Great. A fight on my birthday.

[shadowplay]

Elsywth, I totally get what you're saying about people on LS not knowing the full picture. But when I actually think about it, it's extremely rare that someone is given advice to be careful and their relationship turns out to be successful. It's far more often that people are given positive feedback and the relationship fails. I've followed thousands of threads, and can barely think of one example. With my most recent ex, for example, I wish I had heeded some of the advice about him being too clingy, immature and overly invested at the beginning. At the time I just thought they don't really know him, they don't know how much he loves me, they don't see the way he speaks to me and looks at me. It's come as a surprise to me, but objective facts seem to matter more than the small personal, details when judging the viability of a relationship. What people on LS can't really do without knowing the full picture is understand/decipher why an SO acts the way they do, what their motivations are. I notice they tend to miss the mark much more often with these judgments.

[Citizen Erased]

Heh.

 

---------

 

Are you kidding me? You know you have enough threads to be bitter in, this comment was actually useless.

[SadandConfusedWA]

FYI I wasn't basing my judgement on this thread alone, but on a number of past threads that PG has posted about this guy. Over time, the pattern has become clear that she is more invested than he is and the gap seems to be growing.

 

Spending time together in LDR is MAJOR and pretty much the most important thing in a LDR.

[Els]

Elsywth, I totally get what you're saying about people on LS not knowing the full picture. But when I actually think about it, it's extremely rare that someone is given advice to be careful and their relationship turns out to be successful. It's far more often that people are given positive feedback and the relationship fails. I've followed thousands of threads, and can barely think of one example. With my most recent ex, for example, I wish I had heeded some of the advice about him being too clingy, immature and overly invested at the beginning. At the time I just thought they don't really know him, they don't know how much he loves me, they don't see the way he speaks to me and looks at me. It's come as a surprise to me, but objective facts seem to matter more than the small personal, details when judging the viability of a relationship. What people on LS can't really do without knowing the full picture is understand/decipher why an SO acts the way they do, what their motivations are. I notice they tend to miss the mark much more often with these judgments.

 

I honestly think the reason for this is pure statistics - probably 1% of relationships even work out very well for the long term. Whereas more than 1% of advice is encouraging. Sometimes I hesitate to tell someone they should break up except in extremely clearcut cases though, since I fear that my negative advice will break up a relationship that actually COULD have worked without it.

[Kamille]

Again, I agree with Elswith. All we are seeing here is that most new relationships do not make it past the 1 year mark.

 

Plus, I don't generally give out the "he's not into you - dump him" advice because I don't think that's my decision to make.

 

What I do know about Panda is that she's said in the past she can easily fall into black and white thinking (even though here she's clearly trying to balance things out). Her bf "not making time to look at a day planner (- which he likely doesn't use or has, like me, misplaced in the move - ) is far from being a deal breaker. I also assume he's an adult and that if he does have issues with the relationship, he will be mature and communicate these to Panda. At the same time, she's also very mature, so if his behavior becomes too much for her, she will know to move on.

 

A lot of people on here act as if the other person's partner is out there to take advantage of them. I've actually had to balance out my "black and white" thinking in my relationship. My bf at one point brought up the topic: "You always try to read into everything I do. I love you, I want you in my life. I'm not perfect. I would like it if we could talk about our issues as areas of improvement and not as potential deal breakers". I have, and guess what, my life - and I'm guessing his- is much easier thanks to it.

[shadowplay]

Are you kidding me? You know you have enough threads to be bitter in, this comment was actually useless.

 

You misinterpreted my response. I wasn't agreeing with her. I just thought it was a random, passive aggressive comment.

Edited May 7, 2010 by shadowplay

[Els]

You misinterpreted my response. I wasn't agreeing with her. I just thought it was a random, passive aggressive comment.

 

You must have misinterpreted my intention, then. -.- Honeymoon phases never last forever, and one should really enjoy them while in them because it's a lovely part of the relationship, although arguably the 'stable love' part later is also beautiful in its own way if it's achieved.

[pandagirl]

Yes, this is very true! Thing is, PG hasn't told us how SOON the dates are (or I missed it if she did?). If they are, say, a month from now and he estimates he will be freer in a week's time, and it isn't peak season so it's highly unlikely tickets will be sold out, he may be procrastinating because of that. He may want to see her, but he may think that he'll have plenty of time to look at the dates later. Of course, there IS also the possibility that he really isn't interested in seeing her. Only she will know.

 

It's about three to four weeks away. Tickets won't be sold out for sure, as this is a common flight, but prices will go up. The fight was about I want to know if it's going to be in three OR four weeks.

 

A lot of people on here act as if the other person's partner is out there to take advantage of them. I've actually had to balance out my "black and white" thinking in my relationship. My bf at one point brought up the topic: "You always try to read into everything I do. I love you, I want you in my life. I'm not perfect. I would like it if we could talk about our issues as areas of improvement and not as potential deal breakers". I have, and guess what, my life - and I'm guessing his- is much easier thanks to it.

 

Interesting, K. My boyfriend has said the same thing to me a few times, the whole: "You take everything I do and connect it some sign that I don't care or love you. Am I really that horrible?" And while this recent flight scheduling is a very solid instance of him doing something that upsets me, he told me: "PLEASE. Don't do that thing where you think I don't care about you because of this. I want to see you. I miss you so much. But, I really do need some space in my head to sit down and figure out the best dates."

 

I found out the night of our argument, he had fallen asleep at 6:30, because he was so tired from work and the trip he had just gotten back from, which is why he didn't look up flights. Recently, he's been so exhausted that he's been forgetting things, too. Needless to say, he has his hands full.

 

ALL THAT SAID, yes, he needs to get his crap together and help me figure out the trip asap.

[shadowplay]

I honestly think the reason for this is pure statistics - probably 1% of relationships even work out very well for the long term. Whereas more than 1% of advice is encouraging. Sometimes I hesitate to tell someone they should break up except in extremely clearcut cases though, since I fear that my negative advice will break up a relationship that actually COULD have worked without it.

 

I agree that this is part of it, but I don't think it's quite that simple.

 

What I've noticed is that when someone consistently gets a lot of "be careful" responses in their thread, the relationship usually fails for the very reason about which they've been cautioned. Offhand I can think of a ton of examples and only one counter example.

 

Aside from extreme examples, I don't encourage a "dump him" attitude whenever a red flag pops up. I'm not advising Panda to dump her boyfriend by any means. But I do think she should be careful, maybe distance herself a little and take into consideration some of the feedback she's gotten without dismissing it. This means becoming more aware of her needs and taking note if they continue to not be met.

[shadowplay]

You must have misinterpreted my intention, then. -.- Honeymoon phases never last forever, and one should really enjoy them while in them because it's a lovely part of the relationship, although arguably the 'stable love' part later is also beautiful in its own way if it's achieved.

 

Ha, I guess I did. I just thought it was confusing in combination with the smiley face. No hard feelings.

[pandagirl]

Aside from extreme examples, I don't encourage a "dump him" attitude whenever a red flag pops up. I'm not advising Panda to dump her boyfriend by any means. But I do think she should be careful, maybe distance herself a little and take into consideration some of the feedback she's gotten without dismissing it. This means becoming more aware of her needs and taking note if they continue to not be met.

 

Yes, I agree with this part. Of course, if he is not meeting my needs and he does not respond to my communication effectively over a period of time, then I would be inclined to break things off.

[shadowplay]

Yes, I agree with this part. Of course, if he is not meeting my needs and he does not respond to my communication effectively over a period of time, then I would be inclined to break things off.

 

Good! Then you're a step ahead of many people (myself included). The only thing I would add is emotionally divest a bit, like TBF advised. That means just observing his behavior rather than trying to influence it, which will make you less likely to blow up and also allow you to make more rational decisions about what you want to do with that information.

[Kamille]

I

 

 

"You take everything I do and connect it some sign that I don't care or love you. Am I really that horrible?"

 

BF has said the exact same thing! Whenever I get upset, he feels like he's not doing something right. He feels like his job is my well-being. (So then, why does he keep messing up? ) Men take a lot more responsibility for the well-being of relationships than I ever credited them for.

 

I've come to realize that while I generally "monitor" our relationship, he generally feels things are going great. So, for him, canceling an appointment or not making plans straight away isn't a big deal precisely because, in his mind, "we have nothing to worry about". Whenever I get upset, his first reaction is: "but I thought we were doing so great!"

 

Give up monitoring the situation for awhile Pandagirl and as TBF and SP suggested, step back and let him show some initiative.

[shadowplay]

Panda, I apologize if I was over-reactive in my first comments. I know how much I get annoyed when people on LS are quick to respond "dump him!" at the slightest red flag. That's black and white thinking. I think a balanced approach is best in advice giving. Unless it's an abusive or highly toxic relationship, it's not really fair for people to tell a stranger to dump their SO. Somebody needs to make a choice like that on their own. The only advice we should give is to be mindful of the potential problems.

[Els]

I agree that this is part of it, but I don't think it's quite that simple.

 

What I've noticed is that when someone consistently gets a lot of "be careful" responses in their thread, the relationship usually fails for the very reason about which they've been cautioned. Offhand I can think of a ton of examples and only one counter example.

 

Aside from extreme examples, I don't encourage a "dump him" attitude whenever a red flag pops up. I'm not advising Panda to dump her boyfriend by any means. But I do think she should be careful, maybe distance herself a little and take into consideration some of the feedback she's gotten without dismissing it. This means becoming more aware of her needs and taking note if they continue to not be met.

 

Yes, I definitely agree with this as well, and I'm glad PG does. My gripe was at the post stating that it DEFINITELY shows he's not invested in her, because 'XXX couple isn't like that'. And at the people claiming that when PG says she knows her own R better, she's in denial.

[pandagirl]

 

BF has said the exact same thing! Whenever I get upset, he feels like he's not doing something right. He feels like his job is my well-being. (So then, why does he keep messing up? ) Men take a lot more responsibility for the well-being of relationships than I ever credited them for.

 

I've come to realize that while I generally "monitor" our relationship, he generally feels things are going great. So, for him, canceling an appointment or not making plans straight away isn't a big deal precisely because, in his mind, "we have nothing to worry about". Whenever I get upset, his first reaction is: "but I thought we were doing so great!"

 

Give up monitoring the situation for awhile Pandagirl and as TBF and SP suggested, step back and let him show some initiative.

 

Wow, are we dating the same guy? haha. My BF totally has the, "we have nothing to worry about," attitude, too. He doesn't worry about things or over-analyze anything...how is that possible!? He always tells me to: RELAX. Sometimes he tells me, "It makes me sad that I feel like you have no idea how I feel about you."

 

And, I definitely "monitor" relationships. A lot of people are saying I'm "over-invested" in this relationship, but the truth is I'm not. It's more like...I'm trying to decide whether or not I *should* invest, which is why I tend to "monitor," so I can make "educated" choices and decisions. My love grows slowly and cautiously, even in platonic relationships.

 

Obviously, I know I have no control over other people, but I take into account so many things: how they treat strangers, friends, family...how they react to conflict...what kind of friends they have...do they like animals...how do they tip... I mean, the list goes on and on!

 

But I need to feel like I've seen the entirety of a person, before I invest. I don't know if this is a boring way of looking at life, but it's probably why I've had the same friends forever, and only have really good friends in my life.

 

Panda, I apologize if I was over-reactive in my first comments. I know how much I get annoyed when people on LS are quick to respond "dump him!" at the slightest red flag. That's black and white thinking. I think a balanced approach is best in advice giving. Unless it's an abusive or highly toxic relationship, it's not really fair for people to tell a stranger to dump their SO. Somebody needs to make a choice like that on their own. The only advice we should give is to be mindful of the potential problems.

 

Oh, SP. No worries. My persona on LS is probably different from me in real life, obviously. Overall, I'm a pretty put-together person, and I 100% know that I will never stay in a relationship I don't think is worth it.

[CLC2008]

The thing about me and Pyro is that neither of us would put the other off about spending time together.

 

I tend to agree with this comment.

 

It makes sense that since he just moved and started a new job, that he is tired, busy, etc.

 

But, "putting it off" is completley different altogether. If anything, I would hope he would want you to be HAPPY on your Birthday, and if that means reassuring you that within x amount of days and/or weeks, you'd see each other, well...I don't think that you're asking for too much. Surprising you on your Birthday is even better, but maybe it's too early in this stage for that.

[pandagirl]

So we were discussing the trip in a roundabout way, and I asked him what airport I should fly into, the one in the city, or the one that is a little outside of the city. And how would I get to his place, because he doesn't have a car to pick me up, etc.

 

Anyway, he ends up telling me a big reason he hasn't given me dates yet is because he doesn't know if his car will be ready. He's been calling the shop everyday on its status. The car is currently at his family's place in another state, where it's been sitting in a garage for the last month getting repaired. He thought he was going to get it this past weekend and drive it down, but it ends up the part they needed hadn't arrived yet.

 

We're both pretty scrapped for money, and a car rental is expensive, and so is taking cabs everywhere. He sort of been stranded because of this since he moved there, and says he'd feel really bad if I had to endure the same fate as him. Under normal circumstances, I'd be like, that's fine -- we'll just hang out and make dinner and be together.... But he lives in a hotel room, with no kitchen, which means we'd have to eat at pretty much the same place every night, which is literally a chicken place, and I'm a vegetarian.

 

Anyway, apparently, this detail has been stressing him out. Like, this invariable needs to be solved before we move forward with plans. He feels embarrassed if I were to come and he couldn't show me a proper time in his new town. Ultimately, I'm going to go down there no matter what, so I think we'll figure this out this weekend, but we seem to be communicating and understanding each other better. So that's what really matters to me.

[Star Gazer]

It still screams "I'll see you when it's convenient to me."

[SadandConfusedWA]

Yes, I definitely agree with this as well, and I'm glad PG does. My gripe was at the post stating that it DEFINITELY shows he's not invested in her, because 'XXX couple isn't like that'. And at the people claiming that when PG says she knows her own R better, she's in denial.

 

Yes and even with the last post by PG (the car excuse) I still stand 100% by what I said. We have to agree to disagree.

 

 

I also never said "dump him", I don't give that advice unless someone is being severly mistreated.

[threebyfate]

So he's embarrassed by his living conditions and doesn't have the money to improve on them before you show up.

 

If you're determined to make this work pandagirl, you're going to have to take his pride into account.

 

Either give him time to improve on those conditions by giving him another month to try to get it together which should help to alleviate his stress level or let him know none of that matters, as long as you get to see him.

 

Pressuring someone who's not ready for your visit can be deadly to a relationship. BTDT but I was the one being pressured, albeit money wasn't the problem. It did not end well.

[thisismystory]

Hi PandaGirl,

 

Happy Birthday! I just celebrated my birthday yesterday so I can imagine how horrible it must be to have a fight on your birthday.

 

It seems I'm a latecomer to this thread and didn't get a chance to read through everything. You may have already gotten all the advice you're asking for. Either way, I just have to say, my boyfriend has a hard time expressing emotions and blocks out people when stressed too. He does NOT like to plan visits in advance (unless it's a trip that involves booking a hotel or something) because things can "pop up." There was one time where he was really busy and I decided to cancel the visit. In retrospect, it wasn't a bad thing. He was stressed and working on a big project, and my visiting would actually take time away from his work.

 

So...I don't think your SO doesn't care; he probably has a hard time communicating what's bothering him because he's used to keeping stuff to himself and doesn't realize what he's doing is bothering you.

 

I'm glad he talked to you about why he doesn't want to make concrete plants yet. It seems other posters are concerned he's making an "excuse." I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet until you actually see him, which will be soon, I hope. I agree with ThreebyFate's comment (above).

 

Best of luck and happy birthday!

Edited May 7, 2010 by thisismystory

[Mrs_AJ]

I don't think it's as black and white as that, though I understand what you're saying. Part of our talk last night was he hates that I correlate his actions with him not caring, and he says this is absolutely not true and that it really bothers him. He said: "I call you three times a day! How can you think I don't care about you!" Fine, he does do that, but it isn't everything.

 

I'm not clinging to this relationship, and obviously, I don't post on here about all the great things he does. LDRs are hard. This is the first argument we've had that is based on a fundamental way of viewing things. If I continue to see this as a pattern, then maybe this relationship isn't the best one for me. But all relationships, LDR or not, have these problems, so I need to see if we can communicate and work it out first, before I jump to conclusions.

 

This just stood out to me. He feels he is trying his best and that he truly cares for you, but this is not enough for you and is not meeting your needs as you're obviously not happy. This would be the breaking-point. Either he changes and adjusts to your expectations or you accept that this will not happen and that this is the way it is. Something has got to change. Not? You break it off or maybe he'll get fed up and do so.

 

I was unhappy when my LDR SO wouldn't call. 3x a day would be amazing to me, even a tad bit too much. But he wouldn't change and I wasn't happy. So that was our breaking-point and that ended it. I'm learning that my happiness comes from within me.

[SarahRose]

At first I was in the Rob camp with why not just book a ticket and go. It just seems so strange to be in a serious relationship and to have to plan the time to be there other than taking off work to go.

 

Then I read he is living in a motel room. Well damn just leave the guy alone. Just forget about going out there at all until he finds a place to live and gets settled.

[RobM]

At first I was in the Rob camp with why not just book a ticket and go.

 

I almost fell out of my chair, nobody's ever been in my camp, usually they make me camp by myself way far away from everyone else.

 

If this guy is living in a hotel room, no car, and and so stressed from working nonstop, why not just put the trip off for a while, until he has the time and energy to do it right.