For OW from MM

[joey66]

Ah, I see. Well, you can redirect the question at me or just answer it. You should ask your MW the same thing and post both answers. I think it would be interesting to compare and contrast the two answers.

 

Does hopeless4u's post do anything to you at all? I mean, do you lay in bed at night all cuddled up to your W and think about your OW drinking just so she can sleep? Or do you force images of her crying, tears that you caused, out of your mind?

 

Further, I'd like to know how hard or how easy it is to brush those images off. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the most difficult, how easy or hard do you find it to brush those images out of your mind?

 

No, I do not lie in bed cuddled up with my W thinking about MW's suffering. I do not think about her tears. I do not have images of her drinking herself to sleep or crying.

 

Because, if she is suffering, she's doing a fine job of hiding it! She is the one who broke contact. She is the one who stopped sharing with me. She is the one who plays games with me now.

 

I told her once that I thought she enjoys my suffering. That particular morning she came round and blatantly flirted with a mutual acquaintance, someone she had never given the time of day to before. She waited until I was close by so I could get the full show. She knew it would drive me insane, and it did. I sent her a nice email detailing just how it hurt me. Which is exactly what she wanted. And she hasn't spoken to him again since.

 

This is one example. There are more. So no, I do not have images of her suffering. And I, too, would love to hear her answers to your questions.

[TroubledSoul1]

Hi Heather -

It was never about the sex with us- that was a bonus. I just can't living what has amounted to be in my mind, 2 lives anymore. I just can't take it. That's what happened. The stress level for me was through the roof.

I am exhausted. And although I do next to nothing with my wife- talk, activities, yard stuff at the end of the day I am still married. I think I forgot that for awhile.

 

She (fOW) has encouraged IC for long time. I know she deserves much better and should be with someone who can be there for her. And the sad fact is I don't know if I ever can be. I feel like I have been so "conditioned" to living the way I am now I don't know if I can be that other person she wants me to be.

 

I just can't keep hurting her.

And as far as my wife goes, she overall is a nice person- except she doesn't love me the way I want her too. She has no romantic interest in me nor I her. I think we have both become comfortable, complacent and just another couple who have grown apart in so many ways.

[Fallen Angel]

No, I do not lie in bed cuddled up with my W thinking about MW's suffering. I do not think about her tears. I do not have images of her drinking herself to sleep or crying.

 

Because, if she is suffering, she's doing a fine job of hiding it! She is the one who broke contact. She is the one who stopped sharing with me. She is the one who plays games with me now.

 

I told her once that I thought she enjoys my suffering. That particular morning she came round and blatantly flirted with a mutual acquaintance, someone she had never given the time of day to before. She waited until I was close by so I could get the full show. She knew it would drive me insane, and it did. I sent her a nice email detailing just how it hurt me. Which is exactly what she wanted. And she hasn't spoken to him again since.

 

This is one example. There are more. So no, I do not have images of her suffering. And I, too, would love to hear her answers to your questions.

 

Joey,

 

I can see your frustration and hurt in your posts, but what I fail to understand is how you can be so angry at her, when by all accounts you have no right to be. What I mean by that is that you are not making moves in your marriage to change things in order to end your marriage.

 

If you are unwilling to end your marriage in order to be in a fulltime commited relationship with her, then how can you expect her to do what you yourself are unwilling to do?

 

I know that her cutting you off like she did is painful for you, but if she sees no future in a relationship with you, then why should she continue in the relationship? I am just curious how you think that is not the pot calling the kettle out on being black?

[Fallen Angel]

Hi Heather -

It was never about the sex with us- that was a bonus. I just can't living what has amounted to be in my mind, 2 lives anymore. I just can't take it. That's what happened. The stress level for me was through the roof.

I am exhausted. And although I do next to nothing with my wife- talk, activities, yard stuff at the end of the day I am still married. I think I forgot that for awhile.

 

She (fOW) has encouraged IC for long time. I know she deserves much better and should be with someone who can be there for her. And the sad fact is I don't know if I ever can be. I feel like I have been so "conditioned" to living the way I am now I don't know if I can be that other person she wants me to be.

 

I just can't keep hurting her.

And as far as my wife goes, she overall is a nice person- except she doesn't love me the way I want her too. She has no romantic interest in me nor I her. I think we have both become comfortable, complacent and just another couple who have grown apart in so many ways.

 

My only question to you, is looking back in another 20 years from now, is this going to have been a life worth living for you? Will you be able to spend your last day on this earth being content with what you have done with your life if "comfortable, complacent and grown apart" is what you decide to continue to live with?

 

My fear for you is that you will spend your next 20 years unhappy and unfulfilled because you were afraid to make a change. It makes me very sad for you. that is not a life I could live. That is not a life I could chose, and I actually pity you because I fear that is exactly what you will do out of nothing more than fear of being alone.

 

I suffered through a long and terrible marriage because I thought it was the right thing to do, until I figured out that I would rather be alone by myself than alone with someone else. When you figure out how very alone you are right now, even though you live under the same roof with your wife, then maybe you will be willing to take the risk. Until then, you will continue to live your physical life with your wife, and your emotional life completely alone.

 

Good luck to you, my friend. I hope you can make the right choices, even if they are the hard ones. (((hugs)))

[joey66]

Simple question for all. If it had been an MOW that had made TS1's posts, would she get the same level of criticism?

Edited April 29, 2010 by joey66
content

[secretlady76]

Simple question for all. If it had been an MOW that had made TS1's posts, would she get the same level of criticism?

 

Nah, she woud be swept up into the arms of the posters and made to feel better. You're a guy, so therefore you get crap; it's the rules. Come on, you men love a bit of nagging

[joey66]

Joey,

If you are unwilling to end your marriage in order to be in a fulltime commited relationship with her, then how can you expect her to do what you yourself are unwilling to do?

 

I know that her cutting you off like she did is painful for you, but if she sees no future in a relationship with you, then why should she continue in the relationship? I am just curious how you think that is not the pot calling the kettle out on being black?

 

There was never any talk, by either of us, about ending our Ms and being in a "fulltime committed relationship." I don't expect her to continue in our R. At this point I don't expect anything, though I wish she would stop playing games.

 

I was just trying to say that, it isn't necessarily the M(O)M who causes (and perhaps enjoys watching?) the suffering. Sometimes the (M)OW is a cold-hearted b*tch. Nobody here, of course.

[White Flower]

I know she deserves much better and should be with someone who can be there for her. And the sad fact is I don't know if I ever can be. I feel like I have been so "conditioned" to living the way I am now I don't know if I can be that other person she wants me to be.

 

I just can't keep hurting her.

And as far as my wife goes, she overall is a nice person- except she doesn't love me the way I want her too. She has no romantic interest in me nor I her. I think we have both become comfortable, complacent and just another couple who have grown apart in so many ways.

Ah TS, then re-condition yourself! Renegotiate the rules of your life my friend! It is freeing and will be for your W as well. Why should your W deserve less just because you allow yourself to be bound and chained unhappily so as a condition?

[TroubledSoul1]

Hi All,

I'm scared to make any changes.

That's the bottom line. That's why I need help. I've never made any huge changes in my life and I think before I met her (fOW) I just thought I was doing the right thing and going along the was I supposed to. Now she's made me see everything so differently.

 

I'm not a risk taker (yes I know the cheating thing is considered risky behavior) but as far as everything else goes in my life I'm not. I always have done what I thought was the right thing. Now I am doubting myself myself about everything in my life. Was everything I did wrong?

 

And thanks 2long for going wasy on me. And Fallen Angel I know I have hard decisions to make. And I don't know if I can do it. I really don't. fOW told me once that I have probably another 30 or so years to live -give or take- and is that the way I really want to live them (with my wife)? I think about that quite often. She's so flipping smart.

 

I feel so stupid and angry with myself. How come I didn't push the issue with my wife 10 years ago or 15 or 20? Because I thought she would change? I really feel like an idiot. I already wasted so much time.

 

Time. Time is such a precious commodity.

 

Oh- and 2 long- she is 47 years old. Was married briefly when she was 22-23 (I think-please don't get the calculator out, lol) for about 2 years. She has no problems with her ex who she's friends with and they keep in limited touch because of their son. She even visits with him & his wife. I think I remember her telling me she went to their wedding maybe 20 years ago? (Again- no calculator please.....).

 

I'm writing random thoughts so I'll stop. I do wonder what she's doing. I wonder when and if I ever get my stuff together if she'll ever talk to me again. I wonder if she thinks about me. I wonder if she knows I'm hurting really bad.

 

Oh- and I wrote to the board here at LS about my other thread. I don't think I violated anything- at least nothing than I can recall. I asked them to repost and if they couldn't to send me a copy via email.

 

I think I've wrote every random thought that popped into my mind. Sorry if I seem confused- but the sad truth is I am.

[Heather1]

Yeah, CPA's usually aren't big risk takers. My H an Engineer, same thing. I'm sure it's like living black & white, & then there's color in your life.

 

There's a book I read called, "When Good People Have Affairs." I HIGHLY recommend it in your case.

 

How about a trial separation? (still NC).

 

For Joey, I don't judge either way. I'm not angry at xOM, what else were we supposed to do? I miss him terribly, but because of the circumstances I totally understand both sides.

[Brightmoon]

Troubledsoul, I have been following your threads and feel for you.

 

This must feel like a lose-lose situation (I am not saying that it is, but it must feel like one).

What 5 things would you most miss about your wife or your marriage if you were to divorce? (without OW in the picture... divorcing cos your marriage is as dysfunctional as you say it is.)

 

What 5 things will you miss the most about your wife or that marriage?

 

Apols if similar has already been asked.

[jthorne]

TS- Please read this thread. Read all of it, not just the first page.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t223067/

[summerautumn]

Troubledsoul,

 

I had written you on the other thread, and found it so bogus that it was taken down. Now I will paraphrase, but am having a crappy evening, so bear with me, ok. Your candor has touched me, even the way you write, you truly want some answers for yourself, that's awesome.

 

Your username is troubledsoul, not troubledmind, troubledheart, your soul is rebelling towards you. It wants to be free. Hate to say it, but you do not have 30 more years the way you are living. You are sucking the life out of yourself. And this crisis that you are going through, it is your opportunity to set free in many aspects of the word. I truly believe you are not going to squander this opportunity, as you are seeing the world anew now, and you will not go back to your previous life. Even if you wanted to, you would not be able to.

 

So how do you get unstuck and start making risks? Start small, make changes, experience new things. I was suggesting yoga in the other thread, yoga can move you through emotions like nothing else. all of your emotions that reside in you, that are totally blocking you right now, you can get that energy unstuck. Go on a trip, pick up a new hobby, read something you would never read otherwise. And notice how all this makes you feel. Make a small change every day for a month. You are bound to feel new things. There is a chinese book of change that is very wise - I Ching.

 

And my note about the woman - she is evolved, she gets why you do what you do. She was mad before, but probably got over it by now. Don't fret over what you've done so far. I do agree that probably giving her space while you make the big step is wise, but don't waste your energy thinking about what you screwed up with her.

 

I have a friend who is divorcing his wife even now, after years of separation she doesn't want to divorce. You can't make the changes for your wife, but you can make your changes. Expect the roadblocks, expect her to resist this, ACCEPT HER AS SHE IS! That's the only thing that will set YOU free.

 

Accept where you are at. The only way out is through.

[bananalaffytaffy]

TS, I hate to be mean, but if you don't have the intestinal fortitude to make a decision, you'll deserve exactly what you'll get. Only you can decide what you deserve.

 

Good luck.

[White Flower]

I feel so stupid and angry with myself. How come I didn't push the issue with my wife 10 years ago or 15 or 20? Because I thought she would change? I really feel like an idiot. I already wasted so much time.

 

Time. Time is such a precious commodity.

 

TS, it is never too late. Anything is possible. Make the last years the BEST years.

 

Hugs.

[OWoman]

I'm scared to make any changes.

That's the bottom line. That's why I need help. I've never made any huge changes in my life and I think before I met her (fOW) I just thought I was doing the right thing and going along the was I supposed to. Now she's made me see everything so differently.

 

TS you sound very much like my H. He's not a beancounter but he's also done the careful, dutiful thing his whole life. He never stopped to think he was entitled to be happy, somewhere along the line, too.

 

Until the A. Until he got a glimpse at a different sort of life. Until he realised that happiness was possible FOR HIM, even at this stage of his life.

 

Like you, he walked on eggshells around his (x)W. Like you, she was completely uninvested in the M, had no desire to change anything because everything suited her just fine. Like you, he was also blamed for wanting things to change, was also deemed to be "at fault", the problem, the one who needed to get his act together if he was unhappy because, "objectively", there was no problem, outside of his head.

 

Like you, he never had a bad thing to say about his (x)W. He just wished she'd treat him a little differently - show him a little warmth, now and again; be pleased to see him sometimes. Enjoy HIM, not just the lifestyle he provided.

 

Like your W, his xW thought he loved him, didn't want to D... but didn't care that he was unhappy, clinically depressed or needed things to change. She had what she wanted, and saw no reason to give up even a small bit of her comfort to try to address his deep unhappiness - just like your W, it was all about HER, to her. He didn't feature, except in regard to her and her wants or whims.

 

And, like you, he'd had decades of conditioning. He'd been with her all that time, coming to think of their M as "normal", despite the growing hole inside him where love should have lived. It was only the A that showed him what he'd been missing all that time.

 

Of course he was also frightened of change. Of course he worried that things with me might not work out, that he'd face the rest of his life alone... and, in addition, he had the worry of doing what was best for his kids, which you're spared.

 

Like your OW, I also pushed him to consider what he wanted his life to be like, where he wanted to be in five, ten, twenty years time. I asked him hard questions about his life, about what he would tell the boy he once was if he could visit him in a dream and tip him off about the future - or, if he had to account to him for what he'd done with all that potential. TS, do you not owe it to your 10 year old self to make a go of being happy? Are you not letting down that hopeful, life-full boy by allowing death to clutch you around the throat a little tighter every day?

 

I'm not a risk taker (yes I know the cheating thing is considered risky behavior) but as far as everything else goes in my life I'm not. I always have done what I thought was the right thing. Now I am doubting myself myself about everything in my life. Was everything I did wrong?

 

Not wrong, if you knew no better. But now you do. Now you've seen how life, and how YOUR life, could be different, and better. If you choose now to carry on the way you have been, then yes, you will be letting yourself down, badly.

 

Can your W change, to make your M better? She's already indicated to you she's not interested. Turning her back on you and yawning when you spoke about D, and telling you the problem was with you, shows she's not willing and not able to make the kind of changes you're wanting and needing. So your choice is between staying as you are for the rest of your life - knowing how different life could be - and making that change.

 

A slow death, or life. It's your choice. You can make it - but you have to want to.

 

Good luck TS! I hope you've found a better counsellor, one who doesn't make all your choices for you like your W does; one who challenges you to make YOUR right choices and find out what's best for YOU. Good counselling helped my H to get his act together and choose life. Good counselling could help you, too.

[jthorne]

I think we have both become comfortable, complacent and just another couple who have grown apart in so many ways.

I don't mean to be nasty, but I do mean to give you some straight talk.

 

You say your situation is so complex. Actually, it's one of the simplest cases I've seen here on LS. There are no children, and two complacent marriage partners. My grandparents divorced after 47 years of marriage. No IC or MC (my grandpa referred to it as "hippy crap"), no feeling sorry for themselves, no nothing. A plain vanilla divorce. People get divorced everyday. I don't get why you think your situation is so special and so complicated. It's that way because you CHOOSE to make it that way.

 

Here's what I see happening here: once the sting of the OW dumping you fades away, you'll go back to your lazy complacent life, bitter and unhappy, and blaming everyone but yourself for your unhappiness. I REALLY hope I'm proven wrong.

 

Best of luck to you.

[BB07]

TS......you are correct, it is confusing and complicated, I get that. You want guarantees......I get that too. The truth is....life is not easy and yes it's confusing and complicated and life changing decisions are hard, very hard. You feel like your hands are tied, but you are the one who has them bound up. I think if you don't change your life you are going to be a miserable bitter person in a few years. Time does not roll on forever.

[jthorne]

I don't have a dog in this fight. It doesn't affect my life at all whatever the OP does or doesn't decide, but can someone please explain to me what's so darned complicated? You have:

 

1. No children

2. A couple that don't appear to give a d#mn about one another, and have no problem taking each other for granted

3. Enough assets to split comfortably

4. Neither appear to have a religious aversion to divorce

5. Sure they have years together, but most of those years seem to be pretty miserable if you go by the OP's estimation.

 

Where's the complication??? Perhaps I'm confusing laziness and fear of the unknown with complication, I dunno...

If it's fear, I can understand that. It's natural to be afraid of making big changes. But to hide behind "It's SOOOO complicated", I can't support that.

 

Like I said, OP, I do wish you the best of luck whetever you decide (or don't).

Edited April 30, 2010 by jthorne

[BB07]

I don't have a dog in this fight. It doesn't affect my life at all whatever the OP does or doesn't decide, but can someone please explain to me what's so darned complicated? You have:

 

1. No children

2. A couple that don't appear to give a d#mn about one another, and have no problem taking each other for granted

3. Enough assets to split comfortably

4. Neither appear to have a religious aversion to divorce

5. Sure they have years together, but most of those years seem to be pretty miserable if you go by the OP's estimation.

 

Where's the complication??? Perhaps I'm confusing laziness and fear of the unknown with complication, I dunno...

If it's fear, I can understand that. It's natural to be afraid of making big changes. But to hide behind "It's SOOOO complicated", I can't support that.

 

Like I said, OP, I do wish you the best of luck whetever you decide (or don't).

 

You made great points jthorne and I get what you are saying. Breaking up a marriage is complicated......it does appear that breaking up his marriage would be a lot less complicated than most, but yet we only get a little piece of the picture here at LS. There could be other things the poster isn't telling us. I don't mean to make assumptions but his wife may be perfectly happy just getting by and with the status quo as it is, so she may balk and pitch a big hissy fit if and when he decides to make a change. I'm not disagreeing with you, but in my experience nothing is as simple as it seems. I wish it was! I do totally agree with you in that with the picture he has presented us, he is hiding behind the root of it and that is mostly fear of the unknown.

[MizzBlue72]

I can understand your trouble. You have a lot of history, etc. invested.

Only you can decide what you want out of life.

Grab the bull by the horns. Whatever decision you make - make the best of it!

And - not deciding is an action. I truly believe you should only leave for you and you alone though .... no one else.

[TroubledSoul1]

'What 5 things would you most miss about your wife or your marriage if you were to divorce? (without OW in the picture... divorcing cos your marriage is as dysfunctional as you say it is.)"

 

So I have been pondering this for days....

I am going to tell you how I honestly feel and I am sure I am going to get ripped a new *********, but sorry this is all I can come up with. I know full well how stupid these are going to sound but this is the truth:

 

1. Predictibility of knowing what to expect from someone I'm living with on a day to day basis

 

2. Knowing that I have someone (Something is better than nothing?)

 

3. The history of being with the same person for a huge part of my life.

 

4. Predictibility of knowing what's expected of me.

 

5. I don't do laundry- never have. She washes - I fold & put away. I don't cook- never have. She maybe makes 1-2 meals a week and I get something from a deli or pizza the other nights.

 

Brightmoon- I see your question as a huge exercise for me and can't tell you how much thought I have put into really thinking about those 5 things. Right now this is all I can come up with. They are lame excuses in that I could always learn how to cook something I suppose and figure how the washer works- but ultimately do I really want to?

 

I go through these "attitudes" in my head - back and forth all the time. I shouldn't have to do these things- I feel sometimes like I paid my dues in life already to another women and if I end up being with someone else I am going to have to start all over again from scratch.

 

I already paid my dues in sense that over the years I bought her a couple of cars, did the jewelry thing and I feel like I'm done with that. I really don't want to have to do all that again. But I remember the OW discussing with me from time to time that my thought process and behavior was unacceptable regarding several issues.

 

Let me expand:

1) I would take her critisicm and storm off. She would call and then explain to me that she had a point of view and deserved the respect of my listening to her communicate - and that no matter what the issue is I needed to express how I felt to her about it so we could discuss it, resolve it and move on. I remember one particular incident as an example:

We agreed to meet for coffee after we both we done working out at the gym. I did my workout and she did what she had to do and then she was going to tan. Well I couldn't find her when I was done so I figured she blew me off so I left. 10 minutes later she called furious with asking where I was. I told her I couldn't find so I figured she'd left. She was pretty pissed and told me I was rude and disrespectful. She said, maybe I was in the locker room, or tanning, but you just upped and left? She told me I that was inappropriate behavior and a huge turn off. She couldn't understand why I should have waited for at least 10-15 minutes at our cars in the parking lot. She went on to say this is not how you treat someone and said what if I was a guy friend do you think he would put up with your crap?

 

See I'm so conditioned to react however I feel at that moment instead of thinking about anything or anyone else. It didn't occur to me that I had hurt her feelings but not commumicating with her at all. She keep saying even if you had to leave or didn't want to wait I could have called her cell phone and left a message saying I couldn't wait but would talk to her later and looked for her and couldn't find her.

 

I guess on some level I just wanted her to put up with to how I behave. This is how I am so take it or leave it. Maybe this was my way of pushing so she'd do the dirty work of getting so fed up with me she'd walk away because I don't have the balls to.

 

I also remember her telling me on multiple occasions if I do ever get divorced and start dating again (not with her specifically) that I be hard pressed to find someone who would put up with my crap and lack of communication skills. She is of the mindset that if there's a problem it needs to be discussed immediately and not be allowed to fester. She likes to address everything right away and put it to rest. I like to just walk away from whatever the problem is and come back to it days later and continue thinking that a cool off time is needed.

 

She has blatantly told me that this is probably one of the huge problems in my marriage and she could see how my wife feels because she said I'm sick of your behavior and I've only known you for a short while and that she said "I can't imagine what its like to have to deal with this for years on end", she also said "no wonder your wife shows you no affection- she's turned off". I heard her what she was saying, but now that I think about it, I just refused to actually think maybe she was onto something. But I don't care. I refused to think I was wrong and until my wife makes an effort I'm not budging.

 

I guess I am in a bad mood today because I feel particularily pissed off. I have tried to talk to my wife- many many times and she doesn't listen. She just doesn't listen to me- so why should I make any effort anymore.

 

OW also told me one time, half-jokingly, I need to be retrained on how to treat women. She said I haven't had to do any real "work" in a relationship for so long that I don't know any better.

 

I get exhausted thinking about all this crap. It boils to me being lazy I think. Do I really want to make such a drastic change in my life and go through the bull$hit of a divorce to only have to start all over? I mean I know where I stand now, I know what to expect and I know what's expected of me. Its not so terrible- there's just that one element of romance that's missing. Maybe I should just be grateful for what I have and call it a day.

[TroubledSoul1]

TS- Please read this thread. Read all of it, not just the first page.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t223067/

 

 

This was hard to digest.....and read

whatever happened to this guy?

[TroubledSoul1]

Troubledsoul,

 

I had written you on the other thread, and found it so bogus that it was taken down. Now I will paraphrase, but am having a crappy evening, so bear with me, ok. Your candor has touched me, even the way you write, you truly want some answers for yourself, that's awesome.

 

Your username is troubledsoul, not troubledmind, troubledheart, your soul is rebelling towards you. It wants to be free. Hate to say it, but you do not have 30 more years the way you are living. You are sucking the life out of yourself. And this crisis that you are going through, it is your opportunity to set free in many aspects of the word. I truly believe you are not going to squander this opportunity, as you are seeing the world anew now, and you will not go back to your previous life. Even if you wanted to, you would not be able to.

 

So how do you get unstuck and start making risks? Start small, make changes, experience new things. I was suggesting yoga in the other thread, yoga can move you through emotions like nothing else. all of your emotions that reside in you, that are totally blocking you right now, you can get that energy unstuck. Go on a trip, pick up a new hobby, read something you would never read otherwise. And notice how all this makes you feel. Make a small change every day for a month. You are bound to feel new things. There is a chinese book of change that is very wise - I Ching.

 

And my note about the woman - she is evolved, she gets why you do what you do. She was mad before, but probably got over it by now. Don't fret over what you've done so far. I do agree that probably giving her space while you make the big step is wise, but don't waste your energy thinking about what you screwed up with her.

 

I have a friend who is divorcing his wife even now, after years of separation she doesn't want to divorce. You can't make the changes for your wife, but you can make your changes. Expect the roadblocks, expect her to resist this, ACCEPT HER AS SHE IS! That's the only thing that will set YOU free.

 

Accept where you are at. The only way out is through.

 

1. Thanks- because I do

 

2. Yep- fOW told me the same thing that this is going to take a toll on my health in so many ways. And yep your right- now I know I can't go back because I know with the right person I could have so much more which is scary because what I know is only what I thought I knew for almost 40 years- and this freaks me out

 

3. Change. The root of everything. Maybe I don't want to change at this stage of my life? I'm pissed I'm where I'm at- I paid my dues and I should reaping the rewards for my efforts- stopped drinking 10 years ago, started working out more, and I got no appreciation, no thanks, no great job. I remember fOW trying to get me to get new underwear (I look younger than I am and am very active) but OW wanted me to get those snug briefs that go mid-thigh instead of my "tighty-whitey's) and I flat out said no. This is what I wear its what's comfortable to me and that's it. I recall her saying if I wouldn't even consider something as trivial as that then how am I going to feel about really making any huge changes? But, again maybe I'm in a bad mood, but too bad- I like my same old underwear just fine.

 

4. I can't help it. I think about fOW and things she has said to me. How I should have handled things better and how much I have hurt her. I know her intentions were good, but maybe I just can't do it. On the other hand she should know and accept I already paid my dues and understand that at this stage in my life I like the way I am about certain things and don't want to change them. If she wants me she has to accept them.

 

I haven't given a crap in SO long about the little things that meant so much to fOW because my efforts were not appreciated for SO many years by my wife that I guess that I just think they really don't matter. Do I really want to start all over again? Do I really want to have to work so hard again only to take the chance that I could possibly end up alone or end up exactly where I am now but just with another person? I know your all going to tell me its up to me and if I put the effort in I can make sure (to some degree) that I do things differently.

 

I guess I'm pissed off that all the hard work I have done already basically counts for nothing.

[TroubledSoul1]

TS you sound very much like my H. He's not a beancounter but he's also done the careful, dutiful thing his whole life. He never stopped to think he was entitled to be happy, somewhere along the line, too.

 

Until the A. Until he got a glimpse at a different sort of life. Until he realised that happiness was possible FOR HIM, even at this stage of his life.

 

Like you, he walked on eggshells around his (x)W. Like you, she was completely uninvested in the M, had no desire to change anything because everything suited her just fine. Like you, he was also blamed for wanting things to change, was also deemed to be "at fault", the problem, the one who needed to get his act together if he was unhappy because, "objectively", there was no problem, outside of his head.

 

Like you, he never had a bad thing to say about his (x)W. He just wished she'd treat him a little differently - show him a little warmth, now and again; be pleased to see him sometimes. Enjoy HIM, not just the lifestyle he provided.

 

Like your W, his xW thought he loved him, didn't want to D... but didn't care that he was unhappy, clinically depressed or needed things to change. She had what she wanted, and saw no reason to give up even a small bit of her comfort to try to address his deep unhappiness - just like your W, it was all about HER, to her. He didn't feature, except in regard to her and her wants or whims.

 

And, like you, he'd had decades of conditioning. He'd been with her all that time, coming to think of their M as "normal", despite the growing hole inside him where love should have lived. It was only the A that showed him what he'd been missing all that time.

 

Of course he was also frightened of change. Of course he worried that things with me might not work out, that he'd face the rest of his life alone... and, in addition, he had the worry of doing what was best for his kids, which you're spared.

 

Like your OW, I also pushed him to consider what he wanted his life to be like, where he wanted to be in five, ten, twenty years time. I asked him hard questions about his life, about what he would tell the boy he once was if he could visit him in a dream and tip him off about the future - or, if he had to account to him for what he'd done with all that potential. TS, do you not owe it to your 10 year old self to make a go of being happy? Are you not letting down that hopeful, life-full boy by allowing death to clutch you around the throat a little tighter every day?

 

 

 

Not wrong, if you knew no better. But now you do. Now you've seen how life, and how YOUR life, could be different, and better. If you choose now to carry on the way you have been, then yes, you will be letting yourself down, badly.

 

Can your W change, to make your M better? She's already indicated to you she's not interested. Turning her back on you and yawning when you spoke about D, and telling you the problem was with you, shows she's not willing and not able to make the kind of changes you're wanting and needing. So your choice is between staying as you are for the rest of your life - knowing how different life could be - and making that change.

 

A slow death, or life. It's your choice. You can make it - but you have to want to.

 

Good luck TS! I hope you've found a better counsellor, one who doesn't make all your choices for you like your W does; one who challenges you to make YOUR right choices and find out what's best for YOU. Good counselling helped my H to get his act together and choose life. Good counselling could help you, too.

 

 

I don't know what to say-

You have hit the nail on the head with SO many things you said.

I just don't know if I have the guts to do what I should.

Why is this so much of a struggle for me? Why? Why do I feel like I am constantly fighting this and just get the darn divorce?

Why am I such a wimp?