An Update

[Brokenlady]

Yesterday was rough. I am really hurt over what he said to me - admitting he is still trying to have it both ways (bc he has trouble with loss, boo-hoo), and that he knows he is and has been toxic for me, but is too selfish to let me go. He said he feels he's made major progress and expects he will eventually break ties with his xw, and that if he can't, he'll let me know. Says he's tired of my "overreactions". I want to choke him. And then I want to choke myself for even speaking to him.

 

I'm feeling tearful again today. Was up most of the night with debilitating nausea. And I have him getting pissy bc I didn't call him back last night and didn't seek him out this morning when he didn't call me as per usual. Sigh. I just find myself not wanting to talk to him. It just reminds me that he will never be who I thought he was and will never do right by me. Our relationship just isn't going to work....at least not for me.

 

So I got my antidepressants doubled again yesterday. Cross your fingers for me ladies. I desperately need the strength to do what I must do here.

[PhoenixRise]

Bentnotbroken is right.

 

Your children see and understand more than you think. But even if they don't understand what is going on, you DO. Why is it ok as long as you can tell yourself the kids don't know when the pain and loss of self esteem are the same regardless of whether they know or not?

 

So he admits in one breath that he is still trying to have it both ways and then in the next breath says he will one day (I guess you should just shut up and suffer in the meantime) be able to completely break with his x-wife and if at some point he decides he can't make the break he will let you know. I guess at that point you will be free to go?

 

You know this is never going to be a healthy relationship for you. If he stopped mowing his ex-wife's lawn tomorrow the dynamics of your relationship would still be unhealthy.

 

Brokenlady, if you ever hope to be un-broken you are going to have to find a way to accept the pain of losing this "man".

[donnamaybe]

What I don't get is you get drugs to help deal with your feelings about him. Then you take more calls. Then you get more drugs. Then you take yet MORE calls, at which time you need even MORE drugs.

 

Stop with the calls, and pretty soon you won't need the drugs.

[Brokenlady]

What I don't get is you get drugs to help deal with your feelings about him. Then you take more calls. Then you get more drugs. Then you take yet MORE calls, at which time you need even MORE drugs.

 

Stop with the calls, and pretty soon you won't need the drugs.

 

The truth is I've been depressed for a long long time, but whatever it is he does to me has forced me to deal with this more aggressively. If I don't, I'll just find a carbon-copy replacement for him anyway. So somehow I have to muster the strength to get away from him, and at this point, I'll take whatever help i can get. It took me well over a decade to leave a bad marriage, I don't want to drag this out that long. The meds are honestly what i hope to be the crutch i need to get away.

[Brokenlady]

Your children see and understand more than you think. But even if they don't understand what is going on, you DO. Why is it ok as long as you can tell yourself the kids don't know when the pain and loss of self esteem are the same regardless of whether they know or not?

 

Because i feel disposable. Something about me feels like I have to be sacrifical to be a good person, a goal i never feel i reach.

 

So he admits in one breath that he is still trying to have it both ways and then in the next breath says he will one day (I guess you should just shut up and suffer in the meantime) be able to completely break with his x-wife and if at some point he decides he can't make the break he will let you know. I guess at that point you will be free to go?

 

Yes, that's pretty much it. He says he wants me to open with him, but then says it causes him too much mental pain to hear about it. He says he feels tremendous guilt about leaving the xW, but not much about what he's done to me because he's with me (I won the "prize"- ha).

 

You know this is never going to be a healthy relationship for you. If he stopped mowing his ex-wife's lawn tomorrow the dynamics of your relationship would still be unhealthy.

 

I know and believe that, but its very hard to accept.

 

Brokenlady, if you ever hope to be un-broken you are going to have to find a way to accept the pain of losing this "man".

 

Yeah, thats the thing....I don't know why it's been so hard for me to get there. But I am trying my hardest to seek the help I need to find the strength to leave for real and for good.

[Brokenlady]

And - I think he knows why I'm trying to gather my strength. He tells me all the time that I don't need medication or therapy or any of that...because it is in his best interest to keep me stuck. He looks down his nose at me for it, also in part because he doesn't want to feel responaible for causing me to crash. How conveinient, for him.

[bentnotbroken]

Because i feel disposable. Something about me feels like I have to be sacrifical to be a good person, a goal i never feel i reach.

 

 

Why you a sacrifice? Jesus is the sacrifice. There is no need to sacrifice what he has already deemed worthy. The price has already been paid. You already have the victory. None of us will ever reach the goal you speak of. All you have to do is realize it and claim it.

[jj33]

Broken you said in an earlier post that you keep on because you want to be there in case pigs fly and he does change.

 

Hes not going to.

 

He has told you he doesnt know if hes going to.

 

He has told you he doesnt feel that guilty about the pain he is causing you, his Ws pain is a higher priority.

 

I understand how shocking it can be to hear these things and to have a delayed reaction. Its far too much for you to process while you are so very depressed.

 

But what would change if you left?

 

You wouldnt have him hurting you all the time.

 

The key to this is you do believe that you need to suffer. You dont believe that being you is enough to warrant the right to be content and free from hurt and humiliation.

 

Basically you believe that hurt is love and that its ok for those who love you to hurt you, badly, so long as you know that they love you because if you give that up you may have noone who loves you.

 

You desparately need a new therapist. Someone who will wholeheartedly support you in leaving.

 

You need to face your worst fear and be alone until you figure out that you are worthy of real true love that doesnt involve this kind of hurt.

 

My thoughts are with you

[PhoenixRise]

And - I think he knows why I'm trying to gather my strength. He tells me all the time that I don't need medication or therapy or any of that...because it is in his best interest to keep me stuck. He looks down his nose at me for it, also in part because he doesn't want to feel responaible for causing me to crash. How conveinient, for him.

 

 

I agree with you that he would prefer for you to stay stuck.

 

I also think deep down, on some level, you believe it is in your interest to stay stuck.

 

Brokenlady, I don't know if increased antidepressants is going to help you to do something you haven't decided to do.

 

I think no matter how much medication you take, nothing will change until you decide you are done and until you truly give up hope of happily ever after with him.

 

I think you are afraid that after you give up and move on, he will get his shi* together and you will have missed out on the better man that he becomes.

 

This kind of thinking is a black hole that will swallow you up and keep you trapped in this dysfunctional R

 

Because Brokenlady he is not going to change. Why should he when he has you to blame for his issues if you stay, and his wife to blame if you go. The kind of transformation he would need to make to make him a man worth having would require him to be completely alone for a long time with plenty of time for self reflection and IC.

[Brokenlady]

Basically you believe that hurt is love and that its ok for those who love you to hurt you, badly, so long as you know that they love you because if you give that up you may have noone who loves you.

 

Guilty as charged. He serves two purposes - one to make me feel loved; and the other is to confirm the idea that I'm unloveable.

 

You desparately need a new therapist. Someone who will wholeheartedly support you in leaving.

 

JJ, I don't doubt that she is at least as frustrated with me as you are. I am frustrated with me. I keep banging my head against the same wall hoping for a different result. She is very supportive, but it isn't enough. She isn't there when I'm in bed wanting to die. No one is. I have even taken on 2 more therapists (our couples therapist - who urges me to get away from him, and my psychiatrist).

 

And I struggled a long long time without going to medication, but now I feel i have no choice. I need the crutch, badly. I just can't stand on my own, and apparently....all I have is me. (family and friends are far away geographically). I need all the help I can get.

[Brokenlady]

I agree with you that he would prefer for you to stay stuck.

 

I also think deep down, on some level, you believe it is in your interest to stay stuck.

 

I think no matter how much medication you take, nothing will change until you decide you are done and until you truly give up hope of happily ever after with him.

 

I think you are afraid that after you give up and move on, he will get his shi* together and you will have missed out on the better man that he becomes.

 

 

Very very astute. There is definitely a sense that this couldn't possibly all be for nothing, could it? It is sometimes easier to just wish on the star than to give up and have to grieve all that I've lost because of him and my invesment in him. That grief, when I glimpse at it, is overwhelming.

 

And he dangles that last thought all the time- about how I will regret it when I see him with someone else, finally all healed. He makes sure that I know that I'm replaceable on one hand and that he'd miss me terribly on the other; it's a twisted way of encouraging me to sacrifice my happiness for him so that he doesn't have to give up anything more (that poor, poor martyr).

[donnamaybe]

And he dangles that last thought all the time- about how I will regret it when I see him with someone else, finally all healed. He makes sure that I know that I'm replaceable on one hand and that he'd miss me terribly on the other; it's a twisted way of encouraging me to sacrifice my happiness for him so that he doesn't have to give up anything more (that poor, poor martyr).

 

What a complete a55!

 

Oh, shoot, I wish I could just hug all the bad thoughts of yourself RIGHT OUT OF YOU!!!!

[PhoenixRise]

Very very astute. There is definitely a sense that this couldn't possibly all be for nothing, could it? It is sometimes easier to just wish on the star than to give up and have to grieve all that I've lost because of him and my invesment in him. That grief, when I glimpse at it, is overwhelming.

 

And he dangles that last thought all the time- about how I will regret it when I see him with someone else, finally all healed. He makes sure that I know that I'm replaceable on one hand and that he'd miss me terribly on the other; it's a twisted way of encouraging me to sacrifice my happiness for him so that he doesn't have to give up anything more (that poor, poor martyr).

 

 

He assumes that you will still be pining over him at that point. Interesting that he seems to know that for you to be interested in him you must be and remain broken. And he doesn't see any circumstance where you would not want him.

 

One of the most valuable lessons I learned from my H's infidelity is that no significant other should EVER think the relationship is unconditional. Can love be unconditional...yes...relationships..never.

 

Where is your bottom line Brokenlady? Do you even have one? What else would he have to do to make you say enough?

 

You can sink more and more of yourself into this, it will just mean there is more and more of yourself that you will gamble and lose. You will never get a return on this investment, no matter how much you sink into it.

 

AND do your friends and family know about this relationship and what you are going through?

[PhoenixRise]

What a complete a55!

 

Oh, shoot, I wish I could just hug all the bad thoughts of yourself RIGHT OUT OF YOU!!!!

 

 

He is a predator.

[donnamaybe]

He is a predator.

And he's found the perfect mark. Someone who seems to be a gentle, kind hearted woman who doesn't have the strength and self assurance to dump him.

 

Oh, I hope you find it within yourself soon, BL.

[Brokenlady]

He assumes that you will still be pining over him at that point. Interesting that he seems to know that for you to be interested in him you must be and remain broken.

 

Yes, I think this is very true. He purposely pushes exactly the buttons he knows I am vulnerable for.

 

And he doesn't see any circumstance where you would not want him.

 

Actually, he's even more insecure than i am. He's constantly accusing me of cheating on him. He knows that if I got to a point where I met someone else, he'd be long gone - he does know on some level how awful he's been to me. But of course, I won't sink to his level.

 

AND do your friends and family know about this relationship and what you are going through?

 

I don't really discuss it with my friends anymore, I gues I feel they are sick of hearing it. Heck, I am sick of living it. My sister knows. Bottom line- everyone around me hates him. They want me away from him and know he's toxic, as do I.

[jj33]

Im not frustrated with you just worried for you.

 

You do need the meds but you also need to leave him.

 

Think about it. What is the worst that can happen? He wont be able to hurt you anymore.

 

I know your mind is telling you that the worst that can happen is that he is going to shape up and he will end up with someone else because you gave up on him.

 

That is NOT true. Yes he may end up with someone else but she will get NO more than what you got.

 

If he REALLY shapes up (and that could be years from now if ever) then he will come back totally apologetic for all the pain and hurt he has caused you.

 

No good comes from staying with him. You owe it to yourself and your family to leave him.

 

Post here 24 hours a day. Do whatever you need to do so long as you free yourself and your children from this monster.

[MorningCoffee]

Can love be unconditional...yes...relationships..never.

 

Excellent point, that states succinctly the clear need for boundaries and standards around what is and is not acceptable. Thank you.

[White Flower]

So - for the millionth time, I am done with this. Here's hoping the quadrupled dose of antidepressants I'm now on finally works so he can't suck me back in with fear. I don't know why I set myself up for another round of this crap. Desperation? Fear? Je ne sais quoi.

 

The thing is, I can't keep doing this. It's killing me, quickly. I have deteriorated more in these last two years than in the worst periods of abuse in my childhood. So how do I resist the urge to cave to the fears he knows to play on? How do I find a way to feel secure that I'll be ok without him and not alone the rest of my life? (In many ways I fear my participation in the affair with him is something I'll never live down). Any thoughts?

Brokenlady, do you have any threads about your childhood abuse? Are there any correlations between what you suffered then and what you suffer now? I do believe that some people unwittingly seek partners that will help us work out the stuff that we didn't work out in our childhood. It would help me to read up a little about you before I make any suggestions.

[fooled once]

Guilty as charged. He serves two purposes - one to make me feel loved; and the other is to confirm the idea that I'm unloveable.

 

JJ, I don't doubt that she is at least as frustrated with me as you are. I am frustrated with me. I keep banging my head against the same wall hoping for a different result. She is very supportive, but it isn't enough. She isn't there when I'm in bed wanting to die. No one is. I have even taken on 2 more therapists (our couples therapist - who urges me to get away from him, and my psychiatrist).

 

And I struggled a long long time without going to medication, but now I feel i have no choice. I need the crutch, badly. I just can't stand on my own, and apparently....all I have is me. (family and friends are far away geographically). I need all the help I can get.

 

Yes you can!! Right now, you just don't want to ((hug)) because it is 'easier' to stay in this unhealthy, emotionally abusive relationship than to be on your own. He is some sick safety net for you.

 

And you do know the definition of insanity right -- doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results.

 

Staying with him and participating (because that is what you are doing by allowing him to continue to hurt you) is the easier method for you right now.

 

And whether you want to believe it or not, you are showing your children this unhealthy relationship and trying to pass it off as a good example of a real true healthy relationship. Do you have a daughter? What would you say to her if she were in your shoes??

 

((hug))

[jthorne]

And he dangles that last thought all the time- about how I will regret it when I see him with someone else, finally all healed.

I'm calling bullspit on that one. IF there was ever another person, they'd have to deal with the same exact shyt you are. That is IF there was ever another person. Do you think there's a chance that if you leave, he'll just go back to his wife? I see a pretty good chance of that. He'll go back, then pretty soon find himself another OW. It's the path of least resistance for lazy worthless basturds like him.

 

No matter how hard you try, you can't get blood out of a stone.

 

Actually, he is not the problem, he's the symptom. You are so afraid of being alone, you are paralyzed. Once you get over your fear of being alone, dumping him will be much easier. I wish we could help you with that.

Edited May 27, 2010 by jthorne

[jj33]

Broken I know how you feel. You know how long I held out hope in my heart. Hope time energy anxiety and tears that xMM never ever deserved.

 

Each time he dangled things in front of me I told him to eff off but in my heart, oh in my heart I believed that one day he would see the light. If I could only be calm, if I could only be supportive, if I could only not rise to the bait of his emotionally abusive behavior.

 

I made a million excuses for him. he is emotionally reserved, he loves me and is doing the best he can in the situation. On and on and on.

 

Some of the things that he said are on the level (and worse) than the way this man has treated you (although different as he never left his wife). And yet I believed.

 

I wasnt on LS when I was with him or during the first year after the A was over so none of that is posted here anywhere. And i am far too ashamed of what I put up with to repeat it (that and the fact that the boards are public) .

 

But it was not nice. And yet I held out hope in my heart. For the same reasons you do. This man loves me. I know that. He still loves me. Sent me 7 emails yesterday (lucky me eh?)

 

But it doesnt matter. Because finally finally something happened that set off a lightbulb. I finally "got it". that no matter how much he may love me. He is abusive. He may not mean to be abusive but he is.

 

And by staying with him during the A and then forgiving his behavior a trilloin times thereafter, I condoned it. So he believes that no matter how he behaves towards me, it will always be OK. That the love is SO unconditional on my part that his needs are paramount and I will go along withi anything.

 

So I know where you are. I was there for the same reasons. I believed that finally there was someone who understood me and loved me and that if I didnt hang on to that (even from a distance hoping someday he would make a move) that noone else would ever love me. And that this was as good as it would ever be.

 

Now there were many many good times. And I dont doubt that he loves me.

 

But it doesnt matter. Because abusive love is not something you stick around for as an adult. Children unfortunately dont have a choice. They are in the custody of their parents.

 

But as adults we can choose something different. And being strong doesnt mean putting up with it and standing up for yourself until they change.

 

Being strong and asserting yourself means saying I am not going to let you hurt me anymore and slamming the door in his face, locking it and never ever letting him near you or your children again.

 

I know it feels like you are "so close". But you arent. You are "so close" to a lifetime of misery.

 

I dont know what anyone can say to help you find it in yourself to put you first. But you must.

 

Big hugs

 

jj

[torranceshipman]

HE IS A DOUCHE. In 10 or 20 years time he will STILL BE A DOUCHE. This is who he is, period. He can dangle all he wants, pretend all he wants that if you leave he'll get 'fixed' and you'll lose out. What a load of utter crap. THIS, what you are seeing, is all he is capable of. All he can be. Period. So this is it. Nothing more. LEAVE this man because he is a loser and he is also hurting you horribly.

[Brokenlady]

Last night he went grocery shopping for his xW because she was "too sick". This morning, she called him at 5:30 am to barf into the phone and report she was still sick. Recently she left another message about wanting him to come take care of her and possibly take her to the ER. And I'll bet you, he'll take her dramatic a$$ to the ER. I told him: "you know, she will never ever stop trying to bait you into playing hubby". He said that "eventually" his actions would show her to stop that. Eventually!! Whatever.

 

I haven't told him i loved him for the last 2 days because i haven't frankly been feeling it. He hasn't said it either. Today, he just did at the end of the phone call and I just hung up. He's still talking to me about getting a key to the new house and selling my house. All I say right now is uh-huh. I feel like I won't be able to avoid ending things tonight.

 

However, I promised I'd fix his computer at his office and the software won't be in for a few days. Do I wait? It'd be terribly awkward if I tell him I don't want to be with him anymore and then have to fix his system and show him how to use it. Or should I just give him the software he purchased and let him deal with it?

 

And as an aside, it came to my attention last night that I missed an excellent opportunity because of my protracted toxic relationship. The good news is that it says that someone else who knows me well thought I was worth being with (back when he was available). The bad news... he's not available anymore. But maybe that's a good thing. I need some time for myself. At least I know the possibility exists now that I can do better.

[bentnotbroken]

You just aren't willing to look at the reality are you? Sad. You are willing to loose yourself for ...what exactly?