Maybe porn really does more harm than good for men?

[Taramere]

Its not harmless but it isn't going away either. What's the best course of action to something that's always going to be around.....

 

Regulate it in the way that other industries are regulated. That means providing a safe place of work...so that a woman going to her place of work is not an irresponsible action on her part in the way that going to a cash machine in a rough area late at night might be regarded as an irresponsible action. If you accept that this industry is here to stay and is going to keep increasing in accordance with demand at the rate it's currently going at, then I think you have to accept that at some point the porn industry will be a bigger employer of women than any other industry. To argue that women in that industry are being feckless and should expect to be abused in the course of their work doesn't cut it.

 

Why should one (enormous) industry be exempt from the legal principles that apply to other industries? Why should employers in the porn industry not be deemed to have a duty of care towards their employees in the manner that employers in any other industry have?

 

Because porn deals with sex, it's popular to adopt the libertarian argument in response to any criticisms of the way that industry operates. People don't want to regulate it or interfere, because that would be like regulating sex and interfering in people's private lives. Porn, however, is a profit making enterprise, which shouldn't be entitled to special treatment insofar as being regulated and requiring employers to have a duty of care towards their employees goes. Regulation would mean, for instance, that it's not permissible to require employees to have sex with eachother without using condoms. The risk to their health being too great. Breach that regulation and you incur major health and safety fines. The possibility of an action against you by your employee.

 

Again, people don't want this because it complicates everything too much, It's sex, and you can't or shouldn't regulate sex. If that's the case then fine. That tells us that it's not possible to make a lawful business out of sex...and if it can't operate lawfully, then it shouldn't be operating at all. Those who continue in it regardless can expect to face the usual penalties for carrying on a business unlawfully. Otherwise, if people who act as employers in the porn industry regard themselves as being part of a valid business enterprise, then they should really be prepared to shoulder the duties and responsibilities that are borne by employers in any other business enterprise.

 

Oh - re your question about whether I'd help the bum on the street. Yes. Not every single time I see a bum in the street (otherwise I'd never stop)....but I am indeed that do-gooder you've seen sitting talking to a person in that situation and suggesting avenues of help for them. Most people will, I think, take on that helping role at some point...depending on whether or not a particular person's plight strikes a chord with them.

 

I've worked in professions that are all about providing help to people who are struggling, so my concerns really aren't restricted to people who work in the sex industry. I've had the odd client who worked as a prostitute, but that would make up a tiny minority of the people I've worked with. I'm focusing on workers in the sex industry, in this context, because it's a thread about porn.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Taramere

[Bejita463]

Okay...I apologise for the suggestion that you were condoning rape. I appreciate why that would feel like a personal attack, but it's really more a case of me going off on a train of thought about what may or may not be regarded as mitigating circumstances in a criminal action.

 

We're cool.

 

OT...the situation with your foot. Did the employer not want you to wear the boot because they felt it would slow up productivity in some way? A friend of mine used to deal with offshore safety issues, and would often be at loggerheads with gaffers who wanted to bypass certain safety procedures to increase productivity (and their own bonuses).

 

Were you injured at all in the accident? If you hadn't been wearing those boots, you could prove that the employer told you not to and you lost your foot as a result of the accident...you'd be warmly welcomed in any law firm in the land, I'm sure. I can't see how there would be a possibility of contributory negligence on your part in that situation.

It was when I was in the Air Force, and I wore combat boots anyway. The only difference was one of my sets had steel toes, and the pair they issued me did not. I never did get a clear answer about why they even cared what kind of boots I was wearing, so long as they looked right.

 

As for the event itself, there was no injury. I actually wasn't the first to even notice it. If I was, I would have just filled the gash with wax and buffed it over and no one would ever be wiser. I DID do that later, in fact. I forget who even noticed, but it got back to the fellows that told me not to have them. I was told verbally though, so even if I had been injured it would have strictly been my word against theirs.

 

That wasn't even the only time I was needlessly put at risk there; they almost killed me with handling pneumonia wrong. There are programs in place to prevent that kind of foolishness, but it was not my personal experience that they worked.

 

With porn...because the industry is expanding all the time, I think at some point society will have to recognise it as an industry like any other. The more it expands, the more it will be filled with workers who are just ordinary people..and I think as that starts to happen, people will develop more concern about what happens to those ordinary people in the course of their employment. I think of certain parts of South East Asia where the sex industry is the only feasible option for many women, workwise. 18th Century London when, despite the prevailing prudery, a huge percentage of the female inhabitants worked as prostitutes.

I thought it was already considered an industry in the States. I could see how legal aid might be blurred regarding it though. Occupational safety and proper treatment of workers as a whole could use an overhaul.

 

From the female perspective, this - the oldest profession - is the profession that women have made great strides in escaping over the past couple of hundred years. Now we have this colossal industry becoming an ever bigger employer of women. Its even got tame feminists and intellectuals who insist that this is an empowering choice for women. That it's all in the mind really. If a woman feels degraded when 20 men ejaculate and urinate on her, then she is degraded....but all it takes is a mental switch for that women to feel empowered by such a situation. Buy into the "in BDSM its the sub who has the most power" stuff.

 

It just seems ridiculous to me.

Not being a feminist, I cannot be sure I speak about what they mean accurately, but I do not believe that kind of scene is what they are referring to when they speak about empowerment.

 

Though, if it is actual bondage and not rape, the sub IS the one who has the power. They are the ones who determine what can and can not happen, with the mere utterance of a word. That is part of what makes it sexy.

(Not referring to porn at all with that last part. Just a general statement.)

Edited May 8, 2010 by Bejita463
Sentence structure. So bad. So very bad.

[Taramere]

It was when I was in the Air Force, and I wore combat boots anyway. The only difference was one of my sets had steel toes, and the pair they issued me did not. I never did get a clear answer about why they even cared what kind of boots I was wearing, so long as they looked right.

 

As for the event itself, there was no injury. I actually wasn't the first to even notice it. If I was, I would have just filled the gash with wax and buffed it over and no one would ever be wiser. I DID do that later, in fact. I forget who even noticed, but it got back to the fellows that told me not to have them. I was told verbally though, so even if I had been injured it would have strictly been my word against theirs.

 

That wasn't even the only time I was needlessly put at risk there; they almost killed me with handling pneumonia wrong. There are programs in place to prevent that kind of foolishness, but it was not my personal experience that they worked.

 

I thought it was already considered an industry in the States. I could see how legal aid might be blurred regarding it though. Occupational safety and proper treatment of workers as a whole could use an overhaul.

 

Right. I guess I can't really comment, because I'm based in the UK. Inclusion in the EU means endless compliance with various regulations and directives. I used to work in defender reparation (hence my interest in your situation). Mulling over the Provision and use of work equipment regulations was part of my daily routine. Of course companies hate this kind of thing because it causes them so many headaches...but the reputable companies will do their best to comply.

 

Not being a feminist, I cannot be sure I speak about what they mean accurately, but I do not believe that kind of scene is what they are referring to when they speak about empowerment.

 

No, I think there's a very valid pro-sex approach which says "look...women enjoy sex. Sex isn't something that makes victims out of us. Some women work in the sex industry because they enjoy it. Perhaps it's an industry where they've made a lot of friends, have attained some level of status - and have a lot of sex which they enjoy."

 

It's the kind of girl power line tends to be passed down the food chain. "If I say I'm enjoying my stint in porn then I'm a winner just like she is. I'll be empowered too." Some may be genuinely empowered. Others might fake a sense of empowerment in order to avoid feeling like losers. Only the people involved, taking a very honest look at themselves can know the real truth of the matter.

 

Though, if it is actual bondage and not rape, the sub IS the one who has the power. They are the ones who determine what can and can not happen, with the mere utterance of a word. That is part of what makes it sexy.

(Not referring to porn at all with that last part. Just a general statement.)

 

I'm not disputing that people enjoy on both sides enjoy it, but to me the person wielding the source of pain is the one who carries most power. The use of a safe phrase is a mechanism employed to prevent abuse of that power/things getting out of control.

 

Power is such a complex notion. We've talked about victims and persecutors on this thread...and it's often said (by psychologists) that the victim is the most powerful role in any drama triangle. AO mentioned in his post

 

Blaming the victim has a bigger, badder cousin called playing the victim.

 

I could probably analyse the porn industry forever, with reference to the whole victim/persecutor/rescuer dynamic. Max Hardcore is a particularly interesting (if repulsive) point of reference in that respect, as he is one of the more abusive producers. Now that he's in prison, he's playing the victim role to perfection...complaining about slave labour and getting paid 12 cents an hour in his prison job.

 

He's also played the rescuer role by continually promoting himself as a First Amendment saviour and hero. That's by the by, and I'm totally off topic by now...but with reference to the power dynamics at play in the sex industry, his personal drama has been a particularly interesting one to watch as it unfolds.

[A O]

Regulate it in the way that other industries are regulated. That means providing a safe place of work...so that a woman going to her place of work is not an irresponsible action on her part in the way that going to a cash machine in a rough area late at night might be regarded as an irresponsible action.

Its all about choice, whether it be choosing to do a particular job, choosing to be in a particular place or choosing to do a particular thing. As long as we choose to do anyone of these things and as long as we know the consequences that surrounds these choices, then the onus for our own welfare is still on us.

 

To argue that women in that industry are being feckless and should expect to be abused in the course of their work doesn't cut it.

I expect people to be able to, or otherwise learn to, stand up for themselves. That's the better course of action in situations like this than simply playing victim.

 

Why should one (enormous) industry be exempt from the legal principles that apply to other industries? Why should employers in the porn industry not be deemed to have a duty of care towards their employees in the manner that employers in any other industry have?

Indeed. Why is that? Its the impression I get from some posters here - that the porn industry is somehow outside the realms of normal justice. How is that possible?

 

Because porn deals with sex, it's popular to adopt the libertarian argument in response to any criticisms of the way that industry operates.

Yes, but you opened the door when talking about human nature and rationalizing not protecting the lame.

 

People don't want to regulate it or interfere, because that would be like regulating sex and interfering in people's private lives.

Either you or Jasmine mentioned awareness. I think that's prudent and that's whats more at play here than the above.

 

Porn, however, is a profit making enterprise, which shouldn't be entitled to special treatment insofar as being regulated and requiring employers to have a duty of care towards their employees goes. Regulation would mean, for instance, that it's not permissible to require employees to have sex with each other without using condoms.

Just get it done. In a world where forecourt attendants do pretty much everything but pour petrol and attend to vehicles because of occupational health concerns, then so too can the sex industry change its ways.

 

Again, people don't want this because it complicates everything too much, It's sex, and you can't or shouldn't regulate sex.

Prostitution is legal in my country, and its this way, pretty much for the reasons I've been espousing about porn. Its never going to go away so the best course of action for those involved was to regulate it.

 

Oh - re your question about whether I'd help the bum on the street. Yes. Not every single time I see a bum in the street (otherwise I'd never stop)....but I am indeed that do-gooder you've seen sitting talking to a person in that situation and suggesting avenues of help for them.

Hats off

 

I've worked in professions that are all about providing help to people who are struggling, so my concerns really aren't restricted to people who work in the sex industry.

I see. So, you're not really representative of your average jo, as far as do-gooderness is concerned. still - respect.

 

 

.

[Bejita463]

Right. I guess I can't really comment, because I'm based in the UK. Inclusion in the EU means endless compliance with various regulations and directives. I used to work in defender reparation (hence my interest in your situation). Mulling over the Provision and use of work equipment regulations was part of my daily routine. Of course companies hate this kind of thing because it causes them so many headaches...but the reputable companies will do their best to comply.

 

The military is a little unique in that regard. Who's word has more clout, the low ranking enlisted man or the colonel? Considering the people who deal with military issues tend to wear the same uniforms as those they are ruling over, the one with the higher rank tends to be given the benefit of the doubt in situations where it is word against word.

 

I can guarantee if whatever tried to slice through my boot had done so due to my not having steel toes, the story would have changed to "I never said that" and I would have had no way to dispute it. Even when I was scolded, it was verbally, so that I had no proof it had ever happened.

 

A clever bully can run riot in the military, and trample people pretty hard if he wants to. All he has to do is know how the system works and make sure he doesn't give anyone any ammo. You don't need to be bulletproof when the guy you are standing on has no bullets.

 

That is my take on that particular situation.

 

 

 

No, I think there's a very valid pro-sex approach which says "look...women enjoy sex. Sex isn't something that makes victims out of us. Some women work in the sex industry because they enjoy it. Perhaps it's an industry where they've made a lot of friends, have attained some level of status - and have a lot of sex which they enjoy."

 

It's the kind of girl power line tends to be passed down the food chain. "If I say I'm enjoying my stint in porn then I'm a winner just like she is. I'll be empowered too." Some may be genuinely empowered. Others might fake a sense of empowerment in order to avoid feeling like losers. Only the people involved, taking a very honest look at themselves can know the real truth of the matter.

I don't really have any comment here, but that is more in line with the rationale I thought was being employed.

 

I'm not disputing that people enjoy on both sides enjoy it, but to me the person wielding the source of pain is the one who carries most power. The use of a safe phrase is a mechanism employed to prevent abuse of that power/things getting out of control.

Yes and no. It depends on what you are determining as power. If it is consensual, then the sub can utter that word at any time. This leads to the logical conclusion that anything occurring to the sub is directly because they wish for it to, not because the dom does.

 

Power is such a complex notion. We've talked about victims and persecutors on this thread...and it's often said (by psychologists) that the victim is the most powerful role in any drama triangle.

I find this wording a little confusing. Did you mean victim, or sub? Just asking for clarification, because I am not seeing how a victim has the most powerful role. This is taking the view of a victim as someone who is not in a consensual environment though.

 

I could probably analyse the porn industry forever, with reference to the whole victim/persecutor/rescuer dynamic. Max Hardcore is a particularly interesting (if repulsive) point of reference in that respect, as he is one of the more abusive producers. Now that he's in prison, he's playing the victim role to perfection...complaining about slave labour and getting paid 12 cents an hour in his prison job.

 

He's also played the rescuer role by continually promoting himself as a First Amendment saviour and hero. That's by the by, and I'm totally off topic by now...but with reference to the power dynamics at play in the sex industry, his personal drama has been a particularly interesting one to watch as it unfolds.

Wait. Wait, wait, wait. Wait. Prisoners get paid? Why? How are they entitled to that? They are in prison to be punished, how is giving them pay, even bad pay, even considered? I don't get that at all.

 

The plus side regarding that Max fellow, is that by now he's gotten to see firsthand what being forcibly violated feels like.

 

(and this thread has been off topic for a long while now.)

[Taramere]

Just get it done. In a world where forecourt attendants do pretty much everything but pour petrol and attend to vehicles because of occupational health concerns, then so too can the sex industry change its ways.

 

I need to get off this pc for the rest of the day...but I just had to add a final bit with regard to regulation. This article indicates that serious consideration is being given to regulating the industry to include mandatory use of condoms. Probably the whole porn regulation thing merits a thread of its own in the current events section.

 

I find this wording a little confusing. Did you mean victim, or sub? Just asking for clarification, because I am not seeing how a victim has the most powerful role.

 

I wasn't really linking being a sub with being a victim...except I suppose in terms that on the face of it both seem to be in the more passive role.

 

Re the victim having a powerful role...in terms of drama dynamics, psychologists sometimes seem to regard it in this way because of the extent to which the victim is perceived as subtly manipulating others. "Look what you made me do" (pushing another person into the role of persecutor) or "look what he/she made me do" (appealing to a third party to adopt the role of rescuer). It's seen as powerful because, I suppose, it's difficult to confront someone who's doing that without seeming overly cynical or persecuting.

 

It presents people with a dilemma. We don't want to be manipulated by a victim, but at the same time we don't want to let a vitriolic persecutor think that he/she can do whatever they want with impunity. The documentary crew I mentioned...that's what they were faced with. They were supposed to be there as flies on the wall, impartially recording events as they unfolded. As it transpired, they found themselves in a position where they could no longer play neutral observer/bystander. They had to step into a rescuing role.

 

I think that's what porn is geared towards. It's designed to shock, upset and stimulate. Push people towards a particular role where they might feel traumatised by a simulated rape scene in porn (identifying with the "victim") or turned on (identifying with the "rapist" and getting a sense of vicarious power). Or maybe a combination of the two...which might result in them either gravitating towards the rescuer role to assuage their own guilt, or gravitating towards the persecutor role, if the rescuer role makes them feel too lily-livered, on the losing side etc.

 

It's a tremendously difficult issue to remain detached from. I know I can't detach from it, and tend very much towards the rescuer role. I don't think it's the intention of porn that we remain detached from the drama it generates. We're supposed to be shocked by it, or turned on, or traumatised. Whichever one it is, we're being manipulated.

 

In that sense, returning to the original topic of the post, I do think that porn tends to do more harm than good. I suppose that if someone needs to masturbate, then it's useful material to help them do that.

 

Beyond that purpose, I'm not sure what benefits it brings to society generally. It consumes so much of people's spare cash, which means that other forms of art (artforms requiring far more in the way of talent, hard work and dedication than the porn industry requires) suffer in consequence.

[Els]

I skipped it the first time around because it's totally irrelevant.

 

I originally brought up the crappy conditions of the porn industry work environment because another poster claimed that women do porn because it's FUN and they LOVE THE ATTENTION. You would have a point if I claimed that 10 year olds work in sweatshops for a quarter a day because they think it's fun.

 

But if you're really curious, yes, I try to buy fair trade whenever I can and I avoid stores like WalMart, but no matter how hard I try, I'm absolutely certain I've bought products which were made by exploited workers, whether they're children or adults or illegal immigrants in the US making below minimum wage because most companies don't have honest labels on their products. "Made in USA" hardly ever means actually made in the US. I can't even buy local produce at the store without interacting with illegal immigrants making $3/hr. picking produce and putting it on the shelves.

 

The thing is that when I buy a bell pepper from the store that was picked by an illegal immigrant or a pair of jeans that was put together by a 10 year old in the Third World, I'm not seeking out a video of the actual act of exploitation, getting sexually aroused by it, and fapping to it. In the case of watching a porn star who was heavily pressured into doing that double-penetration she didn't want to do, for 8 hours straight, you're watching someone being forced to do something and getting an orgasm out of it.

 

And I also don't know why you brought it up because I'm all for universal labor laws that would prevent that kind of exploitation, just like I'm all for mandatory condom use in porn and government intervention in the industry for the sake of public health and worker safety. I've been ranting about the negative effects of outsourcing, free trade, NAFTA, and WTO for a very long time.

 

So, then, porn watching is okay as long as the content appears to be consensual, or otherwise if there are legal disclaimers stating consent by the models?

[MrNate]

Oh wow, my thread is on fire!

[Taramere]

Oh wow, my thread is on fire!

 

Porn threads always do tend to take off. I think porn is basically one of the most controversial subjects around. Generally it gets debated on here in a male v female context. On the other hand, if you google around there are various groups that adopt a pro or anti porn stance for political reasons that aren't related to gender....which can cause some unlikely alliances and divisions.

 

If porn were simply about people jerking off to pictures of naked women, I don't believe it would provoke half as much fury as it does. There's far more at play there, I think. The more politically correct we become as a society, the angrier and nastier the porn seems to get. A lot of men say it's a backlash against feminism, and that's probably a big part of it....but I think there are other political issues and prejudices involved. That documentary I mentioned contained a quote from one director who boasted that his films "make Belsen look like a picnic". I think porn taps into the viewer's insecurities and prejudices. It's an outlet for them, that normal civilised life doesn't provide...and maybe for that reason, there's a bit of a taboo against getting into too much debate about porn.

 

The nastier stuff taps into and fuels the "poor me....I want to get even...nice guys finish last" mentality that a lot of people get trapped into. It encourages those guys to get a vicarious thrill from seeing a woman get raped, but it subtly mocks the viewer at the same time as it ostensibly panders to his desire to be on top for once.

 

On the one hand it's saying "live vicariously through the guy on the screen there. Get his sense of power." On the other hand there might be a part of the viewer that's left wondering whether in reality, he's more like the gay man/woman who was getting abused on the screen....and I think that's how he's supposed to feel. Elicit that feeling of powerless anger in people that result in them paying to watch more and more abusive porn. A vicious circle, really.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Taramere

[Woggle]

I do think that an anti-feminist backlash might be a part of but not in the way many think. Watching porn can provide sexual stimulation and doesn't come half the drama that many real women tend to come with these days. Porn will never give you the I love you but I am not in love with you speech nor will it cheat on you and blame you for everything and it also won't dump you because you treat it too well.

 

I don't think that men watch porn because they enjoy seeing women degraded but because they simply want drama free stimulation.

[Engadget]

I do think that an anti-feminist backlash might be a part of but not in the way many think. Watching porn can provide sexual stimulation and doesn't come half the drama that many real women tend to come with these days. Porn will never give you the I love you but I am not in love with you speech nor will it cheat on you and blame you for everything and it also won't dump you because you treat it too well.

 

I don't think that men watch porn because they enjoy seeing women degraded but because they simply want drama free stimulation.

 

This belief that all men watch porn because it degrades women, or that all porn degrades women is laughable.

[Taramere]

This belief that all men watch porn because it degrades women, or that all porn degrades women is laughable.

 

Perhaps in the interests of balance, we could put together a porn film featuring you inflicting heinous abuse upon a straw man.

[Engadget]

Perhaps in the interests of balance, we could put together a porn film featuring you inflicting heinous abuse upon a straw man.

 

There is no straw man argument here, have you not seen women saying exactly that? Or that men try things they see in porn on women? That porn degrades women, they have no say, they're forced to have sex with people who don't wear condoms, etc?

 

Maybe you should follow these 1,000 discussions more closely.

[Taramere]

There is no straw man argument here, have you not seen women saying exactly that? Or that men try things they see in porn on women? That porn degrades women, they have no say, they're forced to have sex with people who don't wear condoms, etc?

 

You quoted Woggle, who was commenting on my post - which indicates that you were adding to his commentary on my post. Unless my post was presenting the views or arguments you're describing as laughable, then you are indeed attacking a straw man.

[Engadget]

You quoted Woggle, who was commenting on my post - which indicates that you were adding to his commentary on my post. Unless my post was presenting the views or arguments you're describing as laughable, then you are indeed attacking a straw man.

 

Incorrect, I was simply saying my own thing based on what he said. Because he quoted you prior doesn't mean I even read your post.

 

Sorry.

[sally4sara]

There is no straw man argument here, have you not seen women saying exactly that? Or that men try things they see in porn on women?That porn degrades women, they have no say, they're forced to have sex with people who don't wear condoms, etc?

 

Maybe you should follow these 1,000 discussions more closely.

 

And that DOES happen. Sometimes the things they want to try are things the woman is into too, but....not always.

Date some guys and find out.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Taramere]

Incorrect, I was simply saying my own thing based on what he said. Because he quoted you prior doesn't mean I even read your post.

 

I see.

 

Maybe you should follow these 1,000 discussions more closely.

 

I'll certainly endeavour to do so!

[A O]

If porn were simply about people jerking off to pictures of naked women, I don't believe it would provoke half as much fury as it does.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

There's far more at play there, I think.

Its juts another industry that has to keep reinventing itself to stay relevant for the times, but otherwise, its mostly about catering to a 'basic' need.

 

The more politically correct we become as a society, the angrier and nastier the porn seems to get.

You can say the same for music, video games, movies and TV. The boundaries continue to be pushed with each passing generation.

 

I think porn taps into the viewer's insecurities and prejudices. It's an outlet for them, that normal civilised life doesn't provide.

There are other outlets for the dysfunctional, porn isn't alone in this. And more to the point - the dysfunctional are in the minority not the majority of porn users as evidenced by the amount of users verse the amount of people getting into trouble with the law solely due to porn or breaking relationships solely due to porn.

 

The nastier stuff taps into and fuels the "poor me....I want to get even...nice guys finish last" mentality that a lot of people get trapped into. It encourages those guys to get a vicarious thrill from seeing a woman get raped, but it subtly mocks the viewer at the same time as it ostensibly panders to his desire to be on top for once.

Its interesting isn't it. These are obviously weak men. Its interesting how we perceive and argue about these types verse the weak women of the world. One is a potential abuser, the other a victim - pure n simple.

 

Elicit that feeling of powerless anger in people that result in them paying to watch more and more abusive porn. A vicious circle, really.

A reality for some but again - hardly the norm.

 

 

.

[Engadget]

And that DOES happen. Sometimes the things they want to try are things the woman is into too, but....not always.

Date some guys and find out.

That's all I have to say about that.

 

By that same token then, the vapid, materialistic and downright dumb women I run into who love shopping do so because of Sex and the City, yes?

[sally4sara]

By that same token then, the vapid, materialistic and downright dumb women I run into who love shopping do so because of Sex and the City, yes?

 

Possibly. I don't and have never been drawn by women like that enough to date them. But excessive shopping and materialism is something one can see evidence of before investing in a relationship enough to have sex (or to accurately compare - join income with). Not so true of porn addicts.

 

Sex in the City could have women buying things they see on the show that they'd not considered buying before - all because ooh ahh Carrie wore it.

[Engadget]

Possibly. I don't and have never been drawn by women like that enough to date them. But excessive shopping and materialism is something one can see evidence of before investing in a relationship enough to have sex (or to accurately compare - join income with). Not so true of porn addicts.

 

Sex in the City could have women buying things they see on the show that they'd not considered buying before - all because ooh ahh Carrie wore it.

 

I guess my point is it's not just porn, it's media in general. People can be influenced by it, and it's not restricted to just men and pornography. How many women have tried things that Cosmopolitan told them they should to please their man for example?