Can women and men be "friends"?

[OFGnomore]

Obviously there are no absolutes, but from my experience, this is playing with fire. Friendship/confidante is who my whole A got started. Revealing, sharing, getting close then once the emotional hooks are in it's hard to break free.

 

Since the disclosure, colleagues have approached me for friendship and sometimes you want to meet for coffee to discuss business. But I have a whole new awareness/paranoia antennae that I sprouted since my A. The naivete is gone. And I'm always thinking does this guy want more, my neighbor want more, is the pastor checking me out, etc. Gone are the co-ed days when you could sit in a Starbucks and wax on poetically about life, love and whatever. For me this desire has never really left me, but I found out the hard way I have to channel it appropriately. Journaling, LS, blogging, thru my H and girlfriends.

 

So back to my original question, can married people be friends with the opposite sex or is it just too risky?

Edited May 5, 2010 by OFGnomore

[Owl]

I think that people in a committed relationship can be acquaintances and maybe very casual friends with members of the opposite sex/people that they could theoretically be attracted to.

 

I don't believe that it's healthy for a committed person to be close/best friends with an opposite sex friend.

 

That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Spark1111]

Well, IMO, as jaded as it may be now, I think the only friends a marriage can sustain must be friends that are known or introduced to both husband and wife.

 

I share everything now, every encounter with my spouse as he does also. Most of it involves our work day and the people we speak to and associate with.

 

His affair was with a work colleague.

 

So, while I do believe it is possible to have friends, I also NOW notice how quickly people committed to their marriage introduce their spouse into the conversation at work.

 

And I think that is smart to do. It reveals to the member of the opposite sex that not only are they married, they have just communicated a boundary.

 

I had never noticed this before.

 

I read that if any opposite sex friend or colleague starts to complain of their primary relationship, the only proper response is..."I know a good counselor. Would you like their number?"

 

Because that conversation is designed to cross a boundary....with you!

[OFGnomore]

I think that people in a committed relationship can be acquaintances and maybe very casual friends with members of the opposite sex/people that they could theoretically be attracted to.

 

I don't believe that it's healthy for a committed person to be close/best friends with an opposite sex friend.

 

That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

How would you define acquaintances or casual friends? For example, xMM talked about "someone he stayed in touch with" that he trained for a marathon with. Whhhooaa red flag went off, (xMM must not be a first timer regardless of what he said), I've trained and ran a marathon and that's a whole lot of time and commitment to spend with someone who is not your spouse. Gut instinct tells me, "GET OUT OF DODGE" on that one.

[OFGnomore]

Well, IMO, as jaded as it may be now, I think the only friends a marriage can sustain must be friends that are known or introduced to both husband and wife.

 

I share everything now, every encounter with my spouse as he does also. Most of it involves our work day and the people we speak to and associate with.

 

His affair was with a work colleague.

 

So, while I do believe it is possible to have friends, I also NOW notice how quickly people committed to their marriage introduce their spouse into the conversation at work.

 

And I think that is smart to do. It reveals to the member of the opposite sex that not only are they married, they have just communicated a boundary.

 

I had never noticed this before.

 

I read that if any opposite sex friend or colleague starts to complain of their primary relationship, the only proper response is..."I know a good counselor. Would you like their number?"

 

Because that conversation is designed to cross a boundary....with you!

 

B-I-N-G-O, man did I need a good mamma to share "how to handle men" with me. Again, I know and do this now, talk about my H right away. My favorite polite line is, "my husband would love to join us...let me check his schedule..."

[OFGnomore]

The biggest leftover baggage from my childhood was the inability to draw boundaries with people. It's part my nature too, I'm an inclusive person. But I learned that having boundaries doesn't mean you're a snob or unkind, it means being self valuing. Still feel pretty foolish when I look back and see how easily I let the line be crossed. Nobody likes to feel like a chump, but boy was I one.

[Star727]

I have male friends that I talk to occassionally and for reasons. I'm a bowler and there are guys on my team, we talk about bowling and the league. My WH is on the same team so I always tell him "so and so called and we talked about such and such".

 

My WH has maintained a secret friendship with a female coworker of ours that has been going on for at least 10 years and I found out 2 years ago and after several broken NC's and threatening divorce action, he finally got the hint that what was going on was totally inappropriate and disrespectful to me.

 

Yes he constantly claims it was just platonic, they never had sex, he doesnt want a divorce, he loves me - but they've been with each other so long that they could not or would not permanently stop the contact. I have outed them to our coworkers, saw an attorney and got paperwork that I made sure he saw so he'd know I mean business. He even went so far as to get secret prepaid cell phones. Everytime I find one, he'd get another one. I guess he gave up on that now cause either he's hiding it better, or he stopped using them.

 

They talked on the cell phone 5-7 times a day, 7 days a week for two years that I can prove through detailed cell phone billing. I told him that no one in this world has that much conversation for another person unless they are "courting". Hell, I dont even talk to my WH that much!!!!!

 

If the other person is not friends of the marriage, then there shouldnt be any secret contact. If the spouse will not share contact with another person to their spouse, then there should be any contact whatsoever.

[BubbleFreak]

I've asked this same question before on another relationship forum. What I got from it was that generally women are quite happy to put men into a "friends" category and nothing more. But most men do not make "friends" with a girl unless they would have sex with them, given the opportunity.

 

IMO, though, if you have had an opposite sex friend (or whatever sex you are attracted to) from way back in childhood then I see no reason why it couldn't stay platonic into adulthood.

 

Go with your gut instinct.

[ADF]

Of coure they can, and frequently are. It is just a matter of people behaving like adults (as opposed to honry teenagers) and respecting boundries.

[bentnotbroken]

I have maintained a couple of healthy friendships with childhood friends. We were raised together and it's more like a sibling situation than just friends. It is clear that Mr. Messy couldn't do that. I always had problems with his "friends" they always seemed sleazy or at least "up to something". I guess it would depend on the people involved and how strong their boundaries are.

[Owl]

How would you define acquaintances or casual friends? For example, xMM talked about "someone he stayed in touch with" that he trained for a marathon with. Whhhooaa red flag went off, (xMM must not be a first timer regardless of what he said), I've trained and ran a marathon and that's a whole lot of time and commitment to spend with someone who is not your spouse. Gut instinct tells me, "GET OUT OF DODGE" on that one.

 

There are a number of women I work with on a daily basis. They are acquaintances. I say hi to them, chat politely with them when I'm getting coffee at the same time they are, etc...

 

I overhear some basic things about their lives outside of work, but I don't participate in those conversations.

 

I would never recommend spending a large amount of time interacting with opposite sex friends in any kind of situation outside of a work environment...heck, even work is risky, just read the threads here.

 

As you've said...it's all about boundaries. It's about keeping that "distance" between you to prevent any kind of relationship from growing...ESPECIALLY if it's someone you find yourself attracted to.

[carhill]

And I'm always thinking does this guy want more, my neighbor want more, is the pastor checking me out, etc.

 

The answer, if the man is in any way proactive in the dynamic, IMO, is 'yes', and you can expect it to always be the case. If he is reactive, meaning that he doesn't seek you out but rather responds to your contact positively and with friendly interest, then a platonic friendship is more possible. He's not behaving in 'hunter' mode. This presumes you are married and he is aware of that marriage.

 

I've found the best way to preserve my boundaries is to actively support the marriage (I'll speak strictly about marriages here) and include the spouse. Whenever married female friends slip into the marital sharing mode, I always mention my impressions of them and their spouse, how I feel they work so well as a team and that they (she) should really speak to their spouse about these issues. What this does for myself is create an intimacy boundary, where intimacy, meaning private mutual disclosure, interest and appreciation, is not created, because I'm wired to derive attraction from intimacy. If I stop or re-direct that process, no attraction attends, or, at worst, what does attend can be easily managed. I also have found women seem to respond positively to this approach and often dissolve their complaints and begin to speak more positively about their situations during our conversations. This appears to refocus them on their spouse as well.

 

IMO, endeavor to keep the 'friendships' interest or task-related and always include the spouse (your own too, if you're married), both in conversation and socially. Everyone knows everyone else. Full transparency.

 

I do this every day now with the close circle of friends whom have supported me during my divorce (both men and women) and find it to work pretty well. YMMV. Everyone is different.

 

The standard answer, which I left until last, is men and women can be friends if there's no mutual or singular attraction. I've had such platonic female friends. It does happen. That said, once I became sexually active, the 'desire' to enjoy women in a platonic way decreased markedly, and such instances of mutual lack of attraction have been exceedingly rare since. So, personally, I would discount the dynamic for any sexually active male. Women, IDK. They have their own path

[joey66]

The answer, if the man is in any way proactive in the dynamic, IMO, is 'yes', and you can expect it to always be the case. If he is reactive, meaning that he doesn't seek you out but rather responds to your contact positively and with friendly interest, then a platonic friendship is more possible. He's not behaving in 'hunter' mode. This presumes you are married and he is aware of that marriage.

 

So, personally, I would discount the dynamic for any sexually active male. Women, IDK. They have their own path

 

Strongly disagree with this. Further, generalizations about "men do this and women do that," or "women think this way and men think that way" drive me insane.

 

Can men and women be friends? There is no single right answer. Some men and women can be friends, some cannot. Depends completely on the individuals involved.

Edited May 5, 2010 by joey66
spelling errors

[carhill]

Insanity is OK. Enjoyed it while married. We each offer our own 'opinions'. I'd love to hear your reasoning for *yourself*. That's how we learn.

[secretlady76]

Yes they can be friends. However if one or other or both start fancying the other then that's when it gets a bit difficult.....and once the friendship becomes secretive then it's defo an issue....

[redtail]

...

So back to my original question, can married people be friends with the opposite sex or is it just too risky?

 

Well, this is a classic case of theory conflicting with reality. I think that yes, they can be friends, but it is a slippery slope. I would say that under ideal circumstances, but life isn't always ideal. Of course there will be people who will list the exceptions where there was no sexual tension, etc, etc, etc.

 

"Men and women can never be friends, the sex part always gets in the way." Billy Crystal "When Harry met Sally"

[seibert253]

I have a good friend who's a female. She actually used to be very close friends w/ my W, but they grew apart since they no longer work together.

She's actually more like a little sister as there is a big age difference between us.

Everything's on the up and up, and my W know's about all our interactions. We will conversate in person at the gym, text, and email occasionally. Play softball on the same team but that's it. No lunches, get togethers, nothing of sort. My W would not be OK with that so neither am I. I feel it would be inappropriate and disrespectful to my W. My W may have disrespected me with her past actions with her OM, but I refuse to stoop to that level.

[quankanne]

Of course they can, and frequently are. It is just a matter of people behaving like adults (as opposed to horny teenagers) and respecting boundaries.

 

yep. They can, provided it's explicitly put out there that it will only *ever* be a friendship. The guys I befriended in college, my husband has met, and he knows that I love them dearly ... as brothers ... and has no problems with me going to visit them and their families on my own. Hell, the wife of one is really sweet about making sure that he and I have our time alone to hang out and catch up, even though she's as much fun to be around – I'm guessing that she accepts and respects the friendship we've had for 20 some-odd years, and that has been a huge blessing for the relationship between the three of us.

[ladydesigner]

Obviously there are no absolutes, but from my experience, this is playing with fire. Friendship/confidante is who my whole A got started. Revealing, sharing, getting close then once the emotional hooks are in it's hard to break free.

 

Since the disclosure, colleagues have approached me for friendship and sometimes you want to meet for coffee to discuss business. But I have a whole new awareness/paranoia antennae that I sprouted since my A. The naivete is gone. And I'm always thinking does this guy want more, my neighbor want more, is the pastor checking me out, etc. Gone are the co-ed days when you could sit in a Starbucks and wax on poetically about life, love and whatever. For me this desire has never really left me, but I found out the hard way I have to channel it appropriately. Journaling, LS, blogging, thru my H and girlfriends.

 

So back to my original question, can married people be friends with the opposite sex or is it just too risky?

 

I think they can be as long as there is no attraction there. If there is even a hint of attraction then it is a disaster waiting to happen. Once the line gets crossed (flirting, emotional connection, etc.) there is no way I think a man and woman can be friends with each other.

 

I was also friends first with my ex-colleague/xOM. We eventually progressed into an EA (I didn't know what it was at that time) and eventually PA.

[califnan]

I think whether married or single.. If a man and woman are friends, it seems there is usually one or the other - who would like for it to be more.

[OWoman]

I have many male friends, some S, some M, some otherwise attached. Some are very very close friends, who've shared intimate discussions of a deeply personal nature with me, and I with them. Friends do. And some things are just easier to discuss with members of the other sex.

 

They're friends, not lovers. Filed in the "friends" category for a reason. There's no way anything would happen because I'm not interested in them as lovers. They're friends.

 

Are any of them attracted to me, in ways beyond "friends"? Quite possibly. At least one is, I know for sure (he's been honest about it). But they know where I stand and respect that - and why would they set themselves up for rejection, knowing I'm not interested? My friends know how I work, sexually - they know that ANYONE hitting on me is going to get blown off - I do the choosing, I'm not some object on a shelf to be chosen. They wouldn't waste their time (or risk their ego!)

[road]

Being friends with is not the same as being friends.

 

Friendly and will chat with wives of my friends and female co workers is not the same as being "friends". As in spending recreational time with the opp sex. Rec time should be spent with your wife and or same sex buddies.

 

So the answer is no.

 

Have good boundaries and affairs will not start.

[califnan]

 

As in spending recreational time with the opp sex. Rec time should be spent with your wife and or same sex buddies.

 

So the answer is no.

 

Have good boundaries and affairs will not start.

 

--------------------

 

I agree. If time spent - takes away from time with spouse, it should not be.

[sally4sara]

I do have male friends, but none that I can't bring around or seem to avoid being brought around my husband. When they act up, he hears about it. More to the point, when they act up, by the time he hears about it -they have already been told to take a hike.

 

And it is not that we have to be friends with the same people. I am friendly with some people he doesn't know well and he the same.

 

It is when invitations have been extended and the friend in question avoids following through that you get your first hint. Recently a subject in the last week for us.

 

My husband is from the town we live in, so he has lots of old friends around. One is particular had a lot of similar interests as myself. He would invite her around - she was always busy. We went to one of her performance piece exhibits because I thought it sounded cool. She would barely talk to me. In messages he's show me, she won't use my name - calls me only "wifey". That was months ago. I told him she was going to end up causing a problem. His response was "well she hasn't so far and I've known her since 9th grade. If she does I won't know her anymore." Fair enough.

This past weekend, he was at his PC and I was falling asleep in the bed next to his desk.

She started off mewling in an IM about how one of the guys she is screwing around with (she is single, but polyamorous) is also screwing around with a female friend of hers. My husband had pointed out how odd it was for her to be self proclaimed polyamorous and so easily made jealous too. That she has no right to be upset when she is also seeing many other people.

:eek:She starts telling him how great he is and how she wishes he'd push us into the scene, get me to not be such a prude so he could come comfort her in her favorite way......blech!

He called her right then and there and told her he is tired of her only contacting him to whine about her relationship problems when she causes them and that she is not anyone he'd call friend if she is going to disrespect us this way. That he is ashamed of himself for ever defending her behavior in the past, when I had her pegged all along. Told her to never call again and that he is now glad she recently moved to another state.

I had been pretty out of it till he started yelling at her and didn't really know what was going on till he showed me the IM conversations.

Uggg, the worst way to be proven right is when it comes with your partner being disappointed and embarrassed.

This has happened once before - but for all you talking about how men and women shouldn't be friends - the other friend that acted out this way was ONE OF HIS GUY FRIENDS.

 

Triflin folk come in all kinds. Limiting your spouse to one gender for friends won't ensure it never happens. Be it because they want to step in your marriage or they want to have someone to run the streets with.

[califnan]

This past weekend, he was at his PC and I was falling asleep in the bed next to his desk.

She started off mewling in an IM about how one of the guys she is screwing around with (she is single, but polyamorous) is also screwing around with a female friend of hers. My husband had pointed out how odd it was for her to be self proclaimed polyamorous and so easily made jealous too. That she has no right to be upset when she is also seeing many other people.

:eek:She starts telling him how great he is and how she wishes he'd push us into the scene, get me to not be such a prude so he could come comfort her in her favorite way......blech!

He called her right then and there and told her he is tired of her only contacting him to whine about her relationship problems when she causes them and that she is not anyone he'd call friend if she is going to disrespect us this way. That he is ashamed of himself for ever defending her behavior in the past, when I had her pegged all along. Told her to never call again and that he is now glad she recently moved to another state.

I had been pretty out of it till he started yelling at her and didn't really know what was going on till he showed me the IM conversations.

Uggg, the worst way to be proven right is when it comes with your partner being disappointed and embarrassed.

This has happened once before - but for all you talking about how men and women shouldn't be friends - the other friend that acted out this way was ONE OF HIS GUY FRIENDS.

 

Triflin folk come in all kinds. Limiting your spouse to one gender for friends won't ensure it never happens. Be it because they want to step in your marriage or they want to have someone to run the streets with.

 

--------------------------

 

I still think that a husband and wife who use others (correspond) of the opposite sex, to add interest to their lives .... Are flirting with danger.