Could really use some guidance...

[Spiegelmann]

First things first: I'll try to keep this short. I'll probably fail, but at least I'll try Also, English isn't my first language, so sorry if that gets in the way.

 

There's this girl that I first met about 8 years ago in a poetry workshop. I wasn't interested in her "in that way", even though she was cute. We didn't even talk that much.

In the meantime, she left town and moved south. I left town too, moved north, got married, divorced, and moved back.

Not too long ago, she moved back too. Pure coincidence, of course.

 

I have a small poetry group with some friends of mine, and that's where I saw her again, as she was invited by one of them. We talked a lot, I made her laugh and ended up offering to take her home. On the way home she said that being back wasn't being easy for her, as she only knew a few people (my friend that invited her, another common friend, me and her sister), and that it was really good to see me again. She invited me to have lunch in her place.

 

Some probably useful information: she sometimes likes to invite people over for lunch/dinner, so that isn't necessarily a sign, I think.

 

A couple of days went by with no contact whatsoever. I sent her an e-mail with a few poems and she replied inviting me for lunch, which I accepted.

Lunch went great. We talked, laughed, etc. Sometimes we would just stop talking and kind of stare and smile at each other.

I told her that I was working on a poem for a public performance, and she offered to help.

We agreed that we would have lunch and/or dinner often.

We had coffee, I took her to her workplace and that was it. In the meantime I invited her to my birthday party next saturday (which was last weekend). I should add that she is quite reserved and doesn't go out much. She accepted.

 

I picked her up 5 minutes too late. Even so, she wasn't in any hurry whatsoever to leave, instead suggesting that we stay a while to talk about our poem, as she "hadn't work on it yet". Thing is, she had; she had sent me an e-mail the day before with some lines.

 

So we just sat for a little while talking about...everything and nothing, really. Then we left for the restaurant.

 

We sat together during dinner and, again, talked a lot. I tasted a bit of her meal and she tasted mine. And yes, we fed each other... You know, like what you see in the movies? Again, doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

I was able to convince her to join me and the others to a bar nearby. I remember her joking "you know, you're lucky I'm even here. normally I run from this kind of social events.", to which I replied: "so, is that a good sign?" She paused for a few seconds, looked me in the eyes and said "yes. yes, it is." Maybe I'm being pretentious, but this sounded like a clear sign of interest.

 

We spent most of the time together, talking with each other. A bit apart from the rest of the group, even. More often than not, and especially when I teased her, she just looked in my eyes, smiling and biting her lower lip. Another clue? Maybe...

 

We left the bar (everybody, not just the two of us). I asked her something, to which she replied something like "oh, that's one of the things that you find out as the friendship evolves". "Oh-oh!", I thought. "Getting friendzoned already?" I immediately replied: "you know, that's true for any kind of relationship." She stopped walking, turned back and stared at me in silence.

As a matter of fact, this happened a lot. The stopping and staring after saying something, I mean.

 

I took her home and that was it.

 

Since then (last sunday) until today, we've been talking through e-mail, mostly about our poem. In her latest e-mails she just sends her latest version of the poem and doesn't say anything else.

 

I realize I probably threw way too much information in this thread, but I'm really confused and could use some guidance.

 

There seem to be some pretty obvious signs that she might be interested. But then again, I may be getting the wrong picture and she's just being friendly.

 

I get mixed feelings about what I should or shouldn't do. On one hand, I feel as if I should have already tried to kiss her, but on the other hand she's quite shy and I don't want to scare her off and ruin everything.

Yeah, as you've probably guessed by now, I'm starting to really like her and don't want to mess up.

 

By the way, and this is probably irrelevant, but I'm 30 and she's 29.

 

Any tips, insight, etc. would be more than welcome.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Spiegelmann]

Update: I invited her to meet me at the city's park this Sunday to finish the poem (the reading will take place next Tuesday). She had told me a couple of days ago, after I commented with a friend of mine about having played basketball there, that she hadn't been to the park for a long time.

Also, it's a big, natural, kind of wild park (outside of the sports area, of course), which makes it romantic. Being a unlikely place to write poetry (despite the romantic aspect about it), her accepting the invitation (or not) would probably give me a clear idea about where she's at.

 

She replied she'll spend the weekend at her hometown. She also said that I should continue to shape the poem on my own, that it was mine.

Well, in a way, the poem is mine, I'm the one who has to have it ready for next Tuesday; she wasn't involved in the first place, she just offered to help.

The thing is, the poem was written by both of us in equal parts.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm trying too hard to read between the lines. But it seems like she's holding a "no chance" sign...

 

Anyway, I texted her, and basically said the truth: that my invitation to the park had the sole purpose of seeing her.

 

This was last night, 10.30 p.m.. It's morning (although really early, especially considering it's Saturday) and no reply; which, truth be told, is the worst kind of reply, I think.

This being so, I guess it is a negative, then.

 

At least I can try and take the positive out of this situation: I screwed up, time and time again (nothing new here).

Next time I'll have to keep my eyes open and actually do something instead of being a coward/jackass and doing nothing.

 

About the texting instead of calling thing: it was kind of late, and I didn't want to postpone it.

Besides, we both favour written text (sms or e-mail) to communicate when we're not together, as we tend to include some kind of poetry in said text.

 

But then again, maybe I should have called, at least just this once.

Well... talk about adding insult to injury, heh?

[Ms. Anne Thrope]

Hi Spiegelmann - hmmm - this one is hard to read. It sounded like she was definitely giving you some signals there. You've got to remember, dates (and all interactions between people of course) they aren't static, are they? They are on-going so...... what starts out one way, can end on a different note, you know? Maybe she was digging you at the beginning of the date and then by the end of the evening, she wasn't as into you anymore? It's happened to me (both sides of the equation). Plus I think you did just fine with what you said to her. I don't think you were too reserved. I HATE it when a guy thinks he has to kiss me just because we've gone on a date. If I'm not feeling it, there is NOTHING more awkward. Don't beat yourself up..... if she DOES like you, you gave her plenty of signals to lead her to you........

 

- J -

[Spiegelmann]

Hi, Anne,

 

Thanks for replying. We didn't go out on a date yet, though; the last time we were together was at my birthday dinner/party.

 

Something else happened after my latest update. To my surprise, she sent me an e-mail saying that she was sorry she couldn't meet me at the park, but that she wanted to see me at the reading. She also invited me for dinner at a canteen (canteens are the only place to eat in that area, because it's in the university area) on that same day, nearby the event's location.

 

I accepted the invitation, of course. However, I told her that the dinner would have to take place a bit early, as I'll have a rehearsal before the reading. She said there was no problem, and she'd just do extra time until dinner time. She leaves work at 5 p.m., so it means she'll have to find a way to kill 2h30m until we meet... Seeing as she isn't the most social woman in the world and usually shies away from social events, this "sacrifice" might be an interesting detail.

 

So, while it doesn't mean anything good, at least it isn't bad, either. And considering the circumstances (read: my series of mess-ups), I guess it's more than I expected at this point.

 

Will continue to update as events unfold and until a conclusion is drawn. As long as you people want to know, of course

[Peaceful Guy]

Any tips, insight, etc. would be more than welcome.

 

well, it sounded pretty romantic. have fun!

[Spiegelmann]

Peaceful Guy, I guess you're right, in a way. The whole "feeding each other" thing, staring into each other's eyes, and what not... those could be seen as being romantic, I guess.

It was probably stuff like that that lead some friends of mine to say that she liked me. But then again, they could just be trying to encourage me, as I've been single for more than a year and they'd certainly like to see me with someone.

 

I guess I'll just have to wait a bit more and see how things how things evolve (if at all) next Wednesday. That's when the reading will take place and we'll have dinner together, by the way.

[Peaceful Guy]

Peaceful Guy, I guess you're right, in a way. The whole "feeding each other" thing, staring into each other's eyes, and what not... those could be seen as being romantic, I guess.

It was probably stuff like that that lead some friends of mine to say that she liked me. But then again, they could just be trying to encourage me, as I've been single for more than a year and they'd certainly like to see me with someone.

 

I guess I'll just have to wait a bit more and see how things how things evolve (if at all) next Wednesday. That's when the reading will take place and we'll have dinner together, by the way.

 

well, it sounded a lot like a date.. if you enjoy spending time together and it sounds like you do.. and your attracted to each other.. sounds like dating to me.. gotta take the victories when you can.. or am i wrong here? i mean, unless you know ahead of time that one of you is in a relationship or not attracted to the sex that you are.. i guess it could just be friends hanging out.. never seen that one though! seriously, have fun man, you earned it!!

[Spiegelmann]

well, it sounded a lot like a date.. if you enjoy spending time together and it sounds like you do.. and your attracted to each other.. sounds like dating to me.. gotta take the victories when you can.. or am i wrong here? i mean, unless you know ahead of time that one of you is in a relationship or not attracted to the sex that you are.. i guess it could just be friends hanging out.. never seen that one though! seriously, have fun man, you earned it!!

 

Well, she does seem to enjoy spending time with me. Otherwise she wouldn't invite me. But that enjoyment could come from the perspective of a friend...

 

The issue here is exactly whether or not she might be attracted to me. I am attracted to her, no doubts there!

 

The thing is, she moved back recently. Relatively speaking, at least. She doesn't know a lot of people here, and she could be seeing me as the only person with some things in common (the same main hobby, we kind of think the same way, etc.). Which is all good, and necessary to build a relationship, but it's not enough.

 

Anyway, my mind is set: I've got nothing to lose, so I'm asking her out next Wednesday and invite her to dinner this week. I'll leave it as clear as possible that it's meant to be a date. Her reply will basically be the solution to this whole "dilemma", I think.

[Peaceful Guy]

Her reply will basically be the solution to this whole "dilemma"..

 

well, i think that's very mature (and smart) of you! good thinking!

 

..I think.

 

[Spiegelmann]

So, here's the update:

 

We had dinner yesterday. Considering it took place at a canteen and a couple of common friends joined us, it wasn't the most intimate of dinners.

 

She watched the reading (curiously enough, she sat alone, and didn't sat next to my friends, most of which are common friends).

When it ended I obviously took her home. She gave me a poetry book, and said it was meant to be an inspiration for us to keep writing together. She bought the same book to herself. I found this gesture cute, to say the least.

 

She admitted that she'd sit in front of the computer at night waiting for a poem of mine by e-mail and was disappointed when she didn't get it. I know, this can mean anything.

 

On the way to her place she invited me for lunch at her place again, and, again, I accepted. I invited her for dinner next Friday, but she'll be out of town to visit her family. So I suggested today. She smiled and joked, "why the rush? why not next week?", to which I replied, also smiling and joking: "why postpone it?" She accepted immediately.

 

So, we went for dinner today. There was no closure, but, then again, I guess I wasn't expecting that.

Interestingly enough, during the evening she referred to our going out as a "date"... well, using the closest word in our language, that is It kind of slipped out, and the subject of the conversation changed.

 

During and after dinner we'd briefly touch each other's hands, or touch the arm. Again: it can mean anything, I know.

 

We did, however, talk enough for me to have some sort of insight. As I had been suspecting, she has quite a lot of emotional "baggage". There are hints of a failed relationship that left deep scars on her. No feelings for the guy, but the scars are still there. That and the fact that the vast majority of her time is spent working... and she takes antidepressants. Yeah, not pretty.

 

We are having lunch next week, and we almost kissed. I know... "almost"? Sounds ridiculous. When we said goodbye and went to give a kiss on the cheek, I put my hand on her neck and touching her face - you know, the "I-want-to-kiss-you" position - and the kiss wasn't entirely on the cheek, the corners of the mouth touched. She got quite nervous and started talking like there was no tomorrow.

 

So, bottomline: there seems to be something there, and it looks like she likes me. But I'll have to take things a bit slow, and take my time.

 

Any opinions will be, as always, quite welcome.

[Spiegelmann]

Update:

 

Back to my latest post, when we went out for dinner.

Afterwards I sent her a poem by e-mail. Nothing new there, as it's something we both do quite often. However, I made it clear that she was the inspiration for the poem.

Two days later, she replied saying that it was a beautiful poem, but talented people like me didn't need particular inspiration, and added a smilie. Yeah, I know... ouch.

 

The weekend went by. Seeing as she had bought a poetry book for both of us as a means to get us both to write, I did just that about a week ago; wrote a poem and e-mailed it.

She replied she was having a busy week on the account of her having to unexpectedly prepare a class, and couldn't even find the time to write poetry. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. I acted accordingly and left her be for the rest of the week. Her invitation that she had made for lunch that week? Nowhere in sight anymore. Could be due to the extra work. Maybe, maybe not.

 

Anyway, last Saturday she sent me a poem, and a quite personal one, I might add.

 

Since I'm finding it hard to stop thinking about her, I texted her yesterday and said that I'd like to be with her sometime this week. She replied 30 secs later... literally; and we're talking about someone that usually takes hours to reply, and invited me for dinner at her place today.

 

Well... whatever this means, it's not bad

[Oceanblue47]

Sounds to me like she likes you quite a bit, there were a number of signs in your message

 

1/ I think you are both shy people and each is waiting for the other to make the first move

2/ you have been out for lunch / dinner a couple of times, if she was not that interested she would not bother

3/ sharing food is a sign of intimacy

4/ So is touching

5/ she says that she waits by her lap top waiting for your poem and is let down when it does not arrive (this means she is wanting you to contact her)

6/ you gave her a peck on the mouth/cheek and then talked her head off, thats because her head went into a spin (head over heels)

7/ Most importantly, I see her signals as very positive, you seem to read negatives out of positives

8/ In summary She likes you, You like her, you need to be more outgoing and more positive, I am confident this is going in the right direction

[Oceanblue47]

Sorry, missed the last point, she texted you back in 30 secs, (Not a negative thing) you say and she invited you over to dinner

 

Read between the lines, 30 seconds, and that includes typing the text, she was obviously waiting for you to contact her and could not wait to respond

[Spiegelmann]

Ocean, thanks for your replies.

I guess you're right, and pretty much hit the nail on the head in every single point.

I'm trying hard not to be too optimistic to avoid any potential disappointment, but the signs really are there, I think.

 

Yet another update: had dinner at her place yesterday. Had a great time.

 

We went to a nice bar, and ended up switching our drinks... and drinking from each other's straw.

 

We'll be taking dance lessons together. She told me specifically that she refuses to dance with anyone but me.

 

She mentioned (again) that she tends to shy away from social events, but for some reason finds it difficult to tell me "no" when I invite her.

 

We brought up the subject of the poem I wrote for her (the one about which she'd said that I didn't need particular inspiration for), and I said that it really was her poem, as it was for her and about her. With that said, she had a tear in the corner of her eye.

 

We touched hands a lot, and ended up holding hands.

 

All in all, I think it's going slowly but steady

 

Needless to say, more opinions will always be welcome.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Spiegelmann

[Peaceful Guy]

Needless to say, more opinions will always be welcome.

 

less typey mo kissy! :) congrats man!!! woot!

[Spiegelmann]

less typey mo kissy! :) congrats man!!! woot!

 

LOL!

 

Thanks, Peaceful Guy. But I guess it's a bit early for congratulations

[Spiegelmann]

Another update. Really need your insight here, people.

 

We went to our first ballroom dances lesson yesterday. Picked up my godson, as the "kid" (18 years old) is already a student (and sometimes teacher) at that academy and would introduce us to the teacher. Also, his presence would help us to feel more at ease (let me remind you that we're both quite shy).

 

The thing is, it had little to do with ballrrom dances (tango, salsa, etc.). It was all about african and latin dances. Not good, since we're not comfortable with that kind of dance at all. Some tension started to build up.

 

We were always switching partners. As expected, I suppose. The thing is, and adding insult to injury, two of the guys that were there were douchebags. One of them was always criticizing her for her bad moves (even though he couldn't dance, either) and the other one was blatantly hitting on her.

 

Needless to say, we ended up leaving the class early.

 

She got quite nervous and tense with the whole situation. Still, we agreed to try another dance school next Monday and have dinner before the lesson.

 

I gave her a late birthday present (her birthday was about two weeks before we got closer). She had commented last Tuesday that she'd love to have a "real" hourglass, made of wood and with sand, so that's what I got her. She loved it and said she'd put it on a special place.

 

We both joked about the night and tried to take it lightly, and said that it'd probably take a couple of hours until we fell asleep. I said I'd probably reach her by e-mail or text message. Actually, I did both. I texted her when I got home, saying that even if the night didn't live up to our expectations, it was still great because I got to spend time with her. I then e-mailed her two poems. The poems are about her, and I think she can easily figure that out.

 

When we said goodbye she said that despite the dance lesson fiasco, she had enjoyed spending the night with me.

 

The text and the e-mails were sent at 1 p.m. last night; it's now 11 a.m. and there's still no kind of reply.

 

Adding to this the fact that the positive signs that I'd seen before seemed to get somewhat colder, I'm not the most optimistic guy in the world right now.

I feel as if things had taken two steps forward before, but last night took ten steps back...

The "coldness" of her signs could be due to her being tense and nervous, though.

 

As I said, I could really use your opinions right now. Thanks in advance.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Spiegelmann

[Spiegelmann]

OK, I'm pretty much going out of my mind...

 

Remember that we were supposed to try another dance school? Yeah, that'd be today. The lesson's probably taking place right now, as I write this post.

She texted me this morning apologizing that she just didn't feel like going out today and would spend the entire day at home (she can work from home) with her sister.

 

I know for a fact that she pretty much runs from social events, and when she's invited by someone other than me she'll sometimes not reply or tries to be polite and makes up a "politically correct" excuse (I know, the truth is always the better option). Well, she was brutally honest with me, then.

 

Also, last Tuesday she'd commented that she sometimes feels a bit melancholic and, believing she'll be a boring company, prefers to stay home.

 

What's going on here? Did she lose interest all of a sudden?

Is she still hurting from her past relationship and is afraid of being hurt again, and her flaking out today is a sign that she's nervous that things might go somewhere between us?

 

Mixed signals are buzzing like crazy. On one hand there seem to be some encouraging signs, but this flaking out messed me up badly.

 

Could really use some insight, here. Thanks.

[Spiegelmann]

Something I forgot to mention before, and may be relevant: when I dropped her at her place last Thursday and while we were making arrangements for yesterday, I said that we'd have to have dinner earlier, to which she replied that wouldn't be a problem, and any time would be fine. In that same instant, she suggested we should have dinner at her place some time this week.

Makes it somewhat obvious that, if nothing less, she enjoys spending time with me. Sure enough, right now this leaves me even more confused.

 

I'm thinking of just letting her be today. No texting, no e-mails, no calls - nothing.

If there's no contact from her, I'll call her tomorrow and ask her out again. If she accepts, we'll see how it goes. If she rejects, well, at least I guess I'll have my definite answer.

[Spiegelmann]

Can someone please close this thread?

 

I think I have closure, now. If she was ever interested, she isn't anymore. Didn't reply to my text message last Monday, and didn't answer my call 3 hours ago. Needless to say, she didn't even reply with a text message.

 

So, again, can this thread be closed, please?

 

Thanks to everyone who tried to help.

[Spiegelmann]

Something happened, so here I am posting.

Not sure what to make of it, so I'll need your help.

 

We went out last week and this week.

Last week went great. Ended up holding hands in my car. I gave her a flower and she "melted". She held tight to it and said that she'd keep it close to her bed. She kissed my hand and said that I made the whole difference.

 

Went out last Wednesday, had a great time. Took a 40 miles trip to take her to see the sea at night. We walked around the beach at night, by the sea.

Yesterday was a holiday. I had a performance (I'm in a choir) during the evening and invited her. She accepted. She would normally travel to her town to visit her family, but she didn't, just to see me. Can mean anything, I know.

 

After the show we went for a drink. We were talking about my marriage and my ex-wife (something she's been taking an interest to), and she said it was weird that I never wrote a poem (let me remind you, I'm a poet) for my wife. I told her (as I had done before) that it was true, I never wrote a poem for my wife; I had, however, wrote several poems for her, to which she replied that I should pick another subject for my poems, as I deserved better.

 

And here is where things get really confusing. As she's saying that she tends to run from everybody that's interested in her, we're sitting down, holding hands, and our faces are very, very close. And we're smiling the whole time. She says that she's a "rose with too many thorns", I say I don't mind the sting. She says I'm not seeing her as she really is, I reply that I'm not putting her on a pedestal, that I know she's far from perfect... She got tears in her eyes. You can picture the rest.

 

I took her home, and we stood in my car around 15 minutes. We were either holding hands, or I was with one hand on her knee and the other hand caressing her neck... which she didn't mind at all. During all this, I asked her that she didn't run away from me, to which she replied that she couldn't promise that. And if she did run, it would be a gradual thing.

At one point, she replied to something I said, grabbed my neck, pulled me, and our foreheads and noses touched. We stared at each other for a second, then went back to "normal".The conversation ended with her saying that I'm a beautiful man, both on the outside and on the inside.

 

As I was driving her home, she kept talking that we should plan going out again next week, have dinner together, go see a play, etc.

 

This is really confusing. She says one thing, but her actions say something totally different.

 

The way I see it, she likes me, but is afraid and/or undecided about starting a relationship.

 

Any tips, opinions, etc. will be more than welcome.

[Spiegelmann]

OK, she's definitely not running away.

 

I sent her a relatively basic, neutral poem last Saturday. She sent me a very personal, direct poem - not like her style of poetry at all. Her poem pretty much means "these are the small things I like; this is me."

 

Sent her an e-mail today with a poem (kind of a reply to hers; about the things I want, what I can do to make her happy and the beginning of anything is always uncertain) and invited her for dinner tomorrow.

 

She replied with a text and accepted the invitation. So yeah, this is not "running away" in my book.

 

I made up my mind that I'm going to try and kiss her tomorrow. I know, it isn't something you plan, but it's just that I feel like I had a lot of chances to do so and let them go to waste.

I know what her favourite song is; I know what her favourite flower is; if the combination of those two doesn't work, heck, I might as well become a monk

 

Will update tomorrow.

 

Wish me luck!