How I got MY wife into sex

[xxoo]

well, I suppose it was an easy answer... but you see, you have sex regularly with your husband, so I suppose you never had this "problem"...

 

But there have been times...

 

When we were dating, I got really sick and we probably had no sex whatsoever for at least 2-3 months. Maybe more....I was sick for a few months. The way he stood by me during that time solidified my desire to marry him (and have lots of sex with him, lol).

 

After each baby, sex was 1x a month or so for about 12-18 months.

 

I was injured earlier this year, and there was no sex for about 3 weeks.

 

Never any pressure.

[xxoo]

A hypothetical about O every time:

 

What would you and your partner prefer?

 

Sexual connection 4-8x a month, she Os every time. (total: 4-8 orgasms)

 

or

 

Sexual connection 15-25x a month, she Os 80% of the time (total: 12-20 orgasms)

 

Do you see that 20% that she doesn't O as a personal fail?

Because I see the net total of orgasms as a WIN!!!

 

My philosophy--if I only try when I know I will succeed, I miss out on a lot

[mem11363]

1/month for 18 months - well ok then - my opinion of your H just became high enough to actually cause me the beginning of an inferiority complex.

 

 

But there have been times...

 

When we were dating, I got really sick and we probably had no sex whatsoever for at least 2-3 months. Maybe more....I was sick for a few months. The way he stood by me during that time solidified my desire to marry him (and have lots of sex with him, lol).

 

After each baby, sex was 1x a month or so for about 12-18 months.

 

I was injured earlier this year, and there was no sex for about 3 weeks.

 

Never any pressure.

[xxoo]

1/month for 18 months - well ok then - my opinion of your H just became high enough to actually cause me the beginning of an inferiority complex.

 

Ha!

 

I know, mem, it was bad!

 

But it was bad for both of us. He honestly knew how much I wanted to have my drive back, and our fun back--but it just wasn't working out. So we mostly waited. That, and our babies never slept (seemingly), and opportunities were slim.

 

I can tell you with certainty that I never, ever want to be pregnant again He agrees Ha!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

A hypothetical about O every time:

 

What would you and your partner prefer?

 

Sexual connection 4-8x a month, she Os every time. (total: 4-8 orgasms)

 

or

 

Sexual connection 15-25x a month, she Os 80% of the time (total: 12-20 orgasms)

 

Do you see that 20% that she doesn't O as a personal fail?

Because I see the net total of orgasms as a WIN!!!

 

My philosophy--if I only try when I know I will succeed, I miss out on a lot

 

Yep it is a personal fail, as I do the majority of the work. Orgasm for me is way too easy :p;).... I'd be thrilled for 8X/mth.... 15-25 would be a pipe dream.......

[xxoo]

Yep it is a personal fail, as I do the majority of the work.

 

And I'm saying that, to me, as a woman, that is pressure to orgasm. If you will feel that you failed or succeeded based on my orgasm, I'm going to avoid sex unless my body is saying "yes, today!!!". I'm not going to feel comfortable trying when I'm "neutral".

 

You think you do the majority of the work, but you don't. Most of the work is done in a woman's head. We need to get in the right mental space.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

And I'm saying that, to me, as a woman, that is pressure to orgasm. If you will feel that you failed or succeeded based on my orgasm, I'm going to avoid sex unless my body is saying "yes, today!!!". I'm not going to feel comfortable trying when I'm "neutral".

 

You think you do the majority of the work, but you don't. Most of the work is done in a woman's head. We need to get in the right mental space.

 

Trust me that is not the case here. You do not know my spouse. Doesn't mean what you say does not hold merit.

[JamesM]

Trust me that is not the case here. You do not know my spouse. Doesn't mean what you say does not hold merit.

 

I think that what she is saying is...despite the fact that your wife simply lies there while you perform your magic...this does not mean that she isn't struggling to turn off the daily problems and duties rolling around in her head and attempting to focus on only what you are doing.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I think that what she is saying is...despite the fact that your wife simply lies there while you perform your magic...this does not mean that she isn't struggling to turn off the daily problems and duties rolling around in her head and attempting to focus on only what you are doing.

 

So old and tired yet again.... Then give me a new excuse for when we are on holidays, things are good, stress is low, house is spotless, has a great day, evening....... Always a new set of criteria, excuses and lists.

 

I do not expect my wife to have an orgasm, however I know she expects me to do my best to try and get her one......

 

I really need to stop this as it is giving me a headache.....

[giotto]

ok, I think I know at last... females are not able to detach themselves from the daily routine .... (put here what you like) to have sex... well, not often... we have to find that space in their heads and turn it into a positive one... correct? The thing is, I can find that space very well in my head and I can turn it into a very positive space, why can't my wife do that? I thought females were very good at multitasking...

[mem11363]

I know this happens to my W. I am glad she is honest about it. It used to happen a lot - back when my drive was so high that the Pelvic Command Center was running the show.

 

I think it is relatively rare now - as I can generally read her well enough to know when she has distracting "stuff" bouncing around in her head. When I get that read she gets soothing touch - but no sexual overtures.

 

Oddly - every once in a while this does work in reverse. She will directly say - lets play - it will take my mind off "...". Glad to oblige - I'm a giver.

 

 

 

I think that what she is saying is...despite the fact that your wife simply lies there while you perform your magic...this does not mean that she isn't struggling to turn off the daily problems and duties rolling around in her head and attempting to focus on only what you are doing.

[tnttim]

Then give me a new excuse for when we are on holidays, things are good, stress is low, house is spotless, has a great day, evening....... Always a new set of criteria, excuses and lists.

 

Ill give you the real reason, it has nothing to do with any of those things. You are not building sexual tension. A clean house is not a turn on, being on vacation isn't either.

 

Pay attention when she is in the mood for sex. What happened, what were you doing, what did you eat. Then the next time she is in the mood, pay attention again, and notice the similarities. Those will be her sexual triggers. Tell her stuff like, "are you hitting on me." for some reason that works well

 

Basically act like you just met her and you want to have sex with her but you can't express your want and you can't out right ask.

[xxoo]

ok, I think I know at last... females are not able to detach themselves from the daily routine .... (put here what you like) to have sex... well, not often... we have to find that space in their heads and turn it into a positive one... correct? The thing is, I can find that space very well in my head and I can turn it into a very positive space, why can't my wife do that? I thought females were very good at multitasking...

 

That's exactly it; we are too good at multitasking. You can't multitask sex. It requires being completely focused and in the moment, and we (I) struggle with that bit some days.

[giotto]

You can't multitask sex.

 

 

I can! :D

[mem11363]

X,

I think TNT is on to something here.

 

Some of the best terminology I have yet seen relating to this subject is below. Does this resonate?

 

Love busters: Behaviors that extinguish love and desire (any number of chronically annoying traits that the LD partner has - NOT helping around the house, with kids, NOT earning a decent salary, complaining about petty stuff)

 

Love kindlers: Behaviors that create a special kind of love - which is the desire to please your partner, and also those that directly incite passion: wearing certain clothing or cologne, watching a movie with a hot love scene, talking in a way that is hot - either in tone, or content). Being funny, or playful.

 

Reason this all makes sense to me is seems like a lot of males come on here with an A+ power list of love busters that they avoid. They clean the house, cook, help with the kids (special case - I do think for some women - when the H is effective at disciplining the kids that specific skill can be a kindler), have a good job. BUT there is little passion/little sex. And that comes back to the Tnt comment about passion.

 

For me - my wife wears a skirt and gives me a certain look - thats not kindling - its like napalm - instant desire. In fact she can love bust a little during the day (no one is perfect), and the skirt/look combo still ignites the same reaction.

 

Does this seem right? Is it like this for you or different?

 

 

That's exactly it; we are too good at multitasking. You can't multitask sex. It requires being completely focused and in the moment, and we (I) struggle with that bit some days.

[xxoo]

X,

I think TNT is on to something here.

 

Some of the best terminology I have yet seen relating to this subject is below. Does this resonate?

 

Love busters: Behaviors that extinguish love and desire (any number of chronically annoying traits that the LD partner has - NOT helping around the house, with kids, NOT earning a decent salary, complaining about petty stuff)

 

Love kindlers: Behaviors that create a special kind of love - which is the desire to please your partner, and also those that directly incite passion: wearing certain clothing or cologne, watching a movie with a hot love scene, talking in a way that is hot - either in tone, or content). Being funny, or playful.

 

Reason this all makes sense to me is seems like a lot of males come on here with an A+ power list of love busters that they avoid. They clean the house, cook, help with the kids (special case - I do think for some women - when the H is effective at disciplining the kids that specific skill can be a kindler), have a good job. BUT there is little passion/little sex. And that comes back to the Tnt comment about passion.

 

For me - my wife wears a skirt and gives me a certain look - thats not kindling - its like napalm - instant desire. In fact she can love bust a little during the day (no one is perfect), and the skirt/look combo still ignites the same reaction.

 

Does this seem right? Is it like this for you or different?

 

Yes, that seems right. The issue I have with tnt's posts is that his examples of "love kindlers" are "love busters" to me Talking about a woman or act that "all the guys" think is hot? That just sounds so immature and annoying to me It would turn me off.

 

But then, what do I know. I already like sex with my H

 

The only other thing that I'd point out (man/woman difference) is that "love kindlers" work on my H no matter how annoying I've been . That isn't necessarily true for women.

[mem11363]

In the moment - fighting with wife is a buster for both of us. So when we have conflict it disrupts sex while it lasts - usually 1-2 days. But the delayed reaction is definitely kindling. Not just talking make up sex.

 

If I didn't fight with her when I "should", that would be the ULTIMATE love buster. And apparently this has nothing to do with who ends up being right and who is wrong/apologizes. Lots of times it is 50/50 and we both apologize.

But it isn't about that. It is about the willingness to stand your ground when you think you are right - hopefully in a non-jerky way

 

 

 

Yes, that seems right. The issue I have with tnt's posts is that his examples of "love kindlers" are "love busters" to me Talking about a woman or act that "all the guys" think is hot? That just sounds so immature and annoying to me It would turn me off.

 

But then, what do I know. I already like sex with my H

 

The only other thing that I'd point out (man/woman difference) is that "love kindlers" work on my H no matter how annoying I've been . That isn't necessarily true for women.

[Honorable_Venerable]

X,

I think TNT is on to something here.

 

Some of the best terminology I have yet seen relating to this subject is below. Does this resonate?

 

Love busters: Behaviors that extinguish love and desire (any number of chronically annoying traits that the LD partner has - NOT helping around the house, with kids, NOT earning a decent salary, complaining about petty stuff)

 

Love kindlers: Behaviors that create a special kind of love - which is the desire to please your partner, and also those that directly incite passion: wearing certain clothing or cologne, watching a movie with a hot love scene, talking in a way that is hot - either in tone, or content). Being funny, or playful.

 

Reason this all makes sense to me is seems like a lot of males come on here with an A+ power list of love busters that they avoid. They clean the house, cook, help with the kids (special case - I do think for some women - when the H is effective at disciplining the kids that specific skill can be a kindler), have a good job. BUT there is little passion/little sex. And that comes back to the Tnt comment about passion.

 

For me - my wife wears a skirt and gives me a certain look - thats not kindling - its like napalm - instant desire. In fact she can love bust a little during the day (no one is perfect), and the skirt/look combo still ignites the same reaction.

 

Does this seem right? Is it like this for you or different?

 

Nope. Sex is a tradeable commodity, and it isn't a buyer's market. You can can avoid all the love busters, and do all the love kindlers, and get nothing. What the market requires to get sex is not defined, changes on a whim and cannot be predicted or quantified. She "lets" you have some when she thinks you're going to do something such that a whole pile of additional undesirable crap is going to land in HER lap (i.e. all the love kindler things that translate as scut work that you do that you'll stop doing). This is not about passion, it owes far more to the principles of minimum wage capitalism (i.e. you "pay" just enough to get what you want, knowing the poor worker can't go actually go anywhere else). Flirting with other women is usually a good way to get your face slapped by your partner, to be given the "priviledge" of sleeping alone on the couch or being used a stick to beat you with for infidelity, which of course helps your case enormously in a court of law.

[mem11363]

HV,

I really truly think that this part of a marriage has GOT to be addressed in a way that is mutually fair. And that fairness is predicated on a painful level of honesty.

 

The behavior you are experiencing reflects either a frightening level of indifference to your emotional well being, a total lack of desire to have sex with you or some combination of both.

 

I don't subscribe to half measures or to bluffing in this area. Some men suggest flirting with other women, talking about how attractive other women are, etc. That is at best a half measure and it seems silly to me.

 

The full measure conversation goes like this: It is obvious you find meeting my needs tiresome. So lets take that burden off you. I am not willing to be celibate or limited to self pleasuring. You are welcome to suggest an alternative to that or I will select one myself - most likely a discreet relationship with someone who does find me attractive.

 

I realize you think such a conversation tantamount to initiating divorce. But that isn't true. It is simply asserting a boundary. My boundary is that no one has the right to demand celibacy of me. Not even the most important person in my life. So either sex is important and matters - in which case she can choose to step up. Or it is not important and therefore she ought not get that upset if you have a "playmate". It really seems like you are allowing her to simultaneously claim that it is sacred, while treating it as totally unimportant. Why would you do that?

 

 

Nope. Sex is a tradeable commodity, and it isn't a buyer's market. You can can avoid all the love busters, and do all the love kindlers, and get nothing. What the market requires to get sex is not defined, changes on a whim and cannot be predicted or quantified. She "lets" you have some when she thinks you're going to do something such that a whole pile of additional undesirable crap is going to land in HER lap (i.e. all the love kindler things that translate as scut work that you do that you'll stop doing). This is not about passion, it owes far more to the principles of minimum wage capitalism (i.e. you "pay" just enough to get what you want, knowing the poor worker can't go actually go anywhere else). Flirting with other women is usually a good way to get your face slapped by your partner, to be given the "priviledge" of sleeping alone on the couch or being used a stick to beat you with for infidelity, which of course helps your case enormously in a court of law.

[Honorable_Venerable]

HV,

I really truly think that this part of a marriage has GOT to be addressed in a way that is mutually fair. And that fairness is predicated on a painful level of honesty.

 

The behavior you are experiencing reflects either a frightening level of indifference to your emotional well being, a total lack of desire to have sex with you or some combination of both.

Like I said, it's not a buyer's market. I can point this out but the reaction would be "Tough, go somewhere else - oh yeah, you can't! Live with it!"

 

The full measure conversation goes like this: It is obvious you find meeting my needs tiresome. So lets take that burden off you. I am not willing to be celibate or limited to self pleasuring. You are welcome to suggest an alternative to that or I will select one myself - most likely a discreet relationship with someone who does find me attractive.

 

I'm not saying YOU aren't right, but... See above.

 

I realize you think such a conversation tantamount to initiating divorce. But that isn't true. It is simply asserting a boundary. My boundary is that no one has the right to demand celibacy of me. Not even the most important person in my life. So either sex is important and matters - in which case she can choose to step up. Or it is not important and therefore she ought not get that upset if you have a "playmate". It really seems like you are allowing her to simultaneously claim that it is sacred, while treating it as totally unimportant. Why would you do that?

 

The trouble is that whilst the "sayer" might not see it as an initiation for divorce, the OTHER partner might. The problem is in the wording. Once married the idea is it's exclusive, monogamous and sacred. But it doesn't actually explicitly say "you have a right to expect a sex life". What you have signed up to is "You have given up the right to have sex with anyone else". The former has sex within marriage as an implicit part of the deal, whilst the latter is an explicit exclusion. There is no expectation that anyone has to "step up", but there is an implicit statement that getting a playmate has very severe consequences.

 

The deal is that to some it is sacred only in the exclusivity, not in the act. I'll post about my "progress" (in that progress ought to be the opposite of congress:laugh:) in a separate thread once I gather my thoughts more.

 

Cheers.

[xxoo]

But there is a difference between requiring sex and inspiring sex.

 

The ultimatum may lead to sex, but not necessarily passion. It probably won't fix any underlying issues.

 

The "love kindlers" will ideally keep passion alive, so that ultimatums are not needed.

 

My take: if a partner does not value your needs equally to their own, that is not a partner. Marriage dead, move on. A loving spouse never keeps someone beholden to a sexless marriage because they can

[mem11363]

Agree - going to eat my words. Glad you are here to correct me X.

 

The initial conversation actually is not an ultimatum - it is a request/demand for information. Better said:

 

I understand we have different drives. I need you to teach me how to get you from neutral to warm/hot because our current frequency level is causing me a LOT of distress.

 

That said - if you read HV's story it goes like this:

- Sex was great until marriage

- After marriage certain "acts" that had been common before marriage totally stopped

- When he asked directly about that he was told "married people don't do that"

- In addition - it seems there is a clear linkage between her providing a limited amount of sex in exchange for placing extraordinary/unreasonable demands/workload on him

 

Oddly enough - my extreme commitment to my W, is linked to her lack of abuse of that commitment. She would NEVER do something really bad and when confronted shrug and say "for better or worse - suck it up".

 

It seems that HV's wife is near certain that not only will he never leave, he will continue to be a standup H regardless of how poorly treated. Seems like a recipe for ongoing disaster to me.

 

 

 

But there is a difference between requiring sex and inspiring sex.

 

The ultimatum may lead to sex, but not necessarily passion. It probably won't fix any underlying issues.

 

The "love kindlers" will ideally keep passion alive, so that ultimatums are not needed.

 

My take: if a partner does not value your needs equally to their own, that is not a partner. Marriage dead, move on. A loving spouse never keeps someone beholden to a sexless marriage because they can

[Honorable_Venerable]

Agree - going to eat my words. Glad you are here to correct me X.

 

The initial conversation actually is not an ultimatum - it is a request/demand for information. Better said:

 

I understand we have different drives. I need you to teach me how to get you from neutral to warm/hot because our current frequency level is causing me a LOT of distress.

 

That said - if you read HV's story it goes like this:

- Sex was great until marriage

- After marriage certain "acts" that had been common before marriage totally stopped

- When he asked directly about that he was told "married people don't do that"

- In addition - it seems there is a clear linkage between her providing a limited amount of sex in exchange for placing extraordinary/unreasonable demands/workload on him

 

Oddly enough - my extreme commitment to my W, is linked to her lack of abuse of that commitment. She would NEVER do something really bad and when confronted shrug and say "for better or worse - suck it up".

 

It seems that HV's wife is near certain that not only will he never leave, he will continue to be a standup H regardless of how poorly treated. Seems like a recipe for ongoing disaster to me.

Mem - thanks for a very accurate, succinct summary of th previous discussion. I might use it for "scene setting". I think your great good fortune is that your marriage's "business model" is different, i.e. not based on the eighteenth century mill owner model, but something more co-operative.

[hopesndreams]

This has been a very interesting thread that I have followed.

 

It all comes down to this, from a woman's perspective, if she ain't wantin' to do the nasty with ya, she no longer loves ya or has a physical or mental ailment preventing her from doing so. Or, she has someone else in mind, that she would rather do the nasty with.

 

Guys, if you have to fight with and play games with your SO to do the deed, she just isn't feeling it.

[Honorable_Venerable]

This has been a very interesting thread that I have followed.

 

It all comes down to this, from a woman's perspective, if she ain't wantin' to do the nasty with ya, she no longer loves ya or has a physical or mental ailment preventing her from doing so. Or, she has someone else in mind, that she would rather do the nasty with.

 

Guys, if you have to fight with and play games with your SO to do the deed, she just isn't feeling it.

Or, she doesn't like sex, she never liked sex, and like eating vegetables as a kid, you do it when you had to, out of necessity, to get what you want, not out of desire. She may not want sex with anyone, not you, not him, not them. Now she has what she wants, why do what you don't want to? It's like when you move into your own house, and you don't serve broccoli when your parents come round - "I never liked it, and I'm sure as hell not eating it if I don't have to, and I don't have to pretend any more."