How I got MY wife into sex

[JamesM]

Alpha Male, indifference the only way to sex with the sexless spouse..... Please stop!!!

 

 

Thus Alpha or indifference holds no water in this case.

 

I would agree that indifference may not always work, but a slightly different twist is that just like men, women like to chase. So if a man is always "begging" for sex, then if he backs off and actually appears (and means it...that is the catch) to no longer desire as much sex, the wife may actually begin chasing him.

 

When men are at the beck and call of women, then a wife knows that when she wants it, HE will want it.

 

 

Oh yea, don't forget the fact that Giotto, JamesM and I have wives that are "horny as hell" in my books as all of them orgasm 90%+ of the time..... Heck JamesM's wife (or was it Giotto's) did so just rubbing up to him on her knees......

 

No, my wife is not that "horny." Correction...she doesn't orgasm by rubbing my leg. And correction....while she can be multiorgasmic at times, she does not orgasm 90% of the time. It depends on the mood and the moment.

[JamesM]

TDP,

There is a great psych test where a series of images are displayed. In each one there are starkly different embedded "pictures". In one you typically either see a vase or two opposing faces. Most people see one or the other initially but almost everyone is able to see the alternate picture when it is pointed out.

 

It seems you struggle to see the alternate embedded picture even when it is pointed out. You only seem to see the "orgasm" in the picture. The reason I find that so surprising is simple. Men and women are wired so differently in terms of sexual equipment. Average male time from arousal to orgasm is so much faster than that of the average female time that for most of our evolutionary history female orgasm was by far the exception, not the norm. So why did they have sex - willingly have sex again and again? Sure it felt good - but it wasn't for the O. It was primarily, sometimes even solely to bond their male partner to them emotionally.

 

Read the boards - there is some VERY powerful sexual circuitry at work directly linked to the male bonding level. And we aren't talking the slow drop off caused by boredom or aging. We are seeing very rapid drops directly correlated to the strength of the male emotional bond.

 

My W is no different. The real payoff for her is the "closeness". But if we were that "close" all the time I think she would react very differently to me.

 

So the indifference thing wasn't about being alpha or sexually indifferent. It was about being more emotionally detached. Until you release your fixation on "orgasm" you have zero chance of improving your situation.

 

It is not often that I agree with mem lately , but here I do.

 

For many women, it is not about the orgasm. It is about the connection and pleasure they also derive from giving pleasure to the man they love.

 

If my wife thought that the pressure was there (and she has in the past) to orgasm every time, then she would feel less enjoyment. She MAY orgasm even when she planned on only enjoying the foreplay and pleasure and connection, but she does not HAVE to orgasm to derive enjoyment from sex.

[giotto]

my wife orgasms every time... I think she hasn't climaxed only 4 times in 25 years... But it's not really down to me...

[mem11363]

James,

Totally agree with this. There are two types of chase:

- direct sexual chase (she pursues and you either say yes/no) if her batting average is 1,000 this is not a very exciting activity. Sort of like chasing a turtle.

- EMOTIONAL chase - this is when she is attempting to bond you closer

 

The second chase can be far more interesting. And typically sex is a part of making it happen. But if getting laid once every 15 days produces 14 days of "hovering husband" asking "what can I do for you darling?" then this chase is not so interesting either.

 

 

I would agree that indifference may not always work, but a slightly different twist is that just like men, women like to chase. So if a man is always "begging" for sex, then if he backs off and actually appears (and means it...that is the catch) to no longer desire as much sex, the wife may actually begin chasing him.

 

When men are at the beck and call of women, then a wife knows that when she wants it, HE will want it.

 

 

 

 

No, my wife is not that "horny." Correction...she doesn't orgasm by rubbing my leg. And correction....while she can be multiorgasmic at times, she does not orgasm 90% of the time. It depends on the mood and the moment.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It is not often that I agree with mem lately , but here I do.

 

For many women, it is not about the orgasm. It is about the connection and pleasure they also derive from giving pleasure to the man they love.

 

If my wife thought that the pressure was there (and she has in the past) to orgasm every time, then she would feel less enjoyment. She MAY orgasm even when she planned on only enjoying the foreplay and pleasure and connection, but she does not HAVE to orgasm to derive enjoyment from sex.

 

I read way too much and mem11363 you do not know her and her issues/demons... I am nearing the Giotto point (not lack of love or divorce), but just indifference and not worrying......

 

She may care for the closeness and/or pleasing but very little about the selflessness..... If she did, like JamesM or Giotto (sorry to drag you two in), they would have sex a minimum of 1X/week, knowing that is still not enough..... And you know what they'd orgasm 1X/wk and wham/bam thank you maam, it would be done in less time then it takes to watch their favorite (or not so favorite) TV show.

 

It goes much deeper then that, and not in most cases because they "do not love us".... Really mem11363 it also has nothing to do (in my case) with Alpha/beat or to much attention/indifference either.....

[xxoo]

That is why we are so confused and I keep asking the Orgasm=Enjoyment and what is so hard for a male to understand.....

 

Can I throw in another thought about this orgasm=enjoyment idea?

 

I can orgasm alone. In fact, orgasm is more guaranteed and EASIER alone. If all I want is an orgasm, I'm not likely to seek my H out for that.

 

I seek him out for sex because I want the connection, I want to feel desired, I want his touch (separate from orgasm, I enjoy his touch and smell so damn much), his participation, his pleasure, etc. Orgasm is not really a primary reason that I seek my H out for sex.

 

One more point: if my orgasm were really-really, super-duper important to my H each and every time, I would probably initiate less because of performance anxiety. I'd only initiate when I was highly turned on and very confident I could O easily. That is probably only a few times a month, but I initiate all month long for other reasons.

 

FTR, I do orgasm with him most of the time, but not all. I really don't want pressure to orgasm the times that I don't.

[mem11363]

X,

You are channeling my wife verbatim with the post below.

 

 

 

Can I throw in another thought about this orgasm=enjoyment idea?

 

I can orgasm alone. In fact, orgasm is more guaranteed and EASIER alone. If all I want is an orgasm, I'm not likely to seek my H out for that.

 

I seek him out for sex because I want the connection, I want to feel desired, I want his touch (separate from orgasm, I enjoy his touch and smell so damn much), his participation, his pleasure, etc. Orgasm is not really a primary reason that I seek my H out for sex.

 

One more point: if my orgasm were really-really, super-duper important to my H each and every time, I would probably initiate less because of performance anxiety. I'd only initiate when I was highly turned on and very confident I could O easily. That is probably only a few times a month, but I initiate all month long for other reasons.

 

FTR, I do orgasm with him most of the time, but not all. I really don't want pressure to orgasm the times that I don't.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Can I throw in another thought about this orgasm=enjoyment idea?

 

I can orgasm alone. In fact, orgasm is more guaranteed and EASIER alone. If all I want is an orgasm, I'm not likely to seek my H out for that.

 

I seek him out for sex because I want the connection, I want to feel desired, I want his touch (separate from orgasm, I enjoy his touch and smell so damn much), his participation, his pleasure, etc. Orgasm is not really a primary reason that I seek my H out for sex.

 

One more point: if my orgasm were really-really, super-duper important to my H each and every time, I would probably initiate less because of performance anxiety. I'd only initiate when I was highly turned on and very confident I could O easily. That is probably only a few times a month, but I initiate all month long for other reasons.

 

FTR, I do orgasm with him most of the time, but not all. I really don't want pressure to orgasm the times that I don't.

 

She only wants sex 2x's/mth (and just throwing a number out there) because it is only about her having an orgasm or else it is not really worth it...... Guess what???? I'd probably be okay with it. That however is not the case and thus not the argument here. She has then almost every time, so I joke, let's see if we can DO IT and ENJOY IT 2X's/wk.... Seems reasonable to me..... And no I am 100% certain she does not do it alone and hasn't in probably 25-30 years. It is just not in her make-up and I that I know for a fact.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Phateless]

You guys are ALL kidding yourselves. If you want things to change you need to shock these selfish women out of their complacency. They take all of you for granted in every way.

 

Tell them that this relationship isn't working for you and you want out, because of the things you've discussed with them 100 times. I guarantee they will suddenly be motivated to work on it, and you might even start getting laid again.

[mem11363]

We have 2 dogs and a cat. The dogs are - well dogs. They want attention and give unconditional love. The cats is - pure cat. Difficult little bastard who acts like I am his pet. Little feline nightmare occasionally mistakes my fingers/toes for prey and draws blood. Neither dog would EVER think about breaking skin much less growling at me.

 

And yet - I LOVE my cat. The dogs are irritating.

 

Your fear of your wife comes through in your posts. In years of posting you have never described a single action you have taken that might REALLY get her attention. It is all about how you do x,y and z and she doesn't meet your needs. Complaining to her doesn't count - in fact it just makes things worse. That is just talking about how YOU feel bad - no impact on her. In fact you worry about HER leaving you - especially ironic with you being the 70% bread winner.

 

I am going to extend the cat analogy here. We play like cats - the wrestling (more verbal than physical of late ), claws retracted - play biting only. Very very fun. But if either of us extends claws, furs stands on edge stares the other in the eye and says "do you want to go at it for real?" - the recipient thinks long and hard before making their next move. Playing with someone who is cute and cuddly and fun and playful and underneath it all capable of slicing you open very quickly, now THAT is a turn on.

 

Playful + slightly detached + dangerous = HOT

 

She only wants sex 2x's/mth (and just throwing a number out there) because it is only about her having an orgasm or else it is not really worth it...... Guess what???? I'd probably be okay with it. That however is not the case and thus not the argument here. She has then almost every time, so I joke, let's see if we can DO IT and ENJOY IT 2X's/wk.... Seems reasonable to me..... And no I am 100% certain she does not do it alone and hasn't in probably 25-30 years. It is just not in her make-up and I that I know for a fact.

[JamesM]

You guys are ALL kidding yourselves. If you want things to change you need to shock these selfish women out of their complacency. They take all of you for granted in every way.

 

Tell them that this relationship isn't working for you and you want out, because of the things you've discussed with them 100 times. I guarantee they will suddenly be motivated to work on it, and you might even start getting laid again.

 

As one who has done this (and dragging Giotto into this, too, who I think has done this), this is at best a short term fix.

 

Funny thing is...the motivation here is fear...not love. So she may be motivated to change out of love in her mind, but in reality, she changes out of the fear of losing her husband. Eventually that fear disappears. The only way to keep the sex coming (pardon the pun ) is by bringing back the fear or actually following through with a divorce or separation. Most of us do not want divorce and if we only wanted sex, we would either cheat or leave. Sex with the wife equals connection and love. If that connection results from a fear of losing me, then how can it be equal to a connection based on love?

 

In my case, the "fix" lasted about four to six months. Now at least I am confident that the "fix" is built on love.

[xxoo]

She only wants sex 2x's/mth (and just throwing a number out there) because it is only about her having an orgasm or else it is not really worth it...... Guess what???? I'd probably be okay with it. That however is not the case and thus not the argument here. She has then almost every time, so I joke, let's see if we can DO IT and ENJOY IT 2X's/wk.... Seems reasonable to me..... And no I am 100% certain she does not do it alone and hasn't in probably 25-30 years. It is just not in her make-up and I that I know for a fact.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you....and I think you might be proving my point....

 

This:

 

"let's see if we can DO IT and ENJOY IT 2X's/wk.... Seems reasonable to me....."

 

might give me performance anxiety if I knew that YOU had an expectation for my orgasm. I'd be more likely to avoid sex until I was really, really turned on.

 

Since sex is more laidback for us than that, I have no reason to avoid, kwim? Sure, let's connect and see what happens--but no pressure. Works for me.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Can I throw in another thought about this orgasm=enjoyment idea?

 

I seek him out for sex because I want the connection, I want to feel desired, I want his touch (separate from orgasm, I enjoy his touch and smell so damn much), his participation, his pleasure, etc. Orgasm is not really a primary reason that I seek my H out for sex.

 

 

 

So IN SOME CASES women who don't have sex with their husbands simply don't want / need a connection with their husband more than once in a blue moon? Maybe I'm reading it wrongly, but that doesn't sound altogether encouraging.

[xxoo]

So IN SOME CASES women who don't have sex with their husbands simply don't want / need a connection with their husband more than once in a blue moon? Maybe I'm reading it wrongly, but that doesn't sound altogether encouraging.

 

I wonder about that--what kind of "connection" is happening, if any, in these low-sex marriages?

 

I suppose a woman could get that need met through cuddling and touching. I imagine that, at some point in our marriage (old age), it will be all cuddles

 

But, if there is little touch in general--does that mean the woman simply doesn't want/need a connection, sex or otherwise? Or does that mean she'd like a connection/touch, but avoids it because touch leads to obvious male arousal, and percieved pressure for sex?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'm not sure I'm following you....and I think you might be proving my point....

 

This:

 

"let's see if we can DO IT and ENJOY IT 2X's/wk.... Seems reasonable to me....."

 

might give me performance anxiety if I knew that YOU had an expectation for my orgasm. I'd be more likely to avoid sex until I was really, really turned on.

 

Since sex is more laidback for us than that, I have no reason to avoid, kwim? Sure, let's connect and see what happens--but no pressure. Works for me.

 

I am the one doing the work (tmi) and wanting to make sure it is "good" for her. I am the one who has no trouble orgasming and wanting it more. I am lost at your post as my spouse never has "performance anxiety" because it is just not that important to her, even though it works and is enjoyable. That is why I don't understand it.... I like doing things that are enjoyable and would like to find a common ground where it is still enjoyable but never mundane..... Heck I like vanilla ice cream and it is enjoyable almost every day if I wanted it..... But 2X's/wk would be plenty....

 

Sorry headed off on a tangent.....;)

[mem11363]

X,

Our weeks are typically like this:

- "ON" at most once a week she is aroused before I do anything and initiates

- "Neutral" a few days a week she is arousable and open to connecting

- "OFF" a few days a week she is either tired, or just doesn't want to for whatever reason

 

I am grateful she has this mindset and since she is easy to read I never initiate on an "off" night so there is no conflict. Is this at all similar to your situation?

 

The reason I ask is it seems in a lot of marriages - the wife is mostly "OFF". I have to admit that would be very upsetting to me if that happened to us. I have zero problem with "Neutral". But if she was "OFF" most of the time, that would eventually make me feel unattractive.

 

 

I wonder about that--what kind of "connection" is happening, if any, in these low-sex marriages?

 

I suppose a woman could get that need met through cuddling and touching. I imagine that, at some point in our marriage (old age), it will be all cuddles

 

But, if there is little touch in general--does that mean the woman simply doesn't want/need a connection, sex or otherwise? Or does that mean she'd like a connection/touch, but avoids it because touch leads to obvious male arousal, and percieved pressure for sex?

Edited June 24, 2010 by mem11363

[giotto]

my wife is "off" most nights and "neutral" when we do have sex... last time she got herself aroused in half the time she usually takes and she was pretty wild during sex... no idea what's going on... but I believe that the pressure is off for her so she is more willing... by pressure I don't actually mean me being grumpy and resentful - that state of mind left me many months ago - but actually not caring at all... obviously, she is getting that vibe. Having said that, it's too early to speculate.

 

On a general note, there are so many factors that could stop a woman actually wanting sex - even if she orgasms easily and almost always - that I've given up analysing... no connection, too much connection, too touchy, too cold, too fat/hairy/no hygiene, too alpha, too beta, not man enough, too mean, too controlling, too much porn, too much beer, not good with the kids, too good with the kids, don't look like George Clooney...

Edited June 24, 2010 by giotto

[Toodamnpragmatic]

my wife is "off" most nights and "neutral" when we do have sex... last time she got herself aroused in half the time she usually takes and she was pretty wild during sex... no idea what's going on... but I believe that the pressure is off for her so she is more willing... by pressure I don't actually mean me being grumpy and resentful - that state of mind left me many months ago - but actually not caring at all... obviously, she is getting that vibe. Having said that, it's too early to speculate.

 

On a general note, there are so many factors that could stop a woman actually wanting sex - even if she orgasms easily and almost always - that I've given up analysing... no connection, too much connection, too touchy, too cold, too fat/hairy/no hygiene, too alpha, too beta, not man enough, too mean, too controlling, too much porn, too much beer, not good with the kids, too good with the kids, don't look like George Clooney...

 

I just put it down to her just not thinking about it or realizing the importance of it.... Now please let's not start trying to make sense of it..... Fortunately it is summer and I can run, play tennis or golf and focus my energy elsewhere.....

[tnttim]

Soo giving her the impression that you are leaving her puts her in the mood. Then why don't you break down her feelings and figure what components of you leaving turns her on. Let's say its jealously of seeing another woman with you. Then you can emulate those feelings in her by simply being attractive to other women in her presence. Maybe its fear of being alone, then spend less time with her, or don't communicate as much. It could 100 different components of you leaving. Its up to you to figure out what one motivates her to have sex with you. Then once you figure it out for sure, cut her off til she fully initiates sex. Then let her have sex with you. Emulate the component that turns her on and repeat til she gets in the habit of initiating sex.

 

To the woman who only Os twice a month. If your H knew how to push your buttons do you think your desire would go up. My W Os with me every time, and its not solely based on my performance. IMO the build up before the sex is what makes it easier for her to O. One time she kept trying to get me to initiate sex the whole day. Each time I didn't jump at the opportunity, she would then up the anti. By 8 PM she was literally naked sitting next to me, and I still refused until she fully initiated later that night. She didn't even want oral, she came after about 3 seconds. My performance meant nothing. Are getting my point? Challenge your H, a little, cut him off but tell him when you mad it turns me off completely. Tell him its going to take more than that. Tell him to read a book.

[xxoo]

To the woman who only Os twice a month. If your H knew how to push your buttons do you think your desire would go up.

 

Are you referring to me?

 

I didn't say I only O twice a month. I said I go into sex knowing "I'm definitely going to O" a few times a month. I actually O nearly every day--twice with H last night

 

But my point is, last night (a 2 orgasm night) I got into bed completely sexually neutral. I didn't know, getting into bed last night, that it would be a "good night". If I felt any pressure at all to have an O with each "connection", I might have avoided any kind of sexual touch that night---thinking O might not happen.

 

eta...I have no doubt my H knows how to push my buttons!

[xxoo]

X,

Our weeks are typically like this:

- "ON" at most once a week she is aroused before I do anything and initiates

- "Neutral" a few days a week she is arousable and open to connecting

- "OFF" a few days a week she is either tired, or just doesn't want to for whatever reason

 

I am grateful she has this mindset and since she is easy to read I never initiate on an "off" night so there is no conflict. Is this at all similar to your situation?

 

The reason I ask is it seems in a lot of marriages - the wife is mostly "OFF". I have to admit that would be very upsetting to me if that happened to us. I have zero problem with "Neutral". But if she was "OFF" most of the time, that would eventually make me feel unattractive.

 

I'm "on" (highly pre-aroused) a few times a month, but usually clustered in a certain week--not necessarily spaced once a week. That's why I wonder about the women who allow sex once a month and orgasm--is it related to that one extremely horny week a month many women have?

 

I'm pretty much "neutral" the rest of the time these days.

 

When I'm "off" (rare, but sometimes lasts for a while--if due to illness or whatever), I'm very upfront about being "off". There is never any conflict, because we both know why I'm "off"--and H just deals with is. We talk about it lots, though. I get apologetic, and he ends up comforting me

[giotto]

If I felt any pressure at all to have an O with each "connection", I might have avoided any kind of sexual touch that night---thinking O might not happen.

 

just out of curiosity (since you are a woman... - you are a woman, aren't you? Sometimes I think your are some kind of extraterrestrial creature... )... Would you still have sex with your husband if he put you regularly under pressure to have sex? Would that put you off?

[mem11363]

The whole "Off" for a reason thing provokes same reaction in me. Actually - her "on" days are also clustered more. I gave an average. There are definitely times she is "Neutral" for a couple/three weeks in a row.

 

 

 

I'm "on" (highly pre-aroused) a few times a month, but usually clustered in a certain week--not necessarily spaced once a week. That's why I wonder about the women who allow sex once a month and orgasm--is it related to that one extremely horny week a month many women have?

 

I'm pretty much "neutral" the rest of the time these days.

 

When I'm "off" (rare, but sometimes lasts for a while--if due to illness or whatever), I'm very upfront about being "off". There is never any conflict, because we both know why I'm "off"--and H just deals with is. We talk about it lots, though. I get apologetic, and he ends up comforting me

[xxoo]

just out of curiosity (since you are a woman... - you are a woman, aren't you? Sometimes I think your are some kind of extraterrestrial creature... )... Would you still have sex with your husband if he put you regularly under pressure to have sex? Would that put you off?

 

YES! Pressure would piss me off and turn me off. As does hanging on me, commenting on my hotness when I am trying to cook a meal, etc.

 

It is fairly easy to turn me off, actually. But I'm very upfront and honest about the list

[giotto]

YES! Pressure would piss me off and turn me off. As does hanging on me, commenting on my hotness when I am trying to cook a meal, etc.

 

It is fairly easy to turn me off, actually. But I'm very upfront and honest about the list

 

well, I suppose it was an easy answer... but you see, you have sex regularly with your husband, so I suppose you never had this "problem"...