Fog certainly does not mean to me that there is no love - but it is a very mixed up set of emotions being experienced.

[crazycatlady]

This I agree with. I liked the way WalkInThePark expressed it:

 

 

 

 

 

It is the term "the fog" I do not agree with, not as I have seen it explained in articles on BS sites. It disqualifies the possibility of the existence of true love in any extramarital relationship.

 

I always thought it was more fog as in the ability to see when its foggy outside, thus my comments about how it withstands in the light of day. But having read on another site what they mean by fog, I can see Jennie's point in contention against the use of fog. It makes it sound like a drug induced high, and discounts that they are real for that time.

 

Maybe shadows is a better term. I know sometimes in the shadows something can look so different then when its in the full light. And sometimes its exactly what you think it is. But there is no certainty until its in the full light.

 

CCL

[crazycatlady]

http://ezinearticles.com/?Surviving-Infidelity:-Understanding-the-Fog&id=569562

 

I just did a quick google and whilst the attached is only a small article, it does describe in some ways how the fog was for me. Fog certainly does not mean to me that there is no love - but it is a very mixed up set of emotions being experienced.

 

Anne - you don't find that article to be rather condensending to you and other fWSes? I find the tone to be really distasteful and well juevenille sounding. Like the BS is a parent who knows better.

 

But that's just me.

 

CCL

[anne1707]

Anne - you don't find that article to be rather condensending to you and other fWSes? I find the tone to be really distasteful and well juevenille sounding. Like the BS is a parent who knows better.

 

But that's just me.

 

CCL

 

Agree with you on the BS thing. I was using it more as a way of describing the fog.

[seren]

I have asked H about the fog thing and he says that during the A he just had his head up his arse, didn't think about the consequences of what he was doing, didn't think about what or how it would affect me, us or OW, just that the A was an escape from the problems we were having. says it was a case of him not thinking about anyone but himself. I have told him it would have made it a lot easier for me if the A was about him feeling love for OW, as I could process the A better, but he says he cannot say that as it just wasn't true. I defend OW (as a principle not the person) when he is derogatory as it is harder to accept that he could want to see someone who he thought so little of.

 

No, I am not bitter at her, nor him - nor do I believe that all A's are about sex, love, BS being ugly, fat, not having sex etc etc or any other stereotype that are hung on A's. The only one that works for me is that the person that gained most in the A was my H. At the end of the A, both me and OW were hurt, so too was H, but he at least had some idea of what it all meant. We all three have our own take and experience of it, each different. Yes I have spoken with OW. Is that fog? denial? conflict avoidance? who knows, who the hell cares. It was what it was.

 

I have said in the past that a separate BS section is not a good idea, but just lately it seems that there is nowhere that newly discovered BS can post and get support. Don't you think a general discussion section for BS/OP is called for or am I missing the right section? I enjoy the discussions between BS/OP as they can offer insight, of course we will disagree as each has their own take on what the A meant, but in general they are balanced and without venom. But as a new BS I would feel that I had nowhere safe.

[crazycatlady]

I have asked H about the fog thing and he says that during the A he just had his head up his arse, didn't think about the consequences of what he was doing, didn't think about what or how it would affect me, us or OW, just that the A was an escape from the problems we were having. says it was a case of him not thinking about anyone but himself. I have told him it would have made it a lot easier for me if the A was about him feeling love for OW, as I could process the A better, but he says he cannot say that as it just wasn't true. I defend OW (as a principle not the person) when he is derogatory as it is harder to accept that he could want to see someone who he thought so little of.

 

No, I am not bitter at her, nor him - nor do I believe that all A's are about sex, love, BS being ugly, fat, not having sex etc etc or any other stereotype that are hung on A's. The only one that works for me is that the person that gained most in the A was my H. At the end of the A, both me and OW were hurt, so too was H, but he at least had some idea of what it all meant. We all three have our own take and experience of it, each different. Yes I have spoken with OW. Is that fog? denial? conflict avoidance? who knows, who the hell cares. It was what it was.

 

I have said in the past that a separate BS section is not a good idea, but just lately it seems that there is nowhere that newly discovered BS can post and get support. Don't you think a general discussion section for BS/OP is called for or am I missing the right section? I enjoy the discussions between BS/OP as they can offer insight, of course we will disagree as each has their own take on what the A meant, but in general they are balanced and without venom. But as a new BS I would feel that I had nowhere safe.[/QUOTE]

 

This is going to sound weird, but when I first found out, I did not feel comfortable on any BS infidelity board. I found the women there tended to be very bitter behaving, bitter advice etc. And that is not what I wanted. I posted first on the OW/OM board here because I did not feel comfortable posting here because the BSes come off as so anti-WS. Which I could understand, but did not feel comfortable to share my story. I did not reguard my spouse as evil. Stupid and selfish perhaps, but not evil.

 

Now in the few months I've been here, I no longer see most of the BSes here as bitter and angry but when I first came, I definately did.

 

Plus I think it still wouldn't be a "safe" place to post since everyone can post here on any board. But then, neither is the OW/OM board that "safe". And I think that is part of the appeal of this site.

 

CCL

[seren]

CCl - Yes, have to agree, I looked at OW/OM board after posting and must admit there is a crossover. When I first found out, some of the posts here would have hurt like hell and I visited SI and other sites, but like you found the OW bashing unhelpful, yet there were different sections depending on how far along you were. I like LS as it does offer different viewpoints, but still as a new BS would find it hard to read, not saying OW/OM don't have a rough ride too, but the label BS suggests the A is out in the open with all blinkers off, or the fog lifted (?!) and OW/OM when in the A. Now I am confusing myself and about 3 different threads all in the same place. Should have started a new thread, but it has already been discussed, so will admit to talking crap and stop T/J.

[pureinheart]

These questions are aimed at WS's but I'd welcome the experience of anybody with some Quasi direct or indirect knowledge on this. Personal experience would be an intersting read.

 

Have you, as a WS (or maybe a close friend of a WS) felt regret for straying from the M after the fog cleared?

 

For those with an answer to the above (especially if you were a WS), what did you regret specifically? Did you ever feel the need to reach out and tell your BS about those regrets, if any, or did you decide it was best to stay silent and move on?

 

A little background: i'm a BS (man) whose W started up an A with a coworker in January and has since started living there. It's a long story, lol.

 

Anyway I'm moving on without her quite nicely and I'm noticing that I'm begining to not care about her regret if and/or when she may feel that. I still wonder though, what is the WS's experience like AFTER the fog.

 

Can anyone share?

 

Hey CG...having been BS, WS and OW, I had no fog in any of the situations. Brain fog is the only thing I deal with ...lol A fog or R fog...no, I know what I want....

[pureinheart]

I will use two examples from my own life.

 

I fell deeply in love with another man while in a relationship with my first SO. I ended our relationship and started up with the OM. After a month I realized that he had severe alcohol problems. Eventually I returned to my SO and we had a happy year together before he turned seriously ill.

 

My OM remained my friend until his premature death at 35 caused by his alcoholism. He was still the man I had fallen in love with, there had been no "fog", but the additional information of him being an alcoholic had been missing.

 

A decade later during a break in my relationship with my second SO, I fell deeply in love with another man, a man who had been my aquaintance for years. We made out some, and there was attraction from both sides, but eventually he turned me down. In time I returned and continued the relationship with my SO.

 

After the rejection of this man I discovered the additional information that he was a womanizer, I had not know this previously. This severely altered my picture of him. It made me feel ashamed of having fallen in love with the obviously false picture I had initially had of him. And then having him reject me made me feel even more stupid.

 

So, whereas in the first example the love did not pass the test due to additional information this additional information did not alter my view of the OM, in the second example the additional information severely altered the way I percieved that man. He too wanted to remain my friend, I was no longer interested. He was not who I had thought he was.

 

I have never been ashamed or regretted giving the OM in the first example a chance. Had he not been an alcoholic, I am certain we would be living together to this day.

 

(((((Jennie))))) I am soooo sorry (bold)...man you and I could write a book.

[Owl]

I'd suggest that the "fog" simply means that the person who is "in the fog" is blind to the big picture, and is unable to think through things clearly.

 

And I'd suggest that during my wife's EA, this pretty clearly described what she was going through.

 

I'd also suggest that there's no way that we'll reach a consensus on this.

 

People currently IN an affair (in any capacity) will adamantly refuse to acknowledge the possibility of "the fog". I've seen it over and over again here on this site and other places.

 

It's almost considered axiomatic..."When you're IN the fog, you can't SEE the fog.".

 

You're so blinded by it that you simply cannot see what's CAUSING that blindness and confusion.

 

You can't see it until you're out of it.

 

Which is precisely why Anne can point it out (she's been through it and come out the other side) whereas others currently in an affair are adamantly against it.

 

I believe that its a form of emotional coping mechanism...people in an affair are totally focused on the affair and the small picture...it helps them avoid accepting responsibility for their actions and how they're hurting the people around them.

 

Once out of the affair, and time passes...they can look back and see the fog, and see the "bigger picture" that they couldn't at the time. That's also when they TRULY start to feel remorse and regret for their actions.

 

I'd also suggest that serial cheaters NEVER see the "fog". They never develop the ability to step back, see the big picture, see what they've done, and accept the responsibility for it. Therefore, they never "get out of the fog".

 

Just some things to consider.

[Spark1111]

Is that not the case for no matter what relationship in the beginning of it? The "fog" is not the monopoly of As! You don't know each other when you get to know each other. There are always illusions and projections in a new relationship and even in relationships which have lasted for a lot of years. I think it is human and the challenge is to get real with each other as much as possible.

Spoken about illusions: you once started a thread about your H mistress being certifiable. Are you sure that is an objective assessment? Is it for a moment possible to see this woman as a normal person who is only human? I don't think so. Your are also deluded about this person, who you always need to describe as some kind of nutcase.

 

There are always illusions and projections when falling in love: on this we agree.

 

What makes the secret affair more delusional is that every stolen moment feels like a second date: you are presenting your very best side to each other heightened by not knowing when the next moment can be stolen.

 

It is the perfect romantic back drop and can keep the passion alive for years.

 

Let's pay bills together; stay up all night with a vomiting child; clean out the garage; smell our bad breath; argue about the in-laws.

 

Ever happen in an affair? Rarely.

 

My husband projected so many wonderful qualities onto his OW. He assumed she felt remorseful; sorry she had hurt me; embarrassed for the affair.

 

Get it? These were his feelings projected onto her!

 

Nothing could have been farther from the truth.

 

And that discovery hurt him so much more than it hurt me. I didn't have to denigrate his OW to feel better about my marriage. I am not that type.

 

So I believe the fog does exist. It's a dopamine dance in the brains limbic system. It is pretty well documented.

[wheelwright]

The fog is just a retrospective reconstruction of feelings we had, once faced with stark choices.

 

Especially once we are forced to view our actions through BS's eyes. They are telling us we behaved badly, shamefully. Our identities are always reflected in the words and actions of those around us. If that is your BS, then you will feel bad about yourself.

 

However, I suspect that any love which is reasonably easily redirected into being termed fog, really didn't go that deep.

 

If the love went deep, and the WS feels they must reconstrue it as fog - practically, emotionally for reconnection to be possible, because circumstances have been brought to bear and they must for their sanity, - then heaven help those lonely people.

 

They no longer know what is true or not. Now that is fog.

[Steadfast]

I was certain my ex-wife's affair produced a fog. Seemingly, in just matter of weeks she changed. But the truth is, she allowed the changes to be seen. I think deep down I knew something was wrong, she would display occasional fits of anger and intense unhappiness, but not just towards me; our children were subjected to it too. Just normal things -like Saturday's joint house cleaning session- had her so angry at everyone that she would just disappear with no explanation why, leaving us to wonder what we did.

 

Know that normal life for us was very happy. Our bond was strong. Very.

 

It got worse until one terrible night, she confessed to her affair with a co-worker. She rambled...saying she'd 'ruined it' and that 'she didn't deserve me'. Six weeks later she 'temporarily' moved out, saying she needed 'time'. But one man turned into another, and another after that. Following the only plan I could, I let her go and filed. Our two teens stayed with me, even after she asked me to leave the house so she could live with them. There was no change in her. As the finalization of our divorce approached, I tried find out why. She 'loved me' but had lost her attraction. But it was more than that, obviously. She had changed into what she had previously hated. I didn't understand then, and still don't.

 

I thought we were building a life. She thought we were building a prison.

 

Now, two years later she seemingly has changed back. Her tone is different; she's using nicknames and displaying real regret for what has happened. She misses being a family and misses me. When things boil over she calls; crushed and devastated. She tells me no one is like me, and that she 'constantly' thinks about us, all the years thrown away, and how guilty she feels. For the record I am nice to her. I do not bother her and I do not punish or play games. I date. We've moved on. Without her.

 

Please don't assume she's kept away. She simply left and did not return.

 

One night, she called and when we met she simply crumbled. She told me she loved me. She kissed me. When I asked just what it was that she wanted, she said nothing. When I asked what she was thinking, she looked at me and said 'Don't get your hopes up. It isn't happening'. All true.

 

So, you tell me; is that a fog or is this woman in a permanent storm?

[jennie-jennie]

The fog is just a retrospective reconstruction of feelings we had, once faced with stark choices.

 

Especially once we are forced to view our actions through BS's eyes. They are telling us we behaved badly, shamefully. Our identities are always reflected in the words and actions of those around us. If that is your BS, then you will feel bad about yourself.

 

However, I suspect that any love which is reasonably easily redirected into being termed fog, really didn't go that deep.

 

If the love went deep, and the WS feels they must reconstrue it as fog - practically, emotionally for reconnection to be possible, because circumstances have been brought to bear and they must for their sanity, - then heaven help those lonely people.

 

They no longer know what is true or not. Now that is fog.

 

Love your post, Wheelwright!

[ConflictedGuy27]

I'd suggest that the "fog" simply means that the person who is "in the fog" is blind to the big picture, and is unable to think through things clearly.

 

And I'd suggest that during my wife's EA, this pretty clearly described what she was going through.

 

I'd also suggest that there's no way that we'll reach a consensus on this.

 

People currently IN an affair (in any capacity) will adamantly refuse to acknowledge the possibility of "the fog". I've seen it over and over again here on this site and other places.

 

It's almost considered axiomatic..."When you're IN the fog, you can't SEE the fog.".

 

You're so blinded by it that you simply cannot see what's CAUSING that blindness and confusion.

 

You can't see it until you're out of it.

 

Which is precisely why Anne can point it out (she's been through it and come out the other side) whereas others currently in an affair are adamantly against it.

 

I believe that its a form of emotional coping mechanism...people in an affair are totally focused on the affair and the small picture...it helps them avoid accepting responsibility for their actions and how they're hurting the people around them.

 

Once out of the affair, and time passes...they can look back and see the fog, and see the "bigger picture" that they couldn't at the time. That's also when they TRULY start to feel remorse and regret for their actions.

 

I'd also suggest that serial cheaters NEVER see the "fog". They never develop the ability to step back, see the big picture, see what they've done, and accept the responsibility for it. Therefore, they never "get out of the fog".

 

Just some things to consider.

 

Well put. This is certainly an explaination I can appreciate. Thank you, all of you, for taking this thread and running with it.

[ConflictedGuy27]

I was certain my ex-wife's affair produced a fog. Seemingly, in just matter of weeks she changed. But the truth is, she allowed the changes to be seen. I think deep down I knew something was wrong, she would display occasional fits of anger and intense unhappiness, but not just towards me; our children were subjected to it too. Just normal things -like Saturday's joint house cleaning session- had her so angry at everyone that she would just disappear with no explanation why, leaving us to wonder what we did.

 

Know that normal life for us was very happy. Our bond was strong. Very.

 

It got worse until one terrible night, she confessed to her affair with a co-worker. She rambled...saying she'd 'ruined it' and that 'she didn't deserve me'. Six weeks later she 'temporarily' moved out, saying she needed 'time'. But one man turned into another, and another after that. Following the only plan I could, I let her go and filed. Our two teens stayed with me, even after she asked me to leave the house so she could live with them. There was no change in her. As the finalization of our divorce approached, I tried find out why. She 'loved me' but had lost her attraction. But it was more than that, obviously. She had changed into what she had previously hated. I didn't understand then, and still don't.

 

I thought we were building a life. She thought we were building a prison.

 

Now, two years later she seemingly has changed back. Her tone is different; she's using nicknames and displaying real regret for what has happened. She misses being a family and misses me. When things boil over she calls; crushed and devastated. She tells me no one is like me, and that she 'constantly' thinks about us, all the years thrown away, and how guilty she feels. For the record I am nice to her. I do not bother her and I do not punish or play games. I date. We've moved on. Without her.

 

Please don't assume she's kept away. She simply left and did not return.

 

One night, she called and when we met she simply crumbled. She told me she loved me. She kissed me. When I asked just what it was that she wanted, she said nothing. When I asked what she was thinking, she looked at me and said 'Don't get your hopes up. It isn't happening'. All true.

 

So, you tell me; is that a fog or is this woman in a permanent storm?

 

Thanks for sharing this Steadfast.

You know my story. Now I see a piece of yours. Thanks for the input.

Amazing post.

[anne1707]

The fog is just a retrospective reconstruction of feelings we had, once faced with stark choices.

 

Especially once we are forced to view our actions through BS's eyes. They are telling us we behaved badly, shamefully. Our identities are always reflected in the words and actions of those around us. If that is your BS, then you will feel bad about yourself.

 

However, I suspect that any love which is reasonably easily redirected into being termed fog, really didn't go that deep.

 

If the love went deep, and the WS feels they must reconstrue it as fog - practically, emotionally for reconnection to be possible, because circumstances have been brought to bear and they must for their sanity, - then heaven help those lonely people.

 

They no longer know what is true or not. Now that is fog.

 

As someone who believes in the fog, I have to disagree. For me, the fog is not so much about the feelings. I know how I felt but as I have said before, out of respect for my H who posts on here, I will not go into those details on LS now. The fog however clouds and distorts the thoughts and subsequent actions. Everything becomes so much more complicated especially when attempts are being made (in the WS's head) to "justify" the affair. I have not "re-directed" how I felt about the ex-OM into fog but have realised how wrong I was in my judgements and actions and how that impacted not just on my H but also on the ex-OM.

[Owl]

As someone who believes in the fog, I have to disagree. For me, the fog is not so much about the feelings. I know how I felt but as I have said before, out of respect for my H who posts on here, I will not go into those details on LS now. The fog however clouds and distorts the thoughts and subsequent actions. Everything becomes so much more complicated especially when attempts are being made (in the WS's head) to "justify" the affair. I have not "re-directed" how I felt about the ex-OM into fog but have realised how wrong I was in my judgements and actions and how that impacted not just on my H but also on the ex-OM.

 

Excellent way to phrase this.

 

It sounds like someone who's drunk, and intends to drive home. They're always insistent that they're NOT impaired, that they're fully capable of driving home, when it's blatantly obvious to everyone ELSE that they're clearly not. They're looking at the situation from INSIDE the "fog".

 

Their own judgement is so impaired that they can't even realize that their judgement is impaired.

 

But once they're sober, they can look at their own behavior and realize just how skewed their judgement was.