Disclosure, datclosure

[Dexter Morgan]

Well, thank you for that JustJoe!

 

That is HOW the majority of BS's feel upon discovery of the affair, IMHO.

 

yup, but time and time again the cheaters will try to have us believe that they are not disclosing for the BS's sake. and thats a load of crap.

 

They don't tell to spare the BS. The don't tell because they are cowards and want to further deceive and lie so that they suffer no consequences.

 

That and they are afraid that the BS, or the one cheated on, will take their own lives into their own hands and will make decisions for themselves on whether or not they want to put up with staying with someone not worthy.

 

They don't tell to serve their own interests, not to spare the BS. As if cheating wasn't selfish enough already.

 

But do we really expect anything more from them?

[JustJoe]

I want to point out that I'm not judging people who say that they don't disclose for the sake of the BS. I am just disagreeing with them. They are like all of us, free to believe what they will.

[anne1707]

BTW, I have decided that the excuse," No disclosure to spare the BS pain", is a completely selfish deceptive statement, almost as bad as the affair itself.

 

Totally agree. No disclosure is done to spare the WS pain.

[JustJoe]

That's something very few WS's have the honesty to admit. I know My MW always said that she was "sparing", her H. That is, until she just didn't care anymore, because she knew he would always take her back.

[ricardotorero]

I suppose that non-disclosure is the child response, like when you were kid and hoped you could get away with something -taking biscuits and breaking something. But I remember that if I managed to blag my way out of something, it meant I didn't feel the full consequences and therefore would be more likely to try again.

 

Forward 30 odd years and the thing that really holds back our recovery is that I had to dig and dig to find the truth and she was both prepared and happy to have this massive secret from me.

 

So for the wayward spouse try non-disclosure if you know you can get away with it, but be aware that your worst nightmare will occur when it comes out. May be best to disclose and at least your BS might have a tiny bit of respect for you irrespective of the outcome

[Samantha0905]

This also begs another question. Why do WS presume to think that THEY know what the BS should or shouldn't know? They , after all, are the failures in the marriage, not the BS. So their judgement isn't exactly the best, is it?

 

I don't agree.

 

BTW, I have decided that the excuse," No disclosure to spare the BS pain", is a completely selfish deceptive statement, almost as bad as the affair itself.

 

I don't agree.

 

No judgment from me either. You're right -- we all have an opinion and it's refreshing you added the not judging part.

[JustJoe]

Yes, Sam, you and everybody else are free to disagree with my opinion, and not be judged, but discourse is a two-way street. You say that you disagree, but give no reasons for that disagreement. If you would prefer, please PM me with your reasoning. I'm always willing to listen.>

[JustJoe]

BTW Sam, I think you've queered your own pitch. Those Ws's who say that they don't disclose "to spare the BS". YOU disclosed, and what did your husband do? Did he become an alcoholic, try to commit suicide, beat you, or display any other dramatic, hysterical reactions that some Ws's claimwill happen if they disclose ? No he behaved as most people would, he is trying to make things better. so your disagreement isn't very plausable is it?

[Samantha0905]

Yes, Sam, you and everybody else are free to disagree with my opinion, and not be judged, but discourse is a two-way street. You say that you disagree, but give no reasons for that disagreement. If you would prefer, please PM me with your reasoning. I'm always willing to listen.>

 

I didn't mean to be smarmy -- I was busy at the time.

 

I simply don't think of the WS as the "failure" in the marriage. I think a WS is someone who made a bad choice, but we all do at times. It doesn't mean they always have bad judgment in their marriage relationship. I don't necessarily think it's bad judgment to choose not to tell one's spouse about infidelity. I most especially feel this way when the affair is over, the WS knows a mistake was made, has no intention of making the mistake again, etc. I simply think it would be best not to tell in that situation. I wouldn't want to know.

 

I also don't agree with people who think not telling is simply cowardice. I know for a fact I didn't feel telling my husband was the best route to take and my reasons for not wanting to tell him were because I did not want him to be hurt. Yes, I hurt him by having the affair in the first place -- I know this. I just don't see why the hurt needs to continue. The marriage was already in trouble and the affair is just a symptom of that trouble.

 

I think it's best to work on repairing the issues that are present. I honestly don't think the affair would have happened had communication/intimacy been more developed throughout our marriage. I also don't buy the "You can't move forward with complete integrity and honor and therefore the marriage will be based on a lie, blah, blah, blah" nonsense. That thinking also makes the affair much more important than it actually was if a person realizes their affair as a mistake and chooses to continue ahead in the marriage. I know people will say well the BS should have the knowledge to make their decision with all the information. I think the majority of the time (not always) this causes extreme pain and does more damage to the marriage. Sometimes in life I probably don't find things out that may hurt my feelings very much. I'm glad I don't.

 

I do think some MC may be in order to work on the issues in the marriage -- or at least a whole lot of effort between the couple to resolve the issues that are present. I do think the WS would have to address the issues with their spouse -- as opposed to running off into the arms of another.

[Just a stone's throw]

I have been following this thread but have been too chicken to post. But, since JJ specifically called us (OM/OW) out to come and play in the sandbox and let you all know our reasons for disclosure or against, I am here.

 

I am not disclosing my A which has ended almost 2 months ago (EA after PA which ended 6 months ago). I have chosen instead to work on the areas in my marriage which I have been honest with my husband about that were what I feel the reasons that I strayed after 20+ years of marriage. There are only 3 people who know about the A. All evidence has been destroyed unless someone puts together bits and pieces from LS posts. I do not think it will be discovered but if it is, I am willing to face that and deal with the consequences.

 

I am not disclosing at this time because I feel I am much more capable of solving the problems that were in me and I do believe I can do this without hurting my husband any more than what I already have with divulging what I felt was missing in our marriage.

 

I realize that I am making a selfish choice, but I have weighed the pros and cons and for my situation, which only I can evaluate, it is what is best at this time.

 

I know this will be hard for you to believe but I do love my husband dearly and I don't want to see him hurt. I wish I could take the A back, I cannot. I am sorry for all those BS's who's stories I've read on here and my heart goes out to you for what you've gone through.

[Samantha0905]

 

I am not disclosing my A which has ended almost 2 months ago (EA after PA which ended 6 months ago). I have chosen instead to work on the areas in my marriage which I have been honest with my husband about that were what I feel the reasons that I strayed after 20+ years of marriage. There are only 3 people who know about the A. All evidence has been destroyed unless someone puts together bits and pieces from LS posts. I do not think it will be discovered but if it is, I am willing to face that and deal with the consequences.

 

I think that's a good idea. Deal with the issues which were present and the possible reasons the affair occurred.

 

I am not disclosing at this time because I feel I am much more capable of solving the problems that were in me and I do believe I can do this without hurting my husband any more than what I already have with divulging what I felt was missing in our marriage.

 

I think so too.

 

I realize that I am making a selfish choice, but I have weighed the pros and cons and for my situation, which only I can evaluate, it is what is best at this time.

 

I know this will be hard for you to believe but I do love my husband dearly and I don't want to see him hurt. I wish I could take the A back, I cannot. I am sorry for all those BS's who's stories I've read on here and my heart goes out to you for what you've gone through.

 

It may feel selfish in some ways, but I think it's also a good thing to keep the burden to yourself and not hurt your husband. It makes perfect sense to me. And you're right -- you can't change the past. I like your approach. You are doing what you think you should do and you know your situation/marriage more than anyone else.

[Samantha0905]

BTW Sam, I think you've queered your own pitch. Those Ws's who say that they don't disclose "to spare the BS". YOU disclosed, and what did your husband do? Did he become an alcoholic, try to commit suicide, beat you, or display any other dramatic, hysterical reactions that some Ws's claimwill happen if they disclose ? No he behaved as most people would, he is trying to make things better. so your disagreement isn't very plausable is it?

 

I've never heard the expression "queered your own pitch." Is that a baseball reference? Anyway, I think I know what you mean by the context and I don't think I have. I'm not totally surprised by my husband's reaction. I know him. I think each situation is different with individual players. Now, I'm not saying I know for sure my husband would react the way he did. I was also expecting an angry response as a possibility -- still am for that matter. My point is, I didn't necessarily think he would leave me over the affair. He does love me very much and I love him. We've invested a lot of years (27) into this marriage. It has some faults, but it has a lot of strengths also and we've raised and enjoy being the parents of two beautiful adult children. There's a lot bonding us.

 

I can say I'd just as soon have not told him. I think it just caused unnecessary pain.

 

As for others, I think each individual knows their own situation and their own marriage. I think it's a choice. I've sure read a lot of very bitter/angry posts from BS here. I don't know that purposefully giving the information does a lot of good things, although in some cases -- it may be for the best.

 

I just will not come to the conclusion someone absolutely has to tell in all situations.

 

I've never thought just because something works a certain way under certain conditions it will be the same for every similar situation. I don't think telling is the only and always the best option.

[jennie-jennie]

As for others, I think each individual knows their own situation and their own marriage. I think it's a choice. I've sure read a lot of very bitter/angry posts from BS here. I don't know that purposefully giving the information does a lot of good things, although in some cases -- it may be for the best.

 

Good point, Samantha, and they don't seem to get past it either.

[anne1707]

Good point, Samantha, and they don't seem to get past it either.

 

That is a harsh remark to make. You are talking about people who have been betrayed by the person they should have been able to trust above anybody else. I think they are entitled to have a very strong opinion on this subject.

[Samantha0905]

Anne, I didn't mean it in a judgmental way if you're thinking I did. A BS who finds out about the affair will certainly have a lot of anger and bitterness. I would were I in the situation as a BS.

[anne1707]

Samantha

 

I know you did not mean it that way

[seren]

I have certainly seen and heard many OW/OM being bitter when they realise that the MP was lying to them all along. When the, I will leave when (insert whatever) becomes I am leaving never. When D Day comes and they never hear from MP again, or when the I never sleep with my BS, or if I do it is to keep her sweet, in reality becomes, we had sex 3 times weekly and it was as good as ever, we made plans etc etc.

 

Of course people will be hurt and, in the early stages, angry and possibly bitter. At least the OW/OM goes into the situation knowing there is someone else involved. To assume that someone can and should have the right to make decisions about another is arrogant in the extreme, especially when that other believes that they are in a loving relationship - this can also apply to OM/OW too. I believe it is called gaslighting and only becomes known once an A is out in the open and everyone has the same information with which to make decisions about THEIR life.

 

Of course disclosure is the honest thing to do, I can see situations where those who have most to lose would argue against it, but for those of us who have been lied to over and over, disclosure at least has a hint of integrity about it, something lacking in all other aspects of an A.

 

Not bitter, disappointed, hurt, bewildered, XBS.

[PhoenixRise]

I have certainly seen and heard many OW/OM being bitter when they realise that the MP was lying to them all along. When the, I will leave when (insert whatever) becomes I am leaving never. When D Day comes and they never hear from MP again, or when the I never sleep with my BS, or if I do it is to keep her sweet, in reality becomes, we had sex 3 times weekly and it was as good as ever, we made plans etc etc.

 

Of course people will be hurt and, in the early stages, angry and possibly bitter. At least the OW/OM goes into the situation knowing there is someone else involved. To assume that someone can and should have the right to make decisions about another is arrogant in the extreme, especially when that other believes that they are in a loving relationship - this can also apply to OM/OW too. I believe it is called gaslighting and only becomes known once an A is out in the open and everyone has the same information with which to make decisions about THEIR life.

 

Of course disclosure is the honest thing to do, I can see situations where those who have most to lose would argue against it, but for those of us who have been lied to over and over, disclosure at least has a hint of integrity about it, something lacking in all other aspects of an A.

 

Not bitter, disappointed, hurt, bewildered, XBS.

 

 

I agree with all of this. It is amazing to me that when a spouse finds out they have been lied to and betrayed their reaction is characterized as angry and bitter. But when an AP finds that they have been lied to and betrayed it is just understandable because....well I suppose because only AP love is real and thus the betrayal would understandably hurt more and only AP's are allowed to feel deeply.

 

As to the issues of disclosure, it really boils down to whether or not the WS is a person who values honesty in their relationships or not.

 

Just having an affair at all says that they don't, at least at that time value honesty. For some this can be due to a variety of reasons/justifications. To just decide to never disclose and stay in the marriage while keeping the spouse in the dark says that they have made the devaluing of honesty a way of life.

 

The debate will go round and round. In most cases, those who have experienced betrayal will say they wanted and deserved the truth all along and that as a human being worthy of respect they deserve to be able to make decisions about their life with all the cards on the table. Even if those decisions don't work in favor of the WS.

 

And in most cases the WS who doesn't disclose is simply extending the same selfishness and disrespect that allowed them to get into the affair in the first place. Spin it as much as they like, they don't tell, because they don't want to face the consequences of their actions. They don't want a divorce and all that goes with that. They don't want their spouse to not trust them anymore, even though they have clearly abused that trust. They don't want the spouse to "see" them differently, even though the person who the BS thought they were (someone who would never look them in the eye and lie or cheat) is NOT who they are. They want to maintain the fiction of who they are in their unknowing BS's eyes.

 

It is purely self serving.

[Spark1111]

Well, I look at it this way.

 

I don't want to be hurt, but we can't fix what's wrong unless I know the full extent of your unhappiness and what needs are not being met by me, that were being met by the OW/OM.

 

We can go on, and continue to have a pleasant partnership which could constitute a marriage: I'll take care of the kids, you pay the bills; I'll cook three days a week, you mow the lawn.

 

That's okay for some, I guess.

 

But not me. I want more. I want it all. I don't want to be pleasantly partnered; I want to be gloriously, passionately partnered.

 

You know what you had in your affair? I want that with YOU, my spouse.

 

And I do not see any way to get that, if you protect me, keep secrets from me, refuse to share all that is in your heart and soul with me, and allow me to participate in the process of getting to true intimacy IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR ME AND DO NOT ALLOW ME TO DECIDE FOR MYSELF.

 

I think it all depends on how you define the marital relationship. There's good enough and then there is great, really amazing.

 

And in the course of keeping secrets from me, even if they break my heart, we are NEVER going to get to amazing.

 

But we could have good enough, and hell, you can live with good enough if you want to.

 

I personally do not. And it was in the full disclosure, the pain, the introspection, the understanding of all that had happened in my fWS's affair, with the help of trained counselors, that we finally acheived amazing.

[JustJoe]

I would also like to bring in the Religious factor. I asked a Chaplain friend of mine about this and he consulted other ministers, and they were virtually unanimous that any Christian or professed Christian must disclose, in order to take communion. I'm not religious myself, but it does give pause for thought.............Sam, "Queering the pitch", is a cricket term,it means the same as "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Since I started this thread I have heard many reasons, pro and con, for disclosure, and have yet to make up my mind if I did the best thing by forcing my MW to disclose. My reasons for doing this are many. I won't get into them here, so as not to prejudice anyone. I'm glad that so many people have come to this thread and been polite and respectful of the posters with views different from theirs. It shows off LS as a truly useful site for the give and take of relationship advice and experience. I am very grateful to ALL posters , who have contributed...... THANKS A LOT!!!!!:)

[JustJoe]

BTW, I don't know whether this is natural or inadvertant, but most posts have been about the single issue of disclosure. There have not been many about delayed disclosure or partial disclosure, and I would really be interested in people's opinions about those ideas, also.

[Heather1]

Alright Just Joe, I found it!

 

Well...my first go round w/ OM I disclosed to my H. We ended it, hadn't spoken for awhile & I thought it was completely over. I actually went in for STD testing because I was so freaked out about not having been with anyone else for 20 years. That was over a year ago, and we've continued since. My H thinks we've only been in contact via phone/email & haven't seen each other. So I guess I opted for partial disclosure? My reasoning was so I wouldn't hurt my H. He knew what he knew. In college, I had an extremely jealous & posesive boyfriend who accused me of everything. So yeah, eventually I did cheat & I feel like it got me out of a horrible situation & showed me that I needed to actually get away from my boyfriend more than anything else. With my H it's different. He gets R & M and cycles of people & life. He doesn't hold me up to some impossible moral standard that it appears only a few can live by. So I told him about the one time & the times we've been in touch & that's all.

 

I think it's different for everyone....yeah, if I would have M my boyfriend he would have killed me, the guy, anyone in his way. So I think if you're going to put yourself in a dangerous situation...DON'T TELL!! The other thing is if it's going to hurt the other person so badly that they'll never come back from it, only the person in that R would know that.

 

So what do I think?? I don't think people should tell, I think it's almost selfish in a sense to tell someone & have them deal with all that goes with it in an effort to absolve yourself of guilt & make the BS freak out. What I think should happen (if people want to stay M), is get out of the A as best you can & suffer with your own guilt in silence & hope to make it up to your spouse in other ways. I mean really? If you disclose the other person may never forgive you & you both might turn into people you really don't want to be M to. The M will never be the same.

[JustJoe]

Heather , is it better to be married to somebody you have no desire for, and have to live a lie, or is it better to be honest, possibly lose the marriage and both leave it as honest people, ready to start life with a clean slate? Marriage is not the be-all or end-all of life, you know.

[crazycatlady]

Alright Just Joe, I found it!

 

Well...my first go round w/ OM I disclosed to my H. We ended it, hadn't spoken for awhile & I thought it was completely over. I actually went in for STD testing because I was so freaked out about not having been with anyone else for 20 years. That was over a year ago, and we've continued since. My H thinks we've only been in contact via phone/email & haven't seen each other. So I guess I opted for partial disclosure? My reasoning was so I wouldn't hurt my H. He knew what he knew. In college, I had an extremely jealous & posesive boyfriend who accused me of everything. So yeah, eventually I did cheat & I feel like it got me out of a horrible situation & showed me that I needed to actually get away from my boyfriend more than anything else. With my H it's different. He gets R & M and cycles of people & life. He doesn't hold me up to some impossible moral standard that it appears only a few can live by. So I told him about the one time & the times we've been in touch & that's all.

 

I think it's different for everyone....yeah, if I would have M my boyfriend he would have killed me, the guy, anyone in his way. So I think if you're going to put yourself in a dangerous situation...DON'T TELL!! The other thing is if it's going to hurt the other person so badly that they'll never come back from it, only the person in that R would know that.

 

So what do I think?? I don't think people should tell, I think it's almost selfish in a sense to tell someone & have them deal with all that goes with it in an effort to absolve yourself of guilt & make the BS freak out. What I think should happen (if people want to stay M), is get out of the A as best you can & suffer with your own guilt in silence & hope to make it up to your spouse in other ways. I mean really? If you disclose the other person may never forgive you & you both might turn into people you really don't want to be M to. The M will never be the same.

 

Another post for not telling that I can totally get behind. Even as a BS.

 

But to Joe's question.....if my H had refused to answer my questions, which were very probing, reconciliation would have been harder. I wanted to know. I weighed asking vs the fact that once I knew I couldn't unknow and asked anyway. Some he worried would upset me - it never did - and sometimes he wasn't worried - which was the one time it did hurt me - but he answered honestly and fully. There was one time he said that I really didn't want to know and I didn't push it. I think its going to end up that he slept with her in our bed. I might ask later on. The second time I ask, he will tell me.

 

I weigh carefully what I ask because he's recommitted himself to telling me the truth. Course I've always been the type of poke at the bruise to see how much it still hurts.

 

I think in the face of an outright question, truth is always what you give.

 

CCL

[JustJoe]

CatLady, I'd prowl around your door, any day.