Disclosure, datclosure

[Spark1111]

I think not telling is self-serving, self-justification, and just plain selfish.

 

It is the ACTIONS of the affair that hurts, not the disclosure of it.

 

If you truly did not want to cause me pain, you would not have HAD the affair or KEPT IT A SECRET.

 

Disclosure, while it brought pain of devastating proportions, was somewhat of a relief.

 

It explained WHY he had been so guarded, remote, and disinterested.

 

Do you realize how torturous it is to wonder 24/7 what is wrong with us? With me? How frightening to not know why someone you love has checked out on us?

 

I guess we could have improved had I never found out; but we would have NOTHING that compares to what we have today.

 

What was I suppose to do with all that self-esteem robbing uncertainty that existed during his affair? Stuff it in my pillow and forget it ever happened?

 

I would still be resentful and wary, wondering if he was going to "fall out of love" with me again without knowing why it happened in the first place.

 

And we do not just talk about the affair; we talk about everything --all the issues in our marriage, our goals, hopes, wants and dreams.

 

I couldn't imgaine it any other way. Unless, pleasant enough is what you want in a relationship.

 

I have that already. With my dog.

[kevinconner]

If the betrayed spouse can't figure out on their own that an affair took place, then indeed the level of intimacy and love they think they have in their relationship is flawed.

 

No disclosure, ever. In fact, I think it is rude, not only to the BS, but to the families involved and children.

 

What an interesting world we would live in if everyone who ever had an affair made the choice to disclose. It has never been this way, in fact from the start of time. So why choose to start now?

 

Are newly married couples in this day and age that special that they get a new set of rules on how to handle affairs?

 

Also remember what goes into an affair. I am sure, 100% sure, that there are plenty of BS on this planet who would be better off not knowing how they themselves contributed to the affair taking place. I'm not saying it was all due to them, but something had to go wrong, from baggage they brought into the relationship that facilitated the affair to take place.

[Owl]

Kevin, have you ever been the betrayed spouse?

[Owl]

If the betrayed spouse can't figure out on their own that an affair took place, then indeed the level of intimacy and love they think they have in their relationship is flawed.

 

Most BS's know that SOMETHING is wrong. But it's not always clear what SPECIFICALLY is going on until they get the 'proof'. Many want to continue trusting their WS (I was one)...we wanted to believe that they were honest/loyal/loving enough not to betray us in that fashion.

 

I'd agree...the level of love and intimacy does become flawed during an affair.

 

No disclosure, ever. In fact, I think it is rude, not only to the BS, but to the families involved and children.

 

But having the affair is FAR, FAR worse than the actual disclosure. You can't even consider "rude" in this equation. If you're willing to betray them and cheat on them...and then you're worried about whether or not you're being rude by telling? Non sequiter, my friend.

 

What an interesting world we would live in if everyone who ever had an affair made the choice to disclose. It has never been this way, in fact from the start of time. So why choose to start now?

 

You're right...what a thought! Honesty?!?!?! Wow...indeed a foreign, despicable concept that should never be brought into a relationship...what were we thinking?!?!?!

 

 

Are newly married couples in this day and age that special that they get a new set of rules on how to handle affairs?

 

Why not? Society changes all the time...it would be novel to actually introduce an IMPROVEMENT for a change, ya know?

 

Also remember what goes into an affair. I am sure, 100% sure, that there are plenty of BS on this planet who would be better off not knowing how they themselves contributed to the affair taking place. I'm not saying it was all due to them, but something had to go wrong, from baggage they brought into the relationship that facilitated the affair to take place.

 

You're right, but you're missing the possiblity (probablity) that the WS was the source of what was wrong and led to the affair. It takes two to maintain a relationship....ergo it only takes one of them to stop holding up their end of the bargain to drag the whole thing into the dirt.

[Spark1111]

If the betrayed spouse can't figure out on their own that an affair took place, then indeed the level of intimacy and love they think they have in their relationship is flawed.

 

No disclosure, ever. In fact, I think it is rude, not only to the BS, but to the families involved and children.

 

What an interesting world we would live in if everyone who ever had an affair made the choice to disclose. It has never been this way, in fact from the start of time. So why choose to start now?

 

Are newly married couples in this day and age that special that they get a new set of rules on how to handle affairs?

 

Also remember what goes into an affair. I am sure, 100% sure, that there are plenty of BS on this planet who would be better off not knowing how they themselves contributed to the affair taking place. I'm not saying it was all due to them, but something had to go wrong, from baggage they brought into the relationship that facilitated the affair to take place.

 

Hmm...and what if we didn't?

 

Or, what if every time we hit a rough patch, we just go out and find other people to meet our emotional and physical needs?

 

Most married people, if they gave themselves THAT permission, would be having affairs left and right.

 

LTRs and marriage is hard, and few do it right. It is such a rarity, phychologists and sociologists study the very happily married.

 

That is what I aspire to. Life is short and I have no interest in being adequately married or adequately in love, or partnered to share child-rearing responsibilities and mortgage paying.

 

I want to be gloriously married.

 

For companionship, I have a dog.

[jennie-jennie]

In the case where an OW/OM says "We plan to tell the BS," but the OW/OM says they are content to remain in the affair forever, when does the BS get the benefit of EVER being told and choosing how they get to live their life?

 

I get told to bring this question here to this thread for an answer, and then I don't get one.

 

 

I did not feel the question really applied to me, but I believe I am the one you are expecting an answer from.

 

"We" do not plan to tell the BS. My MM has stated that he does.

 

I contemplated telling the BS, but I have since decided not to.

 

I am not saying I am "content to remain in the affair forever". I am saying "I am content to remain in the affair for today". That might change in the future. Then I will move on.

[White Flower]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it. I also want everybody to be Civil and respectful, when rebutting another poster's ideas. I think that we can all act like adults, even when opposed in principle. So..... What is your take on this issue. 1) full disclosure 2) partial disclosure 3) delayed disclosure, or 4) Non-disclosure. If you have been involved in an affair as WS, OM/OW, BS, please say so. There is NO wrong answer. Thanks in advance, This would be very helpful to me.

LOVE your title JustJoe!

 

As a student of life I believe in full knowledge and would LOVE to tell BW everything. But I have to remember she may not be as strong as me and may just crumble under the weight of what I know about her H and it is a WHOLE lot more than just about me. He is a SC (serial cheater) and I'm not sure I could control myself in just telling MY story with him without disclosing his SC life. And like so many BW/BS have advised me, don't tell unless she asks you herself. Unless she does, she just isn't ready to know.

 

She has called my cell phone twice, once after each D-day. She never left a message so IMO she didn't really want me calling her back or she would have left a voicemail asking me to. This indicates a woman who really doesn't want to know the truth. She'd really rather live with her version of it.

[White Flower]

Hmm...and what if we didn't?

 

Or, what if every time we hit a rough patch, we just go out and find other people to meet our emotional and physical needs?

 

Most married people, if they gave themselves THAT permission, would be having affairs left and right.

 

LTRs and marriage is hard, and few do it right. It is such a rarity, phychologists and sociologists study the very happily married.

 

That is what I aspire to. Life is short and I have no interest in being adequately married or adequately in love, or partnered to share child-rearing responsibilities and mortgage paying.

 

I want to be gloriously married.

 

For companionship, I have a dog.

I love your statement! (bolded)

 

Unfortunately, though, both parties have to want to be gloriously married in order for it to work. I'm glad yours is now.

[Snowflower]

Though I could definitely have done without the pain, I don't think a marriage that has suffered an affair can really get "fixed" if both partners aren't aware of all of the situations on both sides.

 

There were obviously some grave issues for an affair to have happened. If the WS doesn't tell the BS about the affair, but only works on the problems that in their opinion led to the affair, then IMO not all of the cards are on the table, and you're not going to truly resolve the problems for both partners.

 

It was my experience that talking about all things that bothered both of us, we managed to resolve the real issues in our marriage. If we had only dealt with the issues that led to his transgression (what I was doing), but didn't ever deal with the issues that led to my problems (what he was doing), we wouldn't have had a fixed marriage at all. Had he not admitted to his infidelity, then he also would have little reason to pay attention to my issues - and I would probably have had little reason to voice them.

 

So... I vote for full disclosure for all transgressions, including a ONS that has zero chance of ever being repeated. (Though my opinion seems to change back and forth, and I believe that I've stated the exact opposite of this stance on more than one occasion... ) Which just goes to show that sometimes the pain of knowing is greater than the joy of a good marriage, and sometimes vice versa...

 

Silktricks, I tried to figure out what to write on this thread but I couldn't find the words. You said it much better than I ever could have!

 

I go back and forth on the full disclosure principle as well. Although most of the time I agree that full disclosure is the only honest way to move forward.

 

As I've written about many times here, my H confessed his A to me. I had no idea, other than some misgivings which now that I look back, all the signs were there. But hey, some of us BS, rightly or wrongly, hold on to those last vestiges of trust for a long time.

 

There have been times where I have almost wished he had never told me. That it was was his burden to bear while he secretly tried to make it up to me without my knowledge. But like Silk mentions here, we wouldn't have the marriage we have today without his confession.

 

A few months into reconciliation I asked my H why he confessed. Neither of us had heard of places like LS, neither of us were/are self-help book types of people, so he wasn't being told anywhere that he HAD to tell me the truth. In fact, he had been told not to tell.

 

He told me that he confessed because it was the right thing to do. It was the hardest thing he had ever done but that I had to know.

 

So, every time I read one of these threads about whether or not a BS should be told, I think of what my H told me. I'm glad I heard it from him. I'm glad I didn't find out the hard way. That is why I (usually) encourage disclosure when I do participate in threads like these. I also know that not all situations were the same as mine was either.

[Samantha0905]

Most BS's know that SOMETHING is wrong. But it's not always clear what SPECIFICALLY is going on until they get the 'proof'. Many want to continue trusting their WS (I was one)...we wanted to believe that they were honest/loyal/loving enough not to betray us in that fashion.

 

I'd agree...the level of love and intimacy does become flawed during an affair.

 

No, the level of love and intimacy was flawed before the affair -- and that falls on both in the marriage.

 

"Until they get the proof" shows me your focus is on the proof of the affair as being the problem. The proof of the existing issue was there before the affair and it was between the two married people.

 

 

 

You're right, but you're missing the possiblity (probablity) that the WS Or the BS somewhat? ( my comment in the middle of this quote) was the source of what was wrong and led to the affair. It takes two to maintain a relationship....ergo it only takes one of them to stop holding up their end of the bargain to drag the whole thing into the dirt.

And that particular one of them could be there on either side if you're taking sides or divisive -- or it could be there jointly between both partners. Something was wrong -- someone or someone(s) were not holding up their end of the "bargain" -- and sometimes neither party is addressing it. I tend to think it is something between two parties, but since you are addressing the fault of the WS, perhaps and maybe the BS wasn't upholding their end emotionally? I've always thought emotional abuse is even more harmful than physical abuse in many ways. In the case of affairs, I think many times both partners in the marriage are neglectful. It doesn't always mean it's the case, but I'm guessing more often than not. Edited April 20, 2010 by Samantha0905

[seibert253]

Ah, but I am not the one in a relationship with his wife.

 

What I am telling him is that in his relationship with me I only accept full and immediate disclosure.

 

Don't know you Jennie, but I like your thoughts, insight and perspective. I think your relationship with the OM is absolutely wrong, but I also see the good in you.

 

I think you deserve much more from a man, than what your OM is giving you. You deserve someone who's going to give you 100% of himself.

 

This may be a little forward, but why are you settling for less than you deserve?

[Samantha0905]

 

I am not saying I am "content to remain in the affair forever". I am saying "I am content to remain in the affair for today". That might change in the future. Then I will move on.

 

And I like this about you jennie You make your decisions. You know where your heart is right now. If it changes, you will move on.

[troggleputty]

Ah, but I am not the one in a relationship with his wife.

 

Of course you're in a relationship with your MM's wife. You're in a love triangle. How could you not realize this? Every aspect of your relationship with the MM is directly influenced by his relationship with her.

 

What I am telling him is that in his relationship with me I only accept full and immediate disclosure.

 

Well obviously that's not the case either. Your MM is well aware that you're fine with him not telling the truth to his wife. Ergo, your MM only tells you what he wants you to know. The only reason he stays with you is because you basically tolerate whatever he wants to do. He calls the shots, entirely.

 

It is more than likely that over the four years you've been with him, he's been with other OWs that you know absolutely nothing about.

[JustJoe]

I also want to add, that my intent here is not to condemn/praise the WS or the other AP or even the BS, so opinions from all sides of the issue are helpful......... thanks to all!! Everybody has (so far) been respectful, and I feel that this shows LS can be a very useful format for exchange of information. Keep it up people, we just might set a record for friendly discourse!!:)

[PlanetJanet]

I was the OW. I believe that it's impossible for the WS to have a successful relationship with the BS if he/she has no idea of what you have done behind their back. The B/S is not able to make an informed decision about their own life without that key piece of information. Maybe the BS doesn't want to forgive or live with a cheater.

 

I think it's hard to disclose but it should be done. And it should come from the WS before it comes from a stranger (like a coworker) or the OM/OW.

 

The only example I have is my own situation. I have been horribly tempted to disclose to my MM's BS but have held back. I guess she doesn't really want to know the truth because goodness knows she knows how to find me. She has asked him about me and he sidestepped her questions. She did not press. So maybe she just wants to live in denial. But I also know that in the back of her mind she suspects him. So how healthy is their marriage ever going to be if she spends the next umpteen years wondering about me and whether we had an affair?

 

Thank you.

[jennie-jennie]

Don't know you Jennie, but I like your thoughts, insight and perspective. I think your relationship with the OM is absolutely wrong, but I also see the good in you.

 

I think you deserve much more from a man, than what your OM is giving you. You deserve someone who's going to give you 100% of himself.

 

This may be a little forward, but why are you settling for less than you deserve?

 

And I like this about you jennie You make your decisions. You know where your heart is right now. If it changes, you will move on.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Seibert, I get so much from my relationship with my MM. I would like even more, that is true, but what I get is way worth it.

[carhill]

As an OM, the MW did not proactively disclose, but BH found out. Her non-disclosure was the primary reason I cut contact, and told her that directly in person before I did.

 

As a MM, I proactively disclosed, but it was delayed a couple of months until I realized the emotions from decades gone by were still there. OP was same person and, in both instances, infidelity was EA, not PA.

[crazycatlady]

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Seibert, I get so much from my relationship with my MM. I would like even more, that is true, but what I get is way worth it.

 

 

Jennie - this I really understand. And it was your words more then most everyone else's that has lead to me be peaceful and at ease in my decision to not simply forgive my H, but to let go of the negative emotions and aside for new questions that pop into my head (which I ask immediately, if not together I send him a text otherwise I tend to forget what I wanted to ask and will be left with knowing I wanted to ask something and not remember what it was lol) I don't think about it.

 

Because in the 14 years we have been together this blip of pain is minimal compaired to everything I get from him.

 

However, Spark (and I didn't quote your post)- I can did the trickle truths too....That wouldn't have flown very well, and I can definately see why you would feel it is a form of lying.

 

CCL

[JustJoe]

Jennie, I'm of two minds about delayed disclosure. In my case, I was fed up with the status quo, and caused a D-Day confrontation. Thinking back on it, would it have been better, to gradually release the info . Some people will say that it would be torture, others will say that it is being considerate. IDK?

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, I'm of two minds about delayed disclosure. In my case, I was fed up with the status quo, and caused a D-Day confrontation. Thinking back on it, would it have been better, to gradually release the info . Some people will say that it would be torture, others will say that it is being considerate. IDK?

 

Nah, I agree with those that say that trickle truth is torture.

 

It is only in a case like my MM's that I believe in non-immediate disclosure, ie where disclosure would mean it becoming even more difficult for the WS to deal with his issues. Remember that the split self theory states that the connection to the AP is the WS' only connection to his/her emotional self until he/she has healed the inner split. Cutting off this connection prematurely means cutting off the connection to the emotional self.

 

Joe, I do understand that you caused a Dday. I have myself been tempted to and fro to do this.

 

But the WS in a long term, deeply emotional affair is not yet ready to let go of either woman/man. Dday does not make this happen. During Dday the WS fights to keep the marriage. Then when things have calmed down he/she often turns once again to the AP to resurrect the affair. The WS has once again proved that he/she is not ready to let go of either of the two.

 

It is frustrating to have to deal with a lover like this, a lover who needs time to figure out his/her life, a lover who might never be capable to solve these inner issues. And then our powerlessness to do anything about it... All we can do is determine whether we think they are worth it or not, whether we want to participate in a relationship with them under these circumstances. They are who they are. Are we prepared to stand by their side when there is no guarantee of success? Can we find the inner peace to stay with them without causing damage to ourselves?

[jennie-jennie]

If, however, my MM would decide he wanted to disclose the extramarital relationship without having yet made a decision, I would support him in this. It is his decision to make, and whatever he decides I will support him and deal with the consequences that come my way.

 

It would in a sense be a relief to me if his wife was told. I don't like secrecy. I would rather have the relationship die if that is its destiny than to continue to keep it hidden for the soul purpose of keeping it alive.

[JustJoe]

Jennie, I forced disclosure, KNOWING that my MW would choose her Husband over me. My whole intention was not to force her to choose, but to make her realize what that choice would be. I felt that this would make the break-up easier for all parties, and everyone would know where they stood......It hasn't worked out that way. She now wants me more than ever, and has done everything , short of divorce, to repair things between her and I. Every day the situation gets crazier and crazier. She has told me that she had a miscarriage (she was pregnant by her husband) but I think she aborted the fetus. She is such a liar, that even if she left him for good (she has done this 5 or 6 times) I wouldn't trust her. Now, all I want is out.

[Samantha0905]

Jennie, I forced disclosure, KNOWING that my MW would choose her Husband over me. My whole intention was not to force her to choose, but to make her realize what that choice would be. I felt that this would make the break-up easier for all parties, and everyone would know where they stood......It hasn't worked out that way. She now wants me more than ever, and has done everything , short of divorce, to repair things between her and I. Every day the situation gets crazier and crazier. She has told me that she had a miscarriage (she was pregnant by her husband) but I think she aborted the fetus. She is such a liar, that even if she left him for good (she has done this 5 or 6 times) I wouldn't trust her. Now, all I want is out.

 

So, the two of you still communicate?

[JustJoe]

She communicates with me, I don't answer, and haven't for over a month. Listen... I know that she is toxic, but she, in some crazy fashion, really loves me, and the passion is mind-f**king. If she were to come to K and see me, I don't know if I have the strength to resist her, in person. For all of her faults, extreme greed, dishonesty, obsessive behavior, her treatment of her H, in spite of all this, when we are together, it feels sooooooo right. I can't explain it any plainer than that. WOW, I just TJ'd my own thread.

[Spark1111]

No, the level of love and intimacy was flawed before the affair -- and that falls on both in the marriage.

 

"Until they get the proof" shows me your focus is on the proof of the affair as being the problem. The proof of the existing issue was there before the affair and it was between the two married people.

 

 

 

And that particular one of them could be there on either side if you're taking sides or divisive -- or it could be there jointly between both partners. Something was wrong -- someone or someone(s) were not holding up their end of the "bargain" -- and sometimes neither party is addressing it. I tend to think it is something between two parties, but since you are addressing the fault of the WS, perhaps and maybe the BS wasn't upholding their end emotionally? I've always thought emotional abuse is even more harmful than physical abuse in many ways. In the case of affairs, I think many times both partners in the marriage are neglectful. It doesn't always mean it's the case, but I'm guessing more often than not.

 

In defense of Owl, myself and others......

 

We may have been lonely, emotionally distanced, and unhappy too in our pre-affair marriage.

 

We did not have an affair in an attempt to either make ourselves feel better, or to improve the marital relationship. We kept trying to work it out with our SO.

 

Our SO chose the affair to feel better about themselves.

 

There is a difference.

If you were miserable in your marriage, I assume your husband was too. Did he have an affair?

 

I didn't. It doesn't make me better than anyone. I just realized it would not have helped my primary relationship or myself, or improve my life the way I wanted it to be.

 

There is a difference in how people approach issues in their marital relationship, some much more destructive than others.