Do men actually Affair down?

[Phateless]

The BS makes good points. If you were as confident and independent as you claim to be, you would never have got involved with her husband.

 

Work on you. Be all you can be and then some. Don't lower yourself to be with a married man ever again.

 

His W should dump him instead of looking to you to blame. Yes, she is angry and rightly so, but getting involved in your life, is pointless to her. She will see that in time. You could have been anyone. You are not special to this unavailable man, never were, so don't delude yourself. She needs to concentrate on the scum she married and leave you alone.

 

Sorry, but I agree with this.

 

As for "affairing up or down," I don't think it really matters. What matters is why YOU chose to settle for someone who was married.

 

That's the real issue. Your decision to get involved with a married man. Of course he told you that you're so special to him that he couldn't help it - what else would he say?

 

If it wasn't you it probably would have been someone.

 

Improve yourself - have enough respect for yourself to reject someone who is already committed to someone else.

[Woggle]

I still can't figure out what the hell Jesse James was thinking. What was going through his head when he cheated?

[jthorne]

I believe everyone who has an affair, affairs down. It isn't just men who do it either. For someone to agree to a relationship with a married person, they have to be okay with their wants impeding others, conspiracy, and sexually sharing the married person with that person's spouse. They accept being the hidden secret. They accept their sexual health being risked.

 

The spouse married someone they (usually) didn't have to be okay with these things with. They chose exclusivity and didn't hurt others to get the relationship. They expect to be acknowledged as the spouse and do not accept being a secret. They expect their spouse to protect their sexual health.

 

I don't care what gender the cheating spouse is or if they are cheating with a married person. Their devoted spouse is a better person than they and whomever they find to have an affair with them.

 

I would agree with this. I gave up things, compromised my morals, and did things I wouldn't normally have done to be with my MM. And so did he. We both justified it because we loved each other. But yeah, we both made tradeoffs that we wouldn't have needed to make if he was single.

[bentnotbroken]

I still can't figure out what the hell Jesse James was thinking. What was going through his head when he cheated?

 

 

We know what was going through the little head, but what was going through the one with the gray matter....is any body's guess.

[Woggle]

We know what was going through the little head, but what was going through the one with the gray matter....is any body's guess.

 

I know men have different tastes but I can't even figure the first part. I have seen that type of woman that does make it look attractive but she is not one of them.

[bentnotbroken]

I know men have different tastes but I can't even figure the first part. I have seen that type of woman that does make it look attractive but she is not one of them.

 

 

We certainly agree. Mr. Messy used to tell me that a P*s*y has no face. I guess he would know better than I would.

[Woggle]

We certainly agree. Mr. Messy used to tell me that a P*s*y has no face. I guess he would know better than I would.

 

I could see that kind of logic for a single man who just wants to get laid but for a man married to a gem it is just mind boggling.

[bentnotbroken]

I could see that kind of logic for a single man who just wants to get laid but for a man married to a gem it is just mind boggling.

 

 

I completely agree. Since I was the gem:laugh:

[dreamingoftigers]

I grew up in a world where people were true to their word. Is that naive? Maybe. Does it make me stupid? I like to think not, if so it's certainly a learning curve as it probably is for many ordinarily non-stupid OW/OMs. But, when my xAP stated again and again, without any encouragement from me, that that was what he wanted regardless of the affair, I believed him. When his actions did not back up his pleas, I left, and I'm sorry I believed him in the first place.

 

If people have already proven their word to be useless by lying to their spouse it blows my mind that any OW/OM would believe that somehow their "shining goodness" would get them more respect and honesty then the person the WS committed their life to and often had children with.

[stella79]

Herenow..I agree with with what you are saying..I guess I met XMM's needs at the time..I was completely different than his W..not better. She is the mother of his children and the person he married. I stroked his ego, and he gave me false hope and the illusion af a perfect life with him..

 

I guess what it comes down to is, men seek what they are lacking inside themselves..Sex is a big issue, my XMM said he couldn't be himself around his wife, she judged him, and he was always afraid of how she would react if he wanted to try something new.

 

I do believe now that XMM's W was lashing out in pain..and so she should. I was at a low point in my life..lonely and needing someone..I know I have to work on my self esteem.. being single isn't easy..Dating a MM causes more heartache than it's worth.

Hugs Stella

[pureinheart]

Better morally? Whatever makes you feel better.

 

Maybe she is better at math and I am better at English. Whatever his needs are at the time, he will go for what he feels is better for him. Yet, this really has nothing to do with affairing up or affairing down IMHO.

 

WF, you typed the words right off my PC!!!!!!!!

[Spark1111]

I think it depends on what unmet need the affair is providing for the MP.

 

Need to feel important? You will choose an AP who hangs onto your every word.

 

Need to feel validated? Your AP will tell you how "right" you are.

 

Need to feel superior because you are feeling insecure? Well, then yes. I do not believe you are choosing an ivy-league Nobel Peace Prize laureate.

 

I think then, you affair down. Why? It makes you feel better about yourself to be with someone less than you, your education, your status. It makes you feel more important in your own eyes by seeing how far above them you are reflected back in their eyes. They are just so dang happy to be with someone as special as you....

 

That's when you "affair down," IMHO. It depends on the need you have that is going unmet in your marriage.

[ladydesigner]

I think then, you affair down. Why? It makes you feel better about yourself to be with someone less than you, your education, your status. It makes you feel more important in your own eyes by seeing how far above them you are reflected back in their eyes. They are just so dang happy to be with someone as special as you....

 

I absolutely agree with everything you said Spark. I "affaired down" because I felt a huge blow to my self-esteem from the discovery of my H's A. I embarked on my A to boost my shattered ego, not because a need wasn't being met in my M. I guess I wanted to feel worthy in someone else's eyes...my XOM. I was well above and beyond anything he could get or have, I am beautiful, intelligent, successful. He was easy to get to engage in an A with. I did not forsee myself falling for him though. I definitely "affaired down" by your terms Spark. That was an insightful post indeed.

[torranceshipman]

One guy I knew once told me that he only 'dates down'. Eww! He also cheated on his partner a lot (he was no friend of mine, I should add!-but a friend of a friend - I wouldn't hang out with an idiot like him). Anyway the word was that he 'dated down' because he always needed to feel superior to someone. It would make sense that he'd never 'date up' because a confident, attractive girl would be too much of a threat to his fragile little ego. And so I guess having flings with AP's probably made him feel like a big man too, which sounds like the type of man your MM was/is. Sad but true.

 

So yea, the WS may well have been correct....what a nasty man...I am sure the WS has seen all this before from him...

[bittersweet memories]

So, the only scenario that makes sense is that he loves Stella, but he stays with his wife because he is "not in a place" to be honest with his wife? Then because he can't tell his wife the truth (for whatever reason), he lies to the woman he really loves and tells her (Stella) that she was a mistake. Makes no sense to me at all. If this scenario is true, then why the hurtful words to the woman he loves? Why not tell Stella the truth about why he stays and that he isn't ready to leave?

 

If he really loved Stella from the start, d-day is the perfect time to prove that love. IMO, he doesn't really love anyone. But, that's just my opinion.

 

I think MM who fall in love with OW do leave. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more relationships that start as affairs than we know about. I think that many men get divorced and their BW's never find out that the next GF was really the OW.

 

Excelllent Point!! Atleast MM could of just kept his mouth shut...why even say the hatefull words to begin with. End it and move on but he went to the next level and words hurt.

[donnamaybe]

In my case, except for one (my youngest MM).. they all affaired up...

 

You mean chronologically?

[Samantha0905]

Thank-you Everyone for your encouragement and support. The e-mail and texts were so nasty (I never responded)..I took stress leave..I sat at home and hated myself..I made a bad choice, and I did have to question my own morals..

 

I guess she has to live with that man..and she does need to justify staying with him..I'm sure he will have a D-day #2, and it won't be with me!!! Big Hugs Stella

 

It sounds like she's very angry and lashing out at you. It's understandable to an extent. You are smart for not responding.

 

I think it's immature to refer to another relationship as "affairing down." Opinions of people are just that -- opinions. We all value different things in a person. The most important thing is placing value in ourselves regardless of the flaws others choose to point out in us. I'm sure we all have some things we could improve about ourselves. I'm sure we've all done wrong things at times. That applies to all the people involved in an affair situation too.

 

It's so condescending to refer to it as "affairing down." I'm saying that in general and not in response to what the BS said. As I said, she's angry and lashing out. She certainly has a right to do that for a minute or two. Hopefully, she's leaving you alone as time goes on?

[stella79]

IMO..some MM do prey on women with low self esteem, vulnerable, and trashy with no morals..Why can't people just admit that men and women fall in love all the time..just sometimes they happen to be committed to someone else.

 

What hurts me the most is, I had a 5 year platonic friendship with this man. He knew me very well, I consider myself well educated and attractive. He got me at a time when I needed a shoulder to cry on, and he did too.

Was he actually looking for an A at the time? My guess is not..neither was I.

 

If he was looking for sex only, he could have had anyone...really..He's good looking, funny, smart.."Affairing down" is a poor excuse some MM use to justify having an A "that meant nothing".. And the BW's are trying to rationalize their H's motives..MM that have meaningless flings with random women are just thrill seeking..possibly bored, not necessarily unhappy with their wives.

(Sorry for going on about this, her words got to me, and XMM is really pissing me off, not because he didn't choose me, but for his utter disrespect of me and his W)..Stella

[stella79]

Thanks Samantha! I agree with you..She is leaving me alone, but she randomly calls my work place to find out if I'm working..then hangs up...

 

I will never respond to her..She can just choose to believe her H, or not..I am finally moving on.. Stella

[herenow]

IMO..some MM do prey on women with low self esteem, vulnerable, and trashy with no morals..Why can't people just admit that men and women fall in love all the time..just sometimes they happen to be committed to someone else.

 

What hurts me the most is, I had a 5 year platonic friendship with this man. He knew me very well, I consider myself well educated and attractive. He got me at a time when I needed a shoulder to cry on, and he did too.

Was he actually looking for an A at the time? My guess is not..neither was I.

 

If he was looking for sex only, he could have had anyone...really..He's good looking, funny, smart.."Affairing down" is a poor excuse some MM use to justify having an A "that meant nothing".. And the BW's are trying to rationalize their H's motives..MM that have meaningless flings with random women are just thrill seeking..possibly bored, not necessarily unhappy with their wives.

(Sorry for going on about this, her words got to me, and XMM is really pissing me off, not because he didn't choose me, but for his utter disrespect of me and his W)..Stella

 

Well, there are also those who can't admit that some of these men really do love their wives. Some BW's don't look to rationalize anything. They kick their cheating H's to the curb. And sometimes when the MM is faced with the reality of losing his wife, he realizes how much he really does love her. Then the begging begins.

 

I do believe that some MM fall in love with OW. I also believe that when they fall in love, they do what it takes to be with the person they truly love.

 

An "honest" person wouldn't stay married to someone they don't love for many reasons. One being that it would be unfair to deny their BS a chance to be with someone who really loves him or her.

 

IMO, a person who has an affair in the first place will more than likely do what is best for them. If money and status come first, then how can it be true love?

 

As far as staying for the kids. That is the best excuse for a MM to give and OW. It gets him off the hook for staying with his wife. It makes him look like a good guy. Truth is, IMO, the type of man to make such a sacrifice for his kids, isn't going o have an affair in the first place.

 

As I said before, I don't think a MM is affairing up or down. He is filling a need and I'm not sure it really matters if the OW is better or worse than his BW as long as that need is met. He may not really love either woman. And, IMO, until he faces his own issues and is able to fill his own needs, he will continue his pattern of self-destructive behavior. Again, it's not about the BW or the OW. It's about the MM and his personal desires. It becomes about the BW and OW when the MM is forced to chose, or one (or both) of the woman decide he isn't worth the pain. JMO

Edited April 14, 2010 by herenow

[pureinheart]

Well, there are also those who can't admit that some of these men really do love their wives. Some BW's don't look to rationalize anything. They kick their cheating H's to the curb. And sometimes when the MM is faced with the reality of losing his wife, he realizes how much he really does love her. Then the begging begins.

 

I do believe that some MM fall in love with OW. I also believe that when they fall in love, they do what it takes to be with the person they truly love.

 

An "honest" person wouldn't stay married to someone they don't love for many reasons. One being that it would be unfair to deny their BS a chance to be with someone who really loves him or her.

 

IMO, a person who has an affair in the first place will more than likely do what is best for them. If money and status come first, then how can it be true love?

 

As far as staying for the kids. That is the best excuse for a MM to give and OW. It gets him off the hook for staying with his wife. It makes him look like a good guy. Truth is, IMO, the type of man to make such a sacrifice for his kids, isn't going o have an affair in the first place.

 

As I said before, I don't think a MM is affairing up or down. He is filling a need and I'm not sure it really matters if the OW is better or worse than his BW as long as that need is met. He may not really love either woman. And, IMO, until he faces his own issues and is able to fill his own needs, he will continue his pattern of self-destructive behavior. Again, it's not about the BW or the OW. It's about the MM and his personal desires. It becomes about the BW and OW when the MM is forced to chose, or one (or both) of the woman decide he isn't worth the pain. JMO

 

Hi HN...

 

In listening to many guys, my former industry employed many more men than women...we all used to go to the local "watering hole" after work sometimes (that is when you really see the true self).

 

I used to get soooo pissed because during various partying instances, there would be other people from the co down the street from my building...I seriously would have to say straight up "are you M"...only one of them lied in a 25 yr stent.

 

To my point, in most cases I would say these guys know exactly what their doing. I think they know in advance whether the W will leave or not. I really believe few of them are taken by surprise, especially in long term A's.

 

HN, I remember you back in the day, you always present yourself in a very worthy manor ...thanks.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't think it matters if someone else feels that the MM "affaired-down".

 

If I were to have slept with any of the MM that have hit on me over the years, it would have been considered "affairing down" too. The banker's W would have seen me as a dumb, college student looking for a sugar daddy - regardless of the fact that her H was the one approaching me with gifts everytime I entered his branch. The boss's W would have seen me as an opportunistic whore trying to move up the ladder quicker at her H's company - even though he told his best friend that he hired me because he wanted to beatify the office, plus he might get lucky and get laid in the deal. My ex from high school's W would have felt that I was getting her back for messing with him when we dated back then.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

And notice that I only give the opinions of the BW. It is likely to be friends of the BW, the BW, and friends of the marriage (and of marriage in general) that will feel that the MM "affaired down". And I say this while feeling that my middle management H having an OW that was basically just one of the firm's many administrative assistants. See how I did that?

 

Its always subjective. And its meant to say "You are out of your league."

[White Flower]

I don't know if I'm way off base but I'm going to post about my MM's past loves. I think he affaired up with all of them, or at least most. Most have degrees, drive elegant cars, live in affluent neighborhoods, and have successful business. There is only one I can think of that struggled a little and his A with her didn't last as long as most.

 

I think there is an idea among BW that affairing down means morally down while many OW look at the class. If we look at the moral issue, then sure we can call it affairing down, er...uh...laterally, or even up depending on how many offenses MM has.

 

If we look at the class issue, then it depends on which class MM comes from and which class he wanders into with OW.

 

My MM came from a low-middle class family and, I believe, married into a middle-high class family. He married up. And I think in most cases he affaired up.

 

Back to the moral issue; if MM has 10 A offenses and takes up with an OW with a first-time offense, I think he has affaired up, no?

[OWoman]

Its always subjective. And its meant to say "You are out of your league."

 

Sure. But in choosing which aspects to pick on (and they have to be aspects where the person doing the comparison is on safe ground), the person doing the comparison is revealing more about themselves, and their priorities, than they are about the person they are trying to diss. If, as in your examples, a banker's W chooses to position you as a gold-digging college student, she's essentially saying that to her wealth / assets matter more than intelligence (since the "college student" is meant as a diss - someone with few assets, rather than someone smart enough to go to college while she sits at home and arranges flowers!). Similarly, the boss's W painting you as opportunistic is revealing that she considers ambition in women to be bad / threatening / unbecoming - implying her own passivity, lack of get-up-and-go and view of women's role in life.

 

The OW in those cases (the hypothetical "you") could equally claim that affairing up was taking place - in the first instance, a woman with brains rather than mere materialistic possessions; in the second, a woman with drive, ambition and agency, not some mere arm candy.

 

Both women are assuming that the MM would of necessity share THEIR view on the matter, and THEIR priorities: in the BWs instance, because he M her, she has a sense of their "shared values" and feels she knows what REALLY matters to the MM. To the OW, she feels she has been CHOSEN by the MM, that he's voting with his feet to endorse her and her set of values over that of the woman he's become stuck with (who may have evolved a quite different set of values over time from those he was originally attracted to - as may he!). Both assume the higher ground; both regard their views as the one the MM would share, thus the "true" one.

[crazycatlady]

Sure. But in choosing which aspects to pick on (and they have to be aspects where the person doing the comparison is on safe ground), the person doing the comparison is revealing more about themselves, and their priorities, than they are about the person they are trying to diss. If, as in your examples, a banker's W chooses to position you as a gold-digging college student, she's essentially saying that to her wealth / assets matter more than intelligence (since the "college student" is meant as a diss - someone with few assets, rather than someone smart enough to go to college while she sits at home and arranges flowers!). Similarly, the boss's W painting you as opportunistic is revealing that she considers ambition in women to be bad / threatening / unbecoming - implying her own passivity, lack of get-up-and-go and view of women's role in life.

 

The OW in those cases (the hypothetical "you") could equally claim that affairing up was taking place - in the first instance, a woman with brains rather than mere materialistic possessions; in the second, a woman with drive, ambition and agency, not some mere arm candy.

 

Both women are assuming that the MM would of necessity share THEIR view on the matter, and THEIR priorities: in the BWs instance, because he M her, she has a sense of their "shared values" and feels she knows what REALLY matters to the MM. To the OW, she feels she has been CHOSEN by the MM, that he's voting with his feet to endorse her and her set of values over that of the woman he's become stuck with (who may have evolved a quite different set of values over time from those he was originally attracted to - as may he!). Both assume the higher ground; both regard their views as the one the MM would share, thus the "true" one.

 

Now that's interesting, OW (and lately your posts have really made me go hmmm) and it makes me wonder what my first reaction of fiding out about the affair and everything, what it says about my insecurities...

 

CCL