Do men actually Affair down?

[jj33]

Wow this has become a misogynist thread - men affair down because after all they need it and woman are just trash. Oh my....

 

Stella dont listen to a word of this misogynist tosh. As others have said, his W is hurt and she is lashing out at you. That is understandable.

 

But just like children on a playground its sticks and stones. You are taking it on board because you are looking back and wondering how you got where you are today feeling badly about something that seemed so wonderful at the time.

 

This woman doesnt define who you are. You define who you are. And her "criteria" for determining who is better? ridiculous. Noone is "better" than anyone else. We all have our own qualities. And lets face it, the man wasnt going to risk his marriage and everything else for someone who he didnt think was worth it.

 

If you decide to regret the affair, that is your decision. But dont regret who you are or let her change your view of you.

 

If you can help it, just delete any further texts or emails from her, or block her from contacting you.

 

Take good care

 

Big hugs

 

jj

[CrissyQ]

The majority of women wouldn't choose to have an affair with a married man. Married men who go skulking for affairs know this. Thus, they often select women they see as needy, who have low self-esteem, who lack scruples, or who are otherwise easy targets. So yes, in a sense, they "affair down."

 

I guess at times I am a OOW and you are right from what I hear from alot of MM who are in a affair this is the idea that I get from them.

[OWoman]

I think all affairs are about A'ing down. It's not about looks or status, it's about the moral code.

I'm a very good looking woman with lots of great stuff going on and the wife of the married guy I cheated with was overweight, not pretty, never worked, was depressed etc.

BUT, she had morals and integrity, he husband on the other hand did not. Nor did I, at the time, so sure he had a pretty girl to have an affair with, but I was ugly inside to lower myself to the standard of being a lying cheat.

 

In your case, perhaps. But it's not so in many others.

 

People who know my H's xW and me IRL all agree that he upgraded - on both the "external" and the "internal" aspects. As a fWS, an abuser (at home and at work) and a hypocrit, she had absolutely no moral high ground and I've yet to meet anyone who considered her to have any integrity.

 

Likewise, just because you were "ugly inside", not all OWs are, or consider themselves to be - or are considered by those who know them (rather than arb strangers, including self-hating ROWs, on internet forums). I'm quite comfortable in who I am and who I was - I don't get off on flagellating myself publicly, nor do I need to do so in order to face myself in the mirror. I'm sorry for those who do - and would recommend some IC to help them come to terms with all aspects of their character, past and present

[OWoman]

Woman are easy pray since we work on emotion and not logic.

 

Assuming you meant "prey" instead of "pray", this remains a generalisation. I am far more logical than many, if not most, of my men friends, and far less emotional. And I'm nobody's "prey". I do the choosing in Rs.

[OWoman]

Wow this has become a misogynist thread - men affair down because after all they need it and woman are just trash. Oh my....

 

Stella dont listen to a word of this misogynist tosh. As others have said, his W is hurt and she is lashing out at you. That is understandable.

 

But just like children on a playground its sticks and stones. You are taking it on board because you are looking back and wondering how you got where you are today feeling badly about something that seemed so wonderful at the time.

 

This woman doesnt define who you are. You define who you are. And her "criteria" for determining who is better? ridiculous. Noone is "better" than anyone else. We all have our own qualities. And lets face it, the man wasnt going to risk his marriage and everything else for someone who he didnt think was worth it.

 

If you decide to regret the affair, that is your decision. But dont regret who you are or let her change your view of you.

 

If you can help it, just delete any further texts or emails from her, or block her from contacting you.

 

Take good care

 

Big hugs

 

jj

 

 

Agree 100%. Stella, her nasty email says more about her than it does about you. She's trying to belittle you so that she can feel OK about herself. She knows nothing at all about you. She's merely projecting.

 

Pity her for lacking the emotional resources and sophistication to deal with this more maturely.

 

Hang in there.

 

 

(((((hugs)))))

[RedDevil66]

Assuming you meant "prey" instead of "pray", this remains a generalisation. I am far more logical than many, if not most, of my men friends, and far less emotional. And I'm nobody's "prey". I do the choosing in Rs.

 

yes, having multiple affairs with married men sounds very logical

Thanks for the spelling lesson

[RedDevil66]

In your case, perhaps. But it's not so in many others.

 

People who know my H's xW and me IRL all agree that he upgraded - on both the "external" and the "internal" aspects. As a fWS, an abuser (at home and at work) and a hypocrit, she had absolutely no moral high ground and I've yet to meet anyone who considered her to have any integrity.

 

Likewise, just because you were "ugly inside", not all OWs are, or consider themselves to be - or are considered by those who know them (rather than arb strangers, including self-hating ROWs, on internet forums). I'm quite comfortable in who I am and who I was - I don't get off on flagellating myself publicly, nor do I need to do so in order to face myself in the mirror. I'm sorry for those who do - and would recommend some IC to help them come to terms with all aspects of their character, past and present

 

 

but someone who has MULTIPLE affairs with married man as you did has a high moral ground?

Please enlighten me!

[carhill]

Do men actually Affair down?

 

IME, and with the few men who've disclosed such matters to me, I'd say, wrt 'affairs', as a opposed to 'flings' or 'ONS', it's an equally balancing summation of qualities, but a more compatible balance of qualities. IOW, for a man who values a good heart, he might balance that with less focus on looks (or the reverse) than in his M. Add in a whole plethora of qualities which make up a person and the affair partner, for some men, has a more compatible mix of those qualities. I don't view that as 'up' or 'down' because those are such simplistic terms for a complex dynamic.

 

I'll echo others in suggesting you not enjoin the BW in any discourse and, further, accept her statements as her feelings about the affair. Her feelings are valid. She owns them. You own yourself. Her statements are not reflective of that ownership nor do they define you. Hopefully, you can learn and grow from this experience.

[Passion4Life]

My lover certainly didn't! His W was fat, ugly and not very smart either. She made a lot less money than me too. She got pregnant, so he married her. She immediately got fat and lazy. Didn't care about her looks, then didn't want to put out cause she was ashamed of her fat a$$. Cute kid, tho.

 

so ur lover must have dumped his wife for u , am I ight ?

[desertmoon]

"affairing" up and down depends on what each person considers of value. If Stella's xMM was lacking in the intimacy department in his marriage and found it with Stella-was happy/satisfied with it-then he was 'affairing" up. In that he found something BETTER in that department.

 

As an fBS, I know my xH was "affairing up"-in that, at 18-19 years of age, he did not really have a lot of things in common with me( he was way older) AND I was sexually naive/immature.

 

Years after, as an xOW, my xMM "affaired up" in almost every category in that, I was younger, prettier, earned more, and I shared his passion.

 

Did he choose to be with me? Absolutely. But I chose not to be him.

[Hazyhead]

Hi, just a question, when MM go out sculking for A's, do they affair down? The e-mail I receved from WS was pretty harsh she said:

 

"You were just an easy target for him. You are someone with weak moral character, half decent looks but an ugly and lonely interior. If you were a strong and moral person that had confidence in yourself you would never be looking to a married man. Honey, every man affairs DOWN"

 

Just wondering what people's thoughts are? He chose me for a reason, I never thought a guy would jeopardize his family and finaces for someone that was below standards..MM "said", what attracted him to me, was my confidence and independance, something she lacked. I was so delusional...Sorry for ranting..I know I desevered her rage...but really, would a man sacrifice his entire world for a "horrible" person..? Stella

 

My xAP's wife said something very similar to me. She called and told me that I'd manipulated him and that I may think of myself as superior to her (I didn't/don't), but the one thing I don't have over her is morality. She said we deserve each other and I was welcome to him.

 

I don't know what went on in their discussions, but I did not argue with her, just stated that what she believed wasn't the case, but I realised that trying to defend myself to her was futile. I did, however, apologise. Not that that meant anything to her.

 

I understand her need to lash out and, if they are to try and rescue their marriage in the future, his willingness to let me take the fall. I think the problem she faces there is that the person who did of the chasing and work to preserve the affair was him, which is clearly the opposite from she If he allows me to take the blame he does not have to face his own issues; cue - affair no. 3.

 

I was angry at first at the way it seemed he had twisted it. But now, I don't care. In a way it allows me to move on with a definite end, knowing that he will not and can not come back looking for more.

[califnan]

I was going to answer your title by being facetious: In my mind John Edwards affaired down, Clinton affaired up ... But what do I know.. ha

 

My husband's friends, family, secretary have all told me over the years that I had more beauty - inside and out, than Aliede (But that doesn't take much, ha) ..

 

But beauty is truely in the eyes of the beholder.. And at the end of the day, I think affairs are just something that happen and with no preplanning.. The individual who appears in the MM or MW's life - could be Anyone..

[Lizzie60]

Some affair up.. some affair down... for the BS.. they always affair down... for the OW .. they always affair up...

[BB07]

Hi Stella, I'm sorry for all the crap you are going through and I'm sure some mean comments by the bs didn't help your already fragile state, but just try to remember where they are coming from. It's not about you, it's about the mess she now finds herself in and it's about her passing some blame out. She wants to hurt you as she is holding you partially responsible for her hurt. Just file 13 it and get on with your life.

[Got it]

It is in the eye of the beholder and one's point of view. I imagine most BSs would think their WS affairs down. What does that say about the BS's view of themselves if they think the OP was a step up?

 

I am sure my sMM's wife thought it was a step down, in an email to me she told me that it was all fantasy. I respect her opinion to that though being in it I felt I had a better idea of what it actually was.

 

My self esteem is not determined by others, especially someone that has never met me.

[PhoenixRise]

Stella

 

This woman is very hurt and she is trying to hurt you in return. Don't take what she says to heart.

 

 

This thread has gone the way that anyone could predict that a thread about affair down vs affair up would go. No matter what side of the triangle you are on you are not going to think of yourself as the "lessor" party.

 

AND in Stella's case I think the debate misses an important point. The wife and possibly all of Stella's co-workers think exactly what MM wanted them to think. He told their co-workers that Stella was a lonely, desperate, stalker type to protect himself and save his reputation at work, and he told his wife the same thing to protect himself and save his marriage. She didn't have to get it from SI or anywhere else, she got it straight from the horse's mouth.

 

 

Stella, I think self reflection is a wonderful thing. You say that you violated your own moral code to be in the affair. I say examine yourself. Look at why you were willing to do this if it violates your code. AND I say examine your code to make sure it is really what you believe and not just what you think you should believe. But don't under any circumstance let the words of a liar or the words of a woman clearly in a lot of pain define you. Only you can do that. Decide who you are, for real, and be that.

Edited April 11, 2010 by PhoenixRise

[fooled once]

Wow this has become a misogynist thread - men affair down because after all they need it and woman are just trash. Oh my....

 

Stella don't listen to a word of this misogynist tosh. As others have said, his W is hurt and she is lashing out at you. That is understandable.

 

But just like children on a playground its sticks and stones. You are taking it on board because you are looking back and wondering how you got where you are today feeling badly about something that seemed so wonderful at the time.

 

This woman doesnt define who you are. You define who you are. And her "criteria" for determining who is better? ridiculous. Noone is "better" than anyone else. We all have our own qualities. And lets face it, the man wasnt going to risk his marriage and everything else for someone who he didnt think was worth it.

 

If you decide to regret the affair, that is your decision. But dont regret who you are or let her change your view of you.

 

If you can help it, just delete any further texts or emails from her, or block her from contacting you.

 

Take good care

 

Big hugs

 

jj

 

 

By far the best post on this thread. Great post JJ

[stella79]

(((Pheonix)))..Thank you! I have spent the last few weeks battling myself and trying to figure out who I am. I was vulnerable before the A, I wouldn't say desperate. He may have preyed upon me, but he was unhappy with his W..not his family. His W is hurting and is trying to justify the whole thing so she does not look like a fool for staying with him.

 

IMO, even the most moral of people can find themselves in situations where the heart is making all the decisions. I used to think badly of people who were involved in Affairs..Now, I will think twice about passing judgement. I am trying to get over it, and hopefully never become that vulnerable and let a MM into my life.

 

Thanks for all the great advice..I will not contact either one of them..They aren't worth my time. She said what she needed to say. Thankfully I can go on (I'm single, I only damaged myself).

 

Hugs! Stella

[stillafool]

Hi, just a question, when MM go out sculking for A's, do they affair down? The e-mail I receved from WS was pretty harsh she said:

 

"You were just an easy target for him. You are someone with weak moral character, half decent looks but an ugly and lonely interior. If you were a strong and moral person that had confidence in yourself you would never be looking to a married man. Honey, every man affairs DOWN"

 

Just wondering what people's thoughts are? He chose me for a reason, I never thought a guy would jeopardize his family and finaces for someone that was below standards..MM "said", what attracted him to me, was my confidence and independance, something she lacked. I was so delusional...Sorry for ranting..I know I desevered her rage...but really, would a man sacrifice his entire world for a "horrible" person..? Stella

 

 

Why do you care what she thinks? Seriously, why care now? Of course she isn't going to say nice things to you because you took her husband. Just realize she is angry and is saying things to hurt you. Don't give her another thought just enjoy your MM man.

[Passion4Life]

Why do you care what she thinks? Seriously, why care now? Of course she isn't going to say nice things to you because you took her husband. Just realize she is angry and is saying things to hurt you. Don't give her another thought just enjoy your MM man.

 

well I think op isn't with the mm anymore.

[bentnotbroken]

Why do you care what she thinks? Seriously, why care now? Of course she isn't going to say nice things to you because you took her husband. Just realize she is angry and is saying things to hurt you. Don't give her another thought just enjoy your MM man.

 

 

She isn't with the MM.

[stillafool]

Oh sorry OP. Now I'm really confused as to why you give a hoot what she thinks.

[stella79]

Hi, To be honest..The hurt is still there. I had initiated NC before D-day in hopes that he would man up and leave his W for me.

 

He was texting me and telling me how much he loved me and I was the person he was meant to be with. Then D-day came and he initally told me he loved me, then he disappeared for the weekend, called in sick from work..Then called me up and said he never wanted to speak to me again, it was a terrible mistake, he was a bad person and did not want to lose his family. About a week later I received the e-mail from his W.

 

So to make a long story short..I was devastated and disregarded..I think he is afraid that I will talk to his W and tell her the truth..but I'm sure she already thinks I am a liar. She found texts and e-mails that I really don't know how he talked his way out of. He talked alot about how much he loved me and how he can't go a day without seeing me..ect..

 

I guess I am looking for some kind of explanation about how a man can stop loving someone overnight and have the balls to say that it was only for sex, and he lied about everything and that he Affaired down.

 

I'm sure i am going off topic, but I still care about him and I am letting her get to me.. Sorry..the wounds are still open. Stella

[georgia girl]

Stella,

 

I think there's two things going on here. First, she's angry and she's got an avenue to get to you and spew every angry, hateful thing she can because she desperately wants to vent some of her grief and anger. While understandable, it's painful for you and I'm sorry.

 

But, the other thing I think may be going on here and I don't see anyone else commenting on it so I am, is that I think he may have described you very unfairly to her. Didn't he mischaracterize you at work as well? As desperate and stalking?

 

Right now, to save his own backside and probably his marriage, he has likely cast you in a very unfavorable light. Every little thing he could say to make you look bad and himself more of a hapless victim, he's likely to have uttered. That's his MO, as I understand it (and could be wrong).

 

Also, when a DDay happens and a man chooses to stay in his marriage (that's his golden opportunity to pick one or the other), then I think there's a natural tendency on the part of the MM to mischaracterize the OP. It would be hard to say to your spouse, "Honey, I love you and I want to stay with you, even though I totally violated your trust. But, to be honest, she's a decent lady and has some wonderful qualities that really drew me to her."

 

Like it or not, men are much more simplistic: if he can get away with demonizing you to make her feel better, then he will. Don't take her words as any reflection of you. But do consider the source of her information.

 

 

Good luck. You are so far on this path to healing your heart. While you don't see it yet, I can see it in your posts. You may still love him, but you are healing.

 

Take care.

[bentnotbroken]

Stella, this isn't to diminish what you feel, but you and his wife are feeling very close to the same thing. Pain so intense because you cannot understand how a person can stab you with your own feelings. You won't understand anymore than she will. The things that you feel aren't any less real because you chose the situation, but .....huge but.......walking away now gives you the opportunity to look at the situation and realize that it wasn't the ideal relationship. You wanted him to leave her(which I believe most AP do)and he let you know what his thought process was by not doing that. He lied to her to be with you...isn't it probable that he lied to you to stay with her. He wanted both. He had both. He no longer wants both....for now. My bet is he isn't done, you should be.

 

I have been on the other side of this coin. Mr. Messy and OW were both given the out, neither wanted it. When they were dismissed, they didn't want it. Her BS and I both filed for D, both begged to stay. My point is, trying to rationalize the irrational is impossible.