Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I have long struggled with this question and although I have spent much time working on it and reading books in the past, every now and then it rears its ugly head and bites me again. Now is one of those times. In brief, I am an only child, and my parents divorced when I was 4. I developed an unusually close bond with my mum. Even as adults we were the best of friends and talked about anything and supported each other. That is how it was, until I met my current partner, with whom Mum had a disagreement over money issues. She was staying in our house at the time (inbetween homes) and wanted us to help her out with some money for a house she was buying (reasoning we are family and my parents have always helped me) and my partner (who is a financial advisor!) said we could not afford it as we now have our own plans/life/responsibilities and at the time actually had very little in the bank as we were paying off an overseas trip. This issue became a lot more complex and nearly ended my relationship, because I got caught in the crossfire, and my mum acted in a very controlling, upset manner, obviously because she was frightened of change and was having trouble letting go. I was devasted and received counselling and cried a lot. Eventually I figured out that I needed to stand my ground, and stand with my man on this issue, and that mum and I had probably even been a bit co-dependent over the years, and that I had to learn how to live without her approval, even if it is desirable. Last year, my mum eventually apologised to my man (he would not go there until she did, which was a frustrating issue in itself , I was cross with them both!) and they are actually friends now and we all get on well. What a relief! Mum and I have a balanced relationship now and once again we are very close. Back to the story, Mum bought that house I mentioned above anyway, but became so broke she had to sell it (more strain on me at that time and us all). She then cleared her debts and has bought another beautiful home near the beach. She was not left with a lot of money left over and is now "asset rich" but with little cash flow (she is unable to work due to back problems, and is of retirement age now anyway). My mum is a very generous lady and loves giving, but also often spends beyond her means (which she did at Christmas very example). As a result of all this, my mum is often struggling to pay bills, or even sometimes buy groceries. She has a couple of dogs and cats, and the vet bills also add up. One of our oldest dogs is very ill and the vet bills are costing a lot. Last night mum was so down and was venting to me about her finances and also her health (her neck gives her pain a lot). At these times I feel so powerless to help! I have fought to not take on her worries all the time, but sometimes it still gets to me. And my man and I earn good money between us. But, as he reminds me, we are saving for a house deposit and have been also saving very hard for the past couple of years to take a year off and travel around our country in a caravan, so we really can't throw our money around. We also hope to have some investments for when we eventually decide to start a family. We are both already 30 and 31 and trying to build things up. So how do I handle this when I start to worry about her so much and also feel a bit guilty. I think I basically know the answers and have been told many times before, I could just do with some reminders. I tend to want to fix things. Thanking you. P.S. In the past we have helped mum out with little things, like buying groceries, or helping out with cash here and there. I have also done little things over the years, like pay for a holiday we took etc, or helping out with stuff in the house. But now that I am no longer single, the decisions I make must take in many other things! My mum is also in full support of our travel plans and so on, and things it all sounds great. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Hmm. 1. Your mother does not have a lot of money and she isn't very good at planning her budget. 2. Your husband is a financial advisor. Something adds up here. I can't really figure out what... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 If you mean, he should help her manage her affairs, we have tried to offer advice, but things in that area are still pretty sensitive since the big blow up between them in 2002, which was about money and familial duties etc. I also try giving mum advice, but in the end, she makes her decisions, and says she does not regret for one minute buying the house she is in, as it gives her so much joy. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I see how this could be difficult. Was it you that posted the thread on a fight between you and your mother over a cable bill? I understand your mother turns to you. There's a saying in my language that says a child costs about the price of a house. You do owe her something, and you're doing great by buying her groceries and stuff. But she should accept the fact that she can't afford things like expensive treatments for her dog, and however unpopular it could make you, it's up to you to tell her... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 No, I haven't really posted about this dilemma before. I did write something about it many months ago, but not regarding a cable bill. One lady who counselled me and is also a friend, said sometimes you have to be harsh to be kind. Meaning, helping mum out all the time isn't doing her any favours, when she needs to be responsible for herself, and also that it could set up an unhealthy pattern of dependency (my guy fears this happening). That makes sense but is easier said than done! Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I can understand. My mother lives with us now and prior to that we helped her with money. Saving money and planning trips and buying a house, etc. are great -- but do those things really come first? Lots of things come along in life to change our plans. I would give up, I have given up, vacations and home improvements, etc. so that I can take care of my mom. I don't give her the money -- I pay the vet bills (& we've had some doozy's over the years) and I pay the mechanic and buy the groceries, etc. It took a long time for my husband, mother and I to adjust. My husband and mother had a falling out a few years before she moved in with us. We were staying with her in California, it was supposed to be our last night there. We had taken her to Disneyland, and San Francisco, and a whole lotta other places and the last couple of days in LA my husband and mother began fighting and it lasted on the drive back to Modesto and when we pulled up she told us to get our things and leave. We ended up staying at the airport that night -- which cost us even more money than we had planned. It was horrible. Now she lives with us. In March it will be five years since she moved in. She is an invalid. WE have not had a vacation since that horrendous trip. We can't even get away for a weekend. Mom moved in with her elderly dog and we had five of our own. In the last five years we've lost the three oldest and had lots and lots of vet bills. Also hospital & funeral bills as we had 2 deaths in the family also. And my husband is now disabled and we are having some money problems -- but you know what? I wouldn't trade the time with my mother for all the savings and all the vacations and all the homes in the world. My husband understands that. He knows that I could not go on a trip and be worried about my mother having enough to eat. He couldn't do it either. It sounds like your guy is and either/or type of person. What about compromise? He has to understand that just because you love your mother and want her to be happy does NOT mean that you love him any less or that he is less important to you than your mother. You can love more than one person at a time. Find some compromises. If your mother won't listen to you about finances, then don't give her the money, but help her out with the necessities -- including vet bills because you are dealing with lives here and not "things." Be selective about how you help her. If her sofa is all torn and ratty and uncomfortable, and the dog needs heartworm pills - get the pills and nevermind the sofa. If she buys you expensive gifts at Christmas -- take some back afterward and use that money to help her out when she needs it. Find a way to compromise. You won't be able to make eveyone happy all of the time, but it can be easier and you can find a balance--but be warned: Once the balance is found it must be maintained! It won't stay that way without some effort. I know because I have to maintain that balance all the time in my home. Good Luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Thanks for the food for thought Hokey. I do know its hard when the animals get sick. They are part of our family. I think the eldest may have to be put down very soon and it breaks my heart. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Erm. Reality is your mother has physical problems, she's already old and she will become more and more dependent of you as she get's older. You could look at her as a burden, but give her some credit, she has given you a lot in life, both financial and emotional. (at least I may hope so) I'm sorry I'm enforcing your feeling of guilt but that's the way I see it. She probably had to postpone trips when she had you as well. On the other hand: as you support her financially, you also have a saying in her budget. So you can be kind by being harsh. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I agree with Hokey that balance is the keyword here... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 She has certainly done a lot and sacrificed a lot for me. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Ugh. What a difficult situation My mom was terrible with money. It was the cause of the arguments my folks had and, after they divorced, she'd end up borrowing money from people because she never did acquire any money sense. Because of her, I swore I'd be self-sufficient and I NEVER borrow money. Nobody bailed my mom out - she had to sort out for herself how to get out of messes (I wasn't working yet). Maybe your and your husband could agree on a small regular supplement for her and tell her that she has to work with that and expect no more. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 I find this quite a moral dilemma. For example, we did tell mum when she bought her current home, she would be leaving herself short. My partner was hoping she would buy something smaller, so he could invest the remainder sensibly for her, and she could have extra to live off. Yet, she chose not to take that path, and now struggles with the financial consequences, and as I result, I struggle too! Link to post Share on other sites
Bunnyboy Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Hi, I am thinkalots partner. I am quite new to this type of forum and I have found it quite helpful with more then a few matters as of recent. THANKS ALL! I would just like to clarify the situation further so that you have the full picture. My mum-in-law has champagne taste but lives on a beer budget (on government pension). The large house (2 storey 3 bedrooms and she is the only resident) that she went ahead and purchased is in a sought after area by the beach with views of the ocean and cost a considerable amount (AUD$440,000, which is well more then the average cost of an Australian house). I aired my opinion (as a financial planner, not a son-in-law,as to take the emotion out of the decision), that she would be far better off buying a smaller residence in order to have surplus funds left over to easily supplement her pension (when invested properly) for the rest of her life. I aired this due to the fact that she will have ongoing medical expenses, vet expenses for the animals, car updates and costs with the home that she would need to consider not only now, but for the rest of her life. Emotion took over common sense (as per a financial planners point of view), and the house was purchased. I was extremely frustrated by this action, but mum-in-law said that she would live with the consequences of buying this house. About now it is my guess that mum-in-law has spent all of her remaining capital. I understand that there is more to buying a house then the money involved, but at some point one must look at the bigger picture and "balance" things. Now don't get me wrong, we do help out with grocery money, and money to help her out when her friends come up to stay or visit, gifts for the house and also take her out to meals/movies etc, but I really don't see why the onus is on my partner and I to rectify her mum's lack of foresight or planning. At some point I feel that she must take responsibility for her actions (down size house or whatever) rather then complain about her position. She is a spender and doesn't use a budget and for the forseeable future this will not change (especially if she still has a credit card!) even with the several offers of help that my partner has offered (I dare not suggest it due to the falling out that took place- see thinkalots prior post) to help with a budget. From a financial perspective my partner and I have only been together for 3 years and are in the process of putting our lives together in quite a committed relationship at the ages of 31/30 and have things that we would like to plan for (kids, our own house deposit etc). Whilst I agree that helping out every now and then in not a hassle, being a constant 'financial crutch' is in my opinion is not on! This is also in the light that I also have family members who are not as well off (asset wise) as my mother-in-law and I feel that if we help her more, that we would also have to help them. Where would one draw a line in the sand and say "no more" ? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Welcome, Bunnyboy! You know, you surely must not be the only two people who have ever had to deal with this. What do people in your business usually advise other families in the same situation? Are there services for seniors that have financial planning that she might pay attention to? I suspect that no matter what hat you put on, you'll still be 'family' and, as such, not really taken seriously. Maybe a gentleman closer to her age who does this sort of financial advisory stuff could help? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Well that reply from BunnyBoy was unexpected. We must be one of the only couples to both have posted on LS! Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 "The family that posts together stays together " Well, it sounds good, doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Sure- I'll go with that! Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 My FIRST thought Thinkalot was that my Mom would ALWAYS come first for me. I can't imagine not giving her anything she may ever need. I wouldn't enjoy a new pair of shoes if I thought she was doing without anything. THEN AGAIN, even though she is very set financially.....she is not frivolous, she is wise and frugal.... and she would NEVER live above her personal income means. So, each situation calls for a different kind of solution. In your case, you may very well HAVE to show some tough love. I feel for you though....cause I can only imagine how hard that would be. Maybe there could be a compromise in which you say you wil give her X amount of dollars a month and if she goofs it away....then you don't have a reason to feel guilty. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 So BunnyBoy and I would like to know where do you draw the line? He has family members in need too, only they don't want our help and tell us to do our thing. But my partner would feel funny helping my mum without helping out his family too. This issue has caused conflict between us in the past, but I can now see this point of view. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Hi all, any more feedback or food for thought for the two of us on handling this? Basically there is a fair bit of background info regarding mum's spending habits, and times where I have helped her out, and it hasn't always been the wisest course of action. But Arabess, like you said, it is tough, when I obviously have a strong emotional attachement, to show tough love! My mum doesn't want us to abandon our travel plans, she has been pushing us along, and even helped us buy the caravan as she thinks it will be a wonderful experience for us. She is just not sensible with her own money! She also tends to fall into periods of depression, which I find hard to cope with, because I can't fix it, and yet, I also can't feel depressed all the time because SHE is depressed. I do try to talk to her about her feelings and her situation and offer suggestions (such as counselling), and I see her on average on one of my days off each week to hang out. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I would think unless a parent or family member was ill or unable to care for themselves, you still have a right to live your life and have personal financial plans as a couple. All you can really do is decide how much you can give to help her out.....and then let her make her own mistakes. If she goes broke....well THEN would be the time to advise her to either make a budget, lose some expenses or find another way to get by. I have had friends who's parents took financial advantage of them. It's always a tough call. I wish I could be more help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Thank you Arabess. My partner and I are saving hard for our goals, and therefore our budget doesn't leave much money for our individual personal spending. However we do have SOME "personal" money, and in the past I have used mine here and there to give to mum for things. That way I'm happy and my partner is happy and mum gets a boost when she needs it. It just isn't that much that's all. I have been told by my counsellor and friends in the past, that I can't fix everything for my mum, and sometimes have to let things be in this situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Thinkalot Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Just wanted to say I had a lovely day with my mum today and I am feeling better. She is also in better spirits today. I helped with the vet bill, and our little dog is doing OK for now. We also talked about drawing up a budget. I really love my mum a lot, and just want her to be ok, and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts