Improving sex life without changing anything!?

[Honorable_Venerable]

I guess I am just seriously baffled by this..how is there a "right answer" when it comes to how someone gets pleasure from sex? Also, how can it be "right" to enjoy 69 as a single person in a relationship but not within marriage? If she had never enjoyed these things then it would be easier to understand but the 180 she has done...

 

I am sure you are MORE than baffled by the whole situation, but like most everyone is saying you can't change her or this way of thinking. Do you have children??

 

Because married people should have a different expectation (apparently)! Same as married people don't go out socially on their own. When you're single you can do certain things (go out, flirt, f*** like a beast), when you're married, you don't. That may not be the truth, but it's the "right answer"!

[giotto]

If she enjoyed them she would have kept doing them post marriage. The fact that she IMMEDIATELY shut most of their sexual practices down after marriage is de facto proof she didn't like them.

 

 

I agree with this as well... my wife liked being given oral when we were dating, but she doesn't now... I haven't asked, because I don't mind, but that's unexplicable... also, now she likes doing things she didn't like at the time...

[LonelyTiger]

I feel very sorry for your situation HV. Sorry for you and sorry for your wife. Your original question was how could you improve your sex life without changing anything?

 

A lot of people have said a lot of things here but the truthful answer is 'you can't'!

 

Your wife has issues, she will almost certainly NEVER have an orgasm from intercourse. I'm beginning to agree with another poster here that she may well have been faking all the orgasms she had before marriage. She's being dishonest with you somewhere along the line. Either that or something nasty happened on your honeymoon to turn her off sex.

 

It's not your responsiblity to give make her have an orgasm in a particular way (or in any way). It seems to me that she really believes sex is dirty and wants you to take all the responsiblity for anything sexual that occurs between you. That way she can still tell herself she's 'pure' and blameless and this heinous thing you are doing to her (and she feels she has to allow you to do because she is your wife) is nothing whatsoever to do with her. She wants an orgasm of course, because she is human (and therefore a sexual being whether she likes it or not), but she's not willing to take any responsibility for it. Most of us know, sexual satifaction doesn't work that way.

 

As I said before, I do really feel for you. You have options, you know what they are - tough choice - good luck to you.

[giotto]

I don't think we asked you this in the thread... do you have children? And if so, how old are they? Do you love your wife? It's just to have a better picture... I'm not insinuating anything...

[Luv2dance]

I don't think we asked you this in the thread... do you have children? And if so, how old are they? Do you love your wife? It's just to have a better picture... I'm not insinuating anything...

 

I did ask b/c I am wondering how she treats the children...

 

As a man - this puts you in a difficult position. Me personally I would have walked away from this as I think it is a cold and calculating type of deceit. And YES I take my vows seriously - but a union formed thru deception is not a valid marriage in my opinion.

 

I agree, if she really did those things JUST to get married and completely changed her "beliefs" after marriage then it was a marriage based on deception. We all change and may enjoy things more or less as time goes on, but I think you should grow CLOSER not APART.

 

Still would love to know where she gets the idea that "married" people don't do these things???

[xxoo]

She isn't happy with the status quo, though - she complains that she doesn't come during sex, and that I need to make more effort (without changing what I do or how I do it).

 

Well, that is pretty much a no-win situation (do better, but don't change what you are doing).

 

You love her, so you want this to work out. Does she love you? Is she sabotaging you? Pushing you away intentionally?

 

She complains taht she doesn't come? "Let me know what I can do, baby. I'm happy to perform any service at all. I love to make you quiver." But don't come to her rescue. Ball is in her court.

 

She claims that it is your responsibility to know what to do? "I wish I did, but it is your body. Not mine. I'll do anything you ask, baby."

[MichelleZB]

Is there a redeeming feature to your marriage with this cruel woman? She seems to enjoy putting you into impossible situations. She's not getting off, but she certainly seems to get off on making you confused and miserable. Divorce.

[mem11363]

Michelle,

I think your comment below is a quantifiably true statement.

 

I believe there was earlier reference to 30 minutes of intercourse. At risk of self humiliation - I have NEVER lasted 30 minutes. I did time us a couple times and I can go 10 minutes and if I was really well rested AND trying to set a record think I could go 15 minutes. But that is it. While I believe HV that he can/does go 30 minutes I will say that his stamina puts him in at the very least the upper 10th percentile - I actually think more likely the upper 5th percentile in terms of male sexual stamina.

 

So - ummm - she is asking for an absolutely incredible - marathon performance EACH TIME. And she puts it on HIM when she doesn't get there.

 

Put it together though - kind of like the perfect storm here. Almost everyone I know how has a meaningful screen name - the name tells you a lot about them. My read is that HV is honorable and very honest.

 

My observation has been that honest people simply tend to be more trusting than average. Combine an honest trusting person with a person who has a concealed plan and you get - well - this outcome. And naughty people - naughty being the most polite synonym I can come up with for his wife - have a remarkably good radar for identifying honest/honorable people.

 

Being that he truly is honorable, unless HV can "prove" intent, that she tricked him from the get go - he won't divorce her. Because he made a wedding vow that he views as unbreakable. And intent is the hardest thing in the world to prove so it looks as if she is safe from that consequence.

 

Her behavior towards him says a lot about the accuracy of his name. She felt so certain he would honor his vows no matter what that she immediately dropped her sexual game after they married. She didn't even try to play the "gradual loss of interest" game. She blatantly changed their sexual routine and flat out told him to deal with it.

 

 

 

Is there a redeeming feature to your marriage with this cruel woman? She seems to enjoy putting you into impossible situations. She's not getting off, but she certainly seems to get off on making you confused and miserable. Divorce.

[Honorable_Venerable]

My wife has many positive qualities

She’s a wonderful mother to our two daughters (10 and 8) – loving, thoughtful, helpful. Her only faults in this regard are a tendency to lecture at them until their eyes glaze over about anything important and her unshakeable conviction that they’re both going to Oxford or Cambridge!

 

When I had a cancer scare a couple of years ago (came to nothing but not very nice while it lasted) and after I was in a car crash she couldn’t have been kinder

 

She’s clever, intelligent, witty, thoughtful, an expert in her work field. She bent over backwards to help me in my career. We both re-schedule our work commitments around each other, when we have (e.g.) meetings we have to go away for – she never tells me that what I have to do isn’t important, and I do the same for her

 

She doesn’t take me for granted in terms of money (since she works part time mine is the major salary), appreciates the help I put in around the house (cooking, cleaning, gardening, ironing

 

She tolerates my hobbies (wargaming and fishing), and knows I fully support hers

 

It is just the sex aspect. How much grief in the word "just":eek:

Edited April 22, 2010 by Honorable_Venerable

[Luv2dance]

Her behavior towards him says a lot about the accuracy of his name. She felt so certain he would honor his vows no matter what that she immediately dropped her sexual game after they married. She didn't even try to play the "gradual loss of interest" game. She blatantly changed their sexual routine and flat out told him to deal with it.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head!! This is the saddest story I have ever heard when it comes to marriage and sex.

 

My wife has many positive qualities

She’s a wonderful mother to our two daughters (10 and 8) – loving, thoughtful, helpful. Her only faults in this regard are a tendency to lecture at them until their eyes glaze over about anything important and her unshakeable conviction that they’re both going to Oxford or Cambridge!

 

When I had a cancer scare a couple of years ago (came to nothing but not very nice while it lasted) and after I was in a car crash she couldn’t have been kinder

 

She’s clever, intelligent, witty, thoughtful, an expert in her work field. She bent over backwards to help me in my career. We both re-schedule our work commitments around each other, when we have (e.g.) meetings we have to go away for – she never tells me that what I have to do isn’t important, and I do the same for her

 

She doesn’t take me for granted in terms of money (since she works part time mine is the major salary), appreciates the help I put in around the house (cooking, cleaning, gardening, ironing

 

She tolerates my hobbies (wargaming and fishing), and knows I fully support hers

 

It is just the sex aspect. How much grief in the word "just":eek:

 

I'd say she's definitely clever, but I am not sure how she is thoughtful when she treats you with blatant disregard of your feelings, wants and needs. I am glad you feel as though the rest of the relationship is ok though at least you have a good partnership.

 

She complains that she doesn't come? "Let me know what I can do, baby. I'm happy to perform any service at all. I love to make you quiver." But don't come to her rescue. Ball is in her court.

 

I think this is the best you can do or try!!

[naturegirl]

Your intentions seem genuine. I am assuming you have spoken honestly with her about her expectations and with all the limitations she puts into what is supposed to be a wonderful and FUN activity between two people in love with each other.

 

One observation is she seems very rigid in her ideas. One way to "loosen" her up a little may be to try and get her to watch Sex in the City episodes. You could watch them with her. They may actually help her realize how frigid she is and help her realize sex can be great fun and she can be a willing and active participant without being a bad person.

 

Another option would be to take her away somewhere. Romance her. If she doesn't like foreplay, create a different type of foreplay by setting the mood--some candles, some good tunes playing in the background, a nice massage, tell her what you would like to do to her, but don't go right to it.

Touch her other body parts with something soft until she is begging you to go at it. That may get her closer to orgasm before you begin the 30 minute marathan.

 

Good luck, Dude.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Your intentions seem genuine. I am assuming you have spoken honestly with her about her expectations and with all the limitations she puts into what is supposed to be a wonderful and FUN activity between two people in love with each other.

 

One observation is she seems very rigid in her ideas. One way to "loosen" her up a little may be to try and get her to watch Sex in the City episodes. You could watch them with her. They may actually help her realize how frigid she is and help her realize sex can be great fun and she can be a willing and active participant without being a bad person.

 

Another option would be to take her away somewhere. Romance her. If she doesn't like foreplay, create a different type of foreplay by setting the mood--some candles, some good tunes playing in the background, a nice massage, tell her what you would like to do to her, but don't go right to it.

Touch her other body parts with something soft until she is begging you to go at it. That may get her closer to orgasm before you begin the 30 minute marathan.

 

Good luck, Dude.

Thanks. She watched sex in the city. Her opinion was that the main characters were inane, vapid and lazy - and those were their plus points! Her idea of great TV is Lark Rise to Candleford or Miss Marple!

 

I do take her way, just the two of us, at least once a year (usually twice if I can get the inlaws to have the kids). We have a great time, go somewhere lovely and really enjoy ourselves - outside the bedroom...

 

I've tried (oh, have a tried!) to tell her what I'd like to do with her, but she won't let me! That's the problem!

[MichelleZB]

I just find it difficult to believe that a thoughtful, kind person would treat their partner this infamously--would put someone they loved and respected through so much pain and confusion. It doesn't seem fair.

 

If she really is as supportive as you say in other areas, I can only assume that she doesn't know how much this is crushing you inside. Does she know?

[silverfish]

Does she read at all HV?

I agree with a previous poster that it doesn't sound like she's at all sexually aware and maybe has never had an orgasm or has faked it, or is in denial in some way of her own sexuality. Is she an intellectual? Did she have any depression / surgery after childbirth (eg episiotomy) that would reduce sensitivity?

 

It sounds like she is incredibly insecure about sex, and has always been that way. There are a lot of older women (20 yrs older than her) for whom this was the norm, and your W sounds like she hasn't moved with the times at all. Is she a feminist? Would she read any 'feminist' writers such as Simone de Beauvoir or Germaine Greer who talk about female sexuality?

[mem11363]

SF,

Sexually she was open and varied UNTIL THEY GOT MARRIED. So when she had a goal - she was happy to focus on pleasing HIM. Once goal (marriage) was achieved she shut him down.

 

His window of opportunity for dealing with this was the 2 years they were married BEFORE their first child. Once child number 1 was conceived this became a done deal.

 

So she is fully aware of what a varied sex life is and equally aware how important it is to males and to HV as she used it to extract a proposal from him.

 

Does she read at all HV?

I agree with a previous poster that it doesn't sound like she's at all sexually aware and maybe has never had an orgasm or has faked it, or is in denial in some way of her own sexuality. Is she an intellectual? Did she have any depression / surgery after childbirth (eg episiotomy) that would reduce sensitivity?

 

It sounds like she is incredibly insecure about sex, and has always been that way. There are a lot of older women (20 yrs older than her) for whom this was the norm, and your W sounds like she hasn't moved with the times at all. Is she a feminist? Would she read any 'feminist' writers such as Simone de Beauvoir or Germaine Greer who talk about female sexuality?

[You Go Girl]

It looks like this is truly a comfort zone issue with your wife. She isn't comfortable being the 'bad' girl she was when you were dating. Once married, she asserted her true feelings on sexual variation.

My first choice is missionary...not every time, but often, is that wrong? Not really, because I love the feel of a man's weight atop me. I'm trying to understand her here...and be understanding to how she feels.

One thing that works for me is passionate kissing beforehand. Does she like tongue kissing? Not sloppy, not checking for cavities with your tongue, but, a slow dance with each other's tongues?

For old fashioned good girls, perhaps this she would find arousing.

Another thing she might like is a gentle slow arousal. She might feel less intimidated by slow caresses to her body. She probably would be ok with nipple stimulation? Kissing the tops of her feet to her neck? All these things might be within her comfort zone.

I'm not going to go as far as others and say that she did the bait and switch. Perhaps she didn't think she could get a husband without being more varied than she was truly comfortable with, and didn't realize herself that she was going to change her boundaries.

I think that's what it really boils down to. She thinks that what she did before you were married is "BAD".

Assuming she sticks to her criteria of what a 'good woman' will do and don't, the best thing to do is to bring her to orgasm more quickly, because you seem to be required to be superhero husband.

I don't think I'm a prude because I don't want to do "x". (Fill in the blank with something you don't want to do). Others may find me having too strict of boundaries. It's all relative, nobody is right, nobody is wrong. What is right is finding what works between you and your wife.

One thing I would pay very close attention to is whether she likes to be touched gently and slowly, and gradually increase to more robust touch. In this case you may not be able to ask her, she may not know. So I would listen to her breathing!

[Mr White]

It looks like this is truly a comfort zone issue with your wife. She isn't comfortable being the 'bad' girl she was when you were dating. Once married, she asserted her true feelings on sexual variation.

My first choice is missionary...not every time, but often, is that wrong? Not really, because I love the feel of a man's weight atop me. I'm trying to understand her here...and be understanding to how she feels.

One thing that works for me is passionate kissing beforehand. Does she like tongue kissing? Not sloppy, not checking for cavities with your tongue, but, a slow dance with each other's tongues?

For old fashioned good girls, perhaps this she would find arousing.

Another thing she might like is a gentle slow arousal. She might feel less intimidated by slow caresses to her body. She probably would be ok with nipple stimulation? Kissing the tops of her feet to her neck? All these things might be within her comfort zone.

I'm not going to go as far as others and say that she did the bait and switch. Perhaps she didn't think she could get a husband without being more varied than she was truly comfortable with, and didn't realize herself that she was going to change her boundaries.

I think that's what it really boils down to. She thinks that what she did before you were married is "BAD".

Assuming she sticks to her criteria of what a 'good woman' will do and don't, the best thing to do is to bring her to orgasm more quickly, because you seem to be required to be superhero husband.

I don't think I'm a prude because I don't want to do "x". (Fill in the blank with something you don't want to do). Others may find me having too strict of boundaries. It's all relative, nobody is right, nobody is wrong. What is right is finding what works between you and your wife.

One thing I would pay very close attention to is whether she likes to be touched gently and slowly, and gradually increase to more robust touch. In this case you may not be able to ask her, she may not know. So I would listen to her breathing!

 

 

There is nothing wrong with having sexual boundaries, even if very rigid ones, so all of the above theorising is moot.

 

The true problem, the despicable act here is that she tricked him. She pretended to be something she is not - until she got what she wanted. That attitude alone is grounds for divorce in my book.

[xxoo]

There is nothing wrong with having sexual boundaries, even if very rigid ones, so all of the above theorising is moot.

 

The true problem, the despicable act here is that she tricked him. She pretended to be something she is not - until she got what she wanted. That attitude alone is grounds for divorce in my book.

 

I tend to agree, but these changes happened immediately after the honeymoon. That would have been the time to leave (in the first 2 years, before kids, as mem suggested). Staying, having kids, and building a life together is pretty much agreeing to the circumstances.

 

In a way, HV has pretended to be something he is not for all the years past the honeymoon, while actively deepening the commitment (in my experience, sharing kids and a mortgage is a much bigger commitment than sharing a marriage certificate).

 

I'm not saying what she did was ok. I'm just saying that there is some blame to go around for the current state of affairs.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Does she read at all HV?

I agree with a previous poster that it doesn't sound like she's at all sexually aware and maybe has never had an orgasm or has faked it,

 

See above - I have good reason to not think so, bt thanks.

 

or is in denial in some way of her own sexuality.

 

This I'm not sure about - in denial or too sure of what it should be?

 

Is she an intellectual?

 

Yes! Very much so - far more than I am (although my academic qualifications are higher).

 

Did she have any depression / surgery after childbirth (eg episiotomy) that would reduce sensitivity?

 

No ,nothing at all like that.

 

It sounds like she is incredibly insecure about sex, and has always been that way. There are a lot of older women (20 yrs older than her) for whom this was the norm, and your W sounds like she hasn't moved with the times at all. Is she a feminist? Would she read any 'feminist' writers such as Simone de Beauvoir or Germaine Greer who talk about female sexuality?

 

Her take on feminism is that people (women) can have it all, but there are prices to pay. She has limited time, unfortunately to read for pure pleasure / interest. She's a linguistics scholar and a lot of her reading time is reading classics or commentaries on them in the original language, to keep herself fluent / current. I'll suggest it. Thanks.

[Mr White]

I tend to agree, but these changes happened immediately after the honeymoon. That would have been the time to leave (in the first 2 years, before kids, as mem suggested). Staying, having kids, and building a life together is pretty much agreeing to the circumstances.

 

In a way, HV has pretended to be something he is not for all the years past the honeymoon, while actively deepening the commitment (in my experience, sharing kids and a mortgage is a much bigger commitment than sharing a marriage certificate).

 

I'm not saying what she did was ok. I'm just saying that there is some blame to go around for the current state of affairs.

 

Sure, that's true. The sad, sad, sad lesson here is that you can't give the benefit of the doubt to anybody - even to your spouse. Because before you know it it's too late and it has came around to bite you in the azz.

It is much better to create conflict early on rather than try softer tactics thereby tacitly accepting the circumstances.

[xxoo]

It is much better to create conflict early on rather than try softer tactics thereby tacitly accepting the circumstances.

 

Omg, this is so, so true. I wonder how many relationships suffer long term because one partner or the other was avoiding conflict early on? That's how resentment plants its seed and grows roots....

[You Go Girl]

Omg, this is so, so true. I wonder how many relationships suffer long term because one partner or the other was avoiding conflict early on? That's how resentment plants its seed and grows roots....

 

This is not only so true to marriages--but let's go back to the dating years.

We all do this to some degree, those less experienced moreso than others.

I have done this--avoided conflict, but only in hopes of keeping everything as close to romantically perfect as possible before marriage.

Don't we all do this? And don't we do this in what we think is the best interest of the relationship?

This is the behavior we need to stop. I have so painfully learned this...I have done this without realizing the consequences that arise later.

[MichelleZB]

She's a linguistics scholar and a lot of her reading time is reading classics or commentaries on them in the original language, to keep herself fluent / current.

 

My sister is a linguistics major with a minor in classics. I'll have to say I'm surprised to learn this about your wife. She reads classics all the time, but somehow has a low tolerance for 'filth'? How does she reconcile this?

 

Ovid's The Art of Love, anyone?

[giotto]

Omg, this is so, so true. I wonder how many relationships suffer long term because one partner or the other was avoiding conflict early on?

 

 

Mine... I would get upset (for whatever reason... raising the children or sex, usually), but then I would quickly make the first move to put things right, even if it wasn't my fault... see where we are now...

[LonelyTiger]

Omg, this is so, so true. I wonder how many relationships suffer long term because one partner or the other was avoiding conflict early on? That's how resentment plants its seed and grows roots....

 

Wow, you're right there. My ex always avoided conflict and although conflict doesn't usually bother me, for some reason we couldn't discuss sex. The resentment grew more than just roots over the years and the resulting conflict completely destroyed our marriage. I'm now a big fan of 100% openness and honesty right from the start.