Joel Osteen

[jcil]

I have seen some ministries harp on prosperity way too much, nearly everytime I checked out their TV ministry. But I've also seen them later, and some of them have backed away from making that their main message. If you have ever been poor, you can understand why Jesus did say that He came that we might have life, and that more abundantly. The problem is that some have taken this out of the spiritual context that Jesus taught it in. If on the other hand, you condemn any preacher that talks about God prospering us, you will have to condemn Jesus also, along with some very fine men of God.

[jcil]

I just want to be clear. I hate also how some preachers twisted God's concern for our welfare, ans His willingnes to bless us, into a greed and money centered message. One famous preacher had God deal with him on this issue, while he was preaching in a very poor country overseas. He was about to make an appeal for money for his ministry, when he realized that most of them were much poorer than he. He said later that God is not a lottery. We don't give because we're hoping to hit the jackpot, and make lots of moolah. God rewards the sincere and honest effort to help others, and to further the Good News.

Our money and resources can be seed, and will come back to us in a harvest, but the seed that Jesus spoke of is His Word. And though the reaping and sowing principle applies in every aspect of our lives, we do not give so that we may recieve. But those who give in obedience, out of a pure heart, even knowing that they will be rewarded, will reap from their giving, because they have done it unto God with a pure heart.

There is a place in the preaching and teaching of God's word, for the subject of God prospering us. But it should be done in righteousness, as God leads us, and not in greed, and carnality.

[jcil]

Lisa, even though this thread is supposed to be kind of about Osteen, I haven't really been talkng about him specifically for some time. I'm sorry if you got that idea. All I said was that we shouldn't condemn someone for merely having the subject of prosperity include in a message over the pulpit or anywhere. And again, I wasn't applying this to him specifically, but in the general sense. I did not say that I like "prosperity" preachers, that is those who put our prosperity above all else, and make a God out of money. I really don't know that much about Joel Osteen. I thought I made that clear.

But tell me why Job is a bad example. Even the law said that those who walk in a covenant with God would be blessed by Him. Don't be so irrational in hating prosperity preachers, that no preacher can even mention prosperity without getting your dander up. I made myself pretty clear about how I see this issue. But some people love to throw around accusations, particularly about preachers. Did you read my later posts? Doesn't sound like it. Don't be blinded by hate.

[jcil]

I read the web page that James M gave the link to. The author attacked true spiritual principles that are commonly taught by those who have been filled with the Holy Spirit. But that may be part of the problem. I can pretty much tell that the author probably also doesn't believe in receiving the Holy Spirit, as the original disciples did on the day of Pentecost. I don't defend the "blab it and grab it" philosophy. But John said that we will have what we ask of God if we know that it is His will. Proverbs does say that we eat the fruit of our tongue, that is the words we speak. And James compared the tongue to the rudder of a ship, and said that a fountain should not give both sweet and bitter water.

But the implication, or accusation of some like this man is, that if you even teach the principles from the Bible that tell us that our words have power, you are teaching false doctrine. You can have a revelation from God about the principles involved in receiving things from God without being greedy. You can also attempt to take good things from God, and use them to feed your lust.

The author on James' link does mention some preachers that fall into the category of those who have said some stupid things about prosperity. But some of them just teach some principles from the Bible that He obviously does not understand. But they all have this in common, they believe in recieving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which I suspect this man does not.

 

Jesus said that He was with His disciples, but He will be in them. He commanded them to wait in Jerusalem till the Holy Spirit was poured out, and they would be endued with Power from on High. This was described by Jesus, as John quoted Him, as how He would bring to remembrance His words to the disciples. And when God brings things to our hearts and minds, He opens our understanding. It is the illumination of Gods Spirit on His word, that give us understanding, as is even shown in the placing of the candles by the shew bread, by God, in the tabernacle in the wilderness.

Paul said that we should "rightly divide the word of truth ". Without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, as in the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", you cannot go far in this. Jesus spent much time talking to His disciples about the Holy Spirit. As He said also, unless we are born again, of the water and the Spirit, we cannot even see the kingdom of God. I urge you all to repent and surrender to God's will, and all that He has for you, and for you to do, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the Name of Jesus Christ, for the complete forgiveness of your sins, and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, as the believers did on the day of Pentecost, which is what Peter, who gave this command, was talking about. God bless you, and fill you all with the Holy Spirit which He has promised you, in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.

[jcil]

Lisa, how can you judge a preacher of God's word, if you don't even believe that the Bible is the word of God. You would be much better off reading the bible yourself and asking God to fill you with the Holy Spirit, and guide your study of His word, than to listen to professors tell you that "scholars" say that it is not really the word of God.

[NoIDidn't]

I am not a fan of anything on TBN. Joel Osteen has the thickest accent. I can't stand to hear it, honestly. I really can't get past that thick drawl of his to even understand his messages. I have looked into a book or two of his, though. At least he isn't peddling "Money coming, money coming" crap.

 

I'll give him that.