When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationshi

[Samantha0905]

Everyone is entitled to one for sure. I base my opinions of people on their behavior and how they treat others; their level of integrity or lack thereof; their honesty or lack thereof.

 

That's nice. I try not to judge others. Beams of my own and all of that........

[Snowflower]

 

Certainly a WS does have a perspective and certainly there are people who advocate not telling.

 

And the 'do not tell' perspective usually comes from the WS who has continued to lie about their affair.

 

More conflict-avoidance from the WS which is likely a character trait that got them involved in an affair in the first place!

 

Conflict avoidance is generally not a good trait. It can impact someone's professional life as well as relationships. IMO, conflict-avoidance is another way not to be true to one's self. If you (general you) don't like something or find something uncomfortable, be real and deal with it. Don't avoid it or ignore your feelings. That's unfair to everyone involved...most of all yourself! (again, general you, not directed anyone specifically)

[Samantha0905]

Yeah, okay. Sure. You NEVER judge someone by the fact that they do bad things to people.

 

I wonder if Tiger Woods or Jesse James are feeling "judged" right about now.

 

I said I try not to judge. I did not say judgmental thoughts never occur to me. I certainly don't decide someone is "bad" as a whole very easily. Maybe Charles Manson, but think more crazy than bad. I hope people -- even those who have done things I consider bad -- find peace and redemption.

 

I cheered Tiger on in the masters. I had never heard of Jesse James until that story broke. I feel like what people do in their personal lives is their business and should be kept there as much as possible. It's difficult with celebrities and a price they pay for fame I suppose.

 

The only thing I care about concerning Tiger Woods is whether or not he's doing well at golf. I like the game and enjoy watching it being played well. Now, obviously, that story was certainly something I paid attention to as it was quite the happening thing on the news for a little while.

 

I hope he ends up happy and works through whatever he has to work through in life. I hope his wife is happy. I hope his children have happy lives. I hope all of his mistresses have nice lives.

 

I really like Sandra Bullock as an actress. She's certainly seems to be intelligent, well accomplished and is beautiful. Jesse James (appearance wise) does not float my boat.

 

I know none of these people. If you have their cell # or something, we can call and ask them whether or not they feel judged.

[SavannahSmiles]

Who defines what a good person is? If you say "oh he's such a good person. It's too bad he had an affair" then you are saying he's good in some ways but not others. He is good to an OW but not to his wife. His wife might say "I thought he was a good person but now I see that he is not." No one is all good and probably no one is all bad. Even a serial killer might be good to his mom. Just sayin'

[Samantha0905]

 

Good people don't continue to do a bad thing to someone else year after year after year and lie to them over and over and over.

 

My opinion, and a valid one.

 

I've decided that continuing an A for years and refusing to allow the BS the chance to find REAL love by telling them the truth is NOT the action of a "Good Person." Therefore, the book is complete rubbish. Again, IMO.

 

You read it?

[SavannahSmiles]

I'm sure even Jeffrey Dahmer might have fed a stray cat or two at one time.

 

 

No doubt! What kills me is the lack of responsibility people have for their actions. They find a book to justify their bad bahavior. There's a book for everything.

[Samantha0905]

No doubt! What kills me is the lack of responsibility people have for their actions. They find a book to justify their bad bahavior. There's a book for everything.

 

How would a person know why someone chooses to read a book or books? Unless the reader is themself? Perhaps a person could simply enjoy reading and choose a variety of books which speak from a variety of opinions on a subject?

 

For example, I would describe myself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal when it comes to government and politics. I enjoy watching all the news channels, reading a variety of opinions on matters -- whether they be conservative, moderate or liberal, etc. I don't have to agree with someone to be interested in their point of view. I find people fascinating. I certainly don't read things which I feel only share my opinion on a subject matter to "justify" how I feel. I go into learning about new subjects or opinions with the attitude there is always something to be learned.

 

It certainly lends to more understanding and empathy to approach matters that way.

[Samantha0905]

And the 'do not tell' perspective usually comes from the WS who has continued to lie about their affair.

 

More conflict-avoidance from the WS which is likely a character trait that got them involved in an affair in the first place!

 

Conflict avoidance is generally not a good trait. It can impact someone's professional life as well as relationships. IMO, conflict-avoidance is another way not to be true to one's self. If you (general you) don't like something or find something uncomfortable, be real and deal with it. Don't avoid it or ignore your feelings. That's unfair to everyone involved...most of all yourself! (again, general you, not directed anyone specifically)

 

I wasn't taking any of it as "you" meaning "me" in particular.

 

I honestly think some people choose not to tell because they would truly prefer not to cause any more pain than they already have. I think it's as simple as that and I don't think it's a bad choice.

[SavannahSmiles]

How would a person know why someone chooses to read a book or books? Unless the reader is themself? Perhaps a person could simply enjoy reading and choose a variety of books which speak from a variety of opinions on a subject?

 

For example, I would describe myself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal when it comes to government and politics. I enjoy watching all the news channels, reading a variety of opinions on matters -- whether they be conservative, moderate or liberal, etc. I don't have to agree with someone to be interested in their point of view. I find people fascinating. I certainly don't read things which I feel only share my opinion on a subject matter to "justify" how I feel. I go into learning about new subjects or opinions with the attitude there is always something to be learned.

 

It certainly lends to more understanding and empathy to approach matters that way.

 

 

I was specifically referring to people who justify wrong choices by reading books that support these choices. The fact is it doesn't matter if the whole world agrees with you, if it's wrong, it's still wrong. Cheating is cheating is cheating.

[Got it]

Good lord!

 

I think the book is good for a WS to start evaluating why they are in an affair. To try and figure out their pysche to get to the root problem. I don't recall her banning telling but I am of the camp that I don't believe telling is 100% the best solution.

 

This book is geared towards WS who are trying to figure out why they are doing what they are doing. It is a stepping stone for the next level, reinvesting in the marriage, divorce, etc.

 

It definitely has its merits but it is not a one stop shopping for all things regarding infidelity. But it is unique that it is geared to the WS and does not start, middle, and end about how the WS is the anti-christ. Many will feel that is wrong of it but for the WS realizing that you might not be "evil" is a positive step in the right direction. The fear of the unknown, addressing the full truth, etc is very hard. Realizing that the identity that you may have worn your entire life is now drastically changed is humbling and devastating.

[Lizzie60]

I don't need to read any books ... I know good people do have affairs all the time..

[Samantha0905]

Oh, yeah. It's aaaallllll about sparing someone else pain.

 

What it's REALLY about, IMO, is not wanting to end their good thing, i.e. two people dangling on their line.

 

Wow -- you like alls and nevers and the like. I didn't say always. I said it could be the reason a particular person chooses not to tell. I was speaking more to not telling once the affair is over and done. Someone may very well realize how wrong something they are doing is, stop having the affair and choose not to tell their spouse. I have no problem with that. It's their decision.

 

I was specifically referring to people who justify wrong choices by reading books that support these choices. The fact is it doesn't matter if the whole world agrees with you, if it's wrong, it's still wrong. Cheating is cheating is cheating.

 

I haven't read it yet, but I doubt the book encourages people to have affairs or expresses it is the "right" thing to do. Who said that? I don't think an affair was the right thing to do. It was a bad choice. I think good people can make bad choices.

 

Good lord!

 

I think the book is good for a WS to start evaluating why they are in an affair. To try and figure out their pysche to get to the root problem. I don't recall her banning telling but I am of the camp that I don't believe telling is 100% the best solution.

 

This book is geared towards WS who are trying to figure out why they are doing what they are doing. It is a stepping stone for the next level, reinvesting in the marriage, divorce, etc.

 

It definitely has its merits but it is not a one stop shopping for all things regarding infidelity. But it is unique that it is geared to the WS and does not start, middle, and end about how the WS is the anti-christ. Many will feel that is wrong of it but for the WS realizing that you might not be "evil" is a positive step in the right direction. The fear of the unknown, addressing the full truth, etc is very hard. Realizing that the identity that you may have worn your entire life is now drastically changed is humbling and devastating.

 

Nice post.

 

 

I don't need to read any books ... I know good people do have affairs all the time..

 

I enjoy reading books. I do agree, I'm sure there are good people who have affairs.

 

I don't think when she titled the book she meant "good in bed."

 

That kind of good is very nice also.

[Lizzie60]

I think MOST people having affairs ARE great people..

 

it has nothing to do with being good or bad IMO...

[SavannahSmiles]

I think MOST people having affairs ARE great people..

 

it has nothing to do with being good or bad IMO...

 

 

They are deceiving the person they are married to, the person they vowed to not betray. So how does that make them a great person? Maybe Tiger shouldn't have apologized for his actions. He should have just said, "Hey I'm a great person! Just like everyone else!"

[jennie-jennie]

I see your point. Plus, had she titled it "When Evil Bastards Have Affairs" how many copies would she sell? Not many I'm guessing.

(Disclaimer: I'm not saying all people who have affairs are evil bastards.)

 

If I recall correctly, Mira states that guilt and feeling like you are a bad person is in the way of you making a decision and changing your life to the better. First when you let go of the guilt, you can see clearly.

[Lizzie60]

They are deceiving the person they are married to, the person they vowed to not betray. So how does that make them a great person? Maybe Tiger shouldn't have apologized for his actions. He should have just said, "Hey I'm a great person! Just like everyone else!"

 

How does it make that a bad person to YOU?

 

Maybe his W thinks he's bad... but for everyone else, he didn't do anythingn bad..

[Lizzie60]

That's like saying that the guy who robbed you of all your belongings while you were gone from your house is a great guy because he only cleaned out YOUR house.

 

you're talking about someone stealing some goods that belong to you... a person doesn't belong to anyone...

[FryFish]

Someone may very well realize how wrong something they are doing is, stop having the affair and choose not to tell their spouse. I have no problem with that. It's their decision.

So you would be ok if your husband was in this boat? If your husband was ****ing your sister or mother or best friend for say... 3 years... but decided that he didnt want to cheat on you anymore... you would be perfectly ok with him NOT telling you?

[SavannahSmiles]

How does it make that a bad person to YOU?

 

Maybe his W thinks he's bad... but for everyone else, he didn't do anythingn bad..

 

 

Uh.... the wife's opinion is the only one that matters in this situation because she is the one being cheated on.

[SavannahSmiles]

you're talking about someone stealing some goods that belong to you... a person doesn't belong to anyone...

 

Actually, when you are legally married you do belong to another person. You made a commitment to be faithful. If you don't won't to belong to another person, don't get married. If you sleep with someone who is married you are sleeping with someone whose heart, mind and private parts belong to another person... whether they honor that or not. It's our responsibility as decent women to stay away from other women's husbands. I learned my lesson and I'm glad I don't think the way I used to. What a f'd up way to live - f'in where you don't belong with someone else's man.

[califnan]

Actually, when you are legally married you do belong to another person. You made a commitment to be faithful. If you don't won't to belong to another person, don't get married. If you sleep with someone who is married you are sleeping with someone whose heart, mind and private parts belong to another person... whether they honor that or not. It's our responsibility as decent women to stay away from other women's husbands. I learned my lesson and I'm glad I don't think the way I used to. What a f'd up way to live - f'in where you don't belong with someone else's man.

 

-------------------

 

Yes. Marriage is under God.. The wife's body is the husband's. The husband's body is the wife's.. They belong to each other ..

[seren]

I have to disagree that H 'belongs' to me, our marriage belonged to us, the vows we took belonged to us, the betrayal belonged to him, but affected, me/us. My choice after he told me of his A was mine, he owed me truth as I had chosen to give him my trust, but I don't and never will want to own him nor him me. I don't take away the hurt, pain of deception, I think it is basically wrong to take part in any action which hurts another.

 

I hold to the view that we are each responsible for our actions, we each make our, and live to our own moral code. However, had I known H's moral code was different to mine when we married, I wouldn't have married him. I get people falling in love, I get people (like Lizzie, sorry Lizzie) who are up front about getting what they want out of an affair, but I don't get or cannot condone hurting someone else and that belongs to the person who promised another they wouldn't hurt them. Not taking away the responsibility of one human toward another not to cause pain, but that's their morality and not mine. I just wish more people were honest, I so hate the trying to justfiy why A's continue year after year and the gaslighting.

[RedDevil66]

This is not a serious question, is it? Are you saying you don't know the difference from "good" and "bad," "right" and "wrong"? I guess that means in your interactions with other people, they can do anything they want to you, and it's not something you will take offense at? You can be cheated on, lied to, abused, stolen from, etc etc., and yet you can't do anything about that because, after all, you're unable to define what a "good person" is.

 

Do you steal? Do you cheat? Do you lie? Do you intentionally hurt other people? If so, do you not regard this conduct as "bad"? If you don't do these things, why not, if there is no "good" and no "bad" (at least in your mind)?

 

 

 

A "good person" in the sense of a "good spouse" is not unfaithful to their spouse. It's very simple. I suppose instead of having an affair, you could punch your spouse in the face, but say: "Well I'm a good person, it's too bad your face got in the way of my fist."

 

Makes a lot of sense, right? No it doesn't.

 

 

 

 

Um, no, a married man who is cheating is not "good" to either his wife OR his affair partner. He is hurting both of them. He is also hurting himself.

 

The problem you are having with this rather sophomoric notion of moral relativism is that you are applying rules of personal conduct to relationship issues without first having determined appropriate standards of personal integrity.

 

If a person decides that personal integrity is simply not an important value, then they can do anything they want to anyone, and it doesn't matter. The farthest extension of this is the sociopathic personality. Unfortunately many people who have affairs, esp. serial cheaters, are basically sociopathic personalities. There's really no hope for them.

 

There IS hope for cheaters who realize that they did something very wrong and damaging, something which is actually contrary to their core personality values, and then try to seriously figure out why they betrayed themselves.

 

The conversations on LS can be very confusing because remorseful unfaithful spouses are mixed in with people who lean more towards the sociopathic end of the spectrum. It's easy to tell "which is which" by the attitudes and responses they express.

 

A cheater could wish to conceal the affair, but if they are remorseful and honest, they'll admit the real reason for the concealment is that they are afraid of the consequences. They'll realize that continued dishonesty is not good, even if they can't bring themselves to disclose because of their fear of the adverse consequences. That's a legitimate, honest answer, and a basis for further discussion: Will the damage be worse or less if the infidelity is concealed?

 

The sociopathic-tending cheater will not admit that concealment is wrong in the first place, i.e. an extension of the primary wrong of the cheating itself, because, lacking any personal integrity, they don't actually believe the cheating was wrong in the first place. If the cheating wasn't really wrong, then any of its consequences can't be wrong, either, including concealment. It's entirely for the convenience of the cheater. No remorse will be expressed for having to continue to conceal the cheating.

Again these are attitudes we can see clearly expressed here at LS and thus it is relatively easy to distinguish the two different personality types. Obviously there are large gray areas as well. But the attitudes at opposite ends of the spectrum are quite striking.

 

 

 

 

The inability to meaningfully make a distinction between 1) a serial killer and 2) an unfaithful spouse is indicative of exactly what I am talking about.

 

This is an amazing post and very well said.

I've been saying this over and over again on this site and no matter how you say it, and you said it well and very intelligent, cheaters will defend their actions and twist reality.

 

Great try and great post, but this will only be appreciated by those who actually are in reality.

[RedDevil66]

That's like saying that the guy who robbed you of all your belongings while you were gone from your house is a great guy because he only cleaned out YOUR house.

 

yes, except the robber will still thing he/she is a good person

 

[Samantha0905]

Actually, when you are legally married you do belong to another person. You made a commitment to be faithful. If you don't won't to belong to another person, don't get married. If you sleep with someone who is married you are sleeping with someone whose heart, mind and private parts belong to another person... whether they honor that or not. It's our responsibility as decent women to stay away from other women's husbands. I learned my lesson and I'm glad I don't think the way I used to. What a f'd up way to live - f'in where you don't belong with someone else's man.

 

It's our responsibility as decent women? Jeesh! If you're that decent, stop saying F. Rut roh. That was a judgment. Ouch. Maybe we shouldn't be so judgmental.

 

People don't plan affairs in advance. Stop being so high and mighty and moralistic.

 

This is an amazing post and very well said.

I've been saying this over and over again on this site and no matter how you say it, and you said it well and very intelligent, cheaters will defend their actions and twist reality.

 

Great try and great post, but this will only be appreciated by those who actually are in reality.

 

Research all of his posts. He's quite the stalker. He can sound reasonable at times and it is a farce. He twists a lot of things. He stalks. That's what happens. People think they're extra "decent." (Or they're very angry like tp.) They stop thinking they have any beams in their own eyes. It's sad in and of itself and definitely twisting reality.

 

Stop flogging others and offer some sort of love and encouragement if you're so damn real.

 

Do you steal?

 

have you ever?

 

Do you cheat?

 

Have you ever?

 

Do you lie?

 

Have you ever?

 

Do you intentionally hurt other people?

 

Have you ever?

 

If so, do you not regard this conduct as "bad"?

 

Did you when you did it? Don't say you didn't. We all do at times.

Have you learned from it all completely and become a 100% example of absolute sainthood to others? I think not, from your posts.

 

 

 

A "good person" in the sense of a "good spouse" is not unfaithful to their spouse. It's very simple. I suppose instead of having an affair, you could punch your spouse in the face, but say: "Well I'm a good person, it's too bad your face got in the way of my fist."

 

Good people make mistakes. You're very non-forgiving and forgiveness of oneself and others is a wonderful thing. It provides a peace beyond understanding.

 

You can cheat, feel remorse for it, ask for forgiveness and be forgiven. I know you don't like that -- but it can and does happen.

 

The problem you are having with this rather sophomoric notion of moral relativism is that you are applying rules of personal conduct to relationship issues without first having determined appropriate standards of personal integrity.

 

You are so full of yourself.

 

If a person decides that personal integrity is simply not an important value, then they can do anything they want to anyone, and it doesn't matter. The farthest extension of this is the sociopathic personality. Unfortunately many people who have affairs, esp. serial cheaters, are basically sociopathic personalities. There's really no hope for them.

 

Oh yes -- sociopaths run amuck. No hope at all. There's always Hope.

 

There IS hope for cheaters who realize that they did something very wrong and damaging, something which is actually contrary to their core personality values, and then try to seriously figure out why they betrayed themselves.

 

The conversations on LS can be very confusing because remorseful unfaithful spouses are mixed in with people who lean more towards the sociopathic end of the spectrum. It's easy to tell "which is which" by the attitudes and responses they express.

 

Oh goodness. LS is a sociopath hangout. Oh well. At least you can relatively easily distinguish the sociopaths from yourself.