Improving sex life without changing anything!?

[Honorable_Venerable]

MichelleZB,

 

Okay, and sorry for additional questions, but I'm trying to figure out her sexual response. If might have a few pointers--from an extremely orgasmic woman--but I need to know how she works.

 

How long ago were you married? (I.E. when did the intercourse orgasms stop?) How old was she then and how old is she now?

Been married twelve years – and yes, this isn’t the first time I’ve tried to improve matters! Didn’t know about this place until relatively recently. She’s 38 now, was 26 at the time of marriage. We weren’t virgins when we started sleeping together, both having had a few, moderate length relationships before.

 

And before you were married, what was different about the intercourse you had then? When she had orgasms during intercourse, were you guys in a different position? Did you or she have a finger involved? Or were you still doing missionary mostly?

Yes, she orgasmed regularly during intercourse, with and without fingers, in different positions, manual, oral, 69 – a varied sex life, IMO. All of which stopped when we got back off our honeymoon!

Also, back when she had orgasms during sex, how were they timed? Did she have one well before your orgasm, pretty close to your orgasm, or well after your orgasm? (I.E. did you have to go at it twice or something for her to get there?)

Usually pretty close to (shortly before mine), sometimes more than one, especially if it was a second bout of sex.

 

When she allows you to finger her now, how wet is she--or do you use lube? How long do you usually have to rub, and do you finger just her clit, her vagina, or a little of both?

Soaking! If she doesn’t get wet quickly, she’ll just say “It isn’t working, forget it”. Never uses and never has used lube. She comes quickly (I don’t keep records – around three to five minutes is the norm, certainly never as long as 10). Clit, labia, perineum (very very carefully – anything anal is a BIG no-no), especially the front wall of the vagina internally.

 

TNTTIM – your analogy with the cake is misguided at best. At worst it shows a total lack of empathy and understanding with the most basis human psychology. Console yourself that even the wisest court needs its jester.

[xxoo]

Yes, she orgasmed regularly during intercourse, with and without fingers, in different positions, manual, oral, 69 – a varied sex life, IMO. All of which stopped when we got back off our honeymoon!.

 

That is really mind boggling

 

It sounds like she still enjoys sex, but is very limited in her "comfort zone". Do you think that she enjoys sex? Does she initiate, or seem pleased when you initiate?

 

Other than the 30 min marathons (and probably wishing for more variety in sex), it sounds like you enjoy sex with her and love her a lot. True?

 

Which comes full circle to two people who love each other and enjoy sex, but one person can no longer keep up with the 30 min marathons. That is the message to communicate: I CAN'T do this, and we need to find another way. And then don't do it. Once that is out, surely she'll be open to some more manual stimulation at the very least to get her satisfaction.

[Honorable_Venerable]

That is really mind boggling

 

It sounds like she still enjoys sex, but is very limited in her "comfort zone". Do you think that she enjoys sex? Does she initiate, or seem pleased when you initiate?

Yes, I think so – otherwise she wouldn’t want it make it so she came during sex. She never initiates. Her comfort zone went from apparently very wide to very narrow very fast. Some of the time, she simply knocks me back very brusquely, but if she feels like she does seem pleased (sometimes very) that I make the effort – it’s as if she sees no reason whatsoever to make any effort herself.

 

Other than the 30 min marathons (and probably wishing for more variety in sex), it sounds like you enjoy sex with her and love her a lot. True?

Yes, very much.

 

Which comes full circle to two people who love each other and enjoy sex, but one person can no longer keep up with the 30 min marathons. That is the message to communicate: I CAN'T do this, and we need to find another way. And then don't do it. Once that is out, surely she'll be open to some more manual stimulation at the very least to get her satisfaction.

I’m not sure – she seems to love it when it happens, but if I withdrew, she wonder if she’d care. I did try withdrawing from it once, but after six months of abstinence, I was the one who “blinked”.

I simply cannot fathom why we got back from honeymoon all those years ago and she suddenly withdrew from practices she had enjoyed, initiated and demanded we do literally days before.

[VeronicaL]

I feel sorry for your wife, she must want to improve is she has said she wants to orgasm more but it sounds to me is is very afraid of sex and possibly her own body. If she is afraid then she probally doesn't know what will work better for her, so it takes the pressure off by saying you should know.

 

My husband and I have different problems to you but in our search to make things better we found the book by Relate, Sex in Loving Relationships

 

It starts off by exposing a few myths (like men should know how to bring their woman to orgasm instinctivly!!) and prompting you to both talk about your attitude to sex and where it came from, it then moves through book suggesting ways of getting to know your own and each others bodies better, what you like and don't like etc.

 

I would certainly suggest this book and maybe sex therapy.

 

My advise is don't push your wife but slowly and surely get her talking about what could be very deep routed issues for her

 

Good luck

[LonelyTiger]

I simply cannot fathom why we got back from honeymoon all those years ago and she suddenly withdrew from practices she had enjoyed, initiated and demanded we do literally days before.

 

I have been following your thread HV but I haven't really got any words of wisdom, unless you can persuade your wife to see a counsellor - either with or without you.

 

However, what you wrote here just jumped out at me. Maybe I've missed something in your posts but did anything unpleasant/nasty happen on (or towards the end of) your honeymoon? Even something your wife could have just perceived as unpleasant? Or could something have happened to her on your honeymoon that you may not be aware of?

[Honorable_Venerable]

 

My husband and I have different problems to you but in our search to make things better we found the book by Relate, Sex in Loving Relationships

 

 

 

I would certainly suggest this book and maybe sex therapy.

 

My advise is don't push your wife but slowly and surely get her talking about what could be very deep routed issues for her

 

Good luck

 

This is the very same book she described as "filth" - sorry!

[Honorable_Venerable]

I have been following your thread HV but I haven't really got any words of wisdom, unless you can persuade your wife to see a counsellor - either with or without you.

 

However, what you wrote here just jumped out at me. Maybe I've missed something in your posts but did anything unpleasant/nasty happen on (or towards the end of) your honeymoon? Even something your wife could have just perceived as unpleasant? Or could something have happened to her on your honeymoon that you may not be aware of?

 

Nothing at all that I am aware of or even having thought about it, have an inkling of. It's as if once the honeymoon was over and we were a married couple we simply didn'y do that any more. If you're perplexed, imagine how perplexed I am after all this time!

[tnttim]

Would you consider your wife controlling?

 

If yes, how do you react to her fits of control?

[tnttim]

Uhhh... it has a LOT to do with sexual technique and the other stuff too. I don't care how aroused I am, if the technique isn't right, ain't nothin gonna happen. Sorry!

 

I agree totally. But just having technique doesn't equal orgasm. The women has to be turned on, she has to be into it. His W is far from into it.

 

When my W is really turned on, when she says forget foreplay, she cums in minutes. She is completely turned on, my technique has very little to do with making her orgasm. It's all in her mind set.

 

I don't think Honorable_Venerable should waste time thinking about his technique.

[Lizzie60]

Wow long thread...

 

but nothing will improve...

 

she is not willing to improve.. she's probably NOT interested in sex... and has an almost inexistant sex drive.

 

sorry dude.. not much you can do.. just get your fun.. and never mind about hers..

[tnttim]

Wow long thread...

 

but nothing will improve...

 

she is not willing to improve.. she's probably NOT interested in sex... and has an almost inexistant sex drive.

 

sorry dude.. not much you can do.. just get your fun.. and never mind about hers..

 

That's what he is missing, its not her problem its his.

 

You can only change yourself, you can't change your spouse.

 

When you blame the other person you stop the thought process on solving the problem because you are trying to Change something that won't Change.

 

My advice is to you honorable is to slowly take some control in your marriage. It sounds to me like you have lost control. Her word is boss and it has leached into the bedroom. Her sex is controlling not in control, there's a huge difference.

 

Read some books about seduction, you sound very smart. If your doesn't approve of a certain book, read it anyway. You have a voice in your marriage, the more you use it the stronger it gets.

[Honorable_Venerable]

That's what he is missing, its not her problem its his.

 

You can only change yourself, you can't change your spouse.

 

When you blame the other person you stop the thought process on solving the problem because you are trying to Change something that won't Change.

 

Thank you for that

 

My advice is to you honorable is to slowly take some control in your marriage. It sounds to me like you have lost control. Her word is boss and it has leached into the bedroom. Her sex is controlling not in control, there's a huge difference.

 

So... by taking control I do what? "Change something that won't change"?

 

Read some books about seduction, you sound very smart. If your doesn't approve of a certain book, read it anyway. You have a voice in your marriage, the more you use it the stronger it gets.

 

I do have a voice. I have indeed read books on seduction. I am smart. You, however are either not smart, or are smart and painfully inarticulate. The thing in question either can, or cannot, be changed. First you say it cannot be, then you suggest that apparently by reading a few more books and throwing my weight around, it can be. Make your mind up. I might place slightly more weight on your opinions if they made sense and were internally consistent.

[xxoo]

Which comes full circle to two people who love each other and enjoy sex, but one person can no longer keep up with the 30 min marathons. That is the message to communicate: I CAN'T do this, and we need to find another way. And then don't do it. Once that is out, surely she'll be open to some more manual stimulation at the very least to get her satisfaction.

I’m not sure – she seems to love it when it happens, but if I withdrew, she wonder if she’d care. I did try withdrawing from it once, but after six months of abstinence, I was the one who “blinked”.

.

 

Don't withdraw from sex....just go at it a more natural amt of time and then offer your magic hands if she hasn't climaxed. For me, at least, it can be flattering when my H (who normally has very good control and can last long) *can't hold back*. It shows me that he was super turned on. I think if you are always trying to last for her, you are never letting yourself fully enjoy the experience.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Don't withdraw from sex....just go at it a more natural amt of time and then offer your magic hands if she hasn't climaxed. For me, at least, it can be flattering when my H (who normally has very good control and can last long) *can't hold back*. It shows me that he was super turned on. I think if you are always trying to last for her, you are never letting yourself fully enjoy the experience.

 

Sorry, not getting this - by last *less* time I improve it for her? She doesn't like being brought to climax by hand after I've come, claiming it's dirty, messy and "not how it should be" (i.e. me making her come through thrusting...).

[LonelyTiger]

Sorry, not getting this - by last *less* time I improve it for her? She doesn't like being brought to climax by hand after I've come, claiming it's dirty, messy and "not how it should be" (i.e. me making her come through thrusting...).

 

HV, does your wife understand that most women cannot come through thrusting alone?

 

I think you've already said that she's not keen on the idea of therapy but, really, that seems to be your only answer. Something is going on in her head and if either of you wants things to change she needs to find out what.

 

It's been said before but 'if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got'.

 

You can't create a great marital sex life by yourself - sorry to state the obvious. I think you're fighting a losing battle here. If she won't get help to sort out her issues then nothing about your sex life will improve - ever!

[Honorable_Venerable]

HV, does your wife understand that most women cannot come through thrusting alone?

 

I think you've already said that she's not keen on the idea of therapy but, really, that seems to be your only answer. Something is going on in her head and if either of you wants things to change she needs to find out what.

 

It's been said before but 'if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got'.

 

You can't create a great marital sex life by yourself - sorry to state the obvious. I think you're fighting a losing battle here. If she won't get help to sort out her issues then nothing about your sex life will improve - ever!

 

I think she does know that thrusting alone isn't (usually) the answer, but she doesn't want the truth, she wants the "right answer":(. I just don't want to abandon hope!

[MichelleZB]

Honorable Venerable, I asked you all those questions about your sex life before to confirm my previous hypothesis that your wife had never had an orgasm. But from your answers, I'm just not sure anymore.

 

She engaged in an entirely different kind of sex with you before you were married, and why someone would change voluntarily from good sex to bad sex is inexplicable to me. She seems to have an extremely odd idea about what sex in a marriage should be like. Frankly, she sounds insane, and she definitely pulled a bait and switch on you.

 

Does she know how serious this matter is? It seems like she doesn't take it seriously. Does she know that her unwillingness to work with you to improve your sex life is making you contemplate leaving her? She should know that.

 

If she hears that and still doesn't care, you should consider either leaving her or having an affair.

[xxoo]

Sorry, not getting this - by last *less* time I improve it for her? She doesn't like being brought to climax by hand after I've come, claiming it's dirty, messy and "not how it should be" (i.e. me making her come through thrusting...).

 

Right, but while she's happy with the status quo, you are not. She won't change if she is comfortable with the status quo. So you change. Not to be mean or manipulative, or to deny her pleasure....but because you can't do it any longer (in all senses of "do it" ).

 

If you can't, you can't. So don't. And in the absence of that "release", hopefully she will be more open to another. Hopefully.

[Luv2dance]

I think she does know that thrusting alone isn't (usually) the answer, but she doesn't want the truth, she wants the "right answer":(. I just don't want to abandon hope!

 

I guess I am just seriously baffled by this..how is there a "right answer" when it comes to how someone gets pleasure from sex? Also, how can it be "right" to enjoy 69 as a single person in a relationship but not within marriage? If she had never enjoyed these things then it would be easier to understand but the 180 she has done...

 

I am sure you are MORE than baffled by the whole situation, but like most everyone is saying you can't change her or this way of thinking. Do you have children??

[mem11363]

If she enjoyed them she would have kept doing them post marriage. The fact that she IMMEDIATELY shut most of their sexual practices down after marriage is de facto proof she didn't like them.

 

That is not a reflection on HV as a lover. In fact it is not a reflection on him in any way. It is a reflection on her. She basically tricked him into marrying her. She pretended to be a certain way until they were married and then told him the "truth" after the wedding.

 

As a man - this puts you in a difficult position. Me personally I would have walked away from this as I think it is a cold and calculating type of deceit. And YES I take my vows seriously - but a union formed thru deception is not a valid marriage in my opinion.

 

 

 

I guess I am just seriously baffled by this..how is there a "right answer" when it comes to how someone gets pleasure from sex? Also, how can it be "right" to enjoy 69 as a single person in a relationship but not within marriage? If she had never enjoyed these things then it would be easier to understand but the 180 she has done...

 

I am sure you are MORE than baffled by the whole situation, but like most everyone is saying you can't change her or this way of thinking. Do you have children??

[Lizzie60]

I agree with mem... a lot of people do that just to hook the other person.

 

It is 'cheating' in my book...

 

so my advice still stands... get your pleasure and forget about her..

[tnttim]

I do have a voice. I have indeed read books on seduction. I am smart. You, however are either not smart, or are smart and painfully inarticulate. The thing in question either can, or cannot, be changed. First you say it cannot be, then you suggest that apparently by reading a few more books and throwing my weight around, it can be. Make your mind up. I might place slightly more weight on your opinions if they made sense and were internally consistent.

 

Everyone is capable of change, but when you are forced to change its natural to resist it. That's why suggestions to your W do not work, they actually harm your chances because you are telling her that her feelings are wrong. Your telling her its wrong to not want sex but that how she feels deep inside.

 

So I am saying if you change and start appealing to her inner need to want sex, then she while start to want it on the outside as well.

 

So by you changing you are causing her to change because her old controlling tricks are not working on you anymore. Get it!

 

She has all the control and like I said that's a huge turn off. Women want strong secure men. When she has total control you naturally have none.

 

One more thing that might help you is thinking if your techniques would work with some one you just started dating. I do not by no means mean cheat or think about cheating, you can picture your wife when you first met. U know she seemed to be more sexual then but what where her deep down feelings, She wasn't in. The ones she tried to hide because she lacked the control. She didn't know what to expect from you, she was nervous and excited. You were new and mysterious. Maybe mimicing those feelings will help lift her coldness.

 

Like I said before you should try different things until you find something that works. Pay attention to changes in your wife when you try different things. She is giving tons of signs but you are missing all of them.

 

Good luck. You seem intelligent enough to see the patterns and find a solution.

Edited April 22, 2010 by tnttim

[mem11363]

Tnt,

In some relationships there is a period of genuine passion that slowly fades. In those situations, if you can work backwards SOMETIMES you can recapture that feeling.

 

In other situations, there wasn't so much passion as "goal oriented behavior" where the goal is to get married. In those cases the behavior was not enjoyable it was purely goal driven - and unless you can create a similar type goal you won't see the behavior again.

 

 

Everyone is capable of change, but when you are forced to change its natural to resist it. That's why suggestions to your W do not work, they actually harm your chances because you are telling her that her feelings are wrong. Your telling her its wrong to not want sex but that how she feels deep inside.

 

So I am saying if you change and start appealing to her inner need to want sex, then she while start to want it on the outside as well.

 

So by you changing you are causing her to change because her old controlling tricks are not working on you anymore. Get it!

 

She has all the control and like I said that's a huge turn off. Women want strong secure men. When she has total control you naturally have none.

 

One more thing that might help you is thinking if your techniques would work with some one you just started dating. I do not by no means mean cheat or think about cheating, you can picture your wife when you first met. U know she seemed to be more sexual then but what where her deep down feelings, She wasn't in. The ones she tried to hide because she lacked the control. She didn't know what to expect from you, she was nervous and excited. You were new and mysterious. Maybe mimicing those feelings will help lift her coldness.

 

Like I said before you should try different things until you find something that works. Pay attention to changes in your wife when you try different things. She is giving tons of signs but you are missing all of them.

 

Good luck. You seem intelligent enough to see the patterns and find a solution.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Right, but while she's happy with the status quo, you are not. She won't change if she is comfortable with the status quo. So you change. Not to be mean or manipulative, or to deny her pleasure....but because you can't do it any longer (in all senses of "do it" ).

 

If you can't, you can't. So don't. And in the absence of that "release", hopefully she will be more open to another. Hopefully.

 

She isn't happy with the status quo, though - she complains that she doesn't come during sex, and that I need to make more effort (without changing what I do or how I do it). I seriosly think the danger is that if I put less effort in, so will she (even though her effort is limited to saying "yes"). IOW, if I can't be bothered neither will she and that I'll go from piss-poor but not infrequent sex to no sex at all.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Everyone is capable of change, but when you are forced to change its natural to resist it. That's why suggestions to your W do not work, they actually harm your chances because you are telling her that her feelings are wrong. Your telling her its wrong to not want sex but that how she feels deep inside.

 

So I am saying if you change and start appealing to her inner need to want sex, then she while start to want it on the outside as well.

 

So by you changing you are causing her to change because her old controlling tricks are not working on you anymore. Get it!

 

See my answer to XXOO below. She has the ULTIMATE control card in her hand - "if you don't do it how I want, I won't do it at all". And I can assure you that she can go without for longer than I can.

 

She has all the control and like I said that's a huge turn off. Women want strong secure men. When she has total control you naturally have none.

 

She has total control of the sex supply - I *CANNOT* have sex with her without her agreement. Since she can say "no" at any point and any further action on might part would be illegal, I CANNOT take control of this. Do YOU see this pattern? Do YOU understand this?

 

One more thing that might help you is thinking if your techniques would work with some one you just started dating. I do not by no means mean cheat or think about cheating, you can picture your wife when you first met. U know she seemed to be more sexual then but what where her deep down feelings, She wasn't in. The ones she tried to hide because she lacked the control. She didn't know what to expect from you, she was nervous and excited. You were new and mysterious. Maybe mimicing those feelings will help lift her coldness.

 

First sensible thing you've said. You say she wasn't in control, so enjoyed sex. If this was the case, she wouldn't have suggested / demanded what we do, would she. Suggesting / demanding implies an understanding and a desire to control what happens.

 

Like I said before you should try different things until you find something that works. Pay attention to changes in your wife when you try different things. She is giving tons of signs but you are missing all of them.

 

Yes, the signs are "I want sex to be like something from a badly written twopenny novel where the heroine swoons as the man thrusts into her while she lies back and thinks of England". I read the sign - I'm just not sure I like what it says!

 

Good luck. You seem intelligent enough to see the patterns and find a solution.

 

If I could find a solution on my own I would have done long enough before now.