Disclosure, datclosure

[Spark1111]

She communicates with me, I don't answer, and haven't for over a month. Listen... I know that she is toxic, but she, in some crazy fashion, really loves me, and the passion is mind-f**king. If she were to come to K and see me, I don't know if I have the strength to resist her, in person. For all of her faults, extreme greed, dishonesty, obsessive behavior, her treatment of her H, in spite of all this, when we are together, it feels sooooooo right. I can't explain it any plainer than that. WOW, I just TJ'd my own thread.

 

Wow! So she really hasn't made her primary relationship any better with her H? Still contacts you? Lies to you and him?

 

Sure she hasn't done this before? Or since?

 

No new OM on the horizon yet?

 

Be careful my friend. She sounds like she has the makings of a serial cheater.

 

Run for the hills pardner!

[JustJoe]

Actually, I've been NC with her for over a month, at least on MY part. She tries to get back together, every couple of days. I really don't think she's cut out for serial cheating, sometimes I wish she would find somebody else, and leave me alone.

[Spark1111]

Nah, I agree with those that say that trickle truth is torture.

 

It is only in a case like my MM's that I believe in non-immediate disclosure, ie where disclosure would mean it becoming even more difficult for the WS to deal with his issues. Remember that the split self theory states that the connection to the AP is the WS' only connection to his/her emotional self until he/she has healed the inner split. Cutting off this connection prematurely means cutting off the connection to the emotional self.

 

Joe, I do understand that you caused a Dday. I have myself been tempted to and fro to do this.

 

But the WS in a long term, deeply emotional affair is not yet ready to let go of either woman/man. Dday does not make this happen. During Dday the WS fights to keep the marriage. Then when things have calmed down he/she often turns once again to the AP to resurrect the affair. The WS has once again proved that he/she is not ready to let go of either of the two.

 

It is frustrating to have to deal with a lover like this, a lover who needs time to figure out his/her life, a lover who might never be capable to solve these inner issues. And then our powerlessness to do anything about it... All we can do is determine whether we think they are worth it or not, whether we want to participate in a relationship with them under these circumstances. They are who they are. Are we prepared to stand by their side when there is no guarantee of success? Can we find the inner peace to stay with them without causing damage to ourselves?

 

Be careful here Jennie....

 

I know everyone is aware how often the WS chooses his wife on DDAY in an effort to maintain his family life.

 

And all you know about the BS is what you are told. So you think, she needs him, his ability to provide, they have kids and a history together blah, blah, blah.....

 

Some BSs up and file for D, move out, empty the bank accounts, and force the WS to go be with their AP, or not.

 

This is the side of the story the OW/OM rarely hears the truth about. Now given the freedom to choose with the full light of day shining upon the affair relationship, the wife is chosen.

 

I am not sure why. Not as fun, romantic, passionate when it is no longer illicit? Maybe yes.

[Samantha0905]

In defense of Owl, myself and others......

 

We may have been lonely, emotionally distanced, and unhappy too in our pre-affair marriage.

 

We did not have an affair in an attempt to either make ourselves feel better, or to improve the marital relationship. We kept trying to work it out with our SO.

 

Our SO chose the affair to feel better about themselves.

 

There is a difference.

If you were miserable in your marriage, I assume your husband was too. Did he have an affair?

 

I didn't. It doesn't make me better than anyone. I just realized it would not have helped my primary relationship or myself, or improve my life the way I wanted it to be.

 

There is a difference in how people approach issues in their marital relationship, some much more destructive than others.

 

Not to my knowledge, but I suppose one could possibly not know.

 

My point is if a relationship is hurting generally both partners know -- or at least should know. I'm pretty sure my spouse knew I was pretty damn unhappy long before the affair started. There are two people in the relationship. Yes, I think it's very destructive to a marriage to have an affair. I should not have done it. It's equally destructive to a marriage when there is a lack of communication and intimacy that lasts years and years. In my own situation, I think both me and my husband could have worked on that along the way. We didn't.

[Samantha0905]

She communicates with me, I don't answer, and haven't for over a month. Listen... I know that she is toxic, but she, in some crazy fashion, really loves me, and the passion is mind-f**king. If she were to come to K and see me, I don't know if I have the strength to resist her, in person. For all of her faults, extreme greed, dishonesty, obsessive behavior, her treatment of her H, in spite of all this, when we are together, it feels sooooooo right. I can't explain it any plainer than that. WOW, I just TJ'd my own thread.

 

LOL about TJ'd your own thread.

 

I understand what you are saying completely.

[Owl]

Not to my knowledge, but I suppose one could possibly not know.

 

My point is if a relationship is hurting generally both partners know -- or at least should know. I'm pretty sure my spouse knew I was pretty damn unhappy long before the affair started. There are two people in the relationship. Yes, I think it's very destructive to a marriage to have an affair. I should not have done it. It's equally destructive to a marriage when there is a lack of communication and intimacy that lasts years and years. In my own situation, I think both me and my husband could have worked on that along the way. We didn't.

 

I know that my wife was happy for the 16 years leading up to that time.

 

I knew that my wife was unhappy for that last year that culminated in her having an affair.

 

I did every possible thing I could think of to try to figure out what was wrong and address it.

 

The issues were that she was suffering from untreated depression, and an online gaming addiction as a result of that depression.

 

I offered counseling. I made all kinds of changes in how our house worked to try to make things easier on her. I tried to get her to sit and talk, describe to me what was wrong, help me to fix it.

 

None of that mattered...because she refused to take action to change the situation.

 

There was nothing I could do to fix the problems...because they were all within her and she refused to do anything about them.

 

I saw the distance grow as she became enamored with OM. Tried to talk to her about it, but of course there was nothing she'd do but deny ("You have nothing to worry about, we're just friends!").

 

It wasn't until d-day hit that anything would come out.

 

And it wasn't until OM was removed from the situation that we could do anything to address those pre-existing problems...

 

I insisted that she be seen by a doctor after d-day. Yep, treated for depression.

 

I insisted that we both do MC and IC after d-day...regardless if we were going to recover or not at that point.

 

It was conditional of her staying in the house after d-day.

 

Changes made on my part as a result? Minimal...absolutely minimal. Simply because the ISSUES weren't on my side of the marriage.

 

Is every case like this? No...but I've seen enough threads on here (and other sites) in the last 6 years to realize that very often the common denominator IS something lacking in the spouse who opted to cheat...and not always the spouse who was betrayed. Sure, both sides probably SHOULD make changes to improve things...but the underlying 'issues' that led to cheating are nearly always those within the WS to begin with. Otherwise...both parties would have cheated, no?

 

I can agree that there are times when the BS refuses to make changes that they needed to, and that contributed to the WS's choice to cheat. But I'd say that from what I've seen in my time here and other places...the more common issue is that these 'changes' weren't communicated...or were required to be made by the person who cheated more often than the BS who didn't.

 

Had my wife 'disclosed' the truth about what was going on with OM...we could have forced everything out in the open sooner, and dealt with the issue. Had someone else who knew about the EA came to me, I would have had much more reason to start snooping sooner...and got it all out in the open sooner.

 

Had I not found out when I did, her affair most certainly would have escalated, and we'd have never had a chance for recovery.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Owl

[Owl]

My point is if a relationship is hurting generally both partners know -- or at least should know. I'm pretty sure my spouse knew I was pretty damn unhappy long before the affair started. There are two people in the relationship. Yes, I think it's very destructive to a marriage to have an affair. I should not have done it. It's equally destructive to a marriage when there is a lack of communication and intimacy that lasts years and years. In my own situation, I think both me and my husband could have worked on that along the way. We didn't.

 

Questions on this...

 

Your spouse knew you were unhappy.

 

Did he know SPECIFICALLY what you were unhappy about? Was it completely within his capability to fix that problem? Was he entirely to blame for the source of your unhappiness?

 

Did he know just HOW unhappy you were? Did you make it clear to him that if he didn't fix the problem, you were going to take some kind of drastic measures to seek that happiness, with or without him?

 

How well was the source, potential fix, and sheer depth of your unhappiness communicated to your spouse?

 

Can you say that he knew without any doubt what you were unhappy about, how unhappy you were, and that it was entirely up to him to fix the issue?

[Got it]

xMOW: I did not tell. I left the marriage after a couple of weeks.

 

The marriage was over on its own. I was already preparing to leave due to events that had transpired earlier that year. The affair was the final catalyst for it.

 

Due to that I did not feel that adding insult to injury was needed. I was ending things and he was free to find someone else to properly love him. From the aftermath I am seeing with sMM's dday and her insane pursuits of him even during seperation I stand even more firmly by my decision.

 

I take full responsibility for me playing God with this decision. I take responsibility for it coming out later on and any consequences from that. But I don't regret it. He is in a wonderful relationship right now without the added blow to his self esteem that disclosure of an affair would have caused. Knowing that we were ending due to the fizzing out of our relationship was hard but was a softer ending. He recognized that as well and saw the turn to platonic friends at the latter stage of the marriage. Is there some self interest in my decision, absolutely.

 

If I had been interested in reconciling then full disclosure would have had to happen. That was just never an option.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, I forced disclosure, KNOWING that my MW would choose her Husband over me. My whole intention was not to force her to choose, but to make her realize what that choice would be. I felt that this would make the break-up easier for all parties, and everyone would know where they stood......It hasn't worked out that way. She now wants me more than ever, and has done everything , short of divorce, to repair things between her and I. Every day the situation gets crazier and crazier. She has told me that she had a miscarriage (she was pregnant by her husband) but I think she aborted the fetus. She is such a liar, that even if she left him for good (she has done this 5 or 6 times) I wouldn't trust her. Now, all I want is out.

 

Thanks for telling me this, Joe. It just goes to show that a premature Dday does no good.

[Owl]

Thanks for telling me this, Joe. It just goes to show that a premature Dday does no good.

 

I dunno...seems to me that it did a ton of good for JustJoe.

 

It got the truth out there, and got him out of a relationship with a whackdoodle.

 

It probably did a ton of good for her H too...because now his eyes are open and he can make some informed decisions.

 

Heck, it probably did her good in the long run too...because now that it's all out in the open, once she gets herself out of the emotional turmoil she placed herself in, she can start actually working out some REAL decisions in her life, rather than rely on the fantasy of the affair.

 

It's just didn't do her any good in the SHORT TERM view.

[Owl]

I liked your post too, Donna....but I get bonus points for the use of the word "Whackdoodle". :)

[jennie-jennie]

I dunno...seems to me that it did a ton of good for JustJoe.

 

It got the truth out there, and got him out of a relationship with a whackdoodle.

 

It probably did a ton of good for her H too...because now his eyes are open and he can make some informed decisions.

 

Heck, it probably did her good in the long run too...because now that it's all out in the open, once she gets herself out of the emotional turmoil she placed herself in, she can start actually working out some REAL decisions in her life, rather than rely on the fantasy of the affair.

 

It's just didn't do her any good in the SHORT TERM view.

 

Disclosure did get the truth out there, that is true.

 

It did not get Joe out of the relationship, it is his will power to be NC that is doing that. And I believe he already knew of her character flaws before disclosure.

 

Not sure how much good it did her husband. Didn't seem like it from what Joe has been describing earlier. Him buying cars (or whatever) to his wife to keep her happy does not seem like progress in my opinion.

 

I don't believe she has gained anything from it either. She certainly has not been able to choose between Joe and her husband.

[Owl]

Disclosure did get the truth out there, that is true.

 

It did not get Joe out of the relationship, it is his will power to be NC that is doing that. And I believe he already knew of her character flaws before disclosure.

 

Actually, it did. He's out of the relationship as a result of the disclosure.

 

Not sure how much good it did her husband. Didn't seem like it from what Joe has been describing earlier. Him buying cars (or whatever) to his wife to keep her happy does not seem like progress in my opinion.

 

But now he's aware of the situation, and has the choice to either try to reconcile in the best way he knows how (even if it's wrong), or eventually give up and walk away.

 

I don't believe she has gained anything from it either. She certainly has not been able to choose between Joe and her husband.

 

But...she IS being forced to make that choice rather than to continue to avoid it (potentially for years). Joe's pushing his side by making HIS choice...and letting her go. Her H is also making HIS choice...by choosing to stay with her, regardless of what she's doing at the moment. She's not going to be able to continue in limbo forever now...at some point, her choices are going be made for her if she continues to avoid them.

[Samantha0905]

Questions on this...

 

Your spouse knew you were unhappy.

 

Did he know SPECIFICALLY what you were unhappy about? Was it completely within his capability to fix that problem? Was he entirely to blame for the source of your unhappiness?

 

Did he know just HOW unhappy you were? Did you make it clear to him that if he didn't fix the problem, you were going to take some kind of drastic measures to seek that happiness, with or without him?

 

How well was the source, potential fix, and sheer depth of your unhappiness communicated to your spouse?

 

Can you say that he knew without any doubt what you were unhappy about, how unhappy you were, and that it was entirely up to him to fix the issue?

 

We went to marriage counseling after 10 years of marriage. I insisted. He told me recently he had told his current counselor he felt like he purposefully sabotaged our marriage counseling. He said he didn't want to listen to anything anyone had to say and felt like I was wrong and the counselor was wrong -- there was nothing wrong with him. He also told his current counselor he wished he had taken it all seriously back then and been working all this time to do his part in improving our marriage.

 

As for me -- my counselor is working with me on saying/discussing immediately my opinions or displeasure when things happen instead of letting resentments build up. I also wish I had been working right alongside my husband improving communication and intimacy in our marriage through the years.

 

There's not a soul in the world -- including myself unfortunately -- who can go back and change things that have already occurred. I can't change what has already happened in my marriage. We are both getting counseling and, hopefully, things will improve as time goes on. Right now it's at the point where one day it feels no improvements are being made and then the next, it may seem like small steps are actually being made. We shall see.

[jennie-jennie]

Actually, it did. He's out of the relationship as a result of the disclosure.

 

We will have to agree to disagree here. I believe Joe disclosed the affair because he was ready to get out. Something I have contemplated doing as well.

 

But now he's aware of the situation, and has the choice to either try to reconcile in the best way he knows how (even if it's wrong), or eventually give up and walk away.

 

This is true, although I seem to remember Joe posting that the BS was already aware of his wife's infidelity prior to this. Am I remembering wrong, Joe?

 

But...she IS being forced to make that choice rather than to continue to avoid it (potentially for years). Joe's pushing his side by making HIS choice...and letting her go. Her H is also making HIS choice...by choosing to stay with her, regardless of what she's doing at the moment. She's not going to be able to continue in limbo forever now...at some point, her choices are going be made for her if she continues to avoid them.

 

Exactly, "at some point, her choices are going be made for her", which is not a preferable solution in my opinion. I can understand how it might seem like it from the BS' view, but not from the WS' nor the OP who is not ready to end the affair's view.

[Owl]

We went to marriage counseling after 10 years of marriage. I insisted. He told me recently he had told his current counselor he felt like he purposefully sabotaged our marriage counseling. He said he didn't want to listen to anything anyone had to say and felt like I was wrong and the counselor was wrong -- there was nothing wrong with him. He also told his current counselor he wished he had taken it all seriously back then and been working all this time to do his part in improving our marriage.

 

As for me -- my counselor is working with me on saying/discussing immediately my opinions or displeasure when things happen instead of letting resentments build up. I also wish I had been working right alongside my husband improving communication and intimacy in our marriage through the years.

 

There's not a soul in the world -- including myself unfortunately -- who can go back and change things that have already occurred. I can't change what has already happened in my marriage. We are both getting counseling and, hopefully, things will improve as time goes on. Right now it's at the point where one day it feels no improvements are being made and then the next, it may seem like small steps are actually being made. We shall see.

 

I'd like to ask a question...

 

Have you considered asking for a single one on one session with you and the MC...and confess your affair to the MC (in confidence) and discussed with your MC whether or not this needs to be brought out during counseling?

 

My experience has been that MC is useless if you're not honest...as evidenced by your H's sabotaging of your original sessions...and this is a great big element that's probably not even being considered during all of this.

 

Just a thought.

[Owl]

Exactly, "at some point, her choices are going be made for her", which is not a preferable solution in my opinion. I can understand how it might seem like it from the BS' view, but not from the WS' nor the OP who is not ready to end the affair's view.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this as well. I've seen a HUGE number of WS's post on this site that were shattered on d-day when they were forced to wake up and start dealing with things...but then also relieved it was out in the open so it could be dealt with.

 

And you know what...sometimes, those choices aren't one person's to make in a vacuum either, even if it feels like it should be when you're the one standing there.

[Samantha0905]

I'd like to ask a question...

 

Have you considered asking for a single one on one session with you and the MC...and confess your affair to the MC (in confidence) and discussed with your MC whether or not this needs to be brought out during counseling?

 

My experience has been that MC is useless if you're not honest...as evidenced by your H's sabotaging of your original sessions...and this is a great big element that's probably not even being considered during all of this.

 

Just a thought.

 

I've already told my current IC about the affair and I've also told my husband. My husband and I are not getting MC at the moment. I'm going to a counselor. He's going to a counselor.

[jennie-jennie]

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this as well. I've seen a HUGE number of WS's post on this site that were shattered on d-day when they were forced to wake up and start dealing with things...but then also relieved it was out in the open so it could be dealt with.

 

And you know what...sometimes, those choices aren't one person's to make in a vacuum either, even if it feels like it should be when you're the one standing there.

 

I hope you are correct in what you are stating above (bolded). Unfortunately, from what I have seen the most common aftermath after Dday is the affair continuing deeper underground.

[Dexter Morgan]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it.

 

Yes, if someone does not disclose, then it is just added lying and betrayal on top of the affair in the first place.

 

In my situation, I could have saved 8 years of my life if she would have disclosed that she cheated while engaged. But for her own selfish reasons of not wanting the wedding cancelled, she chose to keep me in the dark and rob me of information that I needed to decide for myself what kind of life I want to live. She made that decision for me, and while not as selfish as the actual cheating, it was highly selfish nonetheless.

 

And for those that say they won't tell, but want to work on the relationship, ya, ok. lie some more while claiming to work on things.

 

If you can't be honest and truthful with someone, don't bother being in a relationship with them.

[ladydesigner]

Ok here it goes... and I ALWAYS get bashed for this...but... I am choosing not to disclose. I feel that if I were to disclose my family would suffer tremendously, especially our kids. I OWN what I did plain and simple. I REGRET what I did and was all done in the name of revenge and extremely disrespectful to everyone in my life. I am OK with my decision. I do not think my disclosing would help my marriage or my children's emotional state and yes it is MY FAULT and I should have thought of all of these things beforehand. When I was blindsided by my H's infidelity I felt nothing but pure rage and wanted to humiliate him. I can't explain this any further and I know it is not fair but life's not fair. My marriage is going great at the moment and I'd like to keep it that way. The only way my H could find out is if my XOM were to contact him and if I am at some point having to be face to face with the decision to disclose I will and will face the consequences.

[crazycatlady]

Ok here it goes... and I ALWAYS get bashed for this...but... I am choosing not to disclose. I feel that if I were to disclose my family would suffer tremendously, especially our kids. I OWN what I did plain and simple. I REGRET what I did and was all done in the name of revenge and extremely disrespectful to everyone in my life. I am OK with my decision. I do not think my disclosing would help my marriage or my children's emotional state and yes it is MY FAULT and I should have thought of all of these things beforehand. When I was blindsided by my H's infidelity I felt nothing but pure rage and wanted to humiliate him. I can't explain this any further and I know it is not fair but life's not fair. My marriage is going great at the moment and I'd like to keep it that way. The only way my H could find out is if my XOM were to contact him and if I am at some point having to be face to face with the decision to disclose I will and will face the consequences.

 

See, I can understand that. Its not like its affecting your behavior at home, you aren't riddled with guilt over it. And disclosing now would cause more problems then not. And while many here will say you are taking away his chance to decide, well, honestly, I think he did that himself with his own affair. Which is why I get so back and forth on this topic. Because I can did this reason not to tell. Even as a betrayed spouse.

 

Good luck LD.

 

CCL

[Samantha0905]

Ok here it goes... and I ALWAYS get bashed for this...but... I am choosing not to disclose. I feel that if I were to disclose my family would suffer tremendously, especially our kids. I OWN what I did plain and simple. I REGRET what I did and was all done in the name of revenge and extremely disrespectful to everyone in my life. I am OK with my decision. I do not think my disclosing would help my marriage or my children's emotional state and yes it is MY FAULT and I should have thought of all of these things beforehand. When I was blindsided by my H's infidelity I felt nothing but pure rage and wanted to humiliate him. I can't explain this any further and I know it is not fair but life's not fair. My marriage is going great at the moment and I'd like to keep it that way. The only way my H could find out is if my XOM were to contact him and if I am at some point having to be face to face with the decision to disclose I will and will face the consequences.

 

As you know, I won't bash you for it. I think you are handling things well. I'm glad your marriage is going great. I think you're a good mother to be concerned for your children's well being. What is done is done and the two of you are doing better. Keep at it! You both made mistakes. Don't live in or berate yourself for the past. Forward is the way to go. I think you can move forward fine just the way you are doing it.

[Owl]

 

I hope you are correct in what you are stating above (bolded). Unfortunately, from what I have seen the most common aftermath after Dday is the affair continuing deeper underground.

 

Actually...I'd agree. That usually is the SHORT TERM result a lot of times. It was the situation in my case as well.

 

But once it was out in the open, there was no way that I was willing to accept her continuing the affair. Not if she was going to 'stay' with me in any fashion.

 

You're right tho...for about a month is was a constant issue...she'd claim it was over...but then she'd resume contact with him...over and over.

 

Until I reached the point where I'd had enough, and told her so point blank. We had been talking about seperation...but at that point I made it clear...the choice was now...work on the marriage for real, or divorce.

 

She chose divorce. This was six years ago...and our marriage now is wonderful. It took a LOT of work...and about two years before I would consider us "recovered". But we got here.

 

It's not an immediate thing...recovery is a long road for sure.

[Owl]

Ok here it goes... and I ALWAYS get bashed for this...but... I am choosing not to disclose. I feel that if I were to disclose my family would suffer tremendously, especially our kids. I OWN what I did plain and simple. I REGRET what I did and was all done in the name of revenge and extremely disrespectful to everyone in my life. I am OK with my decision. I do not think my disclosing would help my marriage or my children's emotional state and yes it is MY FAULT and I should have thought of all of these things beforehand. When I was blindsided by my H's infidelity I felt nothing but pure rage and wanted to humiliate him. I can't explain this any further and I know it is not fair but life's not fair. My marriage is going great at the moment and I'd like to keep it that way. The only way my H could find out is if my XOM were to contact him and if I am at some point having to be face to face with the decision to disclose I will and will face the consequences.

 

I won't bash you...but I won't agree that you've made the right choice for everyone involved, either.