WS's and Regret after the Fog

[jennie-jennie]

I also think it's interesting how so many posters that have reconciled are showing up with such relevant posts - but it makes sense.

 

Well it makes sense to me why the reconciled WSs and their BSs call it a FOG and the ones that are not call it LOVE. If the reconciled WSs called it LOVE then it would be harder to reconcile so minimising the feelings helps the BS and if the WS was dumped it makes them feel less hurt. And if the none reconciled WSs called it FOG or the one still in the relationship with the AP that would be demeaning their relationship with AP voila. But then again we are all different and feelings of love can be much stronger for some couples than others, no two being the same. Some people never feel that incredible love connection with another person, married or affair. When you feel it, you never want to let it go. But that would be like describing colours to a blind person.

 

And your point is????

 

You hit the nail on the head, Delirious. It is obvious that the posts that make sense to the BS, the reformed WS and reformed OW/OM are not the same posts that make sense to the unapologetic OW/OM and WS.

 

Great post! I really enjoy reading your posts lately!

Edited April 10, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[anne1707]

You hit the nail on the head, Delirious. It is obvious that the posts that make sense to the BS, the reformed WS and reformed OW/OM are not the same posts that make sense to the unapologetic OW/OM and WS.

 

Great post! I really enjoy reading your posts lately!

 

Well of course they would make sense to you because it is what you want to hear. It suits what you want to believe.

[jennie-jennie]

Well of course they would make sense to you because it is what you want to hear. It suits what you want to believe.

 

Just like your posts as a reformed WS are what the BS want to hear! They suit what they want to believe.

[anne1707]

Well if reformed means I live full time with the man I love then that sounds good to me

[MizzBlue72]

I can tell you, as a WS, my marriage was already in trouble. Early in in the A, I was going to IC and continued to talk to my therapist. I knew my marriage was over, I just did not want to face up to it. It was not over due to the A, an I did not leave because of the A. I left for me.

 

I discussed whether or not I should tell my BS with my therapist. She advised me to not tell him. Why? It would only hurt him ore than we already hurt, an the outcome was still going to be the same.

 

Yes - Fog. sorry - but there is a HUGE fog that happens when an A is going on. I am still together with my AP, and he is now in the middle of a D. Was it love? Yes, but you can NOT deny the beginning fog that takes over.

 

If I had been in the A and there was no love - would I have told BS? No. I still would not of told. NOT to save myself. It was hard enough ending a 10 yr marriage, let alone knowing that I would add MORE pain to xH. No way. Nothing he could have done would change the path we already started.

 

We did attempt MC - but it was futile. I was conflicted - foot already out the door. So was he. He chose to take another path prior to leaving. Was it a physical affair? No - but he made a decision that did not include me our our child.

 

I would only tell the BS if I truly intended on making the M work. And only if the A was over.

[jennie-jennie]

Yes - Fog. sorry - but there is a HUGE fog that happens when an A is going on. I am still together with my AP, and he is now in the middle of a D. Was it love? Yes, but you can NOT deny the beginning fog that takes over.

 

MizzBlue, you are confusing "fog" with the hormonal high in the beginning state of every relationship.

[anne1707]

Oops, I thought we did not need the dictionary!

 

▸ adjective: caused to abandon an evil manner of living and follow a good one ("A reformed drunkard")

 

(OneLook Dictionary Search)

 

 

Sigh....

 

As per Merriam Webster.... again.....

 

Main Entry: re·formed

Pronunciation: \ri-ˈfȯrmd\

Function: adjective

Date: 1563

1 : changed for the better

2 capitalized : protestant; specifically : of or relating to the chiefly Calvinist Protestant churches formed in various continental European countries

 

 

Now can we get back to the thread - this is neither the Reformed OW or the Unapologetic MM thread.

[jennie-jennie]

Now can we get back to the thread - this is neither the Reformed OW or the Unapologetic MM thread.

 

This is on topic, because there are different opinions whether or not there exists such a phenomenon as "the fog". The reformed WS/OW believe there is, the unapologetic do not.

[Passion4Life]

Well it makes sense to me why the reconciled WSs and their BSs call it a FOG and the ones that are not call it LOVE. If the reconciled WSs called it LOVE then it would be harder to reconcile so minimising the feelings helps the BS and if the WS was dumped it makes them feel less hurt. And if the none reconciled WSs called it FOG or the one still in the relationship with the AP that would be demeaning their relationship with AP voila. But then again we are all different and feelings of love can be much stronger for some couples than others, no two being the same. Some people never feel that incredible love connection with another person, married or affair. When you feel it, you never want to let it go. But that would be like describing colours to a blind person.

 

ok I am assuming u are not blind & have experienced that love right ?

so how frequently that incredible love & connection happens to u ? is it once a week or every time u go to a bar or

party , or every time u find someone better than ur current partner ?

I am asking u because I have seen people who claim to feel this incredible love & connection very very often .

[Passion4Life]

I can tell you, as a WS, my marriage was already in trouble. Early in in the A, I was going to IC and continued to talk to my therapist. I knew my marriage was over, I just did not want to face up to it. It was not over due to the A, an I did not leave because of the A. I left for me.

 

I discussed whether or not I should tell my BS with my therapist. She advised me to not tell him. Why? It would only hurt him ore than we already hurt, an the outcome was still going to be the same.

 

Yes - Fog. sorry - but there is a HUGE fog that happens when an A is going on. I am still together with my AP, and he is now in the middle of a D. Was it love? Yes, but you can NOT deny the beginning fog that takes over.

 

If I had been in the A and there was no love - would I have told BS? No. I still would not of told. NOT to save myself. It was hard enough ending a 10 yr marriage, let alone knowing that I would add MORE pain to xH. No way. Nothing he could have done would change the path we already started.

 

We did attempt MC - but it was futile. I was conflicted - foot already out the door. So was he. He chose to take another path prior to leaving. Was it a physical affair? No - but he made a decision that did not include me our our child.

 

I would only tell the BS if I truly intended on making the M work. And only if the A was over.

 

It was hard enough ending a 10 yr marriage let alone knowing that I would add MORE pain to xH.

 

MizzBlue , pls dont take it otherwise but just want to know why was it hard to end ur marriage when u had fallen in love with ur mm , & as u said u didn't want to make the M work , If I were at your place I dont see any reason why It will be hard for me , for my partner yes It will definately be because she doesn't have some one waiting for her

Edited April 10, 2010 by Passion4Life

[fooled once]

Interesting. So let me see if I understand this...the only way the 'fog' clears is if the WS is somehow rejected by their AP? The WS can't come to a realization on their own? That maybe they want to remain in their marriage, or that the affair/AP wasn't right for them?

 

If WS are as lost as described here...are rejected by their AP, have to convince themselves to remain with their H/W, well then I guess all WS are lost souls. I feel sorry for them.

 

Of course, the affair would be entirely the fault of the BS.

 

Nothing the BS does makes an affair possible--it is the action of the WS that causes the affair.

 

I actually do take a lot of responsibility for the failure of my pre-affair marriage. Yes, my marriage did fail and my H had an A. However, his decision to behave so dishonorably was his failure, not mine. If he found our marriage unbearable, he should have told me this and we could have decided what to do next, i.e. divorce.

 

 

I believe that a cheater who decides he is regretful of his affair and wants his marriage was in a fog. Doesn't mean he didn't love his mistress/OW, just that he realized he loved his wife more. Realized he made a mistake.

 

Why also was someone seeming to blame the betrayed spouse for the other spouse cheating? How is that relevant and unless that person was in the marriage with the cheater and the betrayed spouse, how do they know what was going on?

 

Anne1707, your posts and experience was very eye opening to me. You have awaken from the fog and realized what was most important to you.

 

I commend you for ending the affair and reuniting with your husband and working on your marriage and working through the issues.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. Very powerful. I actually believe there are many former 'cheaters' who feel like you do and instead of telling their mistress that they choose their wife, they make excuses such as staying for the kids, not believing in divorce, etc. The mistress then believes if not for the wife, they would be with the cheater; when in reality, that isn't true in many cases.

 

Interesting thread.

[crazycatlady]

This is on topic, because there are different opinions whether or not there exists such a phenomenon as "the fog". The reformed WS/OW believe there is, the unapologetic do not.

 

I think you can be unapologetic and still have had a fog. I think the feelings can be real but you don't actually truly see the person for who and what they are until the affair is in the light of day.

 

My H is unapologetic about loving her - he has apologized and is sorry for hurting me and wishes it never had happened because at d-day he loved us both but he wasn't giving her up. But now that she is refusing to even talk to me and him now that its out in and in the open (well him since he told her that I wanted to talk to her, and he felt she should do it), he's really starting to see her. And the negative side of her where before there was a fog covering it.

 

I probably would have been willing to try and work something out for all of us if she had just been willing to talk to me. But she isn't, she won't. I asked H the other day what happens in two months when she thinks its blown over and she tries to restart things - or two years or ten years - and he told me that what he felt for her is being killed by her reaction to d-day. He's losing a lot of respect for her and is starting to wonder why she did enter the affair with him. Its always interesting what the light of day can bring.

 

BUT also, why can't it be possible for both to be true? Why must one side be wrong and one side be right? In this situation both sides can be right.

 

I still don't think though that you can be totally certain of lack of fog if there is no light of day.

 

CCL

[jennie-jennie]

I think you can be unapologetic and still have had a fog. I think the feelings can be real but you don't actually truly see the person for who and what they are until the affair is in the light of day.

 

My H is unapologetic about loving her - he has apologized and is sorry for hurting me and wishes it never had happened because at d-day he loved us both but he wasn't giving her up. But now that she is refusing to even talk to me and him now that its out in and in the open (well him since he told her that I wanted to talk to her, and he felt she should do it), he's really starting to see her. And the negative side of her where before there was a fog covering it.

 

I probably would have been willing to try and work something out for all of us if she had just been willing to talk to me. But she isn't, she won't. I asked H the other day what happens in two months when she thinks its blown over and she tries to restart things - or two years or ten years - and he told me that what he felt for her is being killed by her reaction to d-day. He's losing a lot of respect for her and is starting to wonder why she did enter the affair with him. Its always interesting what the light of day can bring.

 

BUT also, why can't it be possible for both to be true? Why must one side be wrong and one side be right? In this situation both sides can be right.

 

I still don't think though that you can be totally certain of lack of fog if there is no light of day.

 

CCL

 

I agree that the light of day brings additional and what might very well prove to be invaluable information which might alter the way the two people in an extramarital relationship see each other.

 

When two people fall in love, their love is always put through tests. Sometimes the love passes these tests, sometimes not. The love in the extramarital relationship needs to pass the additional test of the light of day.

 

I think the feelings can be real but you don't actually truly see the person for who and what they are until the affair is in the light of day.

 

I agree with this. I would not call it "the fog" however, because I think that term as it is used by BSs and reformed WS/OP means so much more.

 

I also believe that some time needs to pass post Dday, because Dday causes such a turbulence it hides the true nature of emotions.

[jennie-jennie]

These questions are aimed at WS's but I'd welcome the experience of anybody with some Quasi direct or indirect knowledge on this. Personal experience would be an intersting read.

 

Have you, as a WS (or maybe a close friend of a WS) felt regret for straying from the M after the fog cleared?

 

For those with an answer to the above (especially if you were a WS), what did you regret specifically? Did you ever feel the need to reach out and tell your BS about those regrets, if any, or did you decide it was best to stay silent and move on?

 

A little background: i'm a BS (man) whose W started up an A with a coworker in January and has since started living there. It's a long story, lol.

 

Anyway I'm moving on without her quite nicely and I'm noticing that I'm begining to not care about her regret if and/or when she may feel that. I still wonder though, what is the WS's experience like AFTER the fog.

 

Can anyone share?

 

I will use two examples from my own life.

 

I fell deeply in love with another man while in a relationship with my first SO. I ended our relationship and started up with the OM. After a month I realized that he had severe alcohol problems. Eventually I returned to my SO and we had a happy year together before he turned seriously ill.

 

My OM remained my friend until his premature death at 35 caused by his alcoholism. He was still the man I had fallen in love with, there had been no "fog", but the additional information of him being an alcoholic had been missing.

 

A decade later during a break in my relationship with my second SO, I fell deeply in love with another man, a man who had been my aquaintance for years. We made out some, and there was attraction from both sides, but eventually he turned me down. In time I returned and continued the relationship with my SO.

 

After the rejection of this man I discovered the additional information that he was a womanizer, I had not know this previously. This severely altered my picture of him. It made me feel ashamed of having fallen in love with the obviously false picture I had initially had of him. And then having him reject me made me feel even more stupid.

 

So, whereas in the first example the love did not pass the test due to additional information this additional information did not alter my view of the OM, in the second example the additional information severely altered the way I percieved that man. He too wanted to remain my friend, I was no longer interested. He was not who I had thought he was.

 

I have never been ashamed or regretted giving the OM in the first example a chance. Had he not been an alcoholic, I am certain we would be living together to this day.

Edited April 11, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[delirious]

Well if reformed means I live full time with the man I love then that sounds good to me

 

AND you are so happy, and so reformed, then there is no need for you to be here then?? Seems every post from an OW hits a nerve with you Anne. The lady doth protest too much.

[anne1707]

AND you are so happy, and so reformed, then there is no need for you to be here then?? Seems every post from an OW hits a nerve with you Anne. The lady doth protest too much.

 

You have me so very, very wrong. LS helped me at my lowest point and I just hope I can help anyone in return. If you actually read my posts, you will see that if I bash anybody in an affair it is the WS as they are most likely lying to two people. I know I did.

 

I also do not like the term "reformed". I only used it here in response to something Jennie Jennie said. I feel as if some use that word in a derogatory manner which I do not like and find disrespectful.

[delirious]

You have me so very, very wrong. LS helped me at my lowest point and I just hope I can help anyone in return. If you actually read my posts, you will see that if I bash anybody in an affair it is the WS as they are most likely lying to two people. I know I did.

 

I also do not like the term "reformed". I only used it here in response to something Jennie Jennie said. I feel as if some use that word in a derogatory manner which I do not like and find disrespectful.

 

I doubt anyone on here is that altruistic Anne. We are all battling our demons, we are helping others whilst helping ourselves, if we are totally honest.

 

I am sorry you do not like the term reformed, we get called cheaters and liars constantly, the term reformed pales into insignificance. I am sure JJ did not mean to disrespect you at all by referring to you as this.

[anne1707]

I doubt anyone on here is that altruistic Anne. We are all battling our demons, we are helping others whilst helping ourselves, if we are totally honest.

 

I am sorry you do not like the term reformed, we get called cheaters and liars constantly, the term reformed pales into insignificance. I am sure JJ did not mean to disrespect you at all by referring to you as this.

 

There are many people on LS who post for the same reasons as me - and not just in the infidelity/OW forums. I am no more altruistic than most people. Pretty much everybody comes here because they have a problem. Hopefully that gets resolved and then some will disappear however others remain because they enjoy the site and being able to help others just as they were helped originally.

 

Regarding the name calling, you should see some of the things I have been called in the past when I started posting here. But you get rough with smooth on LS.

 

As for suggesting that I thought Jennie Jennie was disrespecting me then yet again you are very wrong. There were some posts in the Reformed OW thread which I thought were inappropriate and that was what I was referring to.

[lolapalooza]

I'm sorry, please forgive me. The OP was asking about whether a WS ever felt regret after the A was over. Could you please clarify how your post below relates to that? Thanks in advance.

I will use two examples from my own life.

 

I fell deeply in love with another man while in a relationship with my first SO. I ended our relationship and started up with the OM. After a month I realized that he had severe alcohol problems. Eventually I returned to my SO and we had a happy year together before he turned seriously ill.

 

My OM remained my friend until his premature death at 35 caused by his alcoholism. He was still the man I had fallen in love with, there had been no "fog", but the additional information of him being an alcoholic had been missing.

 

A decade later during a break in my relationship with my second SO, I fell deeply in love with another man, a man who had been my aquaintance for years. We made out some, and there was attraction from both sides, but eventually he turned me down. In time I returned and continued the relationship with my SO.

 

After the rejection of this man I discovered the additional information that he was a womanizer, I had not know this previously. This severely altered my picture of him. It made me feel ashamed of having fallen in love with the obviously false picture I had initially had of him. And then having him reject me made me feel even more stupid.

 

So, whereas in the first example the love did not pass the test due to additional information this additional information did not alter my view of the OM, in the second example the additional information severely altered the way I percieved that man. He too wanted to remain my friend, I was no longer interested. He was not who I had thought he was.

 

I have never been ashamed or regretted giving the OM in the first example a chance. Had he not been an alcoholic, I am certain we would be living together to this day.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm sorry, please forgive me. The OP was asking about whether a WS ever felt regret after the A was over. Could you please clarify how your post below relates to that? Thanks in advance.

 

If you missed it, I was the WS in the first case described. In the second case, although it techniqually was not an affair, my SO and I were as involved as always, only not having sex. It was a break in the middle of a 25 year long relationship. We had one kid before, and got two after. It is not like I didn't have to account for this falling-in-love to my SO.

[lolapalooza]

If you missed it, I was the WS in the first case described. In the second case, although it techniqually was not an affair, my SO and I were as involved as always, only not having sex. It was a break in the middle of a 25 year long relationship. We had one kid before, and got two after. It is not like I didn't have to account for this falling-in-love to my SO.

One of us must be misunderstanding the OP then. I thought the OP was asking if there was any regret after the A. Your posts are not answering that question, so I guess I remain confused as to how your posts contribute to the thread.

Thanks anyway!

[jennie-jennie]

One of us must be misunderstanding the OP then. I thought the OP was asking if there was any regret after the A. Your posts are not answering that question, so I guess I remain confused as to how your posts contribute to the thread.

Thanks anyway!

 

I bolded the parts below which are direct answers to this question. Also the thread title is "WS's and Regret after the Fog", which has led to a discussion in this thread whether or not "the fog" is something that actually exists. My post was also a comment in that debate.

 

I will use two examples from my own life.

 

I fell deeply in love with another man while in a relationship with my first SO. I ended our relationship and started up with the OM. After a month I realized that he had severe alcohol problems. Eventually I returned to my SO and we had a happy year together before he turned seriously ill.

 

My OM remained my friend until his premature death at 35 caused by his alcoholism. He was still the man I had fallen in love with, there had been no "fog", but the additional information of him being an alcoholic had been missing.

 

A decade later during a break in my relationship with my second SO, I fell deeply in love with another man, a man who had been my aquaintance for years. We made out some, and there was attraction from both sides, but eventually he turned me down. In time I returned and continued the relationship with my SO.

 

After the rejection of this man I discovered the additional information that he was a womanizer, I had not know this previously. This severely altered my picture of him. It made me feel ashamed of having fallen in love with the obviously false picture I had initially had of him. And then having him reject me made me feel even more stupid.

 

So, whereas in the first example the love did not pass the test due to additional information this additional information did not alter my view of the OM, in the second example the additional information severely altered the way I percieved that man. He too wanted to remain my friend, I was no longer interested. He was not who I had thought he was.

 

I have never been ashamed or regretted giving the OM in the first example a chance. Had he not been an alcoholic, I am certain we would be living together to this day.

[WalkInThePark]

I believe he never really saw her for who she truly was; he just saw what he needed to see in her and that was the illusion of how wonderful she thought he was.

 

Is that not the case for no matter what relationship in the beginning of it? The "fog" is not the monopoly of As! You don't know each other when you get to know each other. There are always illusions and projections in a new relationship and even in relationships which have lasted for a lot of years. I think it is human and the challenge is to get real with each other as much as possible.

Spoken about illusions: you once started a thread about your H mistress being certifiable. Are you sure that is an objective assessment? Is it for a moment possible to see this woman as a normal person who is only human? I don't think so. Your are also deluded about this person, who you always need to describe as some kind of nutcase.

[silktricks]

This is on topic, because there are different opinions whether or not there exists such a phenomenon as "the fog". The reformed WS/OW believe there is, the unapologetic do not.

 

Must it be the same for everyone? Why can't it be accepted that some affairs there is not "love" - and some affairs there is? Why can't it be that some affairs the WS (and possibly AP) are in a "fog" - and some are not?

[jennie-jennie]

Must it be the same for everyone? Why can't it be accepted that some affairs there is not "love" - and some affairs there is?

This I agree with. I liked the way WalkInThePark expressed it:

 

Is that not the case for no matter what relationship in the beginning of it? ... You don't know each other when you get to know each other. There are always illusions and projections in a new relationship and even in relationships which have lasted for a lot of years. I think it is human and the challenge is to get real with each other as much as possible.

 

Why can't it be that some affairs the WS (and possibly AP) are in a "fog" - and some are not?

 

It is the term "the fog" I do not agree with, not as I have seen it explained in articles on BS sites. It disqualifies the possibility of the existence of true love in any extramarital relationship.

Edited April 11, 2010 by jennie-jennie