When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationshi

[Samantha0905]

I saw the author of "When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships" on the Today Show this morning. The interview was interesting and there are a lot of good reviews of the book on Amazon. I think I'm going to get it to read it as she seemed to have a reasonable attitude about everyone involved in an affair. Judging from the interview and the reviews, a lot of the book is also directed at affair recovery.

 

Have any of you read it? Thoughts?

 

Here's a couple of the reviews:

 

Four weeks ago I found out my husband had been cheating on me. I was furious. I threw my husband out of the house. But I was devastated. We have three children, and I thought we had a good life. Everything seemed to be over for good. Then my therapist said something amazing. She said, "Look, he did a bad thing, but is he really a bad man?" That stopped me. I thought about our life together. He was a good man. I could always rely on him. My therapist lent me her copy of this book. I think it may have saved my life. I read it in one evening. I saw how my husband really could have been in pain even though he put me in pain.

Most of all, I saw that there were many reasons why people cheat, and most of them DON'T mean that your marriage is over. And I saw what the work was that my husband and I needed to do to put our marriage together. My husband and I have talked almost nonstop for the last two days. It's been pretty intense. But Myra Kirschenbaum's book has given me, given both of us really, the hope and understanding to work at healing our marriage.

 

This book is a must for anyone who is married, involved, contemplating marriage, contemplating divorce, contemplating an affair... This is the first time I have read anything on the subject of infidelity that I felt portrayed an accurate, objective, nonjudgmental, commonsensical explanation of how it happens and how to proceed once it has. Dr. Kirshenbaum does not advocate infidelity, she merely accepts it as an unfortunate fact, and instead of leaving the reader feeling worse than s/he already does, she explains how to make the most of the situation by engaging in deep soul-searching through the many questions she poses. She clearly states several times that infidelity is wrong, and can be catastrophic, and she urges the reader to take steps to stop. I can see how judgmental, black-or-white type of people could criticize Dr. Kirshenbaum as being too lenient on the offenders, especially as she is brave and intelligent enough to publicly advocate keeping the affair a secret to take to the grave. However, in all the research I have done on the subject of marriage and happiness, as well as all the affairs I have witnessed with friends, etc. - I truly believe that what she says is correct. It is not a contradiction of terms to say good people have affairs. It is scandalous but correct to say that affairs can indeed strengthen a marriage in the types of situations she describes. She does a great job of helping the reader analyze whether s/he is in the right marriage, if the lover is indeed the right person or perhaps s/he should be alone, and she has the reader ask some extremely valuable questions regarding her/himself and the people with whom s/he is involved. Dr. Kirshenbaum allows for the possibility that while a happy nuclear family is the ideal, in some cases this is impossible and divorce may be the best even when children are involved. She helps the reader decide this also. The tone of the book is direct and friendly and it is an extremely quick read. I picked this book up while researching for my own book (a self-help book for women who lack passion and motivation in their lives), and I have urged all of my friends to read it. Why wait until your own relationship is in trouble? I recommend that people read this in order to avoid either marrying the wrong person, or being personally affected by infidelity. As Dr. Kirshenbaum points out, most infidelity happens almost by accident, in a non-premeditated manner. Best to be prepared by reading this book even if you don't think you need to!

[jennie-jennie]

Here is an old post of mine, responding to whether my MM has read this book:

 

Yes, he has, the book is okay, but my MM's issues go deeper than that. He can't just rationally figure out who he loves the most, he needs to work on his issues. Mira Kirshenbaum claims if you follow her steps you can make a regret free decision. We all know how these MM tend to flip-flop if they have not worked through the issues that are behind their indecision. So my MM's sentiment is that there is more to it than what Mira claims, at least in a case like his.

 

We have both read the book by the way. We were at first very enthusiastic about it, but later came to realize that there is more to it than what Mira claims.

[nvntr007]

Sam, I find your post refreshing and Ms. K's ideas and attitudes (as noted by the reviewers you quote) to be a breath of fresh air---one that I need to help me out of the funk of negative b.s. that has been swimming so close to the surface lately (you know, those periodic times when 'those' thoughts and doubts overwhelm your consciousness and you feel that you are suffocating). Many thanks!

 

BTW, and as an aside, I wish every post on LS carried a gender identification of the poster (I'm male). More often than not, one is in the dark as to whether the poster is a man or a woman until s/he writes something like "... my wife...", or, "...my husband...".

[Samantha0905]

Here is an old post of mine, responding to whether my MM has read this book:

 

 

 

We have both read the book by the way. We were at first very enthusiastic about it, but later came to realize that there is more to it than what Mira claims.

 

Thanks jennie! I noticed she said there were 17 types of affairs and it made me wonder if this book was behind some of the discussions I've seen on here in the past about particular types of affairs.

[Samantha0905]

Here is an old post of mine, responding to whether my MM has read this book:

 

 

 

We have both read the book by the way. We were at first very enthusiastic about it, but later came to realize that there is more to it than what Mira claims.

 

Oh -- and I meant to say -- I can't imagine any decision made, regardless of which person someone may end up with -- or even if they end up alone -- could be "regret free." It seems there would have to be some sort of second guessing and regrets involved.

 

Sam, I find your post refreshing and Ms. K's ideas and attitudes (as noted by the reviewers you quote) to be a breath of fresh air---one that I need to help me out of the funk of negative b.s. that has been swimming so close to the surface lately (you know, those periodic times when 'those' thoughts and doubts overwhelm your consciousness and you feel that you are suffocating). Many thanks!

 

BTW, and as an aside, I wish every post on LS carried a gender identification of the poster (I'm male). More often than not, one is in the dark as to whether the poster is a man or a woman until s/he writes something like "... my wife...", or, "...my husband...".

 

Thanks for the kind words. I wonder many times whether a poster is male or female and do seem to eventually be able to figure it out. I'm female, which I assume is indicated by "Samantha" -- and have been regularly updating people in threads as to my situation -- married/WS/getting IC.

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks jennie! I noticed she said there were 17 types of affairs and it made me wonder if this book was behind some of the discussions I've seen on here in the past about particular types of affairs.

 

I believe you are thinking about therapist Emily Brown's division of affairs into "conflict avoidance", "intimacy avoidance", "sexual addiction", "split self", and "exit" affairs. Personally, I prefer Emily Brown's division into 5 types, rather than Mira Kirshenbaum's into 17. Mira's seems a bit overworked and hard to overlook in my opinion.

[Samantha0905]

I believe you are thinking about therapist Emily Brown's division of affairs into "conflict avoidance", "intimacy avoidance", "sexual addiction", "split self", and "exit" affairs. Personally, I prefer Emily Brown's division into 5 types, rather than Mira Kirshenbaum's into 17. Mira's seems a bit overworked and hard to overlook in my opinion.

 

Yes, that's what I meant. I've read some of Brown's information online, but never participated in the discussions too much. The "split-self" affair discussion here is the one I remember.

 

Thanks for your thoughts on Mira K's book. Seventeen is a lot.

[jennie-jennie]

I did like reading Mira's book. We do need to hear that good people can have affairs. It is one of the better books I have read about affairs.

Edited April 18, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Samantha0905]

I did like reading Mira's book. We do need to hear that good people can have affairs. It is one of the better books I have read about affairs.

 

Thanks again. I found it refreshing the reviews indicated she does not demonize the person. I know on this site I've had people tell me I'm a "bad" person for having an affair. Or they've said things like "Get a divorce!" It gets tiring to hear as it's judgmental. I do believe a person can still be a good person whether they are having an affair or not.

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks again. I found it refreshing the reviews indicated she does not demonize the person. I know on this site I've had people tell me I'm a "bad" person for having an affair. Or they've said things like "Get a divorce!" It gets tiring to hear as it's judgmental. I do believe a person can still be a good person whether they are having an affair or not.

 

That is my firm belief too.

[Got it]

I read it and found it to be helpful not only for myself as a former MOW but also with trying to understand my (now)sMM.

 

It gives good insight on the possible motivations why one may cheat. I don't think it, or any book, is the bible on affairs but it is not a bad one to have in the library.

[troggleputty]

I don't see how it is possible to characterize a person who cheats on their spouse as a "good" spouse.

[Jilly Bean]

I don't see how it is possible to characterize a person who cheats on their spouse as a "good" spouse.

 

+1.

 

Cheating involves lying, sneaking, and betrayal.

 

I could see how having a ONS could be considered a "bad thing" and the person is still "good", but a married person who is capable of an ongoing affair, and therefore a pretty deep and sustained level of betrayal and lying, can't be considered a "good person".

 

The book sounds like a good resource for betrayed spouses to rationalize sticking with a cheater. I guess to keep someone like that around, you'd have to do quite a bit of this.

[JustJoe]

I agree with JB, a ONS is a "speed bump', in an other wise good life. Long term affairs are signs of personality disorders, or character flaws. And I'm including myself in th e same bracket.

[califnan]

I think it all has to do with repentance.. There is nothing that can be said to rationalize an act. But all one has to do is regret, and to turn away from - and never to return to.

[Samantha0905]

I read it and found it to be helpful not only for myself as a former MOW but also with trying to understand my (now)sMM.

 

It gives good insight on the possible motivations why one may cheat. I don't think it, or any book, is the bible on affairs but it is not a bad one to have in the library.

 

Thanks!

 

+1.

 

Cheating involves lying, sneaking, and betrayal.

 

I could see how having a ONS could be considered a "bad thing" and the person is still "good", but a married person who is capable of an ongoing affair, and therefore a pretty deep and sustained level of betrayal and lying, can't be considered a "good person".

 

The book sounds like a good resource for betrayed spouses to rationalize sticking with a cheater. I guess to keep someone like that around, you'd have to do quite a bit of this.

 

 

I agree with JB, a ONS is a "speed bump', in an other wise good life. Long term affairs are signs of personality disorders, or character flaws. And I'm including myself in th e same bracket.

 

I think it all has to do with repentance.. There is nothing that can be said to rationalize an act. But all one has to do is regret, and to turn away from - and never to return to.

 

Have y'all read the book?

[Owl]

I've read the book...and I completely disagreed with the author's approach and even basic 'methods' for recovering a marriage from an affair.

 

There were a number of other books that I found to be far more helpful and effective in recovering my marriage than hers. I felt that this author was more interested in selling her book than recovering marriages.

[Samantha0905]

I've read the book...and I completely disagreed with the author's approach and even basic 'methods' for recovering a marriage from an affair.

 

There were a number of other books that I found to be far more helpful and effective in recovering my marriage than hers. I felt that this author was more interested in selling her book than recovering marriages.

 

Thanks Owl! Are there any books in particular you would recommend?

[Owl]

"Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs/Her Needs" are both excellent places to start. The basic concepts of "the love bank", "emotional needs", "lovebusting", etc... were all very helpful in our recovery to come up with a frame of reference for us to use on HOW to make each other feel loved.

 

"20 (Surprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage" was a good reference as well. A good reminder of the maintenance that a marriage needs to have, and how to realistically accomplish that.

 

"The Five Love Languages" worked well in conjunction with the "love bank" concept from the first books I'd mentioned. It also has a good explanation of the "phases of love" in the 2nd or 3rd chapter that really puts what happens in an affair compared to a marriage into perspective.

[califnan]

!

 

Have y'all read the book?

 

___________________

 

No. I am only assuming that "the book" is a discussion or anylizing different reasons why people have affairs?

[Samantha0905]

"Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs/Her Needs" are both excellent places to start. The basic concepts of "the love bank", "emotional needs", "lovebusting", etc... were all very helpful in our recovery to come up with a frame of reference for us to use on HOW to make each other feel loved.

 

"20 (Surprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage" was a good reference as well. A good reminder of the maintenance that a marriage needs to have, and how to realistically accomplish that.

 

"The Five Love Languages" worked well in conjunction with the "love bank" concept from the first books I'd mentioned. It also has a good explanation of the "phases of love" in the 2nd or 3rd chapter that really puts what happens in an affair compared to a marriage into perspective.

 

Thank you Owl! I've had many people mention "The Five Love Languages" -- I suppose it must be a decent book. The other recommendations sound good also.

 

___________________

 

No. I am only assuming that "the book" is a discussion or anylizing different reasons why people have affairs?

 

I just know what I read on Amazon about it. I posted the thread out of curiosity to see who has read the book and what they think. Have you read any good books regarding affairs cali?

 

personality disorders have lots to do with people having affaires.

 

I will not tar them all with the same brush but for goodness sake an affaire is inexcuseable. Its disrespectful, hurtful and downright lazy!!!!!!!!!

 

 

sort your house out. Sh*t or get off the pot. finish one thing before you start another. Its not f*cking rocket science is it?? Common sence :eek:isnt it?.

 

Maybe i should write a book about what utter lazy gits people that have affaires are? Cant be bothered to fix the issue, cant be bothered to walk away so hey i know what...........I will find someone new to make me feel good and I will be alright.

 

 

ugh

 

Have you read many good books?

 

I imagine most personality disorders are rare and most people claiming to have one actually do not.

[silktricks]

I haven't read ANY self-help books on infidelity.... so am obviously no judge of this book.

 

However, I would (personally) disagree with taking the secret of the affair to the grave. I'm not sure how a marriage could truly recover if the affair is not made known. JMO.

[jennie-jennie]

I've read the book...and I completely disagreed with the author's approach and even basic 'methods' for recovering a marriage from an affair.

 

There were a number of other books that I found to be far more helpful and effective in recovering my marriage than hers. I felt that this author was more interested in selling her book than recovering marriages.

 

What I liked about Mira's book was that she was not prejudiced as to whether the spouse or the OW/OM was the best choice for the WS. Instead she puts her energy into helping the WS make the decision which is best for him/her.

[GorillaTheater]

What I liked about Mira's book was that she was not prejudiced as to whether the spouse or the OW/OM was the best choice for the WS. Instead she puts her energy into helping the WS make the decision which is best for him/her.

 

That's fair. Even fairer would be to let the BS in on things so they could also get to make a decision which is best for him/her. In the interests of equity and everything.

[califnan]

 

 

I just know what I read on Amazon about it. I posted the thread out of curiosity to see who has read the book and what they think. Have you read any good books regarding affairs cali?

 

 

QUOTE]

 

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No Samantha.. Not a single book.. ha .. During the time I was in a what could be considered a light ER, I did a lot of research (internet) - and Still do. LS Testimonies have been extremely helpful, in discovery.