Maybe porn really does more harm than good for men?

[sally4sara]

I'm convinced many men watch porn and do at times, try to emulate it or ask for things that they saw in porn. I've had enough experiences with guys to experience this. So no, it's not horse crap and I think you know that.

 

Sally, try taking your own advice in regards to not being able to see what they are putting out there or their snide comments. The hypcrosicy in that amazes and titilates me.

 

 

 

Never denied this to not be the case. Put porn is not only fantasies inspired by real people, it's also a media driven market that is manipulated to push the boundries on what most people might be normally satisifed with. By the way, I've always said that the kind of porn a man likes is a good reflection of what he enjoys and says alot about a man. And while art imiates life and vice versa, again something I never claimed didn't happen, you can't ingnore the market value and how the product is manipulated for the market value.

 

Lastly, what does the first amendment have to do with anything? Did I ask porn to be banned?

 

Are you SURE? It was not my intent to arouse you in an erotic manner - maybe you can burn that off with some porn......

[Jersey Shortie]

Sally, it's comments like these that really hinder your more intellectual ones. No need to take cheap shots.

[sally4sara]

Sally, it's comments like these that really hinder your more intellectual ones. No need to take cheap shots.

 

What should I do about that Jersey? You got me over here like Robert Palmer singing "I didn't mean to turn you on" and wondering what I can say that won't get you horny.

 

Look, you say don't want to ban porn. You haven't said anything that indicates you have a BF, let alone a BF with porn addiction issues. It sounds very much like, in your life, porn is not present. What else can you expect that doesn't involve the banning of porn? What do you hope to accomplish beyond shaming men with these threads? IS THERE A POINT other than this for you? And to that, are you also addicted to porn by way of obsessing over it? Can you give up porn? Telling people that simply defending the use of porn indicates porn is very important to them, is pretty hypocritical of you when you cannot stop defending your use of porn either. Your use of porn may be different from their use of porn, but it is clear that porn plays a huge role in your life too. And that is pretty amazing since you claim you don't watch it.

You might not believe it, but I'm much more concerned with your living in fear of it than I am with any guy's use of it.

[Jersey Shortie]

That's right, I don't currently have a boyfriend and I never made claims that porn should be banned. Glad we've re-enforced the obvious. I have no issue with your disagreement or agreement of my opinions. But you take it a step further and make it into personal attacks. It would baffle me if I didn't know your history and posting style with not just me, but other posters I've seen you interact with.

 

You talk about "shaming men", ironically as you push your own agenda to *shame* me for my beliefs. Now me? I think this whole business of when people pull out the word *shame* to apply to other's ideas, is a savy internet message board trick pulled out when the commentor has nothing else to go on. And to further solidify that, if you really believed in this "shaming" business, you'd be calling out every other person here for giving their own opinion either way and would be telling them they were *shaming* the other just because their opinion disagreed.

 

You might not believe it, but I'm much more concerned with your living in fear of it than I am with any guy's use of it.

 

Oh no, I totally believe that's true! Because once you crossed the line and made comments along the lines of being ashamed that I am the same gender as you, I have no doubt in my mind you wouldn't further pull ploys like this above that are dubiously belittling in your "concern". By the way, the above comment is what you would call "shaming".

 

Now, can we turn back to the message of the thread? Or do you want to continue you to make me the topic..and if you are truly as deeply concerned as you claim to be, then send me a private message about your concerns. No one wants to waste time with our back and forth.

[sally4sara]

That's right, I don't currently have a boyfriend and I never made claims that porn should be banned. Glad we've re-enforced the obvious. I have no issue with your disagreement or agreement of my opinions. But you take it a step further and make it into personal attacks. It would baffle me if I didn't know your history and posting style with not just me, but other posters I've seen you interact with.

 

You talk about "shaming men", ironically as you push your own agenda to *shame* me for my beliefs. Now me? I think this whole business of when people pull out the word *shame* to apply to other's ideas, is a savy internet message board trick pulled out when the commentor has nothing else to go on. And to further solidify that, if you really believed in this "shaming" business, you'd be calling out every other person here for giving their own opinion either way and would be telling them they were *shaming* the other just because their opinion disagreed.

 

 

 

Oh no, I totally believe that's true! Because once you crossed the line and made comments along the lines of being ashamed that I am the same gender as you, I have no doubt in my mind you wouldn't further pull ploys like this above that are dubiously belittling in your "concern". By the way, the above comment is what you would call "shaming".

 

Now, can we turn back to the message of the thread? Or do you want to continue you to make me the topic..and if you are truly as deeply concerned as you claim to be, then send me a private message about your concerns. No one wants to waste time with our back and forth.

 

Whatever Jersey. When you're ready to confront your problems rather than continue to use porn - we'll be waiting.

[Jersey Shortie]

You know I got your number Sally.

[silic0ntoad]

The Only question I have, which has been so blatantly ignored by Jersey, is this:

 

WHERE'S YOUR PROOF.

 

Because, as I've shown, I've provided proof that goes specifically counter to your arguments, and you still cling to them, without ANY proof. All speculation.

 

I hate to say this, but your posts do reek of man hatingness. You used the term "Ask for" "Give" "Getting Sex" etc. When we all know that makes all men seem ridiculous and panderous. I disagree. I've had PLENTY of women ASK me for things, so what?

 

Sexuality is only as wide as you allow yourself to express it. Keep closing the closet door sugar, coz you're the one missing out. It's no fun to be angry and pissed off all the time about sh*t you can't control.

 

Buddhist proverb: accept things as they are, and peace will come to you.

[Des]

In your eyes JS, porn means this, that and the other. So that, for the most part, is what is argued over. People's beliefs about a certain subject rather than the actual subject itself!

 

How is this different from your approach to the argument? Who is the one that always manages to ignore specific statements in regards to porn or porn use, and counter with lectures on what nature is?

 

I firmly do not believe that is the "core" of this argument. I think that's a lame excuse to try and justify what's actually being discussed.

[A O]

You talk about "shaming men", ironically as you push your own agenda to *shame* me for my beliefs. Now me? I think this whole business of when people pull out the word *shame* to apply to other's ideas, is a savy internet message board trick pulled out when the commentor has nothing else to go on.

Its a savvy term for savvy posters, those of which, infer a lot without ever, ever directly saying as much. These types then often trot out the "but I didn't say that" bullshyt defense when the inference that can be taken from their posts is absolutely crystal clear! You're an absolute legend at this JS.

 

How is this different from your approach to the argument?

Such as? Its one thing to like or dislike a certain subject, its something else again to cast a raft of assertions, negative or otherwise towards one side or the other.

 

I can talk about porn without being judgmental towards those that have opposing views, more often than not. The likes of JS and yourself, neither one of you can talk about this subject without being judgmental towards it, more often than not. There's your difference. And most posters here, tend to fit under one of these two banners.

 

I firmly do not believe that is the "core" of this argument. I think that's a lame excuse to try and justify what's actually being discussed.

What's being discussed by some posters here, has little to do with the core subject at hand. What was a query has turned into another soapbox opportunity for both the anti-porn and pro-porn brigade. Can't say we weren't warned about this though.

 

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

The Only question I have, which has been so blatantly ignored by Jersey, is this:

 

WHERE'S YOUR PROOF.

 

Because, as I've shown, I've provided proof that goes specifically counter to your arguments, and you still cling to them, without ANY proof. All speculation.

 

What have you proved? We could both post a host of articles that are in favor of our personal view points. I do have some interesting stats on my computer at home some maybe I will post those this weekend.

 

I hate to say this, but your posts do reek of man hatingness. You used the term "Ask for" "Give" "Getting Sex" etc. When we all know that makes all men seem ridiculous and panderous. I disagree. I've had PLENTY of women ASK me for things, so what?

 

No. My posts reek of porn hatingness. If you want to equate my view on pornography and how it treats and repersents women to my feelings on men, that says more about how closely you tie porn to men then I do. And you have even agreed that porn objectifies and can be degrading to women. So stop telling me I hate men when you defend a medium that doesn't treat women very nicely. I never cease to find irony in people that try to pin me with "man hatingness: while trying to defend a medium that is often quite misognistic to women. I'm not allowed to find that disturbing? Whatever.

 

Sexuality is only as wide as you allow yourself to express it. Keep closing the closet door sugar, coz you're the one missing out. It's no fun to be angry and pissed off all the time about sh*t you can't control.

 

Buddhist proverb: accept things as they are, and peace will come to you.

 

I got all warm inside being called Sugar. I digress, who said my sexuality was closed off? Oy. I don't understand why I should accept things that aren't very nice to women to prove my love for men.

 

 

AO:

Its a savvy term for savvy posters, those of which, infer a lot without ever, ever directly saying as much. These types then often trot out the "but I didn't say that" bullshyt defense when the inference that can be taken from their posts is absolutely crystal clear! You're an absolute legend at this JS.

 

Here is the deal, people often either misrepresent or miscontrue my comments and add on their own personal feelings to things I never said. That is when I come out and tell them that I infact never said what they try to infer that I did. And that's the truth you don't want to admit AO.

 

 

I can talk about porn without being judgmental towards those that have opposing views, more often than not. The likes of JS and yourself, neither one of you can talk about this subject without being judgmental towards it, more often than not. There's your difference. And most posters here, tend to fit under one of these two banners.

 

I am judgemental about the topic, hell yeah. Don't start preaching PC crap AO. I expect better from you then that. And if you are honest with yourself, you got your own judgemental attitude going on. It's not that you don't care that I am judgemental. You care that I have a different view and judgement a medium that is harsh on women more times then not. And judge men that defend this kind of medium.

[silic0ntoad]

Objectifying women is nothing new, JS.

 

Cave paintings? Sure. What about Rennasaince art? Or, Mayan and Aztek art, depicting the beauty of princesses and queens? It's nothing new.

 

Sure, I agree, that some porn does degrade women. I never said it didn't. But just as a blanket statement that "all women cheat" is untrue, so is "all porn degrades women."

 

What about the porn showing white males sitting in a corner while a white girl gets rogered by a black man with a huge schlong? Is that not degrading to white males?

 

It's all situational. Not all porn degrades women. Reverse gang bang porn doesn't degrade women, and it shows men in submissive positions while girls do what they want.

 

Just a few examples to debunk your argument that the entire industry seeks to undermine femininity.

 

And on the point of examples, since you claim to have figures, I want to see what percentage of men and women's views of sexuality are skewed due to early age porn consumption. That's what I want, since you insist on harping about it.

 

Let's be fair here. If you want to say pornography use at a young age pushes a derogatory view on females from the male perspective, then playing with barbies pushes a super high maintenance view of female sexuality on young girls.

 

Acceptance is key, JS. You'll never change porn, or men. The only thing you can do to be happier in life is change yourself.

 

You seem to have this view that "I harbor this feeling of negativity that completely consumes my relationships when it comes to pornography. Not only will I rail against it, but I won't compromise on it either."

 

On the note of misandrist claims, I only say that because you say and imply things such as "men getting sex" and "giving them sex" and "defend their porn." If that doesn't come of as bitter about MEN, IDK what does. I say the misandry line as a result of these entitled statements that sex is something a woman can give, but also withhold, at her discretion. On the note of defending porn, of course a man who uses porn will defend it. Why? As noted in the article I posted above, alot of people (men and WOMEN) hold back on their true sexual desires.

 

As an example, if I, as a man, am really into sex outdoors, but my SO isn't, and everything else about our relationship is excellent, who are you or anyone else to tell me I can't watch porn as a fantasy release for that desire, without imposing it upon my SO with diminuative results? Is that not more fair, and more of a compromise, then saying "If you don't bang me in the woods, I'm leaving you for someone who will."

 

I don't see how that is degrading at all. And in fact, it would probably lead to a healthier relationship overall then seeking to push that sexual desire upon a SO who doesn't desire it in turn.

[sally4sara]

Here is the deal, people often either misrepresent or miscontrue my comments and add on their own personal feelings to things I never said. That is when I come out and tell them that I infact never said what they try to infer that I did. And that's the truth you don't want to admit AO.

 

 

I am judgemental about the topic, hell yeah. Don't start preaching PC crap AO. I expect better from you then that. And if you are honest with yourself, you got your own judgemental attitude going on. It's not that you don't care that I am judgemental. You care that I have a different view and judgement a medium that is harsh on women more times then not. And judge men that defend this kind of medium.

 

It is very easy to do. Many of your words get misused and I think it contributes to the chaos. Such as the "I got your number" could be misconstrued as a threat...

But this too goes both ways, when I pointed out you seem to only get down on guys about using porn - you heard something different. Anyone can be irresponsible about porn if they are inclined to. That is not limited to men. This is where the man hating vibe rolls off you.

We have a female friend out in Cali. She is a submissive lesbian and she has been in a few porns with other women (her long term partner for one) that she knows personally. She likes her work. Pays her bills with it and by managing one of the few strip clubs on Earth with a Worker's Union and insurance bennie for the dancers. Does this sit better for you? Solve some of your concern?

 

If not what do you propose? Not a ban. So......? This issue; what is your goal?

[Jersey Shortie]

Feel free to take a poll Sally and see how many others thought my comments, "I got your number", was anywhere near a threat. You're the only person I ever heard term the phrase "I got your number", as a threat. You're really grabbing at straws here.

 

One reason certain people insist on labling me with certain view points that I never expressed because they can not seperate my comments about pornography from men. Another reason is that I think alot of people don't want to admit to the truth because that might mean having to be honest about their own habits. Does this make them bad people? No but is a common human action. Another reason is part misunderstanding. That's why I've always acknowledged these false statements and went on to explain what I did say. But even after that, some insist on forging forward with their own beliefs based on their own interpretation. And that's just not something I can be responsible for. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Even me. That doesn't mean I won't stop to defend my viewpoint if I think it's being misrepersented.

 

And yes, I get down on men who use porn because that has been my greater experience. I've said this before. I never denied, not once, in all my time posting that some women don't infact view porn and can be addicted to it or misuse it. That's your own personal perception based on what *you* think I should be saying that best qualifies your own personal opinion/agenda.

 

I will say that I do think that porn is a bigger weakness among men, and that while I understand there are women that use it, I hold fast that it's still mostly used by men, more of the time and that porn for men is more often hardcore and objectfying to women.

 

As for having a man hating vibe, I think there are enough posters here that know, like and understand me and will be able to say that sure, I talk about porn ad nauseum and think it's negative and question men on how they feel about women based on it, but can see that I do not hate men at all. This has become a conveinet scape goat for posters like you that get so frustrated that instead of sticking to the topic, take personal shots.

 

Although I will say it again, it's ironic that some people tell me I hate men when all I am questioning and discussing a medium that overall isn't positive to women and often calls women names and puts them in degrading positions, and then go on to say that men *really* respect women even though they like these things and I'm the one that hates men because I question them. Ridiculous and laughable. It's funny that some people want to call me a man hater but no one calls men women haters for liking to see a woman banged from behind while being called a whore.

 

 

She is a submissive lesbian and she has been in a few porns with other women (her long term partner for one) that she knows personally. She likes her work. Pays her bills with it and by managing one of the few strip clubs on Earth with a Worker's Union and insurance bennie for the dancers. Does this sit better for you? Solve some of your concern?

 

If not what do you propose? Not a ban. So......? This issue; what is your goal?

 

Not sure what you think this should change for me.

[Jersey Shortie]

Objectifying women is nothing new, JS.

 

Hey, you are right. Keep on objectifying women and then tell them how awful they are for being upset about it.

 

What about the porn showing white males sitting in a corner while a white girl gets rogered by a black man with a huge schlong? Is that not degrading to white males?

 

Umm so let me get this straight, you got one man watching while a girl has sex with another man..and that's degrading to who? Two men in the room with one girl who is getting bleeped by one guy and another guy looks on.

 

Just a few examples to debunk your argument that the entire industry seeks to undermine femininity.

 

It does seek to undermine feminiity that isn't media driven and scripted. Porn showcases women that are hyper-examples of feminity as well as treat and respond to sex more like a man would then a woman would. Most women don't want to have alot of different men use her body just to get off. Most women want a man that honestly cares about her. Most women in porn are shown as responding to sexual situations more stereotypical of what would interest a man more often then it would a woman.

 

Let's be fair here. If you want to say pornography use at a young age pushes a derogatory view on females from the male perspective, then playing with barbies pushes a super high maintenance view of female sexuality on young girls.

 

Yes, I do think images young girls can see can be harmful as well. But playing with a doll is different then imagery of real people doing real things and real women looking a certain way. Although I do not deny that Barbie does push an unrealistic ideal about the female body too.

 

Acceptance is key, JS. You'll never change porn, or men. The only thing you can do to be happier in life is change yourself.

 

I am sorry but I don't buy into this mentality. I do not have to accept something just because it's popular. Infact, it is when people stand up for what they believe in that counts, no matter the popularity. Imagine this sentence in regards to slavery. "Acceptance of the status que is key", is what you might as well being saying. I don't think i will change every man but I think I will get men to stop and think and see it differently.

 

You seem to have this view that "I harbor this feeling of negativity that completely consumes my relationships when it comes to pornography. Not only will I rail against it, but I won't compromise on it either."

 

Yes, I don't understand why the one thing that men expect women to compromise on in a relationship is basically other women.

[Bejita463]

One very important difference is that when you play video games, watch TV, and listen to the radio, there's no powerful, high-reward payoff of an orgasm and the ensuing rush of feel-good euphoria and relaxation neurohormones oxytocin and prolactin in the brain, as there is with masturbating to porn. The orgasm euphoria is almost as intense as the euphoria that results from injecting heroin. Video games, radio, and TV consumption do foster certain hormonal patterns that can be habit-forming, but the intensity is notably lower than when orgasm is involved.

 

If I really wanted to, I could vilify just about anything so that it sounds just as bad in a similar way. Wait, I don't need to. Jack Thompson and Grand Theft Auto. All of the mediums you just tried to claim are different can cause powerful emotional reactions too. If you think that porn is the only thing that can do that, you watch, play, or listen to absolute garbage.

 

As for the pseudo-science... sounded nice, but [citation needed].

[sally4sara]

Feel free to take a poll Sally and see how many others thought my comments, "I got your number", was anywhere near a threat. You're the only person I ever heard term the phrase "I got your number", as a threat. You're really grabbing at straws here.

 

One reason certain people insist on labling me with certain view points that I never expressed because they can not seperate my comments about pornography from men. Another reason is that I think alot of people don't want to admit to the truth because that might mean having to be honest about their own habits. Does this make them bad people? No but is a common human action. Another reason is part misunderstanding. That's why I've always acknowledged these false statements and went on to explain what I did say. But even after that, some insist on forging forward with their own beliefs based on their own interpretation. And that's just not something I can be responsible for. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Even me. That doesn't mean I won't stop to defend my viewpoint if I think it's being misrepersented.

 

And yes, I get down on men who use porn because that has been my greater experience. I've said this before. I never denied, not once, in all my time posting that some women don't infact view porn and can be addicted to it or misuse it. That's your own personal perception based on what *you* think I should be saying that best qualifies your own personal opinion/agenda.

 

I will say that I do think that porn is a bigger weakness among men, and that while I understand there are women that use it, I hold fast that it's still mostly used by men, more of the time and that porn for men is more often hardcore and objectfying to women.

 

As for having a man hating vibe, I think there are enough posters here that know, like and understand me and will be able to say that sure, I talk about porn ad nauseum and think it's negative and question men on how they feel about women based on it, but can see that I do not hate men at all. This has become a conveinet scape goat for posters like you that get so frustrated that instead of sticking to the topic, take personal shots.

 

Although I will say it again, it's ironic that some people tell me I hate men when all I am questioning and discussing a medium that overall isn't positive to women and often calls women names and puts them in degrading positions, and then go on to say that men *really* respect women even though they like these things and I'm the one that hates men because I question them. Ridiculous and laughable. It's funny that some people want to call me a man hater but no one calls men women haters for liking to see a woman banged from behind while being called a whore.

 

 

 

 

Not sure what you think this should change for me.

 

I've heard it used as a threat through literal meaning, but that was not my point. You have no control over how your words are taken anymore than I have control over your misuse of words, their definitions, and spelling. I KNEW it was not a threat, just that in text and without facial expression people will struggle to communicate even when words are used properly and spelled correctly. It is not a mission against you and it is not always willful.

 

To the woman I spoke of and her coworkers? Are they victims? If she enjoys the work and has seen to her coworkers being represented as legitimate employees with benefits and union backing - are they victims? Its a living. They are not forced. They are women who benefit from the porn industry. Are they victimized by men? themselves?

Or would they be victimized by having their livelihood taken from them?

 

It seems maybe you mainly have issue with a particular flavor of porn? We had a thread a few months back asking women what kind of porn they watch and what kind of things they fantasize about. Many of the female posters admitted to BDSM porn enjoyment and rape fantasies. Is it possible that their sexuality also contributes to the way men (at least their partners) think of women and sex? Just as much perhaps as porn? Are women then contributors to the kind of sexuality (degradation, humiliation, rough play) that you find unsavory? You meet a guy who has this in his last relationship - his ex liked being choked and called names - is it because of porn if he asks if you'd like to do these things too?

[silic0ntoad]

Hey, you are right. Keep on objectifying women and then tell them how awful they are for being upset about it.

 

Keep skewing my intent. The female form has been viewed with passion for its beauty for ages. I don't buy into this, JS. You skew everything into this twisted little "all for the menzes" perspective.

 

 

 

Umm so let me get this straight, you got one man watching while a girl has sex with another man..and that's degrading to who? Two men in the room with one girl who is getting bleeped by one guy and another guy looks on.

 

 

Yes, as a white male, I find it degrading. The men in these videos are generally depicted as emasculated, watching their GF's get porked by some guy with an unrealistically large dong, thus emphasizing the lack of size in white males. I do find that degrading.

 

 

It does seek to undermine feminiity that isn't media driven and scripted. Porn showcases women that are hyper-examples of feminity as well as treat and respond to sex more like a man would then a woman would. Most women don't want to have alot of different men use her body just to get off. Most women want a man that honestly cares about her. Most women in porn are shown as responding to sexual situations more stereotypical of what would interest a man more often then it would a woman.

 

Once again you skew it. Your vision is of strictly hardcore pornography where a woman is used and discarded. What about amateur porn, which I find the most appealing, where couples can make love, instead of f*ck? Is that so undermining of femininity? Again, another blanket assumption on your behalf.

 

 

 

Yes, I do think images young girls can see can be harmful as well. But playing with a doll is different then imagery of real people doing real things and real women looking a certain way. Although I do not deny that Barbie does push an unrealistic ideal about the female body too.

 

Oh, of course! It's not ok to look at pornography, being that it is soul damaging and unhealthy, but the entirety of barbie dolls and the impact they have on young girls isn't AS BAD, right? Perhaps only because it doesn't go along so well with your argument. Pornography affects one aspect of sexual desire in that realm. Barbie emphasizes body physique, sexuality, fashion, hell, even having a BF that it rich and good looking (Ken), and driving fast sports cars as being what girls should do. But then again, the evol pornz is werser.

 

 

 

I am sorry but I don't buy into this mentality. I do not have to accept something just because it's popular. Infact, it is when people stand up for what they believe in that counts, no matter the popularity. Imagine this sentence in regards to slavery. "Acceptance of the status que is key", is what you might as well being saying. I don't think i will change every man but I think I will get men to stop and think and see it differently.

 

Now we're comparing pornography to the sufferage of slaves? I shouldn't have expected less. You were also the same person who said porn addiction was more dangerous then hard drug use. Popularity has nothing, nothing to do with this at all. Standing up for your beliefs is fine, I get that, isn't that why we are debating? But accepting that it won't change will allow you to open your mind's eye and see some of the evidence to the contrary that has been provided to you, no matter how strong your feelings.

 

You won't get anyone to stop and think about using porn. Why? Because the logic you use is circular and flawed, based on unproven claims, and unsupported by modern research.

 

 

 

Yes, I don't understand why the one thing that men expect women to compromise on in a relationship is basically other women.

 

This. This sums up your entire perspective for me. You equate porn as cheating. Yet I posted a perfectly valid example of HEALTHY porn use above in the vein of a couple dealing with sexuality and sex outdoors. You chose, dilligently, to ignore that example, to befit your own needs to further your argument.

 

Not every man cheats. Not every man lies. But every man at some point has looked at, and will probably look at again, some form of pornographic imagery for sexual release.

 

GASP.

 

So will almost every woman.

[Jersey Shortie]

I've heard it used as a threat through literal meaning, but that was not my point. You have no control over how your words are taken anymore than I have control over your misuse of words, their definitions, and spelling.

I KNEW it was not a threat, just that in text and without facial expression people will struggle to communicate even when words are used properly and spelled correctly. It is not a mission against you and it is not always willful.

 

I've never heard that use as a threat through literal meaning. And holy crap, I grew up in the Soprano State. Ironically, even though you knew it wasn’t a threat and go on to say that it wasn’t your point at all, you still felt the need to waste everyone’s time making it. So for you to sit there and now claim that you don’t have a mission against me, is very contradictory.

 

By the way, I couldn't spell my way out of a oil hole. Am I embarressed by this? Nope. I know my level of intelligence. You’re resorting to some more petty antics that really deter me from wanting to answer anything you ask. And that's darn right that you don’t and shouldn't have control over the words I decide to use and you don’t and shouldn't have control over the words I spell. Just as I don’t have control over your own vocabulary or the cheap shot you decide to take in attempt to bully not just me, but other posters. My vocab isn't the issue here. Different mindsets and personalities are. You put me down repeatedly in this thread and you expect me to answer your questions. I’m sorry but that's not going to happen. I am itching to respond to your questions but I will forgo it because it's not going to change your opinion anymore then it's going to change mine.

[soserious1]

Eventually smart women reach the point where they don't care what a man looks at or doesn't look at, many of us also reach the point where we don't care who else he beds.

 

I find the concept of monogamy odd, having a man tell me that he's going to really "sacrifice" in order to remain faithful in body to me while indulging himself in porn, strippers or good old fashioned gawking at gals in the street to sate his sexual hunger be totally bizarre.

 

At this point I will only consider totally open relationships where we are both not only free to see/bed others but where it is expected/encouraged that we do so. It's IMHO a far more honest way of living than the concept of monogamy.

[silic0ntoad]

Since we've been discussing, JS, I'll ask for her:

 

Do you think some of women's desires also fuel the types of pornography distributed? And if so, some women's fantasies can arguably be considered more drastic then male fantasies (Think rape, bdsm compared to multiple women at the same time.) If that's the case, and a prior gf had asked a guy you were with to perform things like BDSM and choking, yet the guy had never watched pornography with that intent, what would you do?

[sally4sara]

words

 

Thanks for not addressing any of the points I made and wasting everyone's time with your ego grudge match. Your posts are confusing because of your vocabulary. Earlier you were telling me I had sexually aroused you and I prefer to think you just didn't understand the word you used rather than think you're hitting on me. But that isn't your fault right?

 

Lets see, you got my number eh? Should I expect a call so you can further sexually harass me over the way my posts get you hot?

 

I think the reason why you don't want to address any of the points I've made is because they do not serve your agenda against men. They do not serve your agenda about women being frail victims through life who cannot be held accountable for their own actions. You much prefer to believe the women in porn were snatched off the street against their will and forced to be in these movies. Maybe that happens? Is it the norm? Traci Lords (brilliant business woman) and Jenna Jamison don't strike me as victims.

[soserious1]

Sally,

 

The issue that I find demeaning, shaming if you will is the entire concept of monogamy. Having to buy into the idea

that a man is going to have to "sacrifice" in order to remain faithful in body only to me ,is pretty shameful and demeaning.

 

I far prefer total, blunt honesty "yeah I'll fsck you but I'd much rather be fscking that 22 yr old if she'd let me"

 

That I can cope quite well with, in that situation I'd much rather have a man I'm involved with pursue that 22 yr old and bed her if she'll let him rather than having him sit there filling his eyes with her for an hour in order to come to my bed and try to muster up enough energy to try to

pretend to be interested in what I've got to offer.

 

Why not simply agree that both parties are free to eat wherever they get their appetites ? Why must we carry on the sham of monogamy?

[silic0ntoad]

Sally,

 

The issue that I find demeaning, shaming if you will is the entire concept of monogamy. Having to buy into the idea

that a man is going to have to "sacrifice" in order to remain faithful in body only to me ,is pretty shameful and demeaning.

 

I far prefer total, blunt honesty "yeah I'll fsck you but I'd much rather be fscking that 22 yr old if she'd let me"

 

That I can cope quite well with, in that situation I'd much rather have a man I'm involved with pursue that 22 yr old and bed her if she'll let him rather than having him sit there filling his eyes with her for an hour in order to come to my bed and try to muster up enough energy to try to

pretend to be interested in what I've got to offer.

 

Why not simply agree that both parties are free to eat wherever they get their appetites ? Why must we carry on the sham of monogamy?

 

 

I think open relationships are simply for convenience, personally. Sorry, not my bag. I'd rather not be the cuckold.

[soserious1]

I think open relationships are simply for convenience, personally. Sorry, not my bag. I'd rather not be the cuckold.

 

how exactly is one being the "cuckold" if the agreement between both is that the relationship will be open right from the start?

 

I'd rather not get told that I'm expected to slobber in gratitude because a man stuffs his eyes and mind with porn in order to make the horrible "sacrifice" of being physically faithful to me. I consider the entire concept bogus and really demeaning.

[silic0ntoad]

Wow. I am glad you have an open mind, but that's terrible that you think us men watch porn as a substitute for women.

 

I am actually pretty offended by alot of the women posters here who think that.

 

What a waste. This forum used to offer good advice. I am starting to think everyone here is entirely too bitter to offer anything of any kind of worth.