Author tnttim Posted October 14, 2010 Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 what I'm trying to explain to tim is that we are talking about two completely different scenarios, but he is convinced that we are not trying hard enough... personally, I've kind of given up... after threatening divorce twice, I've left it now in the hands of my wife (literally... )... after 13 days, last night my wife kindly communicated to me that we are going to have sex tonight... well, that's very nice of her... at least I don't have to perform for half an hour... Did you tell her you're not in the mood? Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 14, 2010 Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 Didn't you get the memo? If you follow the CR James' Book of Snake Oil , you W will automatically awaken sexually, sex, which has even if it has not crossed the radar IN HER ENTIRE LIFE will become hugely important, she will overnight, and as if by magic, understand your "sexual value" and everything will be wonderful. Oh, and at the same time take a large, strong umbrella with you - flying pigs can make a right old mess of you suit;) It's hard to trust your sarcasm when you didn't even try it! Aren't you the same one that threaded "how to change your sex life without changing a thing." I still laugh when I think about how that is such an oxymoron. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 14, 2010 Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 tnttim, here is one for ya!! I have sex about 2-3 times a week and have tried the "not go for it gameplan" and yeah she'll come around after about 10-12 days while I'm going freaking nuts wearing my hands out!! For me it's not just about SEX. I can whack off if it was :-) it's about closeness, emotion, foreplay, holding, kissing, sex is just the icing on the cake..... For me it's her making a move showing that she "Wants it too" the fact is she doesn't "want it" very much. She says "You say it's not about sex, but it is, because if we don't have sex I now you're disappointed. She is right!! While 2-3 times is cool...........I would want more, longer, more variety then we even have now. You read threads every so often about women who get tired of there men doing the 15 minutes and roll over routine!! That is what my wife prefers!! I want the prelude, the touching, carressing, nibbling, kissing, I often feel like she feels that it is too much work! I know I need to be grateful for the good sex life that I have now........gosh I feel hornier physically and needed affection her inititiating and being more into it.....now then ever. Glad you and your wife are doing well!! Faithfully married both sides, 3 kids, married 10yrs+ together 16yrs+. She has to be horny in order to cut her off effectively. Women get turned on differently than we do. What you should do is pay attention when sex is really good, or you know she really wants it. Try to think about all the things you did that day, down to every detail. All women have a sexual trigger. Then you try to recreate that trigger, like if you had to dress up for a special event, and her trigger was you dressing nice, then when you want to horny her up, dress nice. Or, you can make it seem like you want sex, and when you go to cash in, don't, just kiss her and say I love you. You can also do the opposite of what you usually do to initiate sex, like a back rub, then don't follow through with trying to get some from her. For my wife, I have found that if I make her feel really good about herself and pump her emotions up, the next day it's on. I just cut her off the last 3 days and last night she told me, "shower because we are having sex." So spit in CR Jame's eye if you want, but his methods and school of thought have worked wonders for me, but I took the time and tried it.... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Did you tell her you're not in the mood? No, because she then would think it's some kind of revenge and she won't speak to me for days... maybe I should do that, although antagonising her never worked in the past. Link to post Share on other sites
Honorable_Venerable Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 It's hard to trust your sarcasm when you didn't even try it! Aren't you the same one that threaded "how to change your sex life without changing a thing." I still laugh when I think about how that is such an oxymoron. The word you're looking for is actually "paradox". It's a paradox. That's why it's a difficult question to answer - somehow the mind games around the "Great Goat Girl" just didn't seem likely to help. Besides which, given what I know NOW, I suspect my W needs psychological help to deal with how her family was, rather than applying "advice" from an internet shyster like CR James. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 No, because she then would think it's some kind of revenge and she won't speak to me for days... maybe I should do that, although antagonising her never worked in the past. I say cut her off and deal with the insueing sh%t storm. Be a man and don't let it shake your foundation. Don't say "but you cut me off all the time." Just stand your ground and say you were simply not in the mood. You see then you get her to think that maybe it's her, maybe she's a turn off, maybe your cheating on her, whatever it is she will think about all day long. And how does she balance this internal conflict out, yes my friend, in the bedroom!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I say cut her off and deal with the insueing sh%t storm. Be a man and don't let it shake your foundation. Don't say "but you cut me off all the time." Just stand your ground and say you were simply not in the mood. You see then you get her to think that maybe it's her, maybe she's a turn off, maybe your cheating on her, whatever it is she will think about all day long. And how does she balance this internal conflict out, yes my friend, in the bedroom!!!! well, yes, that, or she will be happy that I'm not interested anymore... it's a balancing act the one I have to do. I might risk it, but then I might lose my sex life altogether. The thing is, I don't know and if it goes wrong I can say bye to sex... Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 His wife does not like sex. Full stop. She has tried really hard to get him to agree to live without sex as she apparently claims many of her friends do. IMO this tactic is the worst possible move in a situation like his. I say cut her off and deal with the insueing sh%t storm. Be a man and don't let it shake your foundation. Don't say "but you cut me off all the time." Just stand your ground and say you were simply not in the mood. You see then you get her to think that maybe it's her, maybe she's a turn off, maybe your cheating on her, whatever it is she will think about all day long. And how does she balance this internal conflict out, yes my friend, in the bedroom!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 His wife does not like sex. Full stop. she like sex, but she doesn't like being controlled... so, it has to be on her own terms. By doing what tim suggests, we would end up having sex every couple of months, because she is not that bothered about it... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 His wife does not like sex. Full stop. She has tried really hard to get him to agree to live without sex as she apparently claims many of her friends do. IMO this tactic is the worst possible move in a situation like his. Agree. How can "cutting off sex" in an already sexless marriage bring more sex into the marriage? As mem said...if the partner who is not into sex makes gestures to initiate sex and is turned down, then do you think that partner will keep initiating until there is sex? The only way I see that happening is if the wife really does like sex but is turned off by the continual begging/insistence/demanding for sex that her husband is doing. If that were the case, then perhaps she would begin chasing him if he quit chasing her. This would be a good option in those cases. Being that some of us have wives who actually profess to not really like sex...even if they themselves initiate it, then I don't see this as a good option. Then it would be like saying "Fine, if you don't want to play games with me, then I won't play games with you." My guess is that both partners would become even more distant to each other. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Hey believe me I didn't think it would work either, but I figured a lot of things I thought wouldn't work, did in fact work, like the no contact rule in a break up. When I did it my wife through fit and started punching the door, but I didn't react, I just said "hey I'm not on the mood." She was pissed that whole night, but again, I didn't feed into it. I remained calm, like nothing was wrong. The next day she took a shower and came in naked and just sat there waiting for me. I told myself, she has to initiate fully. That night she fully initiated and it was awesome. The next day she apologized to me for flipping out, and she said both people have to want it. IMO what happened in her mind was that she was no longer the authority on when we have sex, can you say that about your sex life? For you, your wife decides when, and how you have sex. After a while that becomes rigid and boring for both of you, and then they convince themselves that its the sex itself. Like I said before, for a woman it's all about the build up before sex. Cutting her off levels the playing field for you, now you are an authority too. Women respect authority, and deep down it drives her crazy to have a man in control of himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Agree. How can "cutting off sex" in an already sexless marriage bring more sex into the marriage? Because it shakes her foundation and beleifs that men cannot control themselves when it comes to sex. It challenges her sexuality as a woman, it makes her think she's gonna lose him, it makes her question what she's done in the past. The main thing is she is going to think about it for a while and that is what you want to do, get them to think about it. Plus, he now becomes a challenge for her, something she may want to conquer. The super main point is: you will never know until you try it. What do you have to lose, some lame sex in the future! Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 she like sex, but she doesn't like being controlled... so, it has to be on her own terms. By doing what tim suggests, we would end up having sex every couple of months, because she is not that bothered about it... You don't know that for sure if you've never cut her off before. You said it, she likes sex, but doesn't like being controlled. Wait a minute, sex is control, one person submits as the other controls, and then they hopefully switch roles, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Honorable_Venerable Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Because it shakes her foundation and beleifs that men cannot control themselves when it comes to sex. It challenges her sexuality as a woman, it makes her think she's gonna lose him, it makes her question what she's done in the past. The main thing is she is going to think about it for a while and that is what you want to do, get them to think about it. Plus, he now becomes a challenge for her, something she may want to conquer. Do you acknowledge the possibility that she might think "Thank God he's stopped bothering me about sex! Now I can just carry on and be glad I don't have to worry about THAT any more"? Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) It is incredible the amount of work and thought Mem has put into pleasing his wife. It almost amounts to a part time job, and he is constantly thinking and strategizing about what works and what doesn't. Just on the physical front alone -- he changed his entire body type for her. I don't know how much work it entailed to add 25 pounds of upper body muscle, but I'm thinking hours and hours per week. I just don't think many people would be willing to devote that much energy. They view sex within marriage as something that should more or less just "happen". But then they claim that the sex is of paramount importance. Edited October 17, 2010 by florence of suburbia Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Do you acknowledge the possibility that she might think "Thank God he's stopped bothering me about sex! Now I can just carry on and be glad I don't have to worry about THAT any more"? What?????? Women enjoy sex too You have a very warped perception of women dude. Besides your W, how many other women have you dated and had sex with? Link to post Share on other sites
Author tnttim Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 It is incredible the amount of work and thought Mem has put into pleasing his wife. It almost amounts to a part time job, and he is constantly thinking and strategizing about what works and what doesn't. Just on the physical front alone -- he changed his entire body type for her. I don't know how much work it entailed to add 25 pounds of upper body muscle, but I'm thinking hours and hours per week. I just don't think many people would be willing to devote that much energy. They view sex within marriage as something that should more or less just "happen". But then they claim that the sex is of paramount importance. I think Mem is placing a lot of credit in his physical attributes, when it's his attitude that perculates his W's sex drive. I have a friend that all the women say is hot, and how much they would love to have sex with him. Yet he hardly ever gets laid and can't find a relationship. WHY? he has no game and he acts like a selfish little kid. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 The upper body thing was simply a restoration project. I had it when we met and kept it for most of our marriage. I "like" how I feel when I work out. It takes about 2 hours a week and I watch tv while I lift. I don't consider it a burden at all. That said TNT is right about the behavioral stuff. That is the biggest driver, the physical piece is just an amplifier though not a small one. And the behavioral stuff - wow - maybe I am coming across poorly but being funny, and kind AND assertive and generous is how I am with all my friends. I only get into "sex specific" behaviors when she goes temporarily mad and that is maybe once a year and my response typically lasts one day. I think Mem is placing a lot of credit in his physical attributes, when it's his attitude that perculates his W's sex drive. I have a friend that all the women say is hot, and how much they would love to have sex with him. Yet he hardly ever gets laid and can't find a relationship. WHY? he has no game and he acts like a selfish little kid. Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The upper body thing was simply a restoration project. I had it when we met and kept it for most of our marriage. I "like" how I feel when I work out. It takes about 2 hours a week and I watch tv while I lift. I don't consider it a burden at all. That said TNT is right about the behavioral stuff. That is the biggest driver, the physical piece is just an amplifier though not a small one. And the behavioral stuff - wow - maybe I am coming across poorly but being funny, and kind AND assertive and generous is how I am with all my friends. I only get into "sex specific" behaviors when she goes temporarily mad and that is maybe once a year and my response typically lasts one day. You're kind of waffling about whether you're making all these fine-tuned calibrations for your wife or not. Is it just an off-hand, "this is me" sort of thing, or is it a studied effort? Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) Flo, Learning it was a studied effort. For me, it was similar to learning to write. It was hard and took a long time, but once I got good at it the daily execution became easy. I would say I mastered "emotional interaction" with my W as opposed to saying I mastered how to get my W to "want" me. The sex is a side effect of her being truly "in love" with me. So it is true that I avoid doing things that turn her off "lust busters" and make the effort to do things that turn her on, but I honestly - truly - cannot think of a time where I thought 'I am going to do X because it will increase my odds of getting laid". I do X because I love her, and know it will be fun/make her laugh/make her happy. Perhaps a big part of that is because she is highly available to me sexually. So absent being a total/deliberate prick I can have sex when I want it. But keeping her in love with me, that is totally worth exercising the skills I have developed. While it is true I have "fine tuned" my interaction with her, I don't feel like I have to compromise being "me" to do any of it. You're kind of waffling about whether you're making all these fine-tuned calibrations for your wife or not. Is it just an off-hand, "this is me" sort of thing, or is it a studied effort? Edited October 18, 2010 by mem11363 Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Flo, Learning it was a studied effort. For me, it was similar to learning to write. It was hard and took a long time, but once I got good at it the daily execution became easy. I would say I mastered "emotional interaction" with my W as opposed to saying I mastered how to get my W to "want" me. The sex is a side effect of her being truly "in love" with me. So it is true that I avoid doing things that turn her off "lust busters" and make the effort to do things that turn her on, but I honestly - truly - cannot think of a time where I thought 'I am going to do X because it will increase my odds of getting laid". I do X because I love her, and know it will be fun/make her laugh/make her happy. Perhaps a big part of that is because she is highly available to me sexually. So absent being a total/deliberate prick I can have sex when I want it. But keeping her in love with me, that is totally worth exercising the skills I have developed. While it is true I have "fine tuned" my interaction with her, I don't feel like I have to compromise being "me" to do any of it. OK, thanks for elaborating. I understand now. I wish my H. could make me sexually interested in him. It would make things so much better. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Flo, Do you have a "list" of lust busters, lust kindlers that he could act on? Does he know what the list is? Is he motivated to create desire? OK, thanks for elaborating. I understand now. I wish my H. could make me sexually interested in him. It would make things so much better. Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Flo, Do you have a "list" of lust busters, lust kindlers that he could act on? Does he know what the list is? Is he motivated to create desire? He's not much motivated anymore. He feels that he's tried throughout our marriage and that nothing has worked except short term. We certainly did try several different approaches earlier on. There was a phase when I was supposed to initiate but it had to be once a week. Then there was another phase where we had sex every night as a rule (quickies). He's correct that it never lasted. I think he knows what my list of turn offs are, and we could probably come up with a list of things that have helped in the past. To complicate matters, we've had some disagreements on birth control now that we're done having kids. He's a religious Catholic. Can I ask you, have you ever had sex when there was no desire on your part? Link to post Share on other sites
Honorable_Venerable Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 What?????? Women enjoy sex too You have a very warped perception of women dude. Besides your W, how many other women have you dated and had sex with? No, I don't have a warped perception of women. I simply accept the possibility that there are men and women who never liked sex, don't like sex and never will like sex. They put up with it to get a spouse and breed children, but have no inclination to have sex in general. If you don't believe such a thing can exist, I think you may need to adjust your perception a little. Try Googling "asexual" and see what you find. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Flo, I have had sex when I wasn't in the mood. More precisely on occasion I have had sex when I did not "start out" in the mood. The way that works is that W is very skilled at getting me in the mood. She has this way of running her fingers down my body - chest, stomach, inner thighs, lower back - that gets me crazed in 10-20 minutes. Adding to that she does this light tough on my palms and the soles of my feet which is incredible. So I start out totally in neutral. No desire - nothing. And in 15-20 minutes I am at full throttle and she hasn't directly touched the equipment. Is your H not willing to get a vasectomy? My W is catholic but I nicely told her it is my body and my soul at risk and I was getting a V after our last child. She didn't really fight it. Do you have a post that describes your situation in detail. Can you link us to it? I am curious. You seem very rational. He's not much motivated anymore. He feels that he's tried throughout our marriage and that nothing has worked except short term. We certainly did try several different approaches earlier on. There was a phase when I was supposed to initiate but it had to be once a week. Then there was another phase where we had sex every night as a rule (quickies). He's correct that it never lasted. I think he knows what my list of turn offs are, and we could probably come up with a list of things that have helped in the past. To complicate matters, we've had some disagreements on birth control now that we're done having kids. He's a religious Catholic. Can I ask you, have you ever had sex when there was no desire on your part? Link to post Share on other sites
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