Bored of topics posted of late....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

here..... I hope you never lose your zest and love. However most don't have such a positive view here.

 

Me I am really one of the luckier ones. I came here ready to complain (and do) thinking I had a rocky, sexless marriage. I have come to realize that I am incredibly lucky, have a strong marriage (with the usual ups and downs), complain like the majority about the lack of sex and some monotony in the everyday stresses of life..... but it is a drop in the bucket compared to what I have read from others on this site.

 

Heck I have even had my spouse note I am a lot better about these things and credit LS for helping me reach that understanding.

 

I guess I never had that new relationship high (5X/day), so 3X/wk must seem like almost nothing;):laugh:...... I thought we had a good sex life at the beginning (or at least once I had some idea about what I was doing:love:)... Now not so sure. Point is that children affect people in different ways. Ours moreso then others, based on their sleep patterns and our parenting styles. Then look at Mem11363 and how his older children have now affected even his sex life....

 

Google sextistics and you will find a review or two. It was a lighthearted fun look at love and marriage..... As said there were some interesting points,such as putting a $ figure on sex and it's importance in a marriage. In addition it said there was a dip in the 30's attributed to stress/family...., which then increased in the late 40's....

 

The point at the end of the day is that I don't want to talk too much about my situation anymore as there are a lot of issues that contribute to what is, on both our parts. What I do know is my wife and I are really pretty happy, and sometimes I took things for granted until I read others' problems here on LS.

 

This does not mean there is not room for a great deal of improvement, just that I should be grateful for what I do have, not for what I think is lacking.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

G,

I am keenly aware that there are times when sex WOULD be the least important thing in the world to my wife save for the fact that she realizes it is critical to my happiness. So if she were to make it (sex) a very low priority for us as a couple than the message she would be sending me is that MY happiness is at the bottom of her priority list. And THAT is what is not acceptable. As I have said before, way more than half the time the focus is on her and her priorities and I am fine with that.

 

Sex has NOTHING to do with her prioritization of sex - and EVERYTHING to do with her prioritization of ME.

 

 

 

How come I don't even get to play ping pong?

 

Mem11363, regarding wives not "wanting" to please their men even if they love them... maybe it will come as a shock to you, but to some women sex is the least important thing in the world and it's at the bottom of the list... they get to the bottom of the list, eventually.... they tick it off and the cycle starts again... unfortunately, sometimes that list is very long...

[crazycatlady]

I want to come back to this....

 

Most people will have a boost in libido with a new partner. That's a fact.

 

But, that doesn't mean that LTR sex is doomed to be boring and robotic!

 

What LT partners sacrifice in terms of new relationship energy (that intense lust for a new partner that lasts for a few years), they ideally gain in trust, intimacy, body knowledge, openness, etc.

 

My H and I are in our 20th year together. We have a foundation of great chemistry for sure, and remember having sex 5x a day when dating . We are seemingly magnetically attracted to each other to this day.

 

Now, after decades and kids, we don't need it 5x a day. Would I want that with a new partner? Maybe! But I don't want that with him. What I need--and get--from him is the chance to deeply explore my sexuality. While we went at it like bunnies and tried lots of fun stuff in the early years, there is a different level of sexual energy present now. It's patient, knowing, and thorough. It's intense. Best analogy--it's as if my body and mind were an instrument he's been studying for years, and can now play in a manner that brings me to my knees (often literally ).

 

My reason for sharing...

 

I'm sure there are other women who have Lizzie's experience in a LTR, and other women who have my experience. What are the differences between the couples in each group? Is it something about the man? The woman? The relationship? What is the difference??

 

I think its the woman partly and the man partly.

 

We had times of 1x a week sex sometimes it went to 10 days. Because the sex was the routine, boring, and he wasn't very good at it. Even though previously he had been good. Or it could be my lower body changed after two kids - I tore with both fairly badly and the sitching after the first left me uncomfortable having sex for 8 months, I was ticked off, and the second time I tore upwards as well as down and that might have done something to (my second had a birth defect that prevented his head from molding to come out easier) .

 

Part of the problem was he never lasted much longer then getting in me. Sorry for the TMI, but when sex is infrequent (and that's infrequent for us) its harder to dely and maybe he wasn't trying as hard as he should have. But since it wasn't good for me and I always always had to finish myself afterwards, it really wasn't worth it.

 

I will admit I started talking to someone online about sex, really just complaining about it, and talking about some of my fantasies we don't get to do because it was all about my H's fetish and suddenly H is doing the very things I was talking to the other person about. I think he was snooping but he's always claimed he wasn't when I asked. But we started being more open with each other and sex started to improve. The talking was with someone distant, it was never affairish. But hey, it helped changed his attitude towards me sexually reminding him that I also have needs and not just him when it comes to things enjoyed sexually.

 

Now another part of why its changed is because I make it a priority. Even when I might not be into it, if he is I usually will unless I'm really not feeling up to it. To help me keep up my drive, I will think about sex more. I talk to my friends who are very similar to me in this drive. We think about it, talk about it, laugh about it. All of them are similar to me, mid 30s to mid 40s with pre-teen children and younger married at least 12 years to 20 years.

 

What's odd is we all tend to complain at times when we feel we aren't getting enough. One of my friends says her husband tells her she has ADD because he doesn't give her as much attention she craves (she's like me, daily is perfection).

 

I do have some other friends who are more into the sexless marriage. I think part of the difference is they will use sex as a weapon. You can't use sex as a weapon, or a bargining tool, or anything but for fun and loving the other person.

 

CCL

[Whateverelse]

To answer some of the criticisms of TDP that his numbers are made up, there is at least one study of this issue, which generally confirm his views. Its in a book that came out few years ago. Below is a summary of the book:

 

 

A marriage counselor for over 20 years, rabbi and author Gary Neuman conducted a two-year study involving 200 men -- 100 who cheated and 100 who remained faithful. His findings form the basis of his 2008 book The Truth About Cheating: Why Men Stray and What You Can Do To Prevent It. What Neuman learned [COLOR=#3366cc]defies most commonly-held beliefs[/COLOR] about why men cheat. Of the men surveyed:

• 92% say it's not just about sex
  
• 88% say the other woman isn't better looking or in better shape
  
• 55% don't tell their wives or deny cheating even when confronted with evidence
  
• 48% say cheating is about an emotional disconnection from their wives
  
• 12% would cheat no matter what
  

I personally think a lack of sex among cheating H's is symptomatic of relationships where cheating occurs, without necessarily being the real reason. Sometimes the wife's lack of sex creates the emotional distance that leads to cheating, and other times other factors have created an emotional distance that leads to one or both partners not being into sex anymore.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

To answer some of the criticisms of TDP that his numbers are made up, there is at least one study of this issue, which generally confirm his views. Its in a book that came out few years ago. Below is a summary of the book:

 

 

A marriage counselor for over 20 years, rabbi and author Gary Neuman conducted a two-year study involving 200 men -- 100 who cheated and 100 who remained faithful. His findings form the basis of his 2008 book The Truth About Cheating: Why Men Stray and What You Can Do To Prevent It. What Neuman learned [COLOR=#3366cc]defies most commonly-held beliefs[/COLOR] about why men cheat. Of the men surveyed:

• 92% say it's not just about sex
  
• 88% say the other woman isn't better looking or in better shape
  
• 55% don't tell their wives or deny cheating even when confronted with evidence
  
• 48% say cheating is about an emotional disconnection from their wives
  
• 12% would cheat no matter what
  

I personally think a lack of sex among cheating H's is symptomatic of relationships where cheating occurs, without necessarily being the real reason. Sometimes the wife's lack of sex creates the emotional distance that leads to cheating, and other times other factors have created an emotional distance that leads to one or both partners not being into sex anymore.

 

Again then it will be argued what came first.... The chicken or the egg..... i.e. the emotional disconnect or the lack of sex... What is always interesting on LS and this section (and why I moved the thread or the post from the OW/OM section) is that many here claim to have the emotional connection, just not the sex.

 

Lizzie60 our "Affairs Expert" only has one 26 yo, who claims to have plenty of sex at home, but is as I've said in that 10% who just is not monogamous and is frankly a self indulgent child, confirms my "made up" stats from her ever growing sample:p;) population.....

 

Anyone can claim "my wife doesn't understand me" and use this to develop an EA, which can progress to a full blown one..... However very simply I could have finished that sentence above and said..... "my wife doesn't understand me, and support and appreciate me", but I didn't, because Appreciate and Support to a man would be validated by have mutually good/exciting sex with him multiple times a week:D in 90% of the cases..... The other 10% are those that are predisposed to cheating, plain and simple.

 

As I have stated many times we men (the majority) are very simple in our wants and needs.....

 

That is also why I have such an issue with many of these EA's..... If it is a man discussing with another woman, his fears, issues in his marriage, it is because we are wired not to discuss this with our male friends and "professionals". On the other hand, women can sit in a circle and all discuss their home issues and no one blinks twice.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Luv2dance]

G,

I am keenly aware that there are times when sex WOULD be the least important thing in the world to my wife save for the fact that she realizes it is critical to my happiness. So if she were to make it (sex) a very low priority for us as a couple than the message she would be sending me is that MY happiness is at the bottom of her priority list. And THAT is what is not acceptable. As I have said before, way more than half the time the focus is on her and her priorities and I am fine with that.

 

Sex has NOTHING to do with her prioritization of sex - and EVERYTHING to do with her prioritization of ME.

 

IMO this is key...I can't understand how you can be in a good loving relationship and not put a priority on something that the other person values & needs to be happy. Those things just don't go together, and it doesn't matter if it is sex or ping pong. (I love the ping pong thing, btw)

 

I'm sure there are other women who have Lizzie's experience in a LTR, and other women who have my experience. What are the differences between the couples in each group? Is it something about the man? The woman? The relationship? What is the difference??

 

I think it is a combo of all, but the relationship I would think plays the biggest role. It has to be harder to feel the desire for the "connection" if you are constantly at battle over the day to day stuff or in general don't get along. Also, I think most of the LTR that have the type of "sex" you speak of after 15-20 yrs did start out with a great CHEMISTRY and probably have that soul mate connection.

[mem11363]

We play and are playful with each other all the time. Ping pong is competitive in a fun way. When she plays well I tell her. But there is some light banter while we play - all in fun. And that is just the "game du jour" we randomly try out new things on a regular basis and if she likes some game/sport/board game then we play it as much as she likes. She is smart and really good company so I am happy to spend time together doing just about anything. In fact - she is such good company I am even able to enjoy clothing shopping with her.

 

And I do think the combination of the stuff below is what makes it all work:

- being great company: playful, considerate, accommodating, funny

- being a little reserved: just a half ratchet more emotionally reserved than she wants seems to work best

- having a light to moderate edge

 

 

 

 

OMG, mem, this ping pong stuff is about the most romantic thing I have ever read on LS! Isn't it great if you can still PLAY in a marriage? I personally love raquet sports but s!ck badly at ping pong but I'm good at tennis. Playing tennis is one of the things my xMM and I like to do together.

Nothing makes me fall harder in love with a guy than the presence of the play factor meaning you can have some playful competition. For me it gives this "we are mates" feeling. I guess it is because I value the fact that we are peers, equals very much.

[tnttim]

I would say it's 100% of both men and women. Isn't it sex that separates a EA from a PA.

[xxoo]

You are lucky in your marriage, but most men in LTR/marriages I know they just complain about the sex frequency, all the time... but then you are still relatively "young"...

 

These threads make me fearful for my 40s!

 

But we started being more open with each other and sex started to improve.

 

I think this is a big factor for us. I am very, very open and direct about discussing sex with my partner.

[crazycatlady]

These threads make me fearful for my 40s!

 

 

 

I think this is a big factor for us. I am very, very open and direct about discussing sex with my partner.

 

 

Don't fear the 40s. I think your attitude is just different and you understand the importance of a good sex life, and you enjoy a good sex life. If it starts getting bland and boring, you are going to talk to your H about and fix it. I don't think you got to worry. Also you would never fall into the dread sex as a commodity trap.

 

H is out of town tonight....I keep thinking of wicked things to do to him that he would love and sending him text messages about it.

 

CCL

[xxoo]

That is also why I have such an issue with many of these EA's..... If it is a man discussing with another woman, his fears, issues in his marriage, it is because we are wired not to discuss this with our male friends and "professionals". On the other hand, women can sit in a circle and all discuss their home issues and no one blinks twice.

 

Discussing problems at home is not necessarily an emotional affair, although it can sometimes be inappropriate for other reasons. As a general rule, my guideline for discussing my relationship is "would I have this discussion in front of my partner?" That guideline flies out the window in abusive situations, of course.

 

To me, emotional affairs are more about building an emotionally intimate relationship with another person at the expense of the primary relationship. Spending time with that person (in person, online, or on the phone) becomes a priority, and displaces time spent with the spouse. Occasional chats with friends to help you sort through feelings are completely different.

[xxoo]

Don't fear the 40s. I think your attitude is just different and you understand the importance of a good sex life, and you enjoy a good sex life. If it starts getting bland and boring, you are going to talk to your H about and fix it. I don't think you got to worry. Also you would never fall into the dread sex as a commodity trap.

 

That one is for sure! H wouldn't accept it, either. He is clear about only wanting sex when it is mutually wanted.

 

H is out of town tonight....I keep thinking of wicked things to do to him that he would love and sending him text messages about it.

 

CCL

 

Fun!

[giotto]

G,

I am keenly aware that there are times when sex WOULD be the least important thing in the world to my wife save for the fact that she realizes it is critical to my happiness. So if she were to make it (sex) a very low priority for us as a couple than the message she would be sending me is that MY happiness is at the bottom of her priority list. And THAT is what is not acceptable. As I have said before, way more than half the time the focus is on her and her priorities and I am fine with that.

 

Sex has NOTHING to do with her prioritization of sex - and EVERYTHING to do with her prioritization of ME.

 

I'm sure I was at the bottom of that list too for a very long time... things are slowly improving... I think she's finally realized that it wasn't sustainable... why it's taken her 15 years to realize that is a bit of a mystery to me and I believe it has damaged the relationship beyond full recovery... nevertheless, your wife has a sex drive. I'm much more forgiving - maybe like JamesM - because I'm obviously very aware that my wife hasn't got any, and now I also know the reasons... but I've never been tempted to cheat...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Not in my experience of my group of friends who are 43 - 55. All have normal sex drives (2-4 times a week). Not sure if this varies by area/country/city, etc; but I disagree with your words that most W over 45 have low sex drives.

 

 

 

Because he can? because of his ego? Because he thinks he is God's gift to women?

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

And again the wife is being blamed...but really we only have the married guys point of view. Why would he be honest?

 

I would agree with the original post that was quoted. The wife is being blamed. People are ASSuming the wife is withholding, giving pity sex and the poor man has to beg for sex. Come on, really? Who believes this? Oh -- women in affairs do.

 

What is the man doing to ensure his marriage stays healthy and the sex is good? What is he doing for his wife? What kind of relationship do the married people have? Is he actively ensuring his wife's needs are met? Is he making sure she is satisfied? Is he loving and attentive to her needs? Why is it all about his needs?

 

I know a few stay at home dad's who are exhausted at the end of the day and the last thing they want is sex. Is it so hard to image a stay at home mom exhausted at the end of the day, after giving everything she has to raise the kids?

 

I do agree there are sexless marriages - due to lack of physical attraction (maybe he gained a lot of weight and she is disgusted by it or visa versa); or a medical issue or a lack of time (due to constant work travel).

 

I believe both people in the marriage are responsible for the sexual healthiness of their relationship.

 

But I disagree that it is okay to go out and cheat because there is a lack of sex. Why not seek outside help (therapist who specializes in sexual compatibility?)

 

As you are new and only have 9 posts to your name. Read any of the multitude of "sexless" marriage posts from spouses who are 100% faithful and you will read that they for the most part go above and beyond for their wives and get little.

 

And where are you, that all your friend's and xxoo's are getting it 2-4X's/wk????

[xxoo]

And where are you, that all your friend's and xxoo's are getting it 2-4X's/wk????

 

I didn't say me or my friends get it 2-4x a week. I said we get it regularly, which could be once a week or more in my book. That's in the "average" range that research finds for married couples (1-3x a week). Actually, I have NO idea how often my friends have sex...only that they speak about it positively, and talk about finding ways to get more of it with the obstacle of kids in the house.

 

Personally, I've always found it very difficult to quantify how often my H and I have sex. It is anywhere from 1-2x a week (full sex), to daily (sexual contact, play) depending what you call "sex". edited to add...at 1-2x a week, we both want more. Kids are still a significant issue here, and often the reason "play" doesn't become "full sex".

Edited April 11, 2010 by xxoo

[BlackLovely]

 

Even younger wives.. once they get a child.. they diminish sometimes by more than half..

 

Amen Lizzie60! This is one of the many reasons my fiance and I will be childfree. Screaming babies are bad for your appearance and your sex life.

[soserious1]

So the vast majority of cheating husbands have cold hearted wives who deprive the poor dears of sex? They face soul crushing rejection, night after night for years before finally succumbing to the temptations of an affair.

 

If you seriously believe that I've got a lovely bridge I can sell you.

 

I am divorced from a man who actively cruised craig's list for women to bed, along with filling his eyes on all the porn & web cam girls he could get to show him their assets. Doubtless he told these women we had a sexless marriage but I highly doubt he told them the true reasons for that.

 

Our sexless marriage & his infidelity had nothing to do with my refusal to be intimate with him and everything to do with his fear of his own aging & an arrogant sense of self-importance.He felt entitled to step out, that he'd "sacrificed" by being married to a woman who was an age peer and that he "owed it to himself" to dip his wick in as many strange younger women as would let him.

 

Of course, telling these women that he had a perfectly sexually willing wife at home sleeping on the sofa because he'd rejected her night after night for over a year wouldn't have gotten those younger gals to drop their panties so tell the lie about the frigid, rejecting menopausal wife.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Amen Lizzie60! This is one of the many reasons my fiance and I will be childfree. Screaming babies are bad for your appearance and your sex life.

 

Nothing wrong with being childless.... However if the only reason is worrying about your appearance and sex life, you really should re-evaluate your priorities.....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So the vast majority of cheating husbands have cold hearted wives who deprive the poor dears of sex? They face soul crushing rejection, night after night for years before finally succumbing to the temptations of an affair.

 

If you seriously believe that I've got a lovely bridge I can sell you.

 

I am divorced from a man who actively cruised craig's list for women to bed, along with filling his eyes on all the porn & web cam girls he could get to show him their assets. Doubtless he told these women we had a sexless marriage but I highly doubt he told them the true reasons for that.

 

Our sexless marriage & his infidelity had nothing to do with my refusal to be intimate with him and everything to do with his fear of his own aging & an arrogant sense of self-importance.He felt entitled to step out, that he'd "sacrificed" by being married to a woman who was an age peer and that he "owed it to himself" to dip his wick in as many strange younger women as would let him.

 

Of course, telling these women that he had a perfectly sexually willing wife at home sleeping on the sofa because he'd rejected her night after night for over a year wouldn't have gotten those younger gals to drop their panties so tell the lie about the frigid, rejecting menopausal wife.

 

we know your story and your jerk of a husband.....

 

Was he a sociopath? I really don't know the word to describe him..... We are all so sorry about your predicament, but that is the exception, not the norm.....

[soserious1]

we know your story and your jerk of a husband.....

 

Was he a sociopath? I really don't know the word to describe him..... We are all so sorry about your predicament, but that is the exception, not the norm.....

 

Do you seriously think there isn't a shortage of men & women out there who cheat simply because they want

to experience sex with a variety of partners & figure if they can get away with it, they're entitled to do so?

 

In the last one year of my marriage I had sex ZERO times, in the year or two prior to that I had sex less than 5 times.

Somehow though, difficult as it might have been, I resisted the urge to bed men outside of my marriage and I've got a sexual drive that could probably rival that of a 25 yr old man.

[soserious1]

Copy and paste did not work....

 

Here is why I posted it...... and my comment

 

So here is my response there and interested in replies on this section of the board....

Stay on the Marriage Section.... Anyways I'll tell you maybe that is 10% of the cases. Maybe another 20% are just narcissistic aholes... Add another 15% who just find their spouses unattractive (sorry I will say that ugly word weight gain, no effort to do anything about it while they have remained the same).... So I will say 2/3rds are cheating because they don't get it at home regardless of what they do.....

 

I hate these spurious arguments....

 

No, "2/3rds are cheating" because they don't have the courage or the morals to either take a stand and fix things in their marriages once and for all or get a divorce before they start pursuing others.

[stillafool]

Nothing wrong with being childless.... However if the only reason is worrying about your appearance and sex life, you really should re-evaluate your priorities.....

 

I'm not agreeing with her reasons to be childless as it really is none of my business. But, it does seem that she has made her appearance and her sex life her priority and this is why she doesn't want kids.

[stillafool]

No, "2/3rds are cheating" because they don't have the courage or the morals to either take a stand and fix things in their marriages once and for all or get a divorce before they start pursuing others.

 

I agree. If they want to make their sex lives a priority get a divorce.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'm not agreeing with her reasons to be childless as it really is none of my business. But, it does seem that she has made her appearance and her sex life her priority and this is why she doesn't want kids.

 

Just sad to think that is the two most important priorities. Read this site and there are still many attractive (or at least consider themselves attractive) people having lots of sex.....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Do you seriously think there isn't a shortage of men & women out there who cheat simply because they want

to experience sex with a variety of partners & figure if they can get away with it, they're entitled to do so?

 

In the last one year of my marriage I had sex ZERO times, in the year or two prior to that I had sex less than 5 times.

Somehow though, difficult as it might have been, I resisted the urge to bed men outside of my marriage and I've got a sexual drive that could probably rival that of a 25 yr old man.

 

Yes there some like your ex-husband.... Also there are one night stands, but those looking for affairs (long-term connections) I think do so the majority of the time because of a lack of sex at home....