Torn between lover and husband

[witabix]

Love CAN NOT be promised. You CAN NOT promise to love someone in the future. You CAN say I love you today.

 

I'd agree with that. To a degree. Love changes, goes away, sometimes disappears.

 

Love can be promised, why not? Anything can be promised. Your post that I referred to said nothing about love, it talked about promising nothing, actually promising to leave when your needs are not being met. I never mentioned love, only your words about faithfulness and loyalty within the context you used them. I found it to be confused, to be all about your needs and the assurance that if they are not met you will leave.

 

That is a perfectly acceptable stance to take if you wish, just don't confuse what you are offering as loyalty and faithfulness.

 

What you seem to be addressing is a contract, you meet my needs and I will be faithful. That's ok to do as long as the other person understands what is on the table.

[jennie-jennie]

You can't. I can.

 

Nobody can. You can vow to honor your legal commitments, but you cannot promise to harbor specific feelings.

[jennie-jennie]

I'd agree with that. To a degree. Love changes, goes away, sometimes disappears.

 

Love can be promised, why not? Anything can be promised. Your post that I referred to said nothing about love, it talked about promising nothing, actually promising to leave when your needs are not being met. I never mentioned love, only your words about faithfulness and loyalty within the context you used them. I found it to be confused, to be all about your needs and the assurance that if they are not met you will leave.

 

That is a perfectly acceptable stance to take if you wish, just don't confuse what you are offering as loyalty and faithfulness.

 

What you seem to be addressing is a contract, you meet my needs and I will be faithful. That's ok to do as long as the other person understands what is on the table.

 

To me love for a partner is a selfish love. It is not like the love I hold for my children, my parents, my friends. It has an extra quality, and it has that because it meets my needs just like I meet my partner's needs (more or less).

[witabix]

To me love for a partner is a selfish love. It is not like the love I hold for my children, my parents, my friends. It has an extra quality, and it has that because it meets my needs just like I meet my partner's needs (more or less).

 

And that is perfectly fine.

 

Threadjack finished.

[reboot]

Nobody can. You can vow to honor your legal commitments, but you cannot promise to harbor specific feelings.

 

You (and others here) assume that because you feel a certain way, or think a certain way, then that is the only way things can be. Just because we see some things differently does not make either of us right or wrong, just different. Your particular view of the world is perfectly fine for you, but just because you view it that way doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

Some things can be proven scientifically or mathematically. 2 + 2 always equals 4. 2 hydrogen molecules + 1 oxygen molecule always makes water.

 

A human's emotions and feelings can't be described by any law of physics, no matter how much we'd like them to.

[Dexter Morgan]

That is also why my exSO had to prove himself for me to go back to him. He made an effort and did fulfill my needs for a month or so, long enough to have me hooked on him again.

 

maybe thats because you cheated, expected him to bend over backwards to prove to you he was worthy, but you probably didn't do anything to prove to him that you were worthy after cheating.

 

my guess is you expected him to exert all the effort and didn't do much to reciprocate

 

 

I promise nothing, I stay with the man who meets my needs the most. Yet I am loyal to a fault, so meet my needs and you have the most faithful partner.

 

I stand correct. Simply promising fidelity while getting all your needs met isn't enough. something tells me you reap the benefits of getting these needs met and think fidelity is all you have to offer in return.

[Dexter Morgan]

Most likely a cultural difference between our two countries. You marry for life, we marry (or cohabitate) for love.

 

no, sounds like you marry to get you needs met without feeling the need to promise much in return.

[stillafool]

stillafool , I think you are too quick to post your helpful advice to read that now her husband already knows about the affair & she is trying to work it out with her husband . May I ask you why you sound so angry ?

 

Sorry, Jthorne was right didn't read the whole thing. But to answer your question; it does seem that people come here and talk about how hopelessly in love they are with the AP and then when found out, instead of making a move to be with their lover, they then have a change of mind. My question is what happened to all of that love for the AP? I know, most say they do it for the kids sake, but where were these thoughts of the kids sake when they were screwing around?

[jennie-jennie]

Sorry, Jthorne was right didn't read the whole thing. But to answer your question; it does seem that people come here and talk about how hopelessly in love they are with the AP and then when found out, instead of making a move to be with their lover, they then have a change of mind. My question is what happened to all of that love for the AP? I know, most say they do it for the kids sake, but where were these thoughts of the kids sake when they were screwing around?

 

Well, the WSs obviously were not prepared to give up their marriages since they were having an extramarital affair instead of getting a divorce, so when their marriages are threatened on Dday they do everything they can to keep from losing what they were not prepared to lose.

 

Wheelwright wrote a great post where she explained that in the face of her husband's pain on Dday she no longer felt the love she had for her MOM. Once things had calmed down at home, her love for him returned.

[Owl]

Hey November...have you had a chance to check out any of the books I had recommended for you and your H?

[rebuildingmyself]

Sorry, Jthorne was right didn't read the whole thing. But to answer your question; it does seem that people come here and talk about how hopelessly in love they are with the AP and then when found out, instead of making a move to be with their lover, they then have a change of mind. My question is what happened to all of that love for the AP? I know, most say they do it for the kids sake, but where were these thoughts of the kids sake when they were screwing around?

 

Another reason the love towards the AP goes away is that many bad feelings become associated with that person. The guilt and shame start to take place of the love that once could be expressed without thought. None of it is right or smart, but people do it all the time. I know I was completely in love with my AP but have "lost that loving feeling" due to months of turmoil and stress and also his lies. A's are a sad, sad business.

[White Flower]

Love CAN NOT be promised. You CAN NOT promise to love someone in the future. You CAN say I love you today.

 

You can't. I can.

I am going to start a new thread on this subject. I invite anyone who is willing to have an honest discussion and promises to check their Hate Hats at the door.

[November-Rain]

I'd say that she's the only one who could guess where her heart is at right now...but I'd also guess that she's not had a chance to really try to sit and figure that out, either.

 

And in truth, if she WERE to stop and try to sort through it, she'd probably still be hard pressed to definitively say that she wants to be with either one of them. Her heart is probably still wrapped up in both to a degree.

 

But what she's going through right now, what she's doing and what her H is doing is all pretty textbook for the aftermath of an affair.

 

After more than one week of not being able to post. I can tell you that I completely agree with you Owl, that at this precise moment I want neither.

 

My husband has quit MC and is threatning to leave and stay away, He claims that once he leaves I will realize how much I miss and love him. Also, he called me a while ago and said he would come home only if I had sex with him. I don't get as to why he is saying that, maybe it's a way of punishing me, because I hurt him, and took away his pride. As of recently I have been very distant with him, I believe the reason might be that all the monitoring and constant questioning has really taken a toll on me and is hindering the reconnection process. I have been very open with him and have not had any contact with OM at all. I still struggle with being intimate with him, I'm finding it very hard to feel close to him, and I know that's what he wants and needs. I wish I could do all this for him, but I cannot bring myself to go through the act of having sex and all that goes with it.

 

Again, the guilt is overwhelming, I really feel I've done my husband so wrong. My poor children are suffering as well.

[JustJoe]

NR, stick with it. It will get better, if you let it. You, as the adulterer, must make a disproportionate amount of the effort, but your H needs to at least be open to communication. Talk to him, and when you are through talking, listen to what he is saying, not so much the words , as the feelings he is expressing. He has to have an outlet, and the control he is exerting over you is his way of venting his bitterness. It will pass, when he realizes that you are willing to go all the way to repair your marriage and re-connect to him. As far as the sex, you must communicate to him that your reluctance is IN NO WAY related to the OM, but to your guilt feelings , and your own lack of feeling of intimacy, and that the more you talk the better it will be.

[November-Rain]

no, she needs to show that being an open book doesn't bother her. Obviously it does

 

Being an open book doesn't bother me. I just don't know how to handle and cope with the constant monitoring. I know I caused this, and I am truly sorry, however, I really can't even go to the restroom in peace without having someone knocking on the door to find out what I am exactly doing.

 

My husband went to my place of work with my children a few days ago. He couldn't find me, he had my 13 yr. old texting me, wanting to know my exact whearabouts. They eventually located me, but by then I was upset and angry that my husband is involving our children to the degree of having to go to my place of work. As a matter of fact my 13 year old obsesses over my phone and is constantly checking every call and text that comes in. I've had serious talks with my children about their involvement, two out of the three are pretty good at keeping out of our business, but my 13 year old, is sadly getting worse.

 

Any advice on how to cope?

[Dexter Morgan]

Being an open book doesn't bother me. I just don't know how to handle and cope with the constant monitoring.

 

he has to put up with the thoughts of you messing around with another guy in his head, I think you can handle the monitoring for a while.

 

your feelings of being monitored are nothing compared what you dished out to him.

 

the monitoring, my guess is, will become less frequent as time goes by, because he simply will grow tired of babysitting someone that he thinks needs it.

 

 

My husband went to my place of work with my children a few days ago. He couldn't find me, he had my 13 yr. old texting me, wanting to know my exact whearabouts. They eventually located me, but by then I was upset and angry that my husband is involving our children to the degree of having to go to my place of work. As a matter of fact my 13 year old obsesses over my phone and is constantly checking every call and text that comes in. I've had serious talks with my children about their involvement, two out of the three are pretty good at keeping out of our business, but my 13 year old, is sadly getting worse.

 

Any advice on how to cope?

 

only thing I can tell you is, if you truly are remorseful and want to keep your marriage, you are going to have to put up with some short term temporary insanity on his part, because its what you caused him.

 

and there will come a time when he will grow tired of it....then you can breath easy. But make no mistake, when that day comes, you may think he is fine, but he will never be able to shake the visions of what you and another guy were doing. he may just decide to bottle it up for the sake of keeping the family together.

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, you will be able to breath again at some point, but the inner turmoil with him will probably last as long as you 2 are together.

[jennie-jennie]

After more than one week of not being able to post. I can tell you that I completely agree with you Owl, that at this precise moment I want neither.

 

My husband has quit MC and is threatning to leave and stay away, He claims that once he leaves I will realize how much I miss and love him. Also, he called me a while ago and said he would come home only if I had sex with him. I don't get as to why he is saying that, maybe it's a way of punishing me, because I hurt him, and took away his pride. As of recently I have been very distant with him, I believe the reason might be that all the monitoring and constant questioning has really taken a toll on me and is hindering the reconnection process. I have been very open with him and have not had any contact with OM at all. I still struggle with being intimate with him, I'm finding it very hard to feel close to him, and I know that's what he wants and needs. I wish I could do all this for him, but I cannot bring myself to go through the act of having sex and all that goes with it.

 

Again, the guilt is overwhelming, I really feel I've done my husband so wrong. My poor children are suffering as well.

 

NovemberRain, I am so sorry you are hurting.

 

But with the part I bolded above, I do not understand why you are even trying to reconcile with your husband. Is it the guilt?

[whichwayisup]

Counseling. Together with your H and apart. Doing counseling alone so you can learn how to cope with the fallout of your affair, how to handle your husband checking up on you and dealing with his insecurity and mistrust. If you want your marriage to atleast work and have a chance, somehow you NEED to put yourself in his shoes and remember his world got turned upside down, everything he thought was 'normal' is now not, at all.

 

I'm not sure if separating is the right thing to do, it might just push your H over the edge and make him feel like he has no control and mistrust you even more, thinking that you're going to hook up with the OM again.

 

Anyway, don't throw in the towel because of fear, frustration and being tired of your H's reaction to all this. If you do, you might regret it.

[MorningCoffee]

he has to put up with the thoughts of you messing around with another guy in his head, I think you can handle the monitoring for a while.

. . .

and there will come a time when he will grow tired of it....then you can breath easy. But make no mistake, when that day comes, you may think he is fine, but he will never be able to shake the visions of what you and another guy were doing.

 

I definitely agree with the first part I bolded, and I strongly disagree with the second.

 

Maybe NR's H "will never be able" to shake those visions, but then again maybe he will. Only time will tell.

 

Why do I say this? After my WS's affair became known to me, it hurt like hell, we separated, and only very slowly did we reconcile after she ended the A. It did take time, but not only did we make it on our own, but I was able to shake the visions (which really did bother me, as her AP had been my closest guy friend).

 

FWIW, we went on to have a very happy M that only ended from her terminal illness 25 years later.

 

IMO, no blanket prediction of what NR's H will or will never be able to do can be accurate.

[whichwayisup]

Those visions may go away, enough not to be intense and vibrant, but he'll always have triggers.

 

2 years from now, watching a movie, maybe a TV show, something will remind him on some level.

 

You are right, time will tell and everyone is different, so there's no actual timeframe here.

[bananalaffytaffy]

The sex thing is so very odd to me. If my H cheated on me, he'd be like damaged goods, sloppy seconds, etc. It'd be a looooong time before I would ever want sex with him again. It must be a male ego thing. Your H must have had a fractured ego before the A, did he? Was it something that contributed to the A?

 

I'm not really sure what he wants (other than sex on demand) if he won't go to MC. It sounds like he wants you to fix this all yourself. I'm not sure how that's possible.

 

Perhaps you should let him leave. See if you actually miss him. Let him see what it's like to be gone but not able to monitor your every move. A break could be good for both of you, since neither one of you know what you want.

Edited June 9, 2010 by bananalaffytaffy

[turnera]

I have seen BHs before feel a big need to 'prove' to themselves in the bedroom area; even become animalistic about it. Quite a few, actually.

[Owl]

OK, my thought is pretty basic.

 

There are some things that you can "insist" on as part of recovery, and some you cannot.

 

They way that NR's husband is saying "you'll come home and have *** or else"...that I just find revolting, demeaning, and honestly almost hateful.

 

That's clearly not the way to rebuild anything...I don't care who you are or what the situation is.

 

I think that NR's marriage may well not be recoverable. It sounds to me as though her H simply isn't going to be able to forgive and focus on reconciliation...it sounds to me like he wants revenge or payback on her more than anything else.

 

Given that...I think that seperation IS the right way to go.

 

Either he realizes what he's doing and makes changes...or she moves on.

 

Yes, I know she's the fWS. That doesn't give her H the right to treat her this way. He needs to change what he's doing...or she needs to walk away.

 

If he can finally see what he's doing, change it...then perhaps reconciliation could be possible. But I don't believe it is with his current mindset and attitude.

[turnera]

I agree. What he did was wrong and demeaning (as he probably intended), no matter what the reason.

[Dexter Morgan]

I definitely agree with the first part I bolded, and I strongly disagree with the second.

 

Maybe NR's H "will never be able" to shake those visions, but then again maybe he will. Only time will tell.

 

Oh I'm not saying that the visions will haunt him forever, but he will think about them from time to time. I know you think about your WS's screwing around once in a blue moon, you just may not be haunted by the thoughts anymore.

 

Still doesn't mean that thinking about it once in a blue moon wouldn't boil ones blood just a lil

 

Hell, once in a while it pops into my head about my X, but it doesn't bother me because she is no longer my problem.