When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationshi

[Samantha0905]

What I liked about Mira's book was that she was not prejudiced as to whether the spouse or the OW/OM was the best choice for the WS. Instead she puts her energy into helping the WS make the decision which is best for him/her.

 

Self-discovery or awareness is important. My counselor points that out to me regularly. He asks, "What do you think?" and "What do you want?" often.

 

That's fair. Even fairer would be to let the BS in on things so they could also get to make a decision which is best for him/her. In the interests of equity and everything.

 

It's a wonderful thing people have varying opinions about issues. Life would get awfully mundane if it weren't the case.

 

Have you read anything interesting regarding affairs?

 

 

 

I just know what I read on Amazon about it. I posted the thread out of curiosity to see who has read the book and what they think. Have you read any good books regarding affairs cali?

 

 

 

----------------------

 

No Samantha.. Not a single book.. ha .. During the time I was in a what could be considered a light ER, I did a lot of research (internet) - and Still do. LS Testimonies have been extremely helpful, in discovery.

 

Yes, well -- in my case -- going out to buy a book on the subject and bringing it home to read would be difficult. I suppose this is where a device like a Kindle would come in handy.

[GorillaTheater]

It's a wonderful thing people have varying opinions about issues. Life would get awfully mundane if it weren't the case.

 

Have you read anything interesting regarding affairs?

 

I re-reading Gorky Park for something like the 100th time. I'm at the part where Zoya runs off with Schmidt.

I'm thinking that Renko may be better off, though.

[Samantha0905]

I re-reading Gorky Park for something like the 100th time. I'm at the part where Zoya runs off with Schmidt.

I'm thinking that Renko may be better off, though.

 

ha,ha,ha,ha That made me laugh!

[Owl]

What I liked about Mira's book was that she was not prejudiced as to whether the spouse or the OW/OM was the best choice for the WS. Instead she puts her energy into helping the WS make the decision which is best for him/her.

 

I have no issue with the WS making the determination as to which they think is better for them. My wife faced the same decision during her EA with OM.

 

But...I'm of the opinion that the BS should be given that same opportunity to choose alongside the OW/OM and WS...

 

The BS should also have the chance to choose whether or not they want to continue the marriage in the light of their WS's infidelity.

 

And the BS is denied that option if they're never informed of the affair.

 

The thing is...there are THREE people involved in any of these situations...and all three should be given the chance to make their own informed decisions.

 

I disagree with any method that advocates denying any of the three their chance to make an informed decision.

[jennie-jennie]

I have no issue with the WS making the determination as to which they think is better for them. My wife faced the same decision during her EA with OM.

 

But...I'm of the opinion that the BS should be given that same opportunity to choose alongside the OW/OM and WS...

 

The BS should also have the chance to choose whether or not they want to continue the marriage in the light of their WS's infidelity.

 

And the BS is denied that option if they're never informed of the affair.

 

The thing is...there are THREE people involved in any of these situations...and all three should be given the chance to make their own informed decisions.

 

I disagree with any method that advocates denying any of the three their chance to make an informed decision.

 

I understand, and I do agree that sooner or later the infidelity should be disclosed. But I don't see Mira's opinion of not disclosing the affair as a necessary requirement to using her method. A WS could use her book as a help in making a decision, and then once the decision is made he/she can choose to disclose the affair. Disclosing the affair prematurely might however hinder the WS' decision process in my opinion.

[GorillaTheater]

Disclosing the affair prematurely might however hinder the WS' decision process in my opinion.

 

The most obvious monkey wrench would appear to be the BS's decision to end the marriage before the WS decides one way or the other. Perhaps the begging-and-pleading-alternating-with-fits-of-rage that a BS often goes through initially would be a little more drama than can be comfortably dealt with. What other hinderances are there?

[troggleputty]

I understand, and I do agree that sooner or later the infidelity should be disclosed. But I don't see Mira's opinion of not disclosing the affair as a necessary requirement to using her method. A WS could use her book as a help in making a decision, and then once the decision is made he/she can choose to disclose the affair. Disclosing the affair prematurely might however hinder the WS' decision process in my opinion.

 

On the issue of disclosure, if cheating does not make someone a "bad spouse," i.e. it's either a good event or at least a neutral event in the marriage, there is no reason for concealing it.

 

It is completely inconsistent for the author of the book to on the one hand deny that cheating is bad conduct, and bad for a marriage; yet at the same time, justify a failure to disclose it.

 

There is no shame in disclosing good behavior. There is shame in disclosing bad behavior.

 

Cheaters want to be perceived as "good." Yet they understand that their conduct is "bad." That's why there's such conflict about whether or not to disclose the cheating.

[Owl]

But it would delay a BS's decision process, would it not? Why are the feelings of the WS more important than the feelings of the BS?

 

No, Samantha, I've not read the book, so I cannot provide appropriate feedback, sorry.

 

EXACTLY.

 

It still denies the BS their chance to make the informed decision.

 

It denies the BS the chance to know what's really going on...denies them the opportunity to know that they're actually competing for their WS's love with someone else (the OW/OM already knows this).

 

How can letting the BS know hinder the WS from making their choice? You're right...the BS might FORCE the choice at that point in time...but what's really wrong with that, when you get down to it?

 

The biggest issue with nearly every thread we read here on LS is the fact that the WS is delaying the choice...both the OW and the BS's complain about that all the time here.

 

Why should the BS be left in limbo, not going on while the WS is "making his choice" (when the reality is, he's almost never actually contemplating that choice until d-day hits and it's forced on him anyway)?

 

That's the thing...the decisions need to be made by all THREE parties...and that's not what I gathered from this book.

[jennie-jennie]

But it would delay a BS's decision process, would it not? Why are the feelings of the WS more important than the feelings of the BS?

 

No, Samantha, I've not read the book, so I cannot provide appropriate feedback, sorry.

 

The feelings of the WS are not more important than the feelings of the BS. But we all know of the high probability of the flip-flopping which will happen if a firm decision has not been made, or the reconcilation of the marriage with the WS sneaking off first chance to see the OP. So to prevent this from happening, I believe the WS needs to make his/her decision without the impact of disclosure.

 

The truth is the WS has the upper hand because he/she knows of the affair and the BS does not. Because of this he/she has the choice to take whatever time is necessary to make a decision and then hand the ball over to his/her spouse.

[jennie-jennie]

Exactly, especially as evidenced by these 4 and 5 year long (and longer in some cases) "decision making processes" that we see going on on LS. IMO, if it takes THAT long there is no "process" going on except the process of the WS seeing how long he/she can keep someone hanging on empty promises.

 

Donna, I believe you do not realize that in these long term relationships there are often no promises being made. I know this is the case in my relationship, and also in Fallen Angel's.

 

I have made the choice to stay with my MM. I see him moving closer to me all the time. Perhaps he will never be able to make a decision, perhaps he will, but I have made the decision our relationship is worth having as it is today.

[jennie-jennie]

Well I'm glad you're under no illusions. How, though, do you propose to tell the BS as you stated a bit ago if the affair continues as is forever?

 

Donna, I will not answer your question as I do not want to thread jack since this thread is about Mira's book.

 

I tried to add this to my prior post, but was not quick enough:

 

What Mira's book does is provide a method to cut the process of the WS' decision making short. Unfortunately, my MM's issues go too deep for her method to be efficient in his case.

[silktricks]

I have made the choice to stay with my MM. I see him moving closer to me all the time. Perhaps he will never be able to make a decision, perhaps he will, but I have made the decision our relationship is worth having as it is today.

 

No offense, Jennie, but it seems to me after reading on LS for many a year now, that for the most part the OW does not want the WS to disclose the affair as long as they see the above bolded... However, if they begin to see movement in the other direction, then they are more than happy to not only see the affair disclosed, but often attempt to make it happen themselves.

 

The BS - especially when a long term affair is ongoing - is being cheated by not being given the information they need to make a decision. You seem to assume that if the affair is disclosed that automatically the BS (in your case the wife) will want him/her back. That is not necessarily the case. So possibly the "waffling" on the part of the WS is moot

[jennie-jennie]

No offense, Jennie, but it seems to me after reading on LS for many a year now, that for the most part the OW does not want the WS to disclose the affair as long as they see the above bolded... However, if they begin to see movement in the other direction, then they are more than happy to not only see the affair disclosed, but often attempt to make it happen themselves.

 

The BS - especially when a long term affair is ongoing - is being cheated by not being given the information they need to make a decision. You seem to assume that if the affair is disclosed that automatically the BS (in your case the wife) will want him/her back. That is not necessarily the case. So possibly the "waffling" on the part of the WS is moot

 

The book is entirely a help for the WS to make a decision. I have made no assumption what the BS' decision might be once the affair is disclosed. Once again, this thread is about Mira's book. If we want to discuss disclosure we should move on to JustJoe's thread.

[Samantha0905]

But it would delay a BS's decision process, would it not? Why are the feelings of the WS more important than the feelings of the BS?

 

No, Samantha, I've not read the book, so I cannot provide appropriate feedback, sorry.

 

Thanks!

[Owl]

This thread was a discussion on the merits (or deficits) of the book in question.

 

The deficit noted here by myself (and several others) is that it doesn't include disclosure nor does it include the BS into the decision making processes.

 

That's why disclosure/inclusion of the BS keeps being brought up on the thread. It's relevent to the discussion of the book's flaws (as noted by some posters, obviously we don't all agree).

 

I pointed it out as part of the reason I don't recommend this book, but do recommend others.

[jennie-jennie]

This thread was a discussion on the merits (or deficits) of the book in question.

 

The deficit noted here by myself (and several others) is that it doesn't include disclosure nor does it include the BS into the decision making processes.

 

That's why disclosure/inclusion of the BS keeps being brought up on the thread. It's relevent to the discussion of the book's flaws (as noted by some posters, obviously we don't all agree).

 

I pointed it out as part of the reason I don't recommend this book, but do recommend others.

 

To me the book's strength is that it is directed entirely to the WS and the thought process that is going on in his/her head. I don't know of any other book out there which has the WS as its main audience. Has anybody else encountered such a book?

 

The title states "Inside the Hearts and Minds of People in Two Relationships". Does this not presume that the affair is still ongoing? It is not yet time to recover the marriage. It is time to decide which way to go.

Edited April 19, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Owl]

To me the book's strength is that it is directed entirely to the WS and the thought process that is going on in his/her head. I don't know of any other book out there which has the WS as its main audience. Has anybody else encountered such a book?

 

Good point. Since my wife and I (and our MC) were working to reconcile and restore our marriage, we knew that looking at a book aimed at one side only wasn't going to reach that goal. We focused instead on books and material that were relevent to marital recovery.

 

She, like most WS's, avoided making that choice for as long as she could. She avoided it until the choice was about to be taken out of her hands...and then realized that no choice was still choosing.

 

I guess this would be a good book for someone who wants to decide the fate of three people without their involvement or inclusion into the decision making process...but not one I'd recommend for anyone actually trying to reconcile their marriage after the affair has ended.

[jennie-jennie]

And what if the way to go is for the A to continue forever? Why should one person be kept in the dark? It's just wrong on so many levels.

 

Donna, have you by any chance read the book? The purpose of the book is to prevent the affair from going on forever by helping the WS make a decision.

[jennie-jennie]

And how long ago did your MM read it?

 

May I refer you back to my posts #2 and #41 in this thread.

[jennie-jennie]

Donna, have you by any chance read the book? The purpose of the book is to prevent the affair from going on forever by helping the WS make a decision.

 

And how long ago did your MM read it?

 

I read them, and they didn't tell me how long ago your MM read this book.

 

Neither did you state whether or not you read the book.

 

My MM read the book last summer. Believe it or not, much is different in our relationship from last summer. Not saying that it is because of the book, just saying.

 

Edited: Come to think of it, our decision to go NC so he could work on his marriage came from his reading of the book. And NC has played a big part in changing our relationship since then - to the better.

[silktricks]

The book is entirely a help for the WS to make a decision. I have made no assumption what the BS' decision might be once the affair is disclosed. Once again, this thread is about Mira's book. If we want to discuss disclosure we should move on to JustJoe's thread.

 

I beg to differ. you did make the assumption the WS would return to the BS - which assumes she/he would take them back if they have full disclosure:

 

The feelings of the WS are not more important than the feelings of the BS. But we all know of the high probability of the flip-flopping which will happen if a firm decision has not been made, or the reconcilation of the marriage with the WS sneaking off first chance to see the OP. So to prevent this from happening, I believe the WS needs to make his/her decision without the impact of disclosure.

 

The truth is the WS has the upper hand because he/she knows of the affair and the BS does not. Because of this he/she has the choice to take whatever time is necessary to make a decision and then hand the ball over to his/her spouse.

 

So, basically you say the WS is the only person who gets to make a choice, AND that the WS and OW should be the only people who are actually aware of what is going on - which is apparently what the book recommends.

 

I disagree.

 

And I might add that I was discussing the recommendations that according to you and others the book makes - including disclosure or lack of same. So far as I know, you are not the OP, nor do you have the right to say what can and cannot be posted on a thread.

 

Though I freely stated that I had not read the book (nor do I have any intention of doing so) that does not stop the fact that I have opinions about what has been stated the books holds. I also have a right to state those opinions.

[jennie-jennie]

I beg to differ. you did make the assumption the WS would return to the BS - which assumes she/he would take them back if they have full disclosure:

 

Huh? I believe I know better than you what assumptions I have made. I did not make the assumption the WS would return to the BS and I did not make the assumption that he/she would take them back if they have full disclosure. Perhaps you misinterpreted something I wrote?

So, basically you say the WS is the only person who gets to make a choice, AND that the WS and OW should be the only people who are actually aware of what is going on - which is apparently what the book recommends.

 

Again you have misinterpreted what I have written. I am not saying that the WS is the only person who gets to make a choice. I am also for disclosure, albeit not premature disclosure.

I disagree.

 

And I might add that I was discussing the recommendations that according to you and others the book makes - including disclosure or lack of same. So far as I know, you are not the OP, nor do you have the right to say what can and cannot be posted on a thread.

 

I was just trying to avoid what in my eyes looked like a thread jack. I felt the questions posed to me and my answers to them were becoming too personal, whereas the thread was about the book not about me.

Though I freely stated that I had not read the book (nor do I have any intention of doing so) that does not stop the fact that I have opinions about what has been stated the books holds. I also have a right to state those opinions.

 

Of course!

Edited April 19, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[troggleputty]

Neither did you state whether or not you read the book.

 

My MM read the book last summer. Believe it or not, much is different in our relationship from last summer. Not saying that it is because of the book, just saying.

 

Edited: Come to think of it, our decision to go NC so he could work on his marriage came from his reading of the book. And NC has played a big part in changing our relationship since then - to the better.

 

 

Excuse me? You're saying you've been "NC" with your MM since...when?

 

In any event, "NC" with your MM means your relationship with him is history.

[Samantha0905]

To me the book's strength is that it is directed entirely to the WS and the thought process that is going on in his/her head. I don't know of any other book out there which has the WS as its main audience. Has anybody else encountered such a book?

 

The title states "Inside the Hearts and Minds of People in Two Relationships". Does this not presume that the affair is still ongoing? It is not yet time to recover the marriage. It is time to decide which way to go.

 

Good point. She's speaking to a particular audience.

 

There are people out there who are having affairs and who have chosen not to tell the BS. Yes, this leaves the BS out of the decision making process. Whether one agrees with that as the right thing to do or not, there are cases where this occurs and there are people who condone not telling.

[Samantha0905]

And those are the "Good People" the book talks about? I beg to differ.

 

And that's your opinion. I don't feel it makes someone a "bad" person. Everyone comes from their own place and their own circumstances and, fortunately, we're all allowed an opinion.

 

Certainly a WS does have a perspective and certainly there are people who advocate not telling.