How I got MY wife into sex

[giotto]

She has this way of running her fingers down my body - chest, stomach, inner thighs, lower back - that gets me crazed in 10-20 minutes.

 

10-20 minutes? That would make me crazy in about 4 seconds...

[HeavenOrHell]

Game playing doesn't work for me or my partner, we'd rather be honest and open with each other, and explore things together and communicate!

[florence of suburbia]

Do you have a post that describes your situation in detail. Can you link us to it? I am curious. You seem very rational.

 

Hi Mem, I posted about this under my previous user name. Here are a few threads. (if you skip over the advice it won't take so long to read them, or you could just read my first post in each one if you want the quick and dirty. Skim or not as you see fit.)

 

Re our sexual history and ongoing problems:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t112933/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t122816/

 

Re birth control:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t123942/

Edited October 19, 2010 by florence of suburbia

[mem11363]

Flo,

I will think about all this. You express yourself very well. Sadly I had a 15 hour day today and am now officially worthless. More soon.

 

 

Hi Mem, I posted about this under my previous user name. Here are a few threads. (if you skip over the advice it won't take so long to read them, or you could just read my first post in each one if you want the quick and dirty. Skim or not as you see fit.)

 

Re our sexual history and ongoing problems:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t112933/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t122816/

 

Re birth control:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t123942/

[mem11363]

- Is he "always right"

- Has he "learned your body and not just sexually but in terms of what you like with regard to non-sexual affection?"

- Why don't you like his body unclothed, is it a fitness issue or something he could only change with surgery/cannot change?

- Does he really "listen" to you? Does he ever say "that is a good/great idea?" or does he think he is superior to you in some way/ways?

- Does he treat you like an equal or a child?

- I accept that you were somehow not mature when he met you, do YOU feel that has changed and if so, that he gave you credit for it?

- Does he have a good sense of humor?

- Is it possible his complaints about intimacy are almost entirely based on your impaired sex life as opposed to non-sexual emotional intimacy?

 

 

 

Hi Mem, I posted about this under my previous user name. Here are a few threads. (if you skip over the advice it won't take so long to read them, or you could just read my first post in each one if you want the quick and dirty. Skim or not as you see fit.)

 

Re our sexual history and ongoing problems:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t112933/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t122816/

 

Re birth control:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t123942/

[florence of suburbia]

- Is he "always right"

Not exactly. He's humble and willing to admit mistakes, but he's extremely committed to his worldview, and isn't willing to concede alternate points of view just to make things warm and fuzzy.

 

- Has he "learned your body and not just sexually but in terms of what you like with regard to non-sexual affection?"

 

Somewhat. Re sexually, he can give me an orgasm with his hands. Re non-sexually, he knows some of the things I like, but he doesn't take action on them very much. For example, you mentioned back scratching. He knows I like my back scratched but he doesn't voluntarily scratch it. Only if asked.

 

- Why don't you like his body unclothed, is it a fitness issue or something he could only change with surgery/cannot change?

 

He's very thin, especially his arms, shoulders and chest. He has a runner's body. There have been times he has done some minor upper body work, and added maybe five to eight extra pounds. It was better but the difference was minor. He says to get any kind of real mass, the effort would be unreasonable given his body type. However, two of his brothers have pretty good upper body mass....

 

- Does he really "listen" to you? Does he ever say "that is a good/great idea?" or does he think he is superior to you in some way/ways?

 

Yes, he does listen to me and admires me, especially in areas where he knows he's not as well-versed, like literature, for example, or cooking. On other topics, especially religious, moral, ethical, political, money he doesn't respect my thoughts much at all. Then on clothes, grooming, he admits I'm better with that kind of thing, but he doesn't see much value to it beyond the basics.

 

- Does he treat you like an equal or a child?

Sometimes equal, sometimes he reverts to treating me like a child, depending on the arena. See above.

 

- I accept that you were somehow not mature when he met you, do YOU feel that has changed and if so, that he gave you credit for it?

Yes, I have changed and yes he gives me credit. I'll admit there are many areas where I could still stand to improve, but so could he.

 

- Does he have a good sense of humor?

He has a decent sense of humor, but different from mine. He's not a quick wit, but he can laugh at his own foibles and see the humor in life. We are able to laugh together but it is pretty rare that he has me ROFL. I wish he did.

 

- Is it possible his complaints about intimacy are almost entirely based on your impaired sex life as opposed to non-sexual emotional intimacy? He has complaints about both, at least he did in the past. Lately he doesn't bring it up. He used to complain that I don't like to have intimate conversations, but I don't think he understands that if we both enjoyed watching certain TV shows together or we worked on a home improvement project together, that would work better for me than a deep conversation to create intimacy.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I take from it two things...... The immaturity/hang-ups your spouse had sleeping in the same bed 1 year before sex and you not saying or doing anything (i.e. leaving the bed and telling him that you weren't ready to live like that), and your comments on his body.....

 

Now if he had gained 30-50 pounds, I understand that you have every right to say something or to discuss physical activity.

 

But he was skinny/fit when you met and when you married him. To expect him to change his appearance significantly is unreasonable.

 

I can only imagine the response from women if a fit woman was told by her spouse to change her body appearance by getting to the gym and working on her body (i.e. more sit-up, definition on her shoulders, hips butt and legs).....

[mem11363]

Flo,

- Sounds like his sexual repertoire is somewhat limited. Is that right?

- Does he have satisfactory endurance when you have intercourse?

- Are you highly affectionate with him? Or are you both somewhat limited in how much affection you show each other?

- Do you have conflict about money? Are you a SAHM or a working mom? Do you feel he is "overly careful" with money? Does he feel you overspend?

- In general how do you feel when you first see him at the end of a day apart?

- How do you feel when he hugs/touches you?

 

 

- Is he "always right"

Not exactly. He's humble and willing to admit mistakes, but he's extremely committed to his worldview, and isn't willing to concede alternate points of view just to make things warm and fuzzy.

 

- Has he "learned your body and not just sexually but in terms of what you like with regard to non-sexual affection?"

 

Somewhat. Re sexually, he can give me an orgasm with his hands. Re non-sexually, he knows some of the things I like, but he doesn't take action on them very much. For example, you mentioned back scratching. He knows I like my back scratched but he doesn't voluntarily scratch it. Only if asked.

 

- Why don't you like his body unclothed, is it a fitness issue or something he could only change with surgery/cannot change?

 

He's very thin, especially his arms, shoulders and chest. He has a runner's body. There have been times he has done some minor upper body work, and added maybe five to eight extra pounds. It was better but the difference was minor. He says to get any kind of real mass, the effort would be unreasonable given his body type. However, two of his brothers have pretty good upper body mass....

 

- Does he really "listen" to you? Does he ever say "that is a good/great idea?" or does he think he is superior to you in some way/ways?

 

Yes, he does listen to me and admires me, especially in areas where he knows he's not as well-versed, like literature, for example, or cooking. On other topics, especially religious, moral, ethical, political, money he doesn't respect my thoughts much at all. Then on clothes, grooming, he admits I'm better with that kind of thing, but he doesn't see much value to it beyond the basics.

 

- Does he treat you like an equal or a child?

Sometimes equal, sometimes he reverts to treating me like a child, depending on the arena. See above.

 

- I accept that you were somehow not mature when he met you, do YOU feel that has changed and if so, that he gave you credit for it?

Yes, I have changed and yes he gives me credit. I'll admit there are many areas where I could still stand to improve, but so could he.

 

- Does he have a good sense of humor?

He has a decent sense of humor, but different from mine. He's not a quick wit, but he can laugh at his own foibles and see the humor in life. We are able to laugh together but it is pretty rare that he has me ROFL. I wish he did.

 

- Is it possible his complaints about intimacy are almost entirely based on your impaired sex life as opposed to non-sexual emotional intimacy? He has complaints about both, at least he did in the past. Lately he doesn't bring it up. He used to complain that I don't like to have intimate conversations, but I don't think he understands that if we both enjoyed watching certain TV shows together or we worked on a home improvement project together, that would work better for me than a deep conversation to create intimacy.

[florence of suburbia]

Now if he had gained 30-50 pounds, I understand that you have every right to say something or to discuss physical activity.

 

That's ironic b/c I would love it if he gained 30 pounds.

 

We both knew his body type didn't really do it for me when we got married. I never hid it from him, just like he never hid his disapproval of the choices I'd made in the past (to have sex outside of marriage).

 

Both of us overlooked these issues and in retrospect, both these caused problems in our marriage.

 

But he was skinny/fit when you met and when you married him. To expect him to change his appearance significantly is unreasonable.

 

I can only imagine the response from women if a fit woman was told by her spouse to change her body appearance by getting to the gym and working on her body (i.e. more sit-up, definition on her shoulders, hips butt and legs).....

 

Yeah, I pretty much agree. The idea of him adding body mass hasn't come up between us for at least ten years, since before we had kids. But that doesn't change my visceral reaction when we get naked.

[florence of suburbia]

Flo,

- Sounds like his sexual repertoire is somewhat limited. Is that right?

 

Yes. He was only with one other person besides me, when he was about 19. We met when he was 32.

 

But I'm not all about the skilz. . That can be taught, but it is the pacing and overall rhythm that is off kilter. (and I don't literally mean the rhythm of intercourse, I mean the pacing and rhythm of the whole experience.) Like if I were dancing to Bob Marley and he was dancing to The Theme from Starwars. And the chemistry is just always awkward. This is going to sound strange, but even the oils in his skin irritate my skin.

 

- Does he have satisfactory endurance when you have intercourse?

No. First time out of the gate he usually lasts under 1 minute. Second time, 3 to 5 minutes.

 

- Are you highly affectionate with him? Or are you both somewhat limited in how much affection you show each other?

I'd have to admit it is limited. We do have pet names for each other and hug and peck hello and goodbye. Occasionally spoon in bed if it is cold. Occasionally hold hands. We never kiss any more. Haven't for years.

 

- Do you have conflict about money? Are you a SAHM or a working mom? Do you feel he is "overly careful" with money? Does he feel you overspend? I finally went back to full time work when my youngest started school three years ago, after about ten years as a SAHM. While I was at home we were living on about 50K in a moderately expensive state ( not California or NY, but not Nebraska either). My return to full time work has doubled our income.

 

Yes, he's overcareful with money and has peculiar ideas about money. He's been known to keep clothing items for 15 years or more because they are "still useful". Last night he put on some boxers that he wears as pajamas and there were 4 or 5 holes in the backside. He said he's had them since before we were married (going on 16 years) and is ready to get new ones now. Recently when he had minor knee surgery he wore a sweatsuit purchased in 1977.

 

We had an infamous argument about the kids' allowance b/c he wanted to pay one of them 25 cents per week and the other 10 cents. He objected to determining their pay based on how much things actually cost out in the world, insisting that pay should be commensurate with the value of the job (chore) being performed, as this is the appropriate driver of an ethical economy. When I objected that it would take them six months to earn enough money to buy anything, he said I have, "mistaken ideas about money."

 

And yes I probably overspend a bit (definitely I did when we were making so little, as I didn't feel it was enough to live to a minimum standard. Couldn't go to Starbucks once a week without feeling guilty. ) By any stretch of the imagination though, I am not a high-maintenance woman. I do keep my hair cut and colored (to cover the gray), keep my wardrobe up for work and in the summertime might get one or two pedicures so I can wear open-toed shoes. I don't go for massages or facials, don't get highlights or nail wraps like some women I know, don't belong to a gym, I drive an older car. Amost all the vacations we take are to visit family, except when he went to Rome on a grant. I wasn't invited.

 

We recently moved house to be closer to the school zone where my kids attend (used to take us 45 minute commute to get here before we moved, which we did daily for five years). We were unable to buy in this area as our income is too low, even at 100k, so we are renting a house that my parents own and paying rent to them.

 

- In general how do you feel when you first see him at the end of a day apart?

 

I feel happy to see him and a general friendly warmth. But to be honest when I come home I'd prefer to be alone for a bit before I have to deal with people. I'm the kind of person who needs to decompress by myself. I usually go and hide in the bathroom for 20 minutes so I can get that alone time.

 

- How do you feel when he hugs/touches you?

I enjoy the familial warmth of his hugs so long as it doesn't feel like it is about to turn sexual. Then I feel awkward. Another poster recently wrote when she gets physical with her man it is like having sex with Mr. Rogers. That hit home.

 

I know some of this seems harsh, but there's no point in sugar coating it on this forum.

Edited October 20, 2010 by florence of suburbia

[mem11363]

Flo,

In some ways you just described my father. Likely the biggest differences between my parents marriage and yours are:

- He earned enough for them to live the life they wanted on just one income

- He was her first - so she had no basis for comparison - and many of the women in her generation seemed to have very low expectations with regard to their husbands sexual abilities

 

Both my parents have passed on but looking back she was a child of the depression so her view was that if you had a hard working, successful spouse who did not drink, gamble, whore, beat you, verbally/emotionally abuse you - then you had a "good guy" and needed to treat him well. For sure she had frustrations and resentments. Like your H - my father could be difficult in a Mr. Rogers sort of fashion.

 

What you describe is a guy who has few love busters and is also mostly lacking in lust kindlers. That is a serious bummer. You married a nice, smart unsexy person.

 

I give you an A+++ in honesty. I also think there is at best a "partial" solution for you. My father was a really good guy. He was however not adaptable. He had a defined comfort zone and inside it he was great. Outside it, he was dysfunctional.

 

The bit about the allowance amounts for the kids cracked me up.

 

Oddly enough you might find most of your improvement in the bedroom. With practice and focus he can likely increase his ability to "last" if that is important to you.

 

 

Flo,

- Sounds like his sexual repertoire is somewhat limited. Is that right?

 

Yes. He was only with one other person besides me, when he was about 19. We met when he was 32.

 

But I'm not all about the skilz. . That can be taught, but it is the pacing and overall rhythm that is off kilter. (and I don't literally mean the rhythm of intercourse, I mean the pacing and rhythm of the whole experience.) Like if I were dancing to Bob Marley and he was dancing to The Theme from Starwars. And the chemistry is just always awkward. This is going to sound strange, but even the oils in his skin irritate my skin.

 

- Does he have satisfactory endurance when you have intercourse?

No. First time out of the gate he usually lasts under 1 minute. Second time, 3 to 5 minutes.

 

- Are you highly affectionate with him? Or are you both somewhat limited in how much affection you show each other?

I'd have to admit it is limited. We do have pet names for each other and hug and peck hello and goodbye. Occasionally spoon in bed if it is cold. Occasionally hold hands. We never kiss any more. Haven't for years.

 

- Do you have conflict about money? Are you a SAHM or a working mom? Do you feel he is "overly careful" with money? Does he feel you overspend? I finally went back to full time work when my youngest started school three years ago, after about ten years as a SAHM. While I was at home we were living on about 50K in a moderately expensive state ( not California or NY, but not Nebraska either). My return to full time work has doubled our income.

 

Yes, he's overcareful with money and has peculiar ideas about money. He's been known to keep clothing items for 15 years or more because they are "still useful". Last night he put on some boxers that he wears as pajamas and there were 4 or 5 holes in the backside. He said he's had them since before we were married (going on 16 years) and is ready to get new ones now. Recently when he had minor knee surgery he wore a sweatsuit purchased in 1977.

 

We had an infamous argument about the kids' allowance b/c he wanted to pay one of them 25 cents per week and the other 10 cents. He objected to determining their pay based on how much things actually cost out in the world, insisting that pay should be commensurate with the value of the job (chore) being performed, as this is the appropriate driver of an ethical economy. When I objected that it would take them six months to earn enough money to buy anything, he said I have, "mistaken ideas about money."

 

And yes I probably overspend a bit (definitely I did when we were making so little, as I didn't feel it was enough to live to a minimum standard. Couldn't go to Starbucks once a week without feeling guilty. ) By any stretch of the imagination though, I am not a high-maintenance woman. I do keep my hair cut and colored (to cover the gray), keep my wardrobe up for work and in the summertime might get one or two pedicures so I can wear open-toed shoes. I don't go for massages or facials, don't get highlights or nail wraps like some women I know, don't belong to a gym, I drive an older car. Amost all the vacations we take are to visit family, except when he went to Rome on a grant. I wasn't invited.

 

We recently moved house to be closer to the school zone where my kids attend (used to take us 45 minute commute to get here before we moved, which we did daily for five years). We were unable to buy in this area as our income is too low, even at 100k, so we are renting a house that my parents own and paying rent to them.

 

- In general how do you feel when you first see him at the end of a day apart?

 

I feel happy to see him and a general friendly warmth. But to be honest when I come home I'd prefer to be alone for a bit before I have to deal with people. I'm the kind of person who needs to decompress by myself. I usually go and hide in the bathroom for 20 minutes so I can get that alone time.

 

- How do you feel when he hugs/touches you?

I enjoy the familial warmth of his hugs so long as it doesn't feel like it is about to turn sexual. Then I feel awkward. Another poster recently wrote when she gets physical with her man it is like having sex with Mr. Rogers. That hit home.

 

I know some of this seems harsh, but there's no point in sugar coating it on this forum.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Flo,

Oddly enough you might find most of your improvement in the bedroom. With practice and focus he can likely increase his ability to "last" if that is important to you.

 

Whilst I wouldn't suggest taking it to the extremes I have had to, I am living proof that it is possible to go on and on and on...

 

However, first he would have to a) realise you think it's important ; b) think that means it actually is important; c) be willing to do anything about it. Having read all your threads, I have the impression that it won't matter what YOU think unless HE decides it's important.

[giotto]

sounds to me you are living with a friend, not a husband, FS...

[tnttim]

FS, what fun things do you guys do?

 

When was the last time the sex was spontaneous?

 

Also you seem to have a laundry list of complaints, what's great about him?

[mem11363]

FOS,

Your depiction comes across as balanced. If I had to summarize - your H has most of the attributes of a good friend and good father and very few of the attributes of a sexy/passionate lover.

 

Your story fits a particular pattern. Very mature (maybe overly mature) male meets immature (no offence intended - both my father and I were late bloomers) female. She finds his stability and calm appealing and views him as good "father" material. She has likely had a number of sexually satisfying but emotionally/financially mediocre/dysfunctional relationships up to that point. And so at that moment in her life, sex appeal gets under-weighted and everything else gets "over-weighted". Amplifying that is the "comfort/stability" he offers which temporarily does create some desire.

 

Ultimately as the female matures, the value she places on his "hyper-maturity" fades and she is left with a partner she does not feel much desire for.

 

And that "hyper-maturity" comes with its own set of headaches. While the immature live at a zero net worth or a negative net worth with all the attendant anxiety and disruptions to their life, the "hyper-mature" miss out on almost every opportunity for spontaneity that doesn't fit into their long term financial plan. And that sometimes causes them to suck the joy out of situations over very small deviations from budget.

 

I have read a lot of stories like that told by FOS. Frankly she and her H have reached a level of accommodation that is higher than most of the others I have seen posted.

 

I do think there are things FOS can do to make her marriage stronger. I also believe those things will be difficult to do.

 

 

FS, what fun things do you guys do?

 

When was the last time the sex was spontaneous?

 

Also you seem to have a laundry list of complaints, what's great about him?

[florence of suburbia]

Whilst I wouldn't suggest taking it to the extremes I have had to, I am living proof that it is possible to go on and on and on...

 

However, first he would have to a) realise you think it's important ; b) think that means it actually is important; c) be willing to do anything about it. Having read all your threads, I have the impression that it won't matter what YOU think unless HE decides it's important.

I really appreciate you taking the time to read all that, HV. Somewhat repetitive and circular, I think. Once again, your endurance is commendable!

 

Don't know if this came across, but he actually won't have intercourse at all with me right now because I told him I won't be having another child under any circumstances. So now our witholding is mutual. :o.

Edited October 22, 2010 by florence of suburbia

[florence of suburbia]

FOS,

Your depiction comes across as balanced. If I had to summarize - your H has most of the attributes of a good friend and good father and very few of the attributes of a sexy/passionate lover.

 

Your story fits a particular pattern. Very mature (maybe overly mature) male meets immature (no offence intended - both my father and I were late bloomers) female. She finds his stability and calm appealing and views him as good "father" material. She has likely had a number of sexually satisfying but emotionally/financially mediocre/dysfunctional relationships up to that point. And so at that moment in her life, sex appeal gets under-weighted and everything else gets "over-weighted". Amplifying that is the "comfort/stability" he offers which temporarily does create some desire.

 

Ultimately as the female matures, the value she places on his "hyper-maturity" fades and she is left with a partner she does not feel much desire for.

 

And that "hyper-maturity" comes with its own set of headaches. While the immature live at a zero net worth or a negative net worth with all the attendant anxiety and disruptions to their life, the "hyper-mature" miss out on almost every opportunity for spontaneity that doesn't fit into their long term financial plan. And that sometimes causes them to suck the joy out of situations over very small deviations from budget.

 

I have read a lot of stories like that told by FOS. Frankly she and her H have reached a level of accommodation that is higher than most of the others I have seen posted.

 

I do think there are things FOS can do to make her marriage stronger. I also believe those things will be difficult to do.

 

Mem, yours is probably one of the most balanced understandings of my situation I've seen. Usually people see him as the "bad guy" but really he's the ultimate mensch. I've bolded those of your comments that are especially astute.

 

This one bears repeating: the "hyper-mature" miss out on almost every opportunity for spontaneity that doesn't fit into their long term *financial* plan.

 

You could take out the word "financial" and just say "master" plan, as his plan has all other kinds of dimensions, spiritual, educational, political, etc. that always guide his actions.

 

He was off his feet with this knee surgery and rented some videos to enjoy in the mean time. I think you'll appreciate what he rented:

 

1. A dramatization of Flight 93, i.e., "Let's roll!"

2. A documentary about the healing miracles at Lourdes

Edited October 22, 2010 by florence of suburbia

[Phateless]

FOS, you are quite obviously only friends with your husband. Both of you either need to get severely outside your comfort zones AS A TEAM in order to make this a real relationship, or you need to break up and find real life partners.

[Bec_downunder]

I want a man who wants me and finds me irresistable! This would not work on me. Confident, attractive 32yo

 

Some know my story and some don't, but here is a brief breakdown that pertains to this thread.

 

I turned my sex life with wife into a scheduled task. I would demand sex, make her feel like it was her fault, and get mad if she said no. I was convinced that my wife had a low sex drive, or just accepted that 12 years with same person just does that to you.

 

That was the first thing I did, I smashed all of my old beliefs and ideals. I started to look at my wife as a date instead. Then I would think of all the ways I approached her for sex and decide if it would work on a date. Well after 50 no's in a row, I started to see a trend. It was me, not her, my deeper thought was it was her perception of me, and my view towards sex. Sex was very important for me, it defined me as a man in a way. I was very centered around pleasing my wife which to me meant I was a better man. It gave me a lot of sexual hang ups, and ideals that I really could not measure up to. I was missing the female factor in the sex equation, feelings. Sex for a woman goes far beyond the O, and your technique. Yes both are important but are far from the whole picture for women.

 

So with that insight I started to change my thoughts and actions on sex. First I put it on the bottom of my mental list, meaning I could live without sex. I stopped initiating sex, and waited for my wife to do it because sex was the last thing on my mind for now. She held out for a few days then asked me why I didn't want to have sex, she thought it was her fault. I explained that I wasn't really in the mood and it had nothing to do with her. Here's the wow factor, she started amping up her approach for sex, the same way I would when I got turned down. I wondered how could this be when I had no sexual value because of my past with her. Then I realized that since our separation I had changed a lot, and in essence I was a new man to her.

 

Then I thought besides the obvious what else is she getting out of sex, feelings. I think we all have the same feelings before, during and after sex. We accomplished a goal, we satisfied the other person, we felt accepted, we felt loved, we felt in control, we felt control from the other person, we felt sexy, we felt great. For sex to be good a lot of those feelings have to be felt, or then it's just average. Why am I mentioning this? Because often after a long relationship we forget about these feelings, and we forget about making the other person feel those feelings. So that was the second step, increase the good feelings before, during or after. You can learn a lot more about your sex life if you pay attention to your spouses feelings, and attitudes before and after. If they are not in high spirits then they may have an issue with sex with you. They might have old feelings attached to the act, and it actually depresses them after sex because those bad feelings are now a habit. So try your best to break that habit for them, use suggestions and praise. Find something they love doing and start talking about how great they are at it right after sex. Be consistent and then you'll notice they will start to be happier and happier after sex. Never stop paying attention at the critical times, you will learn a wealth of information, and can use the information to increase your response from sex.

 

Her little games, and how you can maximize your appeal. I used to think my wife was crazy, I know we all think that. I noticed that a lot of times my wife would do something off the wall, or say something I didn't understand. I used to react in a negative way, then I realized it was all a game to test me. She wanted to know where she stood and where I stood in the M, so she would give me little tests. So the third thing I did was stopping playing her games, when I knew it was a test. The best way to win a game like this is to not participate in the game at all. Women love men in control, power is a turn on for most, that's why when they have A's it's usually with a boss, or someone with power. So I took control in the relationship, and the only thing I could control was my feelings, and my actions. I stopped over reacting, I stopped trying to control her, and I took control when she wanted me to take control.

 

Turning her on. The final piece was turning her on, and getting her to initiate sex. I already mentioned how not wanting made her want it more, and made her increase her approach. but what's the thought process behind that. She felt that for the first time she was not worthy of having sex with me, her actions spoke the words. So now I turn her down from time to time, or I say that I was in the mood yesterday and then she did something to turn me off. I would be more social when I went out, and try to talk to at least 1 new person. This gave me the power of acceptance from my wife because if other people like me, than she wants to be associated with me. If the new person was female then I also gained sex appeal, because if another person wants your spouse, you naturally want them more. Also by having sex with me it proved she was sexier than the other female. I made a lot of friends and reconnected with some old ones, this also helped because it showed other people like to be my friend, and I mattered to other people. It showed I had compassion.

 

During sex I would make sure that it was a great performance, and I would change it up from time to time. Then every once in a while after a great performance from her I would say "damn you made my balls tingle, I'm not going to able to go to sleep now. I knew I picked a winner when I met you, I can just see it in you, you're glowing." Sorry so graphic but there is a point, women do not know what balls feel like, akin to men not knowing what a g spot orgasm feels like. So it levels the field because when a man has an orgasm the evidence is literally right in front of you, but she doesn't know if she made them tingle, get it. If the sex was lack luster I never commented on it, or expressed it to her. I knew that there were forces beyond my control and I let it be. I would also ignore all the presteps to sex, when she was fishing for a sexual comment from me. She might wear small shorts and prance around me waiting for me to react, I would just keep on doing what I was doing. Sometimes she would ask me directly, "Am I sexy." It was the hardest thing to do but I would not comment on it, and if I did I would be vague. That question is a game, and by not answering the question, I beat her at her own game. Women on deep level love men that can out game them, it's a turn on, it's a challenge. Remain steadfast in your approach and you will reap the benefits. I would also let her know that sex with me was a challenge, it had to be earned in a way. So I would say things like "if you keep that up I'll let you show me your seduction skills later." At first she would get pissed, but as time went on she would start taking on these challenges. Now when I say something like that she giggles like a school girl, she loves the feeling of the silly challenge.

 

support her when she wants support, leave her alone when she needs the time to think. Support her actions when she makes a decision, comfort her when she needs comfort. Compliment her on her passions, be in control of your emotions. Don't let every little speed bump in life slow you down. Don't let anyone change your mind, remain steadfast. Don't be scared to speak up, or put her in her place when she needs it.

 

Be the nicest ashole your wife could ever need.....................

[mohdhm]

just to add my point to the OP's wonderful first post. It was so awesome and well written, may i ask how long it took you to arrive at these conclusions?

 

This isn't really about marriage at all, it is about the basic fundamentals in how to attract a woman.

 

Just like OP said:

be a challenge, don't give in to their every whim

sex should be at the bottom of your to-do list

have strong social connections

be genuine

don't play her games

don't be direct

ETC

 

They may say they don't how you have changed, get pissed off, etc... but increase in sex proves otherwise

 

All these skills should have been developed before marriage and not lost afterwards!

[JamesM]

just to add my point to the OP's wonderful first post. It was so awesome and well written, may i ask how long it took you to arrive at these conclusions?

 

This isn't really about marriage at all, it is about the basic fundamentals in how to attract a woman.

 

All these skills should have been developed before marriage and not lost afterwards!

 

Let us know your experiences after you find a wife.

 

I thought I had a PhD on women until I actually married one. It is one thing to know basic woman skills and utilize them in college or the workplace or life to attract a woman. It is quite another thing to actually have to use them full time with someone who learns your every vulnerability...and utilizes her own "man" skills.

 

Tntim has some great points, but I would say they are not just basic skills to attract a woman. It is quite one thing to attract a woman. It is a whole different ballgame when it comes to actually living with a woman for many years.

 

Just a thought or two.

[Phateless]

I want a man who wants me and finds me irresistable! This would not work on me. Confident, attractive 32yo

 

And what are you bringing to the table?

 

Would you stay in a marriage with a guy who you had NO desire to sleep with?

[Bec_downunder]

And what are you bringing to the table?

 

Would you stay in a marriage with a guy who you had NO desire to sleep with?

 

Hi Phateless. When I have time, I'm going to start a thread and tell men exactly what works for me and hopefully other women will join in and write about their likes and dislikes.

 

I know my argument was short, but I do have a lot to say on the subject.

 

I'm sure this approach will work on some women. Basically tnttim is giving his wife 'a chase'. When she is fishing for compliments, he doesn't give them etc. I just know that a lot of women would feel rejected by this.

 

I have been in a relationship for over 3 years. At the start, my man was extremely romantic, sent me flowers, wrote me long emails all the time, texted me constantly saying he missed me and loves me etc. We had a wonderful sex life, we just couldn't get enough.

 

He's now in a job where he works ALL THE TIME. He travels with work, works long hours, then when he comes home, he opens the lap top and spends all night working. He has two kids which we have nearly every weekend. On the weekends, he works on the computer while I entertain the kids. We hardly spend any quality time together, then at night, he expects me to be in the mood and 'put out'!!??

 

Anyway, this weekend we didn't have the kids. I demanded that we went out and spend some time together. On Saturday, we went to the gym and Saturday night I dressed really sexy and we went to dinner and the movies and he couldn't keep his hands off me. When we came home, I was really turned on that I had turned him on, and I appreciated him taking me out and we had wonderful sex.

 

I feel turned on after we've had fun together and I'm dressed up and feel sexy and he can't keep his hands off me. I feel turned on when we're out and he looks at me like I'm the only woman in the room. What WOULDN'T turn me on is if we went out and he was flirting with other women, then we came home and he expected me to put out when he'd spent the night ignoring me and flirting with other women (he wouldn't do that).

 

So, lesson one, women get turned on after a fun night out, you pay them attention, tell them they look hot, you've laughed together etc. A lot of men don't feel the need to go back to 'dating' once they've been with a woman for so long. It's different for women. To me, just one night out made our relationship feel 'fresh' again and it surfaced so many lusty feelings I had for him in the beginning. I'm not saying that this will work for every woman, but I look at my friends in happy, long term relationships and they go out a lot and have fun with their man and share interests. A lot of people are going to say 'well derrr!'. It's such a basic thing and just common sense really. Women do need that mental connection to feel in the mood.

 

I have sooo much more to say, but don't have the time right now. Hope this makes sense, I wrote it really quickly! As soon as I get time, I'll come back for lesson two lol. Have fun!

[Floridaman]

Hi Phateless. When I have time, I'm going to start a thread and tell men exactly what works for me and hopefully other women will join in and write about their likes and dislikes.

 

I know my argument was short, but I do have a lot to say on the subject.

This sounds great, Bec_downunder.

I am going to look forward to your post.

So, lesson one, women get turned on after a fun night out, you pay them attention, tell them they look hot, you've laughed together etc. A lot of men don't feel the need to go back to 'dating' once they've been with a woman for so long. It's different for women. To me, just one night out made our relationship feel 'fresh' again and it surfaced so many lusty feelings I had for him in the beginning. I'm not saying that this will work for every woman, but I look at my friends in happy, long term relationships and they go out a lot and have fun with their man and share interests. A lot of people are going to say 'well derrr!'. It's such a basic thing and just common sense really. Women do need that mental connection to feel in the mood.

This is true, guys, as I've learned this weekend.

I'll post more later, but my wife has been out of state a couple of months.

I got desparate and lonely the week before she was to visit this weekend and nearly had a midlife crisis thinking our sex life was over

We've ML maybe 1-4x in the last four years.

 

I had a "plan" and wanted to win her back this weekend.

I immediately hugged her upon arrival at the airport. She kissed me back!

 

I played romantic music on my car CD (Bread, Chicago, Ambrosia and Little River Band).

 

Then came up with the idea of treating her to a night at a beach hotel near our home, which she really didn't seem to keen about. "Let's go to the beach, then return here at home... I had other ideas.

 

We spent the day relaxing at the beach, holding hands, and talking.

Lots of talking.

 

We did ML that night after long cuddling.

 

I got her to remove her shorts and panties after long cuddling (a major accomplishment for me!- as I often have to plead or ask her to remove those so I can get better, ummm, "access").

 

Only got to go inside her once this weekend, unfortunately, but the emotional intimacy between us is really increasing.

 

She was VERY TIGHT.

As I entered, it felt like I was ML to a virgin and it really opened my eyes!

 

(Maybe my memory was off as it has been at least 1 year since she's let me ML to her).

 

She's not a virigin of course but only ML to a previous fiance and me.

 

I'm going to talk more with her and try to be more emotionally intimate with her as well.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Floridaman

[Phateless]

Hi Phateless. When I have time, I'm going to start a thread and tell men exactly what works for me and hopefully other women will join in and write about their likes and dislikes.

 

I know my argument was short, but I do have a lot to say on the subject.

 

I'm sure this approach will work on some women. Basically tnttim is giving his wife 'a chase'. When she is fishing for compliments, he doesn't give them etc. I just know that a lot of women would feel rejected by this.

 

I have been in a relationship for over 3 years. At the start, my man was extremely romantic, sent me flowers, wrote me long emails all the time, texted me constantly saying he missed me and loves me etc. We had a wonderful sex life, we just couldn't get enough.

 

He's now in a job where he works ALL THE TIME. He travels with work, works long hours, then when he comes home, he opens the lap top and spends all night working. He has two kids which we have nearly every weekend. On the weekends, he works on the computer while I entertain the kids. We hardly spend any quality time together, then at night, he expects me to be in the mood and 'put out'!!??

 

Anyway, this weekend we didn't have the kids. I demanded that we went out and spend some time together. On Saturday, we went to the gym and Saturday night I dressed really sexy and we went to dinner and the movies and he couldn't keep his hands off me. When we came home, I was really turned on that I had turned him on, and I appreciated him taking me out and we had wonderful sex.

 

I feel turned on after we've had fun together and I'm dressed up and feel sexy and he can't keep his hands off me. I feel turned on when we're out and he looks at me like I'm the only woman in the room. What WOULDN'T turn me on is if we went out and he was flirting with other women, then we came home and he expected me to put out when he'd spent the night ignoring me and flirting with other women (he wouldn't do that).

 

So, lesson one, women get turned on after a fun night out, you pay them attention, tell them they look hot, you've laughed together etc. A lot of men don't feel the need to go back to 'dating' once they've been with a woman for so long. It's different for women. To me, just one night out made our relationship feel 'fresh' again and it surfaced so many lusty feelings I had for him in the beginning. I'm not saying that this will work for every woman, but I look at my friends in happy, long term relationships and they go out a lot and have fun with their man and share interests. A lot of people are going to say 'well derrr!'. It's such a basic thing and just common sense really. Women do need that mental connection to feel in the mood.

 

I have sooo much more to say, but don't have the time right now. Hope this makes sense, I wrote it really quickly! As soon as I get time, I'll come back for lesson two lol. Have fun!

 

I agree with everything you've said and if you think you are contradicting the OP then you didn't read carefully enough.

 

The OP is not advising game-playing. He's merely telling guys to stop supplicating to their women. Does that make sense?

 

Believe it or not, what you said SUPPORTS the original poster's stance. Read more of the thread and I think you'll be pleased.

 

EDIT - your situation is also completely different from the OP's. He was being too needy whereas your guy was being too distant. Make sense? The OP is advocating a healthy middle ground, which sometimes requires some initial overcompensation to achieve.