How I got MY wife into sex

[tnttim]

Giotto. You not arguing with wife is another part of your downfall. When she is being ridiculous, you definitely need to let her know. That's called being a man. Now I'm not saying tell at her because she burned dinner, but if she's acting irrational, she needs and wants to be put into check. I'm sure she has no problem doing it to you. Believe me she will not look down on you for it. As crazy as it sounds, deep down she wants it. The women on ls will disagree, but women themselves don't realize it either. That's why women date jerks, they have no problem putting their GFs in check, the problem is they do it too much. The ones that have great success know when to do it and know that giving them great feelings on top of putting them in check is the ultimate formula.

[giotto]

Giotto. You not arguing with wife is another part of your downfall. When she is being ridiculous, you definitely need to let her know. That's called being a man. Now I'm not saying tell at her because she burned dinner, but if she's acting irrational, she needs and wants to be put into check. I'm sure she has no problem doing it to you. Believe me she will not look down on you for it. As crazy as it sounds, deep down she wants it. The women on ls will disagree, but women themselves don't realize it either. That's why women date jerks, they have no problem putting their GFs in check, the problem is they do it too much. The ones that have great success know when to do it and know that giving them great feelings on top of putting them in check is the ultimate formula.

 

Tim, believe me, I have. The result: she withdraws in her shell and takes her 2 weeks to recover form the "emotional abuse"... because this is how she sees it, although she's never told me explicitly. I'm afraid - as I said in the past - she has serious emotional issues, stemming from her childhood. I have now resigned myself to the fact that she will never be able to overcome them, so that's why I will be leaving when the time is right... it's not abandoning a sinking ship, since the ship has enough defence mechanisms to survive. I don't have these defences, so I have to go to protect myself.

 

She is not a nasty or unkind person, but she is damaged. What I resent about her is that she hid the extent of the damage for many years, leading me to believe - in her distorted view of reality - that I was the "abnormal" one, blaming me for getting upset with her for something which is pretty much normal in a couple: a sexual relationship. I suppose that was another of her defence mechanism. It's impossible to fight against all these windmills, so I give up...

[mem11363]

I bet your wife is a hell of a poker player.

 

She consistently says "I can't" until you say "then I am leaving" at which point she says "I ok - well I can do THAT"

 

As for the mistress - I think you would be shocked. If you simply start creating blocks of time that you refuse to account for - and you treat any questions about those times they exact same way she treats requests for sex, which is.

 

"I need you to stop acting in a distrusting way and putting all this pressure on me to account for myself" and do that in an aggressive way. Quickly she will stop asking. Unless you put direct evidence of another woman in her hand she will just look the other way. She is MORE afraid of divorce than you are.

 

 

 

 

Tim, believe me, I have. The result: she withdraws in her shell and takes her 2 weeks to recover form the "emotional abuse"... because this is how she sees it, although she's never told me explicitly. I'm afraid - as I said in the past - she has serious emotional issues, stemming from her childhood. I have now resigned myself to the fact that she will never be able to overcome them, so that's why I will be leaving when the time is right... it's not abandoning a sinking ship, since the ship has enough defence mechanisms to survive. I don't have these defences, so I have to go to protect myself.

 

She is not a nasty or unkind person, but she is damaged. What I resent about her is that she hid the extent of the damage for many years, leading me to believe - in her distorted view of reality - that I was the "abnormal" one, blaming me for getting upset with her for something which is pretty much normal in a couple: a sexual relationship. I suppose that was another of her defence mechanism. It's impossible to fight against all these windmills, so I give up...

[Jack & Coke]

Here's an unconventional approach....

 

I call it the Secret Diary Method....

 

And I probably have a different view (for potentially self-benefiting reasons), but sexual desirability fluctuates...

 

In most cases, I would estimate (98% of the time) when the woman's interest goes down, the guy rarely/never asks himself if he could do things differently...

 

He keeps "asking for sex" (instead of triggering arousal)...

 

And she keeps "giving excuses" (as if she's calling in for work)...

 

I tell my clients to create a "secret diary" filled with entries detailing times

when she was REEEEAAALLLY TURNED ON....

 

If you can think (recall) of a time when she was Super Horny, then you would write about the situation...

 

Make a note of everything... Kind of like you're gathering information at a crime scene...lol

 

* what foods she ate

* how she felt about you that day

* what emotions she was experiencing

* what you said to her

* etc.

 

In most "cases", when a guy experiences his wife being turned on more so than normal, the guy is "unknowingly" performing a BRILLIANT STRATEGY for triggering her arousal...

 

So the idea, it to build a database (as geeky as it may sound) of SUCCESS FILES...

 

That way you can start doing things "on purpose" that are based on (pretty similar) to the entries in the "seduction diary"...

 

That's an excellent idea

[giotto]

I bet your wife is a hell of a poker player.

 

She consistently says "I can't" until you say "then I am leaving" at which point she says "I ok - well I can do THAT"

 

As for the mistress - I think you would be shocked. If you simply start creating blocks of time that you refuse to account for - and you treat any questions about those times they exact same way she treats requests for sex, which is.

 

"I need you to stop acting in a distrusting way and putting all this pressure on me to account for myself" and do that in an aggressive way. Quickly she will stop asking. Unless you put direct evidence of another woman in her hand she will just look the other way. She is MORE afraid of divorce than you are.

 

Are you implying I should have an affair? We live in a small town and I certainly can't let other women know that "I'm available"... can't behave like I'm looking for an affair... I can assure you my wife and my children would get to know it pretty quickly...

 

You are right when you say that she agrees to sex if I threaten to leave... she is better at meeting my needs at the moment, but she does it to keep me here. I don't want to have pity sex and unfortunately that's what it is... after a while she takes me for granted again. She reverts back to her old self. Because I don't care anymore, I'm not grumpy, I'm quite happy, and she is happy too... you know why? Because she doesn't feel guilty about it. What she think is: why can't we be a happy family, a happy couple with some sex thrown in from time to time? Like most couples I know? It's strange, but it seems like we are from two different planets...

[mem11363]

G,

I get the small town stuff.

 

Just curious, in general is your wife much nicer to you when she thinks that YOU are thinking about leaving her? Not just about sex, but nicer in terms of overall behavior?

 

Because if you want to keep your sanity for the next several years while you stay with her - you might want to consider a means of creating an environment where she feels a lot more fear of conflict than you do. Where she feels the need to make up with you when she is in the wrong.

 

Sadly many people are incapable of treating a partner well - if they believe that partner is willing to be treated very badly. And I think your early pattern was that she got to do/not do whatever she wanted and when you fought about stuff you always tried to make up with her.

 

Over time she has conditioned you to avoid any conflict because she inflicts SO MUCH EMOTIONAL PAIN on you when there is conflict. Like the whole - you ask for sex - and for 2 weeks she gives you frostburn by being cold and withdrawn. That is what people with a borderline personality do. I know about it as sadly - it runs in my family!!!

 

I have a close family member who is definitely BPD. If she was not a family member I would NEVER interact with her. But I am stuck with her. Turns out people like this don't have many of the normal behavioral inhibitors (kindness, conscience, fairness to others, etc) so you actually have to use fear. They respond very very well to fear. So with this family member, I start out with a mild edge to my voice and a very short, direct delivery style about what they have to do to fix a situation when they have misbehaved. And I immediately start ratchet my tone of voice from mild edge to sharper edge and say "you are in the wrong here - do you really want to escalate this with me?"

 

Guess what - amazing how well that works. By the way I hate having to interact with anyone like that. I like nice/friendly - thought provoking conversation. I am fine with "fair" conflict but dislike abusive conflict. And in fact I dislike the tactics I have to use with her, but have found nothing works with her but an immediate dose of fear.

 

By the way - this post is not about sex - it is not about inducing sex through fear. It is about everything else in the marriage. Just day to day interaction - consideration etc. If the only thing you fight about is sex - and she truly is nice/considerate/kind about everything else - then this post does not apply to you.

 

Are you implying I should have an affair? We live in a small town and I certainly can't let other women know that "I'm available"... can't behave like I'm looking for an affair... I can assure you my wife and my children would get to know it pretty quickly...

 

You are right when you say that she agrees to sex if I threaten to leave... she is better at meeting my needs at the moment, but she does it to keep me here. I don't want to have pity sex and unfortunately that's what it is... after a while she takes me for granted again. She reverts back to her old self. Because I don't care anymore, I'm not grumpy, I'm quite happy, and she is happy too... you know why? Because she doesn't feel guilty about it. What she think is: why can't we be a happy family, a happy couple with some sex thrown in from time to time? Like most couples I know? It's strange, but it seems like we are from two different planets...

Edited June 11, 2010 by mem11363

[giotto]

G,

If the only thing you fight about is sex - and she truly is nice/considerate/kind about everything else - then this post does not apply to you.

 

yep... the only thing... we get along fine and she is a nice person (somewhat selfish, though... )... sex has obviously created a barrier between us and ruined our relationship overall in the long run...

[Phateless]

yep... the only thing... we get along fine and she is a nice person (somewhat selfish, though... )... sex has obviously created a barrier between us and ruined our relationship overall in the long run...

 

I think you need to get out. This isn't a relationship, it's a friendship. You should tell her that you want a relationship in your life and all she can offer you is friendship, so you're leaving. I bet that will get her ass into counseling quickly.

 

Overall selfishness goes a lot farther than you think. I think you should withdraw from meeting her emotional needs, because she isn't meeting yours. In my relationship, the only thing that started the improvement with her was when I stopped saying I love you. It's been a VERY rocky road since then, but NO CHANGE BEGAN until I withdrew those words. That's when she finally took me seriously.

[giotto]

In my relationship, the only thing that started the improvement with her was when I stopped saying I love you. It's been a VERY rocky road since then, but NO CHANGE BEGAN until I withdrew those words. That's when she finally took me seriously.

 

We haven't been saying "I love you" to each other for a very long time... (well, occasionally, after sex... she says it, and I just reply "me too", but it feels fake...), so that wouldn't work . I think we both know it's finished, although she is making an effort to keep me here. On the other hand, since I decided it's finished, I'm much happier and so she is happy as well, because she sees me happy, but she doesn't know why... maybe a bit silly, but this is the way it is...

 

My next stage would be: do I want to rekindle our relationship? The answer at the moment is "no". Why? Because I don't want to be hurt again. If she were to go to therapy, maybe, but she'll never do that, because she doesn't want to face her past. All her defence mechanisms are in place and she copes ok (so she says). Over the years, she's learnt how to deal with it. Unfortunately, that meant raising a barrier also against me...

[tnttim]

Giotto, your negative attitude precludes any attempts at lust. Like I said, no woman will react kindly.

[tnttim]

Here's an unconventional approach....

 

Does the real CR James grace us with his presence?

[mem11363]

G,

So as long as you don't bring up/complain about sex and you "pretend" you are satisfied with your marriage - she is happy and easy to get along with?

 

See I don't get it. Either she has all these emotional problems in which case she is NOT easy to get along with or she is fairly well adjusted and is easy to get on with - even when you disagree about day to day life.

 

 

We haven't been saying "I love you" to each other for a very long time... (well, occasionally, after sex... she says it, and I just reply "me too", but it feels fake...), so that wouldn't work . I think we both know it's finished, although she is making an effort to keep me here. On the other hand, since I decided it's finished, I'm much happier and so she is happy as well, because she sees me happy, but she doesn't know why... maybe a bit silly, but this is the way it is...

 

My next stage would be: do I want to rekindle our relationship? The answer at the moment is "no". Why? Because I don't want to be hurt again. If she were to go to therapy, maybe, but she'll never do that, because she doesn't want to face her past. All her defence mechanisms are in place and she copes ok (so she says). Over the years, she's learnt how to deal with it. Unfortunately, that meant raising a barrier also against me...

[giotto]

Giotto, your negative attitude precludes any attempts at lust. Like I said, no woman will react kindly.

 

I'm not negative anymore... I don't really care about lust anymore...

[giotto]

G,

So as long as you don't bring up/complain about sex and you "pretend" you are satisfied with your marriage - she is happy and easy to get along with?

 

yes...

 

See I don't get it. Either she has all these emotional problems in which case she is NOT easy to get along with or she is fairly well adjusted and is easy to get on with - even when you disagree about day to day life.

 

She has lots of emotional and mental problems, but she has learnt how to deal with them, so she is generally easy to get along with... it's only if I put her under pressure for whatever reason that she withdraws in herself... it's her defence mechanism... as I said in other threads, I put her under a lot of pressure about sex in the past (but she would not say why she would not have sex with me - now I know it was because of her issues, which were much worse than I thought) and she now associates sex with that negative feeling and she hates it... so, the only way is not to ask for sex, but this often means 2-3 weeks of no sex, because she has no libido.

 

It's such a complicated situation (I'm pretty much sure she doesn't see me a sexual object anymore) that I've just given up... I can't fix her and she won't fix herself... I can't put her under pressure for this, because I make things even worse... I'm stuck...

[JamesM]

 

It's such a complicated situation (I'm pretty much sure she doesn't see me a sexual object anymore) that I've just given up... I can't fix her and she won't fix herself... I can't put her under pressure for this, because I make things even worse... I'm stuck...

 

And that is, I am guessing, the biggest reason for your frustration, anger, resentment, and general feeling of depression. As soon as you no longer feel stuck, then I think you will feel a big burden lift off of your shoulders.

 

The question is how not to feel stuck.

 

The only answers are.....

 

1. Focus on something else other than your marriage.

2. Focus on someone else other than your wife.

3. Focus on yourself...and leave.

 

How you do each would be up to you.

[giotto]

 

1. Focus on something else other than your marriage.

2. Focus on someone else other than your wife.

3. Focus on yourself...and leave.

 

How you do each would be up to you.

 

 

It's number 1 at the moment... focussing on something else will help me keep my sanity... I have accepted that there is not a lot I can do about it until she fixes herself... maybe one day she will. I have stopped seeing her in a sexual way and more as a friend. Maybe it's sad, but it helps at the moment. It's better than divorce... that's for sure...

[Phateless]

It's number 1 at the moment... focussing on something else will help me keep my sanity... I have accepted that there is not a lot I can do about it until she fixes herself... maybe one day she will. I have stopped seeing her in a sexual way and more as a friend. Maybe it's sad, but it helps at the moment. It's better than divorce... that's for sure...

 

You're letting her have it both ways. She won't grow up and deal with this unless it's costing her something she values. Tell her you need a break and go crash with a buddy for a month. This woman won't take you seriously until she knows these things are deal-breakers.

 

You can SAY they're deal-breakers until you're blue in the face, but unless you actually try to leave her, she won't believe you. Don't listen to what she says, listen to what she does.

[giotto]

You're letting her have it both ways. She won't grow up and deal with this unless it's costing her something she values. Tell her you need a break and go crash with a buddy for a month. This woman won't take you seriously until she knows these things are deal-breakers.

 

You can SAY they're deal-breakers until you're blue in the face, but unless you actually try to leave her, she won't believe you. Don't listen to what she says, listen to what she does.

 

'course, but I've given up on the sex thing and my marriage and I'm concentrating on my kids. Funnily enough, we had sex a few days ago and she was as horny as hell... well, it's been a few years since I've witnessed such "involvement"... unfortunately, I have no desire to try and re-kindle our relationship now... too late... so, thanks for the advice, but I've moved on...

[Phateless]

'course, but I've given up on the sex thing and my marriage and I'm concentrating on my kids. Funnily enough, we had sex a few days ago and she was as horny as hell... well, it's been a few years since I've witnessed such "involvement"... unfortunately, I have no desire to try and re-kindle our relationship now... too late... so, thanks for the advice, but I've moved on...

 

I bet that's why she's finally starting to come back a little. Too bad people don't figure their sh*t out until it's too late...

[mem11363]

G,

Do you think your wife finds your emotional distance erotic? In her mind, have you turned into the "bad boy" who doesn't really care what she wants and what she does?

 

If so I have one very important suggestion. Don't revert to prior pattern. Stay indifferent. Not cruel or angry just indifferent. See what happens.

 

 

 

'course, but I've given up on the sex thing and my marriage and I'm concentrating on my kids. Funnily enough, we had sex a few days ago and she was as horny as hell... well, it's been a few years since I've witnessed such "involvement"... unfortunately, I have no desire to try and re-kindle our relationship now... too late... so, thanks for the advice, but I've moved on...

[giotto]

G,

Do you think your wife finds your emotional distance erotic? In her mind, have you turned into the "bad boy" who doesn't really care what she wants and what she does?

 

If so I have one very important suggestion. Don't revert to prior pattern. Stay indifferent. Not cruel or angry just indifferent. See what happens.

 

I have no intention to revert back to anything... and I don't really know what's going on in her head and I don't really care, to be honest... Also, yes, Phateless, too late indeed, but I'm not complaining (learnt to do that as well....)

 

P.S. I'm not going to turn down sex if it happens... a bit of relief is good from time to time and I enjoy it more because, as far as I'm concerned, there are no strings attached...

Edited June 22, 2010 by giotto

[Toodamnpragmatic]

G,

Do you think your wife finds your emotional distance erotic? In her mind, have you turned into the "bad boy" who doesn't really care what she wants and what she does?

 

If so I have one very important suggestion. Don't revert to prior pattern. Stay indifferent. Not cruel or angry just indifferent. See what happens.

 

Alpha Male, indifference the only way to sex with the sexless spouse..... Please stop!!!

 

My wife again stated that she knows I want it, though I have said nothing and made very, very few overtures of late or even discussed my issues/problems. She stated simply, I don't need to say anything, she knows..... Thus Alpha or indifference holds no water in this case.

 

Oh yea, don't forget the fact that Giotto, JamesM and I have wives that are "horny as hell" in my books as all of them orgasm 90%+ of the time..... Heck JamesM's wife (or was it Giotto's) did so just rubbing up to him on her knees......

[giotto]

Heck JamesM's wife (or was it Giotto's) did so just rubbing up to him on her knees......

 

it was my wife... I don't need the alpha male thing, really... as TDP says, our wives know us incredibly well and my wife would know straightaway why I'm doing it... I'm not being nasty to her and I'm not ignoring her... I just go to sleep and don't wait up just in case... turn the light off and that's it! If she thinks I want it (usually 10 days/2 weeks after the previous encounter) she tells me it will be the following day... I don't know what's going on and I don't really care... maybe it shows and she is a bit worried... but it's only speculations...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

it was my wife... I don't need the alpha male thing, really... as TDP says, our wives know us incredibly well and my wife would know straightaway why I'm doing it... I'm not being nasty to her and I'm not ignoring her... I just go to sleep and don't wait up just in case... turn the light off and that's it! If she thinks I want it (usually 10 days/2 weeks after the previous encounter) she tells me it will be the following day... I don't know what's going on and I don't really care... maybe it shows and she is a bit worried... but it's only speculations...

 

I can only imagine how envious mem11363 is.... The point is at your spouse & mine know when enough is enough and we need relief.... For mem it is every 2-3 days, but not necessarily with the same fireworks on her part;)....

 

That is why we are so confused and I keep asking the Orgasm=Enjoyment and what is so hard for a male to understand.....

[mem11363]

TDP,

There is a great psych test where a series of images are displayed. In each one there are starkly different embedded "pictures". In one you typically either see a vase or two opposing faces. Most people see one or the other initially but almost everyone is able to see the alternate picture when it is pointed out.

 

It seems you struggle to see the alternate embedded picture even when it is pointed out. You only seem to see the "orgasm" in the picture. The reason I find that so surprising is simple. Men and women are wired so differently in terms of sexual equipment. Average male time from arousal to orgasm is so much faster than that of the average female time that for most of our evolutionary history female orgasm was by far the exception, not the norm. So why did they have sex - willingly have sex again and again? Sure it felt good - but it wasn't for the O. It was primarily, sometimes even solely to bond their male partner to them emotionally.

 

Read the boards - there is some VERY powerful sexual circuitry at work directly linked to the male bonding level. And we aren't talking the slow drop off caused by boredom or aging. We are seeing very rapid drops directly correlated to the strength of the male emotional bond.

 

My W is no different. The real payoff for her is the "closeness". But if we were that "close" all the time I think she would react very differently to me.

 

So the indifference thing wasn't about being alpha or sexually indifferent. It was about being more emotionally detached. Until you release your fixation on "orgasm" you have zero chance of improving your situation.

 

 

I can only imagine how envious mem11363 is.... The point is at your spouse & mine know when enough is enough and we need relief.... For mem it is every 2-3 days, but not necessarily with the same fireworks on her part;)....

 

That is why we are so confused and I keep asking the Orgasm=Enjoyment and what is so hard for a male to understand.....