An Update

[Brokenlady]

Against my better judgment a few months ago, I took him back - yet again. We started with a new couple's counselor. He bought another house large enough to accomodate all of us and our kids. Things seemed to be going well - but as usual, the underlying problem remains. He was still emotionally "cheating" on me with his ex-wife. They continued to take day trips togethr, have deep talks about their failed marriage, and all that stuff he knew upset me and chose to do anyway. He continued to try to help his ex-wife get over him by pissing her off rather than taking any responsibility on himself. He continued to confuse his kids with his mixed signals. And, most of all, he continued to lie to me and himself. He has no remorse at all (as marked by behavior change) and takes no responsibility. He blames my "unreasonableness" on my childhood. (Because every other woman would happily accept this duplicity, right??? Please).

 

So - for the millionth time, I am done with this. Here's hoping the quadrupled dose of antidepressants I'm now on finally works so he can't suck me back in with fear. I don't know why I set myself up for another round of this crap. Desperation? Fear? Je ne sais quoi.

 

The thing is, I can't keep doing this. It's killing me, quickly. I have deteriorated more in these last two years than in the worst periods of abuse in my childhood. So how do I resist the urge to cave to the fears he knows to play on? How do I find a way to feel secure that I'll be ok without him and not alone the rest of my life? (In many ways I fear my participation in the affair with him is something I'll never live down). Any thoughts?

[Spark1111]

Against my better judgment a few months ago, I took him back - yet again. We started with a new couple's counselor. He bought another house large enough to accomodate all of us and our kids. Things seemed to be going well - but as usual, the underlying problem remains. He was still emotionally "cheating" on me with his ex-wife. They continued to take day trips togethr, have deep talks about their failed marriage, and all that stuff he knew upset me and chose to do anyway. He continued to try to help his ex-wife get over him by pissing her off rather than taking any responsibility on himself. He continued to confuse his kids with his mixed signals. And, most of all, he continued to lie to me and himself. He has no remorse at all (as marked by behavior change) and takes no responsibility. He blames my "unreasonableness" on my childhood. (Because every other woman would happily accept this duplicity, right??? Please).

 

Ouch! His confusion is still great. Does he go to IC? You are not being unreasonable. You are being made to feel insecure, I suspect, on purpose.

 

Some men LOVE the drama.

 

So - for the millionth time, I am done with this. Here's hoping the quadrupled dose of antidepressants I'm now on finally works so he can't suck me back in with fear. I don't know why I set myself up for another round of this crap. Desperation? Fear? Je ne sais quoi.

 

Because you were hoping he/your relationship with him/his continuing relationship with her/ WOULD CHANGE!

 

The thing is, I can't keep doing this. It's killing me, quickly. I have deteriorated more in these last two years than in the worst periods of abuse in my childhood. So how do I resist the urge to cave to the fears he knows to play on? How do I find a way to feel secure that I'll be ok without him and not alone the rest of my life? (In many ways I fear my participation in the affair with him is something I'll never live down). Any thoughts?

 

Are you in IC? I have been, on and off, for years in trying to overcome my childhood. I have learned the hard way that I deserve to be treated with respect and consideration. When I enforce that, I get it.

 

You deserve that too! And you will only be alone if you continue to feel UNWORTHY of being loved.

 

You are smart, introspective and good. Own that. And if you can't, get into IC, deal with your past and your present and gain the confidence to have a glorious future!

 

Dump him for good. You know it is the only way to freedom!

[Brokenlady]

Spark,

Thanks for your thoughts. He dropped out of IC months ago with a lame excuse (as I fully expected he would). The problem of course is all these unreasonable woman in his life, not him.

 

I've been in IC continuously, but I still haven't been able to keep that door shut. My self-worth is non-existant. And I think focusing on him has helped me avoid working on feeling better about myself - too easy to focus on how crappy he makes me feel. So, I picked up a psychiatrist 2 months ago, and I'm hoping the meds and additonal support can help give me the strength I need. He's a slow death for me, I know it.

 

I don't think he's confused at all. He still wants us both (he admits to this)and keeps trying new configurations to make that happen. (1st it was keeping me behind xW's back, then it was keeping xW behind my back, now it's keeping both out in the open). Naturally this is never met with happy acceptance from me and so he says I'm unreasonable, damaged from childhood, and not accepting of him as he is. His recently spending more time with her has given him selective amnesia about all she's done to him. It is my hope that he moves with her into the new house he bought (the one he claimed was supposed to be "our nest" for our new life) so I can get away from both of them and maybe, just maybe move on.

 

Frankly, I would be glad for them taking each other off the market to avoid them doing this to anyone else. Let the socipaths destroy each other. Ugh.

 

I know he will pursue me again. I know it. He always has. How do I respond, how do I stay strong. I feel like I need help - a stand-in to tell him to f-off for me cause I can't do it myself.

[Hazyhead]

I'm so sorry BL. I have nothing really constructive to say, just wanted to send you hugs. Please look after you and if it means your health then consider deeply if he is worth all this.

 

((((((((((BL))))))))))

[Brokenlady]

Thank you Hazy. I've come to the conclusion that he isn't worth it. I don't even know who he is - but I do know that the mirage I fell in love with is long gone. What is left is a hopelessly selfish, unempathic man bent on using both me and his ex-wife for his satisfaction. I can't make him into the person I thought he was, I can't even help him see what he is.

 

He called me today after several days of silence and I rejected the call. He left no voicemail and made no ther attempts. He is probably pissed upon having discovered that I deleted both of the accounts we used during the affair. He liked to look back at all the love emails i sent him. I don't think he deserves that part of me anymore and frankly I want to erase as much of the affair itself as I can. I want to put it all behind me and not be tempted myself to wallow in nostalgia. So it's all gone. Every nice and nasty email he ever sent me. Vindictive? Maybe a little.

 

Anyway, my goal now is to think of him as little as possible. So far, redirecting my thoughts has kept me out of dire despair, but it's very difficult. One thing that has helped is I called our couples counselor to let her know what happened. Essentially she confirmed my opinion that he will never change and is basically a selfish douchebag. It meant a lot to me because he always blames me and this is the 1st time I've been able to get an opinion from someone who knows us both. It helps.

[Hazyhead]

Good for you, BL. I really wish that you heal fully from the damage he's inflicted upon you. Judging from his past behaviour, I don't think he's going to change in a rush... he's a mixed up man. It's funny how your counselor confirmed what you said! He doesn't deserve you, hon; show him that by moving on without him.

[Brokenlady]

He kept calling, and I was correct, he was pissed about the email accounts and that I moved my vacation week so it no longer matches with his. Wasn't real keen on the idea of being in the same vacation town as him (and his ex-wife, who "coincidentally" picked the same week and was staying nearby). He says I'm "overreacting" and my emotional swings are "scary". Sigh. Oh, and he's still mowing his ex's lawn.

 

I really don't think I can ever get through to him because he doesn't "get" that what he's doing in screwed up beyond belief. But I think that's been obvious all along, and certainly by December when he lied to his xW about our enagegement and I found out he took her on vacation behind my back last summer. And he slept over at her house twice in December. (But he'll take a lie detector test to swear he ddn't sleep with her - ha! And he thinks I'm cheating on him with a coworker, so he wans me to take one too (way to deflect responsibility). Puhleez.

 

And I'm still disturbed that years after the fact he still has yet to have a serious conversation with the kids. He just left and they got divorced with no discussion with the kids. For months after the divorce, he didn't even know if the kids knew bc he refused to discuss it. All I know is that I don't want my kids seeing this relationship as any kind of example. That scares me more than anything.

 

I just can't get over how deep something is wrong with me that I have such trouble walking away when I really want and need to.

[norajane]

So how do I resist the urge to cave to the fears he knows to play on?

 

How do I find a way to feel secure that I'll be ok without him and not alone the rest of my life?

1. He's adding to your unhappiness and fears, not helping them. To avoid caving, you have to stop talking to him. He can't play on your fears if you aren't listening to his talk.

 

2. He's making you more insecure about yourself, and is not making your life any better. In fact, he's making it worse. Getting him out of your life will FREE YOU to find a healthy relationship so that you don't end up alone. It is clinging to him that actually will ENSURE you end up alone.

 

Keep reminding yourself of those two things. Continuing to focus on him is counter-productive, and is actually increasing your fears and failures.

[her_halo_slipped]

Spark,

Thanks for your thoughts. He dropped out of IC months ago with a lame excuse (as I fully expected he would). The problem of course is all these unreasonable woman in his life, not him.

 

I've been in IC continuously, but I still haven't been able to keep that door shut. My self-worth is non-existant. And I think focusing on him has helped me avoid working on feeling better about myself - too easy to focus on how crappy he makes me feel. So, I picked up a psychiatrist 2 months ago, and I'm hoping the meds and additonal support can help give me the strength I need. He's a slow death for me, I know it.

 

I don't think he's confused at all. He still wants us both (he admits to this)and keeps trying new configurations to make that happen. (1st it was keeping me behind xW's back, then it was keeping xW behind my back, now it's keeping both out in the open). Naturally this is never met with happy acceptance from me and so he says I'm unreasonable, damaged from childhood, and not accepting of him as he is. His recently spending more time with her has given him selective amnesia about all she's done to him. It is my hope that he moves with her into the new house he bought (the one he claimed was supposed to be "our nest" for our new life) so I can get away from both of them and maybe, just maybe move on.

 

Frankly, I would be glad for them taking each other off the market to avoid them doing this to anyone else. Let the socipaths destroy each other. Ugh.

 

I know he will pursue me again. I know it. He always has. How do I respond, how do I stay strong. I feel like I need help - a stand-in to tell him to f-off for me cause I can't do it myself.

You respond by being strong. By finding some strength to give him the flick once and for all.

Can you move away? can you break all contact with him so he doesn't know how to contact you or where to find you?

He really sounds toxic for you, they both do. The sooner you are free from them the better you will be.

Good luck ((((hugs to you broken)))))

[pureinheart]

Hi BL...I don't have much to add either because of being so emotionally drained it is not even funny. ExDM said to me when he was MM that he wished he could have us both.

 

I think this has not left his mind because while it is great the he and his ex are talking, they are expecting "M'ed" things out of each other. I'm not caught in his world anymore as I have my own. He can't give me what I need and want, he's not the one.

 

There will be one for you too...just for you

Edited May 3, 2010 by pureinheart

[jj33]

Oh honey Im so sorry. You cant talk to him anymore. Its like the old saying " never teach a pig to sing, it annoys the pig and wastes your time".

 

You keep communicating with him as if he is ever going to take your views on board. Hes not. Hes not listening. He is a manipulator.

 

Everything you say to him just goes into the little computer in his mind and comes out as some form of manipulatoin. Hes gaslighted you so badly that your self esteem is at an all time low.

 

You are putting your children at risk by continuing to see him. Even if they dont see him with his children, they see that their mother is depressed. And maybe they dont know why, or maybe they DO know why and see that you keep going back to him.

 

So if you cant do it for you right now, do it for them. DONT show them that love means going back to someone who makes you miserable and that love = pain.

 

The reason you keep speaking to him is you think something will change. You have given him how many chances? You now have an opinion from a professional counsellor, he has made a vacation with his wife.

 

I can almost guarantee you that if you leave him for good , he will go back to her. That is not a man who was ready to leave his marriage.

 

Hes told you time and again that he wants you both - hes shown you he is h*llbent on keeping things that way.

 

Maybe part of overcoming your past has been being able to assert yourself and stand up for what you want. That is great - but not where he is concerned. Fighting for him and winning him on your terms is not a good way to assert yourself. Because hes not who you thought he was. And you cant change him.

 

So take all that strength and all that assertiveness and use it to get as far away from him as possible.

 

You did the right thing in destroying hte emails. Now YOU cant go back and look at them. The fact that he cant either is just a bonus.

 

But dont take his calls and dont let him in if he comes to your house. Let him know if he does not respect your wishes he will be met with a restraining order.

[fooled once]

He kept calling, and I was correct, he was pissed about the email accounts and that I moved my vacation week so it no longer matches with his. Wasn't real keen on the idea of being in the same vacation town as him (and his ex-wife, who "coincidentally" picked the same week and was staying nearby). He says I'm "overreacting" and my emotional swings are "scary". Sigh. Oh, and he's still mowing his ex's lawn.

 

I really don't think I can ever get through to him because he doesn't "get" that what he's doing in screwed up beyond belief. But I think that's been obvious all along, and certainly by December when he lied to his xW about our enagegement and I found out he took her on vacation behind my back last summer. And he slept over at her house twice in December. (But he'll take a lie detector test to swear he ddn't sleep with her - ha! And he thinks I'm cheating on him with a coworker, so he wans me to take one too (way to deflect responsibility). Puhleez.

 

And I'm still disturbed that years after the fact he still has yet to have a serious conversation with the kids. He just left and they got divorced with no discussion with the kids. For months after the divorce, he didn't even know if the kids knew bc he refused to discuss it. All I know is that I don't want my kids seeing this relationship as any kind of example. That scares me more than anything.

 

I just can't get over how deep something is wrong with me that I have such trouble walking away when I really want and need to.

 

He is so screwed up. I can't believe how many times he has broken your trust, has disrespected you

 

I am more worried about why you keep getting drawn back into this mess with him.

 

1. He's adding to your unhappiness and fears, not helping them. To avoid caving, you have to stop talking to him. He can't play on your fears if you aren't listening to his talk.

 

2. He's making you more insecure about yourself, and is not making your life any better. In fact, he's making it worse. Getting him out of your life will FREE YOU to find a healthy relationship so that you don't end up alone. It is clinging to him that actually will ENSURE you end up alone.

 

Keep reminding yourself of those two things. Continuing to focus on him is counter-productive, and is actually increasing your fears and failures.

 

Excellent advise!

 

Oh honey Im so sorry. You cant talk to him anymore. Its like the old saying " never teach a pig to sing, it annoys the pig and wastes your time".

 

You keep communicating with him as if he is ever going to take your views on board. Hes not. Hes not listening. He is a manipulator.

 

Everything you say to him just goes into the little computer in his mind and comes out as some form of manipulatoin. Hes gaslighted you so badly that your self esteem is at an all time low.

 

You are putting your children at risk by continuing to see him. Even if they dont see him with his children, they see that their mother is depressed. And maybe they dont know why, or maybe they DO know why and see that you keep going back to him.

 

So if you cant do it for you right now, do it for them. DONT show them that love means going back to someone who makes you miserable and that love = pain.

 

The reason you keep speaking to him is you think something will change. You have given him how many chances? You now have an opinion from a professional counsellor, he has made a vacation with his wife.

 

I can almost guarantee you that if you leave him for good , he will go back to her. That is not a man who was ready to leave his marriage.

 

Hes told you time and again that he wants you both - hes shown you he is h*llbent on keeping things that way.

 

Maybe part of overcoming your past has been being able to assert yourself and stand up for what you want. That is great - but not where he is concerned. Fighting for him and winning him on your terms is not a good way to assert yourself. Because hes not who you thought he was. And you cant change him.

 

So take all that strength and all that assertiveness and use it to get as far away from him as possible.

 

You did the right thing in destroying hte emails. Now YOU cant go back and look at them. The fact that he cant either is just a bonus.

 

But dont take his calls and dont let him in if he comes to your house. Let him know if he does not respect your wishes he will be met with a restraining order.

 

Excellent post from JJ. Listen to her. Especially the bolded part.

 

You have got to break free from him once and for all. No more calls, no more emails, no more texts, no more visits. He is so toxic and yet he keeps you involved.

 

Take your power back. Take it away from him. Realize YOU don't need this in your life. Don't worry about what he is doing, who he is with, etc. Focus on fixing you ((hug)) Focus on your kids, show them what love and commitment is. Show them what happiness is. He is so bad for you....and he does nothing but lie to you and hurt you. Please break free from his grasp. Shut the door on this 'relationship' once and for all.

 

You have so much strength down deep in you -- reach for it and use it to help you right now.

 

I wish you nothing but luck in breaking away from this idiot.

[joey66]

Brokenlady - First, hugs to you. I know how much you are suffering. IMO, your case is pretty clear. You need to be rid of this guy. No good can come from it.

 

What I want to know is why it's so hard to do? And I'm not just trying to pick on you. There are many threads on here with more or less the same theme. (Including mine!)

 

He/she treats me like sh*t.

My life is a mess.

I am emotionally drained.

Yet I cannot let it go.

 

It seems so obvious that the relationship is poison, even (especially?) to the person involved. But it's sooo hard to end it. Why is that?

 

Wishing you the best.

[jj33]

Joey (and apologies for the threadjack) its because you had something you thought was "it" and you dont want to accept that you could be so wrong that you could have invested every ounce of yourself and years of your life and it came to nothing. So you hang on to everything you can. Each time you swear them off and they come back full of new hope and promises you say OK I was right, he does love, he does want a life me etc etc....

 

and so the cycle continues.

 

But the fact is love aint enough in these circumstances. Words and actions have to be consistent and this garbage cant continue to happen. This guy is already divorced and he is NOT with the program; never has been. Its all been posturing and manipulatoin. He doesnt see that because he is such a narcissist he only sees it through his justifications and rationalizations of what the truth is.

 

Broken honey, this has to stop. He is NOT repentent never has been and is clear in telling you that he doesnt want what you want. He wants you both .

 

I know its difficult. But you can do it.

 

Lots of love

 

jj

[Brokenlady]

Ok, I need to vent a moment. DM's xW was running her mouth again yesterday about her insane accusation that my youngest child belongs to her xH. My daughter was born a year before the affair even started and looks everything like her brother, and nothing at all like DM. I truly think xW clings to this fantasy because us having a child together would be the only way she can "understand" his decision to not be with her. It seems to soothe her to think that I "trapped" him rather than accept that he doesn't want to be married to her anymore. Within her little circle, I could care less about this rumor, but I swear, if her vicious little delusion gets told to my daughter by anyone, I will drop kick her into next week. Arrrrg!

[Mimolicious]

(Because every other woman would happily accept this duplicity, right??? Please).

 

Wehre you his OW at one point? Sorry, I don't know your dramz?

[donnamaybe]

He says I'm "overreacting" and my emotional swings are "scary".

 

Oh, good gawd! Now THIS just pisses me off! He's trying to lay this on YOU?!

 

You're better off forgetting about him. You don't deserve this crap he's trying to lay at your feet.

 

You'll get stronger day by day, week by week, and soon you won't even remember why you gave a damn.

 

Chin up hon!

[jj33]

Ok, I need to vent a moment. DM's xW was running her mouth again yesterday about her insane accusation that my youngest child belongs to her xH. My daughter was born a year before the affair even started and looks everything like her brother, and nothing at all like DM. I truly think xW clings to this fantasy because us having a child together would be the only way she can "understand" his decision to not be with her. It seems to soothe her to think that I "trapped" him rather than accept that he doesn't want to be married to her anymore. Within her little circle, I could care less about this rumor, but I swear, if her vicious little delusion gets told to my daughter by anyone, I will drop kick her into next week. Arrrrg!

 

 

Oh honey you arent still talking to him are you? He has chosen not to be with her but he hasnt committed himself to you in any real way.

 

He isnt giving you what you need. Have you stopped speaking to him?

 

hes not married anymore. There is no reason for this to be all about HIS needs.

 

You need to set some real boundaries for the relatoinship if there is to be one in the future.

 

Big hugs

[Fieldsofgold]

Don't know what to say. Just sending you a hug and encouragement to be strong. Is moving away possible? Might be good to have a clean start.

 

As to why we can't let go, I think it has something to do with co-dependence and addiction. Just my opinion. And I REALLY wish there was a pill for it. I'd take one!

[Brokenlady]

jj,

Yes, I'm still talking to him. (I know, I know). We're having one of those honeymoon periods where he's really nice to me, super-apologetic, etc. Our counselor set him straight about my supposed "irrational mood swings", and after the temper tanrum he had about not being right, he seemed more reasonable. I guess I am waiting to see how he handles things this week. Something big is happening and he has an opportunity to show me he had changed or that he really hasn't. If I had to put money on it, I'd say he'll opt to handle it badly and **** me over, because historically that's what he's always done. We will see. I'm just gonna sit here with popcorn on the sidelines til then. Cross your fingers for me.

 

I am so tired of getting steamrolled. I am finally starting to feel a bit better with my new antidepressant, and my dose will probably get upped next week. Already I feel less likely for meltdowns and I've been much much better about standing up for myself lately than I ever have been. But I'm not all there yet. Hopefully soon.

 

In other news, people around me say I seem much better than I was 6 months ago. And I just finished my 1st semster of my Master's program. Yay!

[piscis]

Hi BL

I would like to have the correct words for you, I am sorry I do not have them.

I am deeply sorry you are going through this and believe me when I tell you lots of us have been there.

I send you lots of hugs, strenght to go through this.

Do not expect to be fine in one day or one week but concentrate in working one day at a time, take good care of you, and please keep in mind and in your heart that every day that passes by is one day further for you feeling better.

[Brokenlady]

Well the "event" has now been delayed a week (no fault of his - truly). But now there's a new twist. His daughter, who has long had some emotional problems since well before the A, is now begging him to come home again, blaming her father for ruining all their lives and saying she is thinking of suicide. Based on everything I know, it's clear to me that much of her distress is from the way her mentally ill mom continues to emotionally abuse her. DM's therapist told him a year ago that what his xW is doing is extremely abusive. And here we see the effects compounding.

 

I really wish he had taken the kids with him when he left his xW; he could have shielded them from a lot. But his guilt got in the way of his better judgment, and already i see that happening again. I would like to think he'll pursue full custody at this point, but I seriously doubt he will because he's too busy feeling sorry for his xW.

 

TBH this kind of crap scares me about him. Can I expect him to use this same crappy kind of judgment/let's bury our head in the sand technique with my kids? Yikes.

 

My therapist suggested I do a time study for a few days to see how much time I spend each day feeling bad about or because of the realtionship and how much time I feel good about or because of the relationship. I'm sure I know what result I will end up with. Sigh.

[awkward]

DM's therapist told him a year ago that what his xW is doing is extremely abusive. And here we see the effects compounding.

 

I really wish he had taken the kids with him when he left his xW; he could have shielded them from a lot. But his guilt got in the way of his better judgment, and already i see that happening again. I would like to think he'll pursue full custody at this point, but I seriously doubt he will because he's too busy feeling sorry for his xW.

 

Therapists are mandated reporters. There should have been an investigation into this abuse.

 

He definitely should have sought custody if his XW was abusing his children.

 

Are you sure absolutely sure that the children are being abused?

 

ETA: Also, if the daughter is contemplating suicide she needs help now.

Edited May 21, 2010 by awkward

[jj33]

WAKE THE F UP!!!!!!

 

How can you even CONTEMPLATE staying in contact with this man let alone allowing him around your children when he has

 

abused you emotionally

 

let you down a million times

 

caused your kids to see a bad example of a relationship

 

AND THE WORST he lacks the b*lls to keep his children safe from an emotionally abusive wife.

 

YOU NEED TO GET A GRIP QUICK. Do you want to be W number 2 to all this?

 

Do you want your children in the thick of this?

 

This is not just about you and your lovelorn heart. This is about your children.

 

Does your family know all about all this?

 

You need some VERY tough love VERY fast.

 

Stop putting it all on his W. This is HIM. If he were half the man you think he is, he would have made sure his children were safe from harm and done whatever he could to get help for his W.

 

The fact that he hasnt done that is unbelievable.

 

WAKE UP. You are leading yoru children down a very dangerous path. If you cant think of your own well being, then at least think of them.

[jj33]

Honey I hate to say it, but you need some sort of an intervention.

 

You need someone to PULL you out of this.

 

Its not a question of upping your meds so that you dont have a meltdown with him its a question of kicking his sorry azz into next week and then rebuilding your self esteem and your expectations of people and relationships.

 

Maybe you need a new therapist. Someone more proactive.

 

Take good care