First real fight, did I over-react?

[SadandConfusedWA]

Wow, you are using depression as an excuse for everything. Don't you have any pride? Even at my craziest, I have NEVER went beyond 2 attempts of unreplied contact in a row. It's more like one 99% of the time.

 

Even if he says that everything is fine, rest assured that this is a big black mark against you. Poor guy, he can't even have a free evening to have fun with his friends

 

 

Also, I really think that messing up and apologizing profusely can sometimes be even worse than messing up and not apologizing at all. Messing up/apologizing cycle just makes you seem very unstable. If you mess up and don't apologize, other person starts to think that maybe you were right to get pissed and they start to doubt themselves or even try to make it up to you. As someone who is very impulsive, not apologizing or rarely apologizing has worked MUCH better for me.

[Els]

Wow, you are using depression as an excuse for everything. Don't you have any pride? Even at my craziest, I have NEVER went beyond 2 attempts of unreplied contact in a row. It's more like one 99% of the time.

 

Even if he says that everything is fine, rest assured that this is a big black mark against you. Poor guy, he can't even have a free evening to have fun with his friends

 

 

Also, I really think that messing up and apologizing profusely can sometimes be even worse than messing up and not apologizing at all. Messing up/apologizing cycle just makes you seem very unstable. If you mess up and don't apologize, other person starts to think that maybe you were right to get pissed and they start to doubt themselves or even try to make it up to you. As someone who is very impulsive, not apologizing or rarely apologizing has worked MUCH better for me.

 

NO, I disagree. If my bf hadn't explained and apologized for a few of his depressive episodes, I would probably have been long gone by now. Frankly, I wish he'd been able to swallow his pride and apologize more often. Apologizing shows that you are taking responsibility for that bit of 'craziness', that the REAL you actually isn't like that and cares about how your lashing out at him might have made him feel. Btw, I think that's the part that's bad, the 'really let him have it' part, as opposed to only the calling.

 

I honestly think that if a guy dumps you over ONE minor crazy episode, he doesn't deserve you during your good times. But Shadow has a point - he may not be consciously filing stuff away, but all humans are gifted with a memory. If it begins to repeat itself, it will get tiresome.

[SadandConfusedWA]

NO, I disagree. If my bf hadn't explained and apologized for a few of his depressive episodes, I would probably have been long gone by now. Frankly, I wish he'd been able to swallow his pride and apologize more often. Apologizing shows that you are taking responsibility for that bit of 'craziness', that the REAL you actually isn't like that and cares about how your lashing out at him might have made him feel. Btw, I think that's the part that's bad, the 'really let him have it' part, as opposed to only the calling.

 

I honestly think that if a guy dumps you over ONE minor crazy episode, he doesn't deserve you during your good times. But Shadow has a point - he may not be consciously filing stuff away, but all humans are gifted with a memory. If it begins to repeat itself, it will get tiresome.

 

With all due respect, you as a woman are a lot more tolerant of mental and emotional issues than men are. There is nothing that repels men more than "the crazy". Repeatedly apologizing to a man that you acted crazy because of mental issues is really putting nails in the coffin of a relationship. To a guy, "controlling and bossy" girlfriend is preferable to "emotional mess" girlfriend.

[Els]

With all due respect, you as a woman are a lot more tolerant of mental and emotional issues than men are. There is nothing that repels men more than "the crazy". Repeatedly apologizing to a man that you acted crazy because of mental issues is really putting nails in the coffin of a relationship. To a guy, "controlling and bossy" girlfriend is preferable to "emotional mess" girlfriend.

 

Uh, with all due respect, a man who prefers to be with a 'controlling and bossy' girl as opposed to a girl with depressive episodes who is trying to handle it and do damage control after the episode, is dumb.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Uh, with all due respect, a man who prefers to be with a 'controlling and bossy' girl as opposed to a girl with depressive episodes who is trying to handle it and do damage control after the episode, is dumb.

 

hey, I don't make up the rules. This conclusion was drawn after years of observation of my own, my friend's and LS relationship dynamics.

[Els]

Gosh, that makes me feel even sadder about the state of the opposite gender. :/

[shadowplay]

Unfortunately I agree with SadbutConfused. It really peeves me how insensitive most men are to mental issues (depression, etc.), but that's definitely been my experience as well. Human nature isn't fair. It pisses me off because I tend to be ultra sensitive to the issues of others if they're making an effort to change. Also, I agree about the not apologizing to an extent.

[shadowplay]

Messing up/apologizing cycle just makes you seem very unstable. If you mess up and don't apologize, other person starts to think that maybe you were right to get pissed and they start to doubt themselves or even try to make it up to you. As someone who is very impulsive, not apologizing or rarely apologizing has worked MUCH better for me.

 

Interesting, this has been my experience as well. There are exceptions where an apology is necessary, but generally over-apologizing makes you seem weak and out of control to the other person. Very confident people apologize less often, even though they make mistakes like everybody does. Better to be strong in your convictions, even if they're the wrong convictions.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Interesting, this has been my experience as well. There are exceptions where an apology is necessary, but generally over-apologizing makes you seem weak and out of control to the other person. Very confident people apologize less often, even though they make mistakes like everybody does. Better to be strong in your convictions, even if they're the wrong convictions.

 

Exactly, I mean sometimes you will be out of line in a very obvious way or you can see that you have really hurt the other person - then I have no problem apologizing. But most of the time, I have discovered that you can turn an impulsive over-reaction into a "standing up for yourself" moment if you simply hold your ground and don't apologize. You are essentially shifting the power balance in your favour.

[Els]

Isn't it sad when a relationship turns into a power-struggle instead of doing what makes the other person feel best, assuming he reciprocates?

[Stockalone]

OK, so the fight. Basically he didn't call me back last night, after he said he would. He was out with friends, got drunk, came home and passed out. Fine, kind of forgivable, because we've all been there. But I had called five times, left a vm, and a couple texts. He saw all this, and still didn't attempt to even text me back. He's diabetic, so sometimes I worry about him living by himself in case something happens to him.

 

Did you know that he was out with friends that night?

 

If you couldn't reach him and thought he was alone and were worried because of his diabetes, I can understand why you'd call often.

 

 

This next morning he called me, and I really let him have it...like to the point where I think he was afraid of me. I was incredibly hurt that he saw my numerous attempts of contacting him and couldn't muster up the 10 seconds it takes to call or text me. Granted, we've all been drunk, come home and passed out, but at some point during the night, he could done the courteous thing gesture to contact me, as I always do with him.

 

I don't drink, so I don't know how likely it is that he simply forgot to call you when he said he would.

 

Personally, if an SO of mine had said she would call me and then didn't, I would be pissed too. Especially if she was too drunk.

 

 

He apologized profusely, telling me he messed up and that it wasn't anything he did on purpose, but that it just slipped his mind -- which is my whole point of the argument -- he WASN'T thinking about me at all. I was not taken into consideration. This hurts.

 

I can understand why you feel that way, though. In an LDR, the last thing we want is feeling like we are playing the second fiddle. A LDR requires a lot of trust, but also some reassurance is needed from time to time.

 

Calling when you say you will is a way of showing that the relationship is important and a priority.

 

 

Now, in my mind, this leads to all sort of bad scenarios -- cheating, lying, more instances of him being drunk (I told him being drunk is not an excuse) and doing stuff that makes me upset. I'm creating disastrous situations in my mind... this is the depression taking hold of me -- negative upon negative thought.

 

This is the first time he's ever done something like this in our 2.5 months of being apart. Usually, he is very good at calling. He's very sorry, but I don't know how to get over the feeling of this being a very bag sign of things to come.

 

I can understand why you'd be worried. If a gf of mine was too drunk to remember calling me, what else is she going to forget while she is drunk? Is she forgetting that she has a LDR bf too? But in that case, the drinking would be my main issue, forgetting to call me would just be a result of getting drunk.

 

But your bf said he is sorry and it was the first time something like this has happened. Unless this becomes a pattern, I wouldn't worry about it that much. That kind of thinking will drive you nuts, especially in a LDR, where you need a lot of trust to make the relationship work.

 

 

I can't tell if I'm over-reacting or not. I need objective views. Help?

 

He screwed up and you over-reacted. Those things happen. It doesn't have to be the end of the world. And you guys seem to undertand that. You talked about it and you both apologized. That's good.

 

 

 

It really peeves me how insensitive most men are to mental issues (depression, etc.), but that's definitely been my experience as well. Human nature isn't fair. It pisses me off because I tend to be ultra sensitive to the issues of others if they're making an effort to change.

 

I think that is because most men have no idea what goes on in a woman's head. It's all very confusing.

 

That said, I do believe that many men are trying to be sensitive about their SO's issues (mental or otherwise),even if we ultimately fail.

 

 

Also, I really think that messing up and apologizing profusely can sometimes be even worse than messing up and not apologizing at all. Messing up/apologizing cycle just makes you seem very unstable. If you mess up and don't apologize, other person starts to think that maybe you were right to get pissed and they start to doubt themselves or even try to make it up to you. As someone who is very impulsive, not apologizing or rarely apologizing has worked MUCH better for me.

 

Interesting, this has been my experience as well. There are exceptions where an apology is necessary, but generally over-apologizing makes you seem weak and out of control to the other person. Very confident people apologize less often, even though they make mistakes like everybody does. Better to be strong in your convictions, even if they're the wrong convictions.

 

Interesting indeed. I have to say that I strongly disagree with you two. I'd much rather be with a woman who, when in doubt, (over-)apologizes for over-reacting instead of being a bitch about it. Being a bitch takes no courage or strength at all.

 

I am willing to try to work things out with a woman who sometimes (or even quite often) let's her issues/insecurities take over. As long as she acknowledges this and WE are working to make things better. I have issues too, and pretending they don't exist is stupid.

 

Better to be strong in your convictions, even if they're the wrong convictions

 

If you know your convictions are wrong, but refuse to say that you were wrong, that IMO is poison for a relationship.

 

When a woman takes an appraoch that essentially says "Right or wrong, I don't have to explain myself to you or apologize to you for this."; I am done.

[pandagirl]

Wow, you are using depression as an excuse for everything. Don't you have any pride? Even at my craziest, I have NEVER went beyond 2 attempts of unreplied contact in a row. It's more like one 99% of the time.

 

Even if he says that everything is fine, rest assured that this is a big black mark against you. Poor guy, he can't even have a free evening to have fun with his friends

 

Wow, you really like to judge, don't you?

 

Nowhere in my posts did I act entitled to my actions -- that was the whole point of posting on here, so I could get objective opinions. As the consensus has spoken, it seems that I did overreact, but that also he needs to be more mindful of using his phone in a LDR.

 

You asking me if I have any "pride" is like me asking you, "Are you a total idiot?"

[northstar1]

Wow, you are using depression as an excuse for everything. Don't you have any pride? Even at my craziest, I have NEVER went beyond 2 attempts of unreplied contact in a row. It's more like one 99% of the time.

 

Even if he says that everything is fine, rest assured that this is a big black mark against you. Poor guy, he can't even have a free evening to have fun with his friends

 

 

Also, I really think that messing up and apologizing profusely can sometimes be even worse than messing up and not apologizing at all. Messing up/apologizing cycle just makes you seem very unstable. If you mess up and don't apologize, other person starts to think that maybe you were right to get pissed and they start to doubt themselves or even try to make it up to you. As someone who is very impulsive, not apologizing or rarely apologizing has worked MUCH better for me.

 

This response is also an example of overreacting.

[sweetjasmine]

Very confident people apologize less often, even though they make mistakes like everybody does.

 

And that's what makes them gigantic a-holes.

 

I never trust people who are incapable of apologizing because it also means they're incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions and totally uninterested in fixing the negative consequences of those mistakes they won't ever admit to.

 

Better to be strong in your convictions, even if they're the wrong convictions.

 

Wow. No.

 

The inability to admit your own faults destroys relationships. It's remarkably foolish to hold on to something you KNOW is wrong because you don't want to seem weak. You can't fix something if you refuse to admit it's broken.

[carhill]

OK...

 

He apologized; you apologized. You're both aware of each other's circumstances (e.g. your depression and his medical and attention issues). Take that valuable information and build more intimacy with it. To me, these are steps along the attachment path. You're becoming attached to each other. It has its bumpy parts. How you handle those bumps will tell the story of your attachment (or separation).

 

Share with him what you would like to feel secure with this growing attachment. Ask for his input and suggestions. Have an open mind. 'What can we do together to move forward?'.

 

Be aware that, even if he is supportive of your battles with depression, that isn't carte blanche for him to become a tampon for depressive moods and behaviors. That's not fair nor equitable. Own that. Get the meds started ASAP. Like I said, work this as a team. You both have your parts. Good luck

[Kamille]

Isn't it sad when a relationship turns into a power-struggle instead of doing what makes the other person feel best, assuming he reciprocates?

 

Seriously eh? I don't see how holding your ground even when you realize you're wrong is a good long term relationship strategy.

 

Reciprocation is the key here. When both partners want to make things work, apologies do not diminish each partner's respect for the other.

 

I wouldn't want to be with someone who would think less of me because of an apology. Reeks of immaturity on their side.

[Kamille]

I was just thinking: I wonder if the difference in opinions about apologies stem from us imagining the "apologizing" process differently.

 

There is a difference between an apology where one takes responsibility for their action and an apology that's basically groveling for the other person's approval.

 

Instance one: I over-reacted and I apologize. I realize I could have communicated differently. Here is the point I was trying to make. (Happened to me with bf, see my last thread.).

 

Instance two: I'm so sorry I over-reacted, I am the pits, how can you possibly want to be with me, please don't leave me! (Or hold this against me).

 

I can see how apology two would leave someone uneasy, but feel that apology one only leaves room for growth.

[shadowplay]

People seem to be taking personal offense to those who are saying that it's generally better not to apologize for minor things.

 

It's not that I'm saying it's right, but this is just the reality I've observed many times. Human nature doesn't always conform to our moral ideals.

 

I'm also not saying that an apology is never warranted, just that there are many minor occasions where it's better to just let it drop without apologizing.

 

I think a lot of people with low confidence and/or control issues make the mistake of apologizing too often, and it doesn't have a positive effect on their relationships.

[sweetjasmine]

I think a lot of people with low confidence and/or control issues make the mistake of apologizing too often, and it doesn't have a positive effect on their relationships.

 

And I think a lot of people with low confidence and/or control issues make the mistake of never apologizing or not apologizing enough because admitting error is a blow to their fragile ego, and it doesn't have a positive effect on their relationships.

[threebyfate]

Everyone has moments of bad behaviour. It's if the behaviours are repetitive, displaying patterns, that cause people to step back.

 

pandagirl, shyte happens both to you and your b/f. It happens to all of us but in different ways. Now that you've apologized and resolved it, move on from it. There's really no need to get beat up or beat yourself up about it. Done is done.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I would much prefer to live in an idealistic world described by some LS posters. Unfortunetely, the reality is totally different. This is one of the major issues that I have with LS in general, the advice doesn't match the reality of darker aspects of human behaviour.

[Els]

To be very honest, LS has shown me some extremely dark and brutal sides of people and relationships that I've never, ever encountered IRL.

 

I do agree that people tend to idealize things a lot here. However, part of the idealizing is saying that what she did was very abnormal and a huge thing because nobody should ever call that many times. I think the reality is that many people have, at least once, called their partner a few more times than they should've, for whatever reason. It was a mistake, but just one of many that people tend to make, and a very forgiveable one.

 

Regardless, I don't think the OP apologized extravagantly or has been doing this repeatedly - yet.

[Kamille]

I'm not taking personal offense. I simply didn't agree with the premise that as a general rule it's best to not apologize when one makes a mistake.

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of people with low confidence and/or control issues make the mistake of apologizing too often, and it doesn't have a positive effect on their relationships.

 

That's true and I agree. Some people with low confidence might apologize not to take responsibility for their action, but because they fear abandonment. They don't apologize for their actions, they apologize for themselves. I've had friends and even ex-bfs like this and it can be exhausting because apologies are really just request for reassurance that I still like them.

 

 

 

And I think a lot of people with low confidence and/or control issues make the mistake of never apologizing or not apologizing enough because admitting error is a blow to their fragile ego, and it doesn't have a positive effect on their relationships.

 

And yet, I agree with this. Strangely enough, the scenarios that come to mind from real life involve the same people who apologize as a way to get emotional reassurance. They'll apologize for the most random stuff, but then when something really requires an apology, they'll get defensive.

 

I would much prefer to live in an idealistic world described by some LS posters. Unfortunetely, the reality is totally different. This is one of the major issues that I have with LS in general, the advice doesn't match the reality of darker aspects of human behaviour.

 

I do live in a world you might consider idealistic and I for one firmly believe one thing: we create and perpetuate our own reality.

 

The biggest red flag I see about the idea that one shouldn't apologize when one acts crazy is that, in the end, it's emotional manipulation - the kind of emotional manipulation that probably stems from low self-esteem and fear of abandonment.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I know that you do live in an idealistic world Kamille because you probably never had to deal with admiting to a guy that you have depressive episodes/panic attacks or other emotional issues and then watch that guy screw you over and hold it agianst it you.

[Kamille]

I know that you do live in an idealistic world Kamille because you probably never had to deal with admiting to a guy that you have depressive episodes/panic attacks or other emotional issues and then watch that guy screw you over and hold it agianst it you.

 

No that's true. But I have had guys hold very random stuff against me. All I can tell you is this: with hindsight, they weren't worth it and them holding stuff against me should have seen me heading out the door ASAP.

 

We all make mistakes and we all struggle to hard times in life (I have struggled with depression by the way, it simply never created anxiety attacks). First you must forgive and take responsibility for yourself. If the person you are with holds your moments of weakness against you, that's a strike against them, not you.