An Update

[awkward]

 

TBH this kind of crap scares me about him. Can I expect him to use this same crappy kind of judgment/let's bury our head in the sand technique with my kids? Yikes.

 

I'd be scared too. Is there any chance that he is using the suicidal daughter as a card to move back home?

 

I just can't imagine a father not acting on this information. The abuse and the potential suicide.

[donnamaybe]

Well the "event" has now been delayed a week (no fault of his - truly). But now there's a new twist. His daughter, who has long had some emotional problems since well before the A, is now begging him to come home again, blaming her father for ruining all their lives and saying she is thinking of suicide. Based on everything I know, it's clear to me that much of her distress is from the way her mentally ill mom continues to emotionally abuse her. DM's therapist told him a year ago that what his xW is doing is extremely abusive. And here we see the effects compounding.

 

Are you sure it's the W? I think it could be because of a father who would tell someone he professes to care about that they are "overreacting" and their emotional swings are "scary."

[Hazyhead]

BL, it worries me that you are still being emotionally wrestled to the ground by this man; not just you in fact, but your children too. I have never known JJ to talk this desperately on these forums whilst I've been here... this is how concerning your situation is.

 

You deserve a man who is going to prioritise you, not drive you to the point of needing to be on anti-depressants to cope with the stress that he brings. Yes, I know his xW is a part of it but he allows her to be so and whilst you are there to catch him he will continue to allow to her be so. It seems there is nobody around you that isn't being brought down by the stress of the situation. How much longer will you and your kids be there to absorb this?

 

Please, please take care of you and your kids... not him.

[bittersweet memories]

Well the "event" has now been delayed a week (no fault of his - truly). But now there's a new twist. His daughter, who has long had some emotional problems since well before the A, is now begging him to come home again, blaming her father for ruining all their lives and saying she is thinking of suicide. Based on everything I know, it's clear to me that much of her distress is from the way her mentally ill mom continues to emotionally abuse her. DM's therapist told him a year ago that what his xW is doing is extremely abusive. And here we see the effects compounding.

 

I really wish he had taken the kids with him when he left his xW; he could have shielded them from a lot. But his guilt got in the way of his better judgment, and already i see that happening again. I would like to think he'll pursue full custody at this point, but I seriously doubt he will because he's too busy feeling sorry for his xW.

 

TBH this kind of crap scares me about him. Can I expect him to use this same crappy kind of judgment/let's bury our head in the sand technique with my kids? Yikes.

 

My therapist suggested I do a time study for a few days to see how much time I spend each day feeling bad about or because of the realtionship and how much time I feel good about or because of the relationship. I'm sure I know what result I will end up with. Sigh.

 

 

Oh Please!!!!! Blame blame the xw...metal illness blah blah blah. What does this say about you? You are no better than she thats for sure. After all the crap this creep has put you through, you are STILL there. ..My goodness get a new therapist..

[bittersweet memories]

I'd be scared too. Is there any chance that he is using the suicidal daughter as a card to move back home?

 

I just can't imagine a father not acting on this information. The abuse and the potential suicide.

 

 

BINGO!!! What's even more sad is Brokenlady is still buying his crap...

Edited May 21, 2010 by bittersweet memories

[NoIDidn't]

BL

 

Honey

 

Sweetheart

 

Please stop talking to him.

 

This "honeymoon period" of him being "super apologetic" is all a part of the ABUSE CYCLE.

 

You need OUT of this R, not counselling for how to accept less than you want and need.

 

You need him AWAY from you FOREVER, not until he learns how to listen.

 

HE is the ABUSER. Upping your meds is only going to mask and cover the real issue - your unhappiness and fears of what it means to truly end it with this guy.

 

Please leave him alone. He is bad news for you. If he wants his XW back, and she wants him - let them have each other. If they are both abusive, get out because IT WILL ONLY GET WORST FOR YOU to try to make sense of it all while staying around.

[Brokenlady]

I'm not going to detail and defend myself and his wife's history of abuse in the interest of maintain some shred of pseudoanonymity. Take my word for it or don't. *shrugs*

 

No, he's not talking about going back to his W. This is not the excuse. I really don't think he ever will go back to her. But I also don't think he'll ever really cut the cord. Another huge argument tonight to that effect. Our therapist says "nothing has really changed" as far as the dynmanic with his and xW. She whines, he resuces, she misinterprets and gets all mad when he doesn't come back, then he feels guilt, and the cycle repeats. Nowhere do my feelings matter. And i am sick of how everything under the sun he does for her is supposedly "for the kids". Its bull.

 

I KNOW he's never going to change, never going to "get" it. The truth to the matter is that he and I have COMPLETELY different concepts about what divorce should look like. His ideal has no resemblance to mine. Neither of us will budge. The realtionship cannot and will not work because we are simply incompatible. Essentially, he and I have the same problem. We cannot let go of a relationship that has not and will never meet our needs (him with hix XW, and me with him).

 

Right now I'm pretty sure he's mowing her lawn bc he's rejecting my calls. While I'm sure thats all he's doing, I want someone who is MY partner, and am sick of drowing by myself while he rescues her all the time.

[jthorne]

I'm not trying to be a smartazz, but he wouldn't be rejecting your calls if you weren't calling him in the first place.

 

You know you two are incompatible. It's time (no, past time) to let him go.

[NoIDidn't]

Well, I hope you consider truly letting this R go, because it is never going to be what you want it to be.

 

Regardless of his W's abusive history, this R isn't what you want. Is not going to become what you want. You will likely always be unhappy about his actions towards his previous family/R and he will likely always tell you to get over it.

[donnamaybe]

I'm not going to detail and defend myself and his wife's history of abuse in the interest of maintain some shred of pseudoanonymity. Take my word for it or don't. *shrugs*

 

The real question is, whose word are YOU taking for it?

[jj33]

It does not matter whether he is going back to her.

 

He does not and has not appreciated how much he is hurting you by the way he is interacting with his wife.

 

At this rate it seems he will NEVER understand.

 

Honey you have to accept that he is not who you thought he was.

 

I recently had to accept that about xMM. Although the A is long over, I continued to excuse his past behavior.

 

Finally I understood his bad behavior was NOT a mistake. It was NOT understandable given his "circumstances" and it was NOT excusable or something that would have been different if he left.

 

People who lack empathy lack empathy.

 

More important people who dont attend to your needs particualrly while purporting to be engaged to you are never going go.

 

This is as good as it is EVER going to get.

 

WHY does not matter.

 

What matters is that you and your life are more valuable than being with him.

 

You dont want to accept that you wasted all this time on a man who wasnt worth it. You dont want to accept that your judgement of him may have been wrong.

 

You are not alone in this. It happens to many many people including me.

 

But you MUST get away from this man.

 

I think you need a new therapist ASAP.

 

Take good care

[Fieldsofgold]

Just sending you some moral support this morning, and a prayer that you will have the strength you need, and that you will find peace.

[Brokenlady]

Well, I hope you consider truly letting this R go, because it is never going to be what you want it to be.

 

Regardless of his W's abusive history, this R isn't what you want. Is not going to become what you want. You will likely always be unhappy about his actions towards his previous family/R and he will likely always tell you to get over it.

 

You're totally right. This relationship just isn't meeting my needs. If he hadn't broken my trust a billion times, maybe it could have been, but that's a ship long sailed away. I guess I wonder (because he constantly implies so) if I am really being unreasonable. If he keeps mowing her lawn but is committed to me, so what? Should I just "get over it"? I just think I'm never going to be comfortable with the kinds of things he does to alleviate his guilt with her because he's betrayed me over it more than a few times. It's like an alcoholic asking me to be cool with taking casual drinks after spending years wreaking a path of destruction with overuse.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter if I "shouldn't" be upset or not, because I simply am. But-- it makes a difference to me because I wouldn't want to carry unreasonable expectations forward in a future relationship if the problem is really me. I hate that he makes me doubt myself.

[Fieldsofgold]

I copied this down a couple of weeks ago from another thread - don't know where, because it helped me. Maybe it will help you, too.

 

"The more I give him air time, the more he bends my mind to "understand" HIM, sympathize with HIM. OTOH, if he even cares enough to try to understand me and sympathize, it is so shallow it is only lip service."*

 

In the future, if you are worried you are having unreasonable expectations, get IC, or talk it over with a minister, a friend, or here.

 

My guess is that you are under-expecting and "settling."

[NoIDidn't]

You're totally right. This relationship just isn't meeting my needs. If he hadn't broken my trust a billion times, maybe it could have been, but that's a ship long sailed away. I guess I wonder (because he constantly implies so) if I am really being unreasonable. If he keeps mowing her lawn but is committed to me, so what? Should I just "get over it"? I just think I'm never going to be comfortable with the kinds of things he does to alleviate his guilt with her because he's betrayed me over it more than a few times. It's like an alcoholic asking me to be cool with taking casual drinks after spending years wreaking a path of destruction with overuse.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter if I "shouldn't" be upset or not, because I simply am. But-- it makes a difference to me because I wouldn't want to carry unreasonable expectations forward in a future relationship if the problem is really me. I hate that he makes me doubt myself.

 

You aren't being unreasonable, though. I hate that he makes you doubt yourself as well.

 

The time that he is spending doing something unneccessary for her continues to prove that his guilt towards her is greater than his compassion towards you.

 

I don't think you will ever get over it. And I hate to hear you speaking about upping meds to deal with it. No one should ever have to medicate themselves to stay in a R.

[PhoenixRise]

This is what gaslighting does.

 

It makes you doubt yourself.

It makes you doubt reality.

It makes you twist yourself into a pretzel to fit someone else's version of reality.

It makes you think you are crazy if you don't agree with him.

 

 

Brokenlady you have been struggling with this for so long. To happily stay in this relationship you will have to erase yourself completely. I see your posts and I know you know this.

 

Why are you more invested in him than you are in you?

[jj33]

As the others said, your needs are totally reasonable.

 

You dont need his agreement to satisfy your own needs or to expect your needs to be met.

 

He is not the arbiter of your life or your happiness unless you let him be.

 

Day by day he is eating away at your sense of self, your sense of self preservation.

 

And you arent even married yet. This is a glimpse of your future.

 

You can overcome your past. You can stand up for yourself.

 

I sense that because your needs have not been met in other relatoinships you feel like you are so close that if you let go, noone will ever meet your needs and you will find yourself alone because noone will ever be there for you in the way you need them to.

 

Its not true. He just isnt the guy.

 

Sweetie you need to break up with him. Spend some time in counseling (with a NEW counselor) and take some time for you as scary as that is.

 

As much as you want this its so so bad for you. And I promise there is something better out there once you regain your sense of yourself. You are a wonderful wonderful person and there are many men out there who would be lucky and thankful to have a wonderful woman like you in their lives and would treat you with the attentiveness and respect and love that you deserve.

 

But you have to get away from him first. So that you can start seeing yourself clearly again.

You're totally right. This relationship just isn't meeting my needs. If he hadn't broken my trust a billion times, maybe it could have been, but that's a ship long sailed away. I guess I wonder (because he constantly implies so) if I am really being unreasonable. If he keeps mowing her lawn but is committed to me, so what? Should I just "get over it"? I just think I'm never going to be comfortable with the kinds of things he does to alleviate his guilt with her because he's betrayed me over it more than a few times. It's like an alcoholic asking me to be cool with taking casual drinks after spending years wreaking a path of destruction with overuse.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter if I "shouldn't" be upset or not, because I simply am. But-- it makes a difference to me because I wouldn't want to carry unreasonable expectations forward in a future relationship if the problem is really me. I hate that he makes me doubt myself.

[OWoman]

If he keeps mowing her lawn but is committed to me, so what?

 

BTDT. My 1st H did the same for his xW - she was one of those helpless women who would live in the darkness rather than work out how to change a lightbulb. Because he didn't want their kid exposed to that level of dysfunction, he'd be over there all the time, fixing things, sorting things, making the shambles into a house again.

 

In part, it was her clinging - she still wanted to maintain the veneer of an intact family, and what better way to do it? In part, it was his guilt - she'd Dd him after an A with one of her students. And, in part, it carried on as long as it did because I was "reasonable" about it - I saw sense in his argument that he was maintaining the market value of a house he still jointly owned, rather than letting her wreck it; and of course I didn't want his kid to suffer from her mother's pathology any more than she had to.

 

And then... one day I had enough. We had moved to another town 50km away, and he was STILL driving out there every couple of days... and I flipped! I told him it was unacceptable - he was keeping his xW dependent and infantalised; if he was worried about the house, he should draw up a legal agreement obliging her to take appropriate care of it and - failing that - to pay him out for the loss of value on resale; or - sell the house. She can find somewhere else to live that she can manage. And, if he was worried about her ability to maintain a home for the kid - take the kid. She was with us 50% of the time anyway, we could just keep her full time (with visitation for the xW) until the xW could prove she was capable of parenting again. It wasn't healthy for the kid - she was happy and normal with us, but when she was with her mother she was having nightmares and all kids of weird phobias, and was in therapy (a pre-schooler!) as a result. Something wasn't right.

 

Reluctantly, he agreed. He phoned his xW and told her he wouldn't be coming out anymore - he said, he had his new family (I was pregnant at the time) to consider, and he put to her the options around the house (legal agreement vs selling up) and the child. She didn't like it, but did agree to put the house on the market, sent the child to us full-time, and actually moved on enough to start a serious R which later morphed into a M. If my xH had kept on mowing her lawn, changing her lightbulbs and unblocking her drains, they'd all still be where they were....

 

BL you really don't need to be part of that pathology. You owe it to yourself to live a happy, NORMAL life, not one where you're constantly questioning your own sanity and reasonableness. If he's not able or willing to shape up - then move on. IF he manages to fix himself, then you can consider taking him back - but you don't need him while he's trying to make his brokenness YOUR problem.

 

(((((hugs)))))

[Brokenlady]

I sense that because your needs have not been met in other relatoinships you feel like you are so close that if you let go, noone will ever meet your needs and you will find yourself alone because noone will ever be there for you in the way you need them to.

 

 

BINGO. That's exactly it.

[Brokenlady]

I don't think you will ever get over it. And I hate to hear you speaking about upping meds to deal with it. No one should ever have to medicate themselves to stay in a R.

 

I'm not upping my meds to stay in the relationship, I'm actually doing it to find the strength to get out. I can't do it on my own. I'm still having meltdowns, and am generally unhappy and insecure as a person. As bad as I felt with my xH, it was never like this.

 

DM admitted this morning that he's still sort of trying to have both worlds because he can't cope with the loss. It is heartbreaking.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Brokenlady

[Brokenlady]

 

Reluctantly, he agreed. He phoned his xW and told her he wouldn't be coming out anymore - he said, he had his new family (I was pregnant at the time) to consider, and he put to her the options around the house (legal agreement vs selling up) and the child. She didn't like it, but did agree to put the house on the market, sent the child to us full-time, and actually moved on enough to start a serious R which later morphed into a M. If my xH had kept on mowing her lawn, changing her lightbulbs and unblocking her drains, they'd all still be where they were....

 

BL you really don't need to be part of that pathology. You owe it to yourself to live a happy, NORMAL life, not one where you're constantly questioning your own sanity and reasonableness. If he's not able or willing to shape up - then move on. IF he manages to fix himself, then you can consider taking him back - but you don't need him while he's trying to make his brokenness YOUR probem.

 

(((((hugs)))))

 

Well, that's the thing. He has NO hesitation to keep doing that stuff knowing that it hurts me, and keeps her dependent. I don't know whether or not he will change in the future. He seems to think he can evolve over time. But - what I know for sure is that I'm getting hurt and my needs aren't being met right now. Is it going to be worth the wait, sacrificing not getting my needs met as I have already been doing for many years now already? He is happy. His needs are getting met, and the unfairness of that irks me more and more over time.

 

There is some reason that I want him to make the decision to say - hey, I'm not going to change and I know I'm hurting you so I will sacrifice my happiness and let you go. I guess because then I won't wonder if I should have just waited even longer. I can't seem to take responsibility for myself in this regard. I feel so powerless, and I know it's mostly cause I refuse to take the only power I have (but if i could only fix him instead!).

[bentnotbroken]

This is what gaslighting does.

 

It makes you doubt yourself.

It makes you doubt reality.

It makes you twist yourself into a pretzel to fit someone else's version of reality.

It makes you think you are crazy if you don't agree with him.

 

 

Brokenlady you have been struggling with this for so long. To happily stay in this relationship you will have to erase yourself completely. I see your posts and I know you know this.

 

Why are you more invested in him than you are in you?

 

 

Yes, this is gas lighting at it's best(worst). He is good. He has done it to his wife and you are next on the list. If you won't save yourself, who else should love you enough to do it? Your children should mean more to you than anything in this world....what are you doing to them by allowing this to go on?

[Brokenlady]

Yes, this is gas lighting at it's best(worst). He is good. He has done it to his wife and you are next on the list. If you won't save yourself, who else should love you enough to do it? Your children should mean more to you than anything in this world....what are you doing to them by allowing this to go on?

 

I guess I look at it as only hurting me. Right now my kids aren't aware of what's going on. I try my best to shield them from all of it. Very recently they have become aware that he has hurt my feelings on occasion. But I am concerned about the example it will set once they become aware that he continually hurts my feelings and I continually take him back. Right now, I feel secure that they are mostly oblivious. If I believed they were being affected, it'd be easier for me to leave - I guess I don't mind sacrificing myself as much. part of that whole worthlessness thing.

[bentnotbroken]

I guess I look at it as only hurting me. Right now my kids aren't aware of what's going on. I try my best to shield them from all of it. Very recently they have become aware that he has hurt my feelings on occasion. But I am concerned about the example it will set once they become aware that he continually hurts my feelings and I continually take him back. Right now, I feel secure that they are mostly oblivious. If I believed they were being affected, it'd be easier for me to leave - I guess I don't mind sacrificing myself as much. part of that whole worthlessness thing.

 

 

Take those damn horse blinders off. :mad:Anything that affects the parent affects the child whether they know what it is or not. Children are very intuitive about emotions. You aren't shielding them from as much as you think. And with maturity comes realization....of how you allow yourself to be treated. Is that a legacy you are trying to pass on?

[stillafool]

 

So how do I resist the urge to cave to the fears he knows to play on? How do I find a way to feel secure that I'll be ok without him and not alone the rest of my life? (In many ways I fear my participation in the affair with him is something I'll never live down). Any thoughts?

 

 

I think you need to go complete NC with this guy. That is the only way you are going to be able to move on. No more communication. Change all your contact information and stick with it.