/I'm about to have an extramarital affair. Just meeting my needs./

[cdn]

why do so many of you assume that a divorce is a better solution than a fling?

 

I don't. I thought I was clear about that in my post.

[jenny]

i think your mind is made up, Ardea. you probably do not need these, but here are a few tips from my freedom-loving guy friend on how to manage this so your partner will not find out. i'm sure you know how to watch for your physical safety, and i imagine you can suss out your partner's level of discretion by seeing how much he talks about other women/how he handles himself, etc; these are just general things he wished he would have thought of beforehand:

 

 

1. most important: discreet and discrete, if possible. your risk level escalates the more often you meet with the same person, as does the emotional risk. this was not true of him, but women may have a higher risk

 

2. set aside 30 concentrated minutes thinking about any trail of clues: does he know about this website? does he have any access to your computer? it might be a good idea to change all passwords, and reset your IP address. any physical evidence in your car or on your person? any foreign smells/strange mileage/unexplained VISA purchases/etc? this will reduce stress and worry if you are methodical about it - ask yourself all the "forensic" questions you can think of.

 

3. decide against guilt and shame at the onset, and stick with that decision. you know why you're doing this; don't get sidetracked.

 

4. make sure the partner is worth the risk: this should be literary-level banging to justify the time/expense/thinking time.

 

5. don't be too surprised if it ends up making you more unhappy in your marriage. it might, it might not. that's the biggest risk, in my eyes - that this will not bring you happiness.

 

i don't give a figgy pudding about morality; i'm just concerned about the value/benefit assessment of this venture.

 

would it be possible for you to travel and have an affair while away? that way you undergo new stimulation, the forensics difficulties are reduced, and you come away with a whole experience instead of just a tussle.

 

if you're up for it, PM to tell us how it goes. well, hell, you'll have the balls to post it. godspeed, babies.

[moimeme]

i don't give a figgy pudding about morality; i'm just concerned about the value/benefit assessment of this venture

 

Exactly. What most of us are doing is the pro/con assessment and some of us happen to come down on the side of 'con' because we think the risks and potential for negative outcomes far outweigh the benefits (i.e. a good shag).

[meanon]

Originally posted by Enigma:

But Meanon, wouldn't the end results be the same whether choosing divorce or adultery? If she can't leave husband because of his mental stability, or her financial/emotional dependence on the marriage...how would the consequences of getting caught be any different?

 

I don't believe any of us know the consequences.

 

Maybe, despite the damage, they will communicate and begin to resolve their problems once he realises he will lose her if he doesn't;

 

maybe the marriage will end (Ardea is not able to choose divorce at the moment);

 

maybe he won't find out and Ardea will continue in her marriage or choose to leave it with her sanity intact;

 

maybe he will turn a blind eye as he has done to her unhappiness so far, possibly because he no longer wishes/feels able to fulfill the role of a partner but loves and depends on her too much to let her go completely.

 

Ardea seems to think he will turn a blind eye. This is not uncommon. Is there any value in observations about the nature of such marriages? Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I can't see that stating the obvious is helpful - people compromise on their ideals for what they perceive as the best interests of their families.

 

Research on the effect of divorce on children in mixed, reflecting a variety of experiences. There is now a sizable body of research (eg. at random: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2001-02/UoM-Eodo-1402101.php) indicating that the effect of divorce is dependent on the visibility of marital conflict pre-divorce. Children most affected by overt conflict tend to experience a neutral or beneficial effect of divorce whereas those less affected, where the signs of conflict are more concealed, tend to experience a more devastating effect. Ardea is best placed to make these decisions for her family.

[sinny]

Ardea, all I can say is if you feel you are living in a marital hell - YOU CREATED IT... It's not all this whimpering simpering acned beast's fault. You were there too. If you want the type of marriage where you don't have sex, can't talk, stay together for the children and money, and cheat on each other, then -congrats, you're on your way. If you want anything better, ever - with him or anyone else, you have alot of work to do. If you don't want to do the work, then you made your bed, go ahead and lie in it - with as many men as you can handle...

[Arabess]

If people didn't have various opinions....this would not be a 'forum'.....it would be a 'monologue'.

 

You post your thing.....read all the options and opinions....and make a decision. If someone takes a post which comes in from another angle personally...they've chosen the wrong medium.

 

Ardea is a seasoned Shacker....I hope she will do whatever she has to do in order to feel her life is worth living.

 

......cdn....that was ONE FINE POST!...............

[midori]

Originally posted by cdn

When did this become a debate forum? I thought its purpose was (excerpted from the Love Shack welcome statement):

 

an interpersonal relationship advice and assistance center

 

Don't misunderstand. I think civilised, intelligent debate is great fun. But in order to achieve the mission of an advice and assistance center, it seems that debate threads should be separate from advice/support threads.

 

I think this is worth bearing in mind.

 

Returning to the subject at hand, I would just like to raise a question that has been touched on indirectly, but (as far as I know) hasn't come up in its own right: Ardea, do you really think that staying in the marriage is the best thing for your husband?

 

I can see how you feel trapped by your obligation to your unhealthy husband. But what is he really getting out of the marriage at this point? Is it possible that, even while he's clinging to it, the marriage is something that is preventing him from getting out of his current state? Kind of a cancerous security blanket?

 

Obviously if you were to leave him, crisis would ensue for him. Would that be an entirely bad thing? Right now he's a miserable mess of a person, clutching a spouse who is repulsed by him. Heaven only knows what your children think -- and regardless of their age, they know all is not well.

 

My sister's brother-in-law is a heroin addict. Her poor in-laws tried for years to help their son: they took him into their home numerous times. He stole from them, his rehab programs ate through their retirement savings. He'd make some small progress, but within a year would be back on drugs. It seemed like a hopeless cycle, until they finally got the strength and courage to cut the safety line. They sold their house and bought an apartment that does not have room for him to move into. They've eliminated themselves as an avenue of dependency for him. He's doing much better.

 

Obviously I don't know the specifics of your husband's problem. I don't know much about your situation at all, other than the fact that you're very unhappy in a sham of a marriage, and your husband is apparently so fragile that you're not even allowed to give voice to your own unhappiness. That says to me that he knows the marriage sucks, that he's a burden.

 

I'm just putting this out there: who is the marriage reallyhelping? Not you... and maybe not him.

[meanon]

I agree it's not a debating thread but one that seeks to provide advice. Personally I have remained with the thread, not for the debate (interesting though it is) but for this:

 

Originally posted by Ardea:

You know...as someone with a difficult load and a hard decision made...I find that it's not the loud, angry voices that speak to me (tuning them out is almost automatic), but rather those soft and subtle statements that really resonate. The number one thing I've gotten from LS has been sympathy...it's great to hear people recognize that I am suffering. My husband won't ever let that be spoken, and I can't talk about the depth of our problems to my family or friends. So where else can I truly speak my mind except to "strangers"?

 

I intended my posts to be sympathetic and supportive, of value as Ardea has particularly said that is what she needs at this time and as there are many posts from differing perspectives which she may perceive as unsupportive.

[ArdeaCandidissima]

I came here looking for advice and sympathy. My sincere thanks to those who understood that and offered, including meanon and midori. I agree that my original post was not the clearest. But then it was not an easy thing to say and I was not feeling articulate.

 

I felt amazingly wounded by some of the ill-informed slurs thrown at me last night. If sinny and Errol intended to wound, they succeeded. And Errol, if you mistook me for someone else when you called me disgusting, belligerent and demeaning to others, now would be the time to acknowledge your error.

 

How many of us post from the spirit of helping...and how many just love to "score a point" and know that they are right and looking good? If you think your replies are especially zingy...maybe they shouldn't be posted.

 

I'm vacillating now on whether to sign off permanently. I came here for challenging discussion and advice, but not to get knives in the gut...especially unfair ones.

[meanon]

Ardea,

 

If you feel in need of continued support but are unable to seek it please PM me anytime.

[sinny]

Ardea, I did not write to try and make you feel horrible. I'm sorry if you took it that way. But I do think all of us need to take responsibility for the relationships we get ourselves into instead of blaming the other person and playing victim. That is just a strong belief of mine. I don't think any of us can be happy otherwise. You are obviously struggling and in a tough situation. Maybe I was too blunt, but you are not just dealing with your own life here - you have a husband, kids... I just think you need to take a long hard look at your role in creating the situation before you do anything rash that will ultimately cause more pain...

[UCFKevin]

Everything I said, I wholeheartedly stand behind. Regardless of her feeling like this is the right thing to do, this is a public forum where I can say whether or not I think what she's doing is a good idea or a bad idea and I stated my reasons. I don't think we have to be completely supportive of something someone has decided to do. Like I said before, being supportive doesn't always mean backing up a decision. It could mean saying, "No...bad idea, don't do it." I dunno if she's upset with me personally for that, but like I said, I stand behind what I previously wrote all the way. It wasn't meant to make her feel bad or to be mean or anything like that. But I sure as hell wasn't going to say, "Yeah, go have an affair! Go girl!"

[Bronzepen]

I agree with moimeme.

 

 

LS is a forum not a support group. When your in a forum you should expect the unexpected. You don't walk into a room full of strangers and ask for advice and sympathy (like Ardea stated in post 109) and expect everyone to do it. Your gonna have a little of everything. Some will sympathise and some will not. Some will give advice and some will just voice their opinions. It's up to the person who posed the question to form their own conclusion based on the postings in the forum.

[lostforwords]

I remarked once that I felt that people having affairs were 'selfish'. I do believe that, but it is not aimed at any one person or poster. It is my general belief about the nature of affairs. It will remain the same no matter who posts and therefore there is nothing personal about it.

 

Why make this statement when you know your just dousing gas? Just because your not adding someones name in your posts... does not mean we dont take what you say peronally... We get it... every person in this forum that admits to infidelity or offers support to someone who has already clearly made up there minds is considered selfish in your eyes... your statement above just further proves jester is right in every sense of his post... I dont know whether to shake your hand for further validating and providing proof to his post or whether to shrug you off.... its bittersweet.... accept the fact when someone says enough is enough and is drowning you out.... that it means just that and maybe your "Schindler" behavior is not needed, warranted or even acknowledged.... not everyone is looking to be saved.... or needs to be saved.... an opinion is an opinion..... when its said more than once its considered a brainwashing tactic IMO. flame me if you wish..... at least someone else will be left alone.

[UCFKevin]

I would rather try to help someone and save them instead of biting my tongue and letting them go ahead with something that could potentially be a gigantically bad mistake. But that's just me.

[meanon]

The link with Barks' thread has been made - a useful point for those not familiar with the background. That thread fully aired these issues in an appropriate forum ie one for debate. With a few exceptions this has been a far more considered, constructive thread than many recent ones. Please let's end on this positive note. PLEASE!!!

[metal_chik]

I really hate to hear that Ardea is considering leaving b/c of the comments of some....my guess is that no one one here was trying to be mean or hurtful, just giving their opinions(however mean rude or hurtful some seemed to be). I hope I wasn't one of the ones to make u consider this, I did try not to sound mean or condemning, and if I was I am very sorry for this.

 

As for moi...bickering was just the word that came to mind, and personally a lil "bickering" can be very helpful or whatever word u use...urs seems to be debate, which works just as well and maybe in my case that's what I shoulda said.

 

Ardea u said u can't talk to ne one about this other than strangers...me personally, a strangers opinion about me doesn't make a flyin flip to me...so please don't let us run u off

[Thinkalot]

Phew! I just read through this thread. Ardea, I don't support cheating on a spouse, but I am not in your shoes and can't imagine how you feel. Without telling you what to do one way or the other, I simply send you my best and hope life becomes happier for you soon.

 

I don't think I am one of the major players on this site in terms of debates, I tend to lurk in the background and observe a lot of the time, unless I have an issue of my own I want help with, or feel I am in a position where I have enough knowledge to help someone or offer them advice.

 

You are obviously in pain, and I do feel for you.

[amerikajin]

Wow! Definitely the thread of the week at LS.

 

To date, the best post has been (yet again) from a fellow by the name of jmargel. I don't think he was at all trying to pontificate or be demeaning; he was only trying to use his experiences to persuade the poster to reconsider her actions.

 

Ardea, I won't sit here and tell you "I know how you feel". Although I know what it's like to be living with someone in a failed relationship, my situation was quite different from yours. I wasn't married, and the child in the house was hers, not mine. When it became obvious that we weren't gonna work, we talked it out like civil, mature adults and I packed my s*** up one sad Sunday morning and drove three states away to my mother's house.

 

Unfortunately, you're now stuck in a house with a guy who's basically teetering on the edge of complete mental breakdown, and you're all together in the house with YOUR kids. It's a much more difficult situation for you, and I can appreciate and respect that you are doing what you feel is your duty to remain true to your commitment to your family, and, at the same time, pursuing some of your own innate needs that need to be satisfied.

 

When I look at this situation objectively, though, I first try to analyze what the real problem is, and what the solution is as well. The problem is that your husband is mentally ill. The solution is that he needs to see a doctor - a good one. Maybe more than one. I know that the sex is more about you helping yourself than it is about him getting treatment, but I think your goal should be to focus on the big picture here (your marriage), and I don't see how cheating helps your bottom line. I think you might get your jollies off and at first it won't be such a big deal. After a while, though, you might run the risk of losing any degree of connection to your husband, what precious little of it is left anyway. And what if you run into someone else to whom you do somehow develop an attachment? Then you've not only cheated, but you've done the very thing you're telling us you won't do - here and now. I think it's always easier not to go down the wrong road in the first place than it is to change directions once you've walked fifty paces.

 

My father, who was a pyschiatrist, once said that marriage is ultimately defined by the two people in the relationship, and I would agree with that. None of us can impose our will upon you. I don't agree with your decision, but it's obviously not mine to make. I just hope you'll really think about this thoroughly before you get involved in something you can't get out of so easily.

 

And yes, you do have my sympathy. I wish you nothing but the best.

[amerikajin]

Consider this an addendum to my previous post. I went back and re-read the first account of your situation and now have a better understanding of the situation.

 

You've already consulted a psychologist. You've done just about everything that could ever be expected of a woman in terms of getting him help. I guess the question you have left to ask is simple: can you spend the rest of your life with someone who will in all likelihood be mentally ill and place the burdens of family life almost solely on your shoulders? What if this weren't a mental illness? What if, instead, he were a paraplegic? You'd still be dealing with the same situation. Yes, it's unfair that you have to do all the work. Yes, it's unfair that you can't be sexually satisfied. Life happens.

 

I guess that poses another question: what does marriage mean to you?

 

Some people believe that you stay married no matter what.

 

Some people believe that you stay married no matter what as long as the other person's doing everything in his power to help himself.

 

Some people believe that you stay married until it becomes obvious that two partners have "irreconcilable differences".

 

If you want to stay married, I don't think cheating helps; if anything, it hurts. That's just my opinion, though.

 

And just so you know, I'm not preaching. I know you're in a tough spot. I guess like most people here, I'd like to think my thoughts could help.

 

Again, you've got my sympathy. Hope it all works out somehow.

[amerikajin]

Commenting on the forum brawls, I've said it before and I'll say it again: post your indiscretions at your own risk. We aren't priests behind a confession table and we're not mental health counselors. The feedback is free, and perhaps people get what they pay for and not much else sometimes.

 

I have much sympathy for the poster in question as I've said twice already. At the same time, everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it is pertinent to the issue at hand, and insofar as the commentary doesn't become an ad hominem. Posters have to be aware, though, that some of the remarks are going to be candid - and in some cases they're going to be brutally blunt in their criticism. If people can't handle that, they shouldn't post here. Or at the very least, they shouldn't condemn others when they say something they don't like.

 

Somewhere, a balance must be struck.

[jester]

Commenting on the forum brawls, I've said it before and I'll say it again: post your indiscretions at your own risk.

 

That's fine. Many people with needs won't post, then. Why risk a post assault? We'll all end up talking about walking our dogs. Or the latest reality TV show. Blunt criticism is one thing, an assault is another. Ardea was assaulted , here.

 

 

Or at the very least, they shouldn't condemn others when they say something they don't like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me see if I understand this correctly: Married advice seekers as punching bags? Incredible. Ardea was not complaining about criticism of her behavior, but of a withering assault on her very person. That's one step too far.

 

 

 

Somewhere, a balance must be struck.

 

I agree, a balance should be struck. I don't believe telling someone who has just been mugged online to suck it up and accept her punishment is terribly balanced.

 

Let's be honest: we're not talking just about criticism, here, blunt or otherwise. There's something about infidelity that causes some, not all, posters to throw off all restraints and demean, insult, denigrate and assault straying spouses.

 

 

Admitted pedophiles got a warmer reception from some at LoveShack than Ardea.

 

That's sad.

[amerikajin]

>>>That's fine. Many people with needs won't post, then. Why risk a post assault? We'll all end up talking about walking our dogs. Or the latest reality TV show. Blunt criticism is one thing, an assault is another. Ardea was assaulted , here. <<<

 

With all due respect, Jester, but...."Assault"?! Maybe I missed it. I admit I don't read all posts and even the ones I do read I don't always read verbatim.

 

I'm aware of the comment made, and for what it's worth I don't think it was appropriate, either. But I think he was expressing frustration with this person over some things that emanate from a previous confrontation between the two - issues not necessarily related to this discussion. Not that it makes the comment any nicer or more appropriate, but I think we have to see it for what it is: a poster who momentarily stepped out of bounds in a confrontation with another poster. I'm sure the moderators have been watching this one carefully to make sure it doesn't get too far out of hand, but some barbs are to be expected from time to time.

 

>>>Let me see if I understand this correctly: a straying advice or support seeker whose character is maligned as disgusting should meekly accept character assassination without protest? Married advice seekers as punching bags? Incredible. Ardea was not complaining about criticism of her behavior, but of a withering assault on her very person. That's one step too far.<<<

 

Well, I respectfully disagree with your synopsis of the situation. She wasn't soliciting advice on what we thought of her getting it on with HER man in bed; she was soliciting feedback on doing the deed with ANOTHER man in bed. To expect there not to be negative and occasionally sharp commentary in return is just plain naive - and I say that as someone who's fully cognizant and respectful of the fact that she's dealing with a lot of complex issues all at once, and I symapthize with her to that end. Yet as much as I'd like to think sometimes that my opinions neatly encapsulate the entire substance in a given discussion, the fact is that others are entitled to their own opinions as well. She solicited comments, she got them.

 

>>>I agree, a balance should be struck. I don't believe telling someone who has just been mugged online to suck it up and accept her punishment is terribly balanced. <<<

 

I didn't mean to imply "anything goes". I said post your indiscretions at your own risk. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't think we're saying she should wear the scarlet letter A on her forehead, but what's wrong with shooting straight and telling someone they don't think they're using their 'noggin'?

 

>>>Let's be honest: we're not talking just about criticism, here, blunt or otherwise. There's something about infidelity that causes some, not all, posters to throw off all restraints and demean, insult, denigrate and assault straying spouses. Infidelity is a license for some to abuse in the name of some Moral Pogrom.<<<

 

That "something" is called emotion. And what you forget is that there are people on the other side of cheating who've been hurt like hell because of it, and that it still stings them to this day - and that it's not only the cheated spouse who gets hurt. Children are often the ones who have to suck it up and accept the fallout from it, having absolutely no control over the situation. So while it's at times unfortunate that the raw emotion hijacks a poster's analysis and ends up flowing through their fingers, is it not to be expected at least once in an audience of unknown size, all of whom come from different perspectives based on their experiences?

 

>>>I will continue to condemn these cruel character attacks as violative of LoveShack's mission as a place for advice and support, as offensive to basic human decency and civility and as plain wrong.<<<

 

Jester, I've found you to be a good voice on this site, and I hope you'll come back (as I do Ardea). I think we all just need to take a step back and get past this without throwing gasoline on the fire. There probably were a few comments that transgressed the boundaries of decency, but I haven't seen any relentless taunting or assaults as you have. I think our energy is better spent contributing to a more useful discussion in the future and letting the water flow under the bridge.

[aef]

Well, I know that I am late to this party and haven't looked through all 7 pages, but after reading your first few posts, Ardea, I find our situations very similar. I opted for the affair and it basically acted as the catalyst for the inevidable - not a bad thing, IMO, but still the questions linger. Things could have been done differently.

[jmargel]

With my post, I wasn't trying to be assulting. If you took it that way, I apologize. The reason why I was so blunt was to try to get a point across.

 

Apparently you made up your mind, and just want that 'ok' from people to do it. Of course you'll have people who will say yes, do it & others that will say no. The thing is, YOU will have to live with the decision, not us. Our lives go on, while you are still unhappy.

 

I am telling you from a previous experience I had, that when I slept w/ that married woman it was a very shallow experience. Even though she was a friend and her marriage was just as bad as yours. She then became very attached to me, telling me she loves me, etc.. I knew it wasn't love it was only because I was the only man in the 20 years of her marriage that actually listened to her & cared about her. The sex part was wrong in so many ways.

 

It complicated alot of things in her marriage, but she was only able to regain herself by leaving him. She is still trying to get out of it completely.

 

I see what you are trying to do is to put a band-aid on a gaping wound that requires stitches. It might help the bleeding for a very small amount of time, but in the long run you know you have to go through some painful times in order to feel better again. Those painful times might include you leaving him.

 

I wish he could post on here. The mental unstability might even be corrected with the right medication. Sleeping with someone else is NOT going to solve anything. Trust me on this.