How I got MY wife into sex

[giotto]

Interestingly (or not, but perhaps significantly), she still hasn't attempted to initiate sex...

 

not surprised about that...

[tnttim]

Interestingly (or not, but perhaps significantly), she still hasn't attempted to initiate sex...

 

Why would she? If you told a drug addict that they where going to rehab, do you really think they would stop?

 

All you did was turn a fixable problem into a huge problem. When are you gong to realize it's your problem not hers. Your the one that needs to change, not her. Learn to be a man, and she'll want to have sex with you. That's why these silly ploys fail, that's why if you did get some sex from this, it would not last. Why? because it's you, not her, that needs to change.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Why would she? If you told a drug addict that they where going to rehab, do you really think they would stop?

 

All you did was turn a fixable problem into a huge problem. When are you gong to realize it's your problem not hers. Your the one that needs to change, not her.

So you keep saying - by pushing her way, pretending to screw other women, play mind games...

Learn to be a man, and she'll want to have sex with you.

I am a man, last time I checked. You obviously know my wife - perhaps she'll introduce you to me at some point and you can explain how you understand her mind so much better than I do.

That's why these silly ploys fail, that's why if you did get some sex from this, it would not last. Why? because it's you, not her, that needs to change.

At the risk of re-covering old ground, why are these "silly ploys" and the lies peddled by CR James about women's inability to not be nosey and become "the great goat girl" infallible? You haven't answered that question. You told me I'm an idiot for not falling over myself to copy you, but not WHY lying to my wife is a "good thing" and taking a rational approach through counselling is a "bad thing".

Oh, and please don't repeat the speil about "if you change and grow a set, she'll behave like something out of a porno movie". People generally change as a result of wanting to achieve something for themself, not by magic or osmosis as a result of "secret mental waves" from someone else. Heard all about that. I filed it alongside homeopathy.

[mem11363]

HV,

Your posts indicate your W is comfortable treating you with disrespect. I think there are two elements to being respected in a typical marriage. The first is all driven by positive behavior, honesty, integrity, hard work etc. Often the positive stuff is not sufficient to be respected in a marriage. To be respected you have to show firm intolerance when you are shown "disrespect". And that is where I would focus if I were you. Because that disrespect spills over into every facet of your marriage including the bedroom.

 

The two things that have made a big difference in my marital interactions are:

- Consistently addressing disrespectful behavior immediately. If we are in the car with children I calmly say "we will discuss this privately when we get home". And my message is typically very brief. Some version of "I would not and do not treat you this way" and low on emotion. If she agrees/apologizes it is over and done without further comment. If she argues fairly and gets to a draw that is fine also - once in a while she has a defensible point.

- If she goes into "dirty fighting" or simply tries to "win" by emotional firepower I go silent. There is no point in trading words with someone who is playing the "might makes right" game. And my W is both strong willed and sometimes stubborn and sometimes even when she has no basis to justify her behavior she goes quiet to avoid apologizing.

 

It used to be that major conflict would exhaust me. She would provoke. I would call "foul." She would escalate. I would lose my temper. That interaction totally sucks since nothing feels worse than a "post adrenaline crash". That is very rare now. Instead I just get quiet and then begin to deprioritize her until we have a conversation that addresses the point to my satisfaction. And I simply don't let blatantly disrespectful stuff go. Going to sleep and waking up does not erase bad behavior. But it is very rare for our conflicts to escalate because my W knows exactly what to expect from me.

 

HV - I think the hardest thing for you is to reset the bar. You have allowed her bad behavior to go on for so long she is going to find your new behavior bewildering for a while. And she is going to be angry and combative UNTIL she realizes that there is no going back and that if she wants the kind, generous, loving H she is used to SHE is going to have to change her behavior. Just remember your kids will largely model their future marital interactions on yours. Do you really want them to think the way she treats you is ok?

 

 

 

So you keep saying - by pushing her way, pretending to screw other women, play mind games...

 

I am a man, last time I checked. You obviously know my wife - perhaps she'll introduce you to me at some point and you can explain how you understand her mind so much better than I do.

 

At the risk of re-covering old ground, why are these "silly ploys" and the lies peddled by CR James about women's inability to not be nosey and become "the great goat girl" infallible? You haven't answered that question. You told me I'm an idiot for not falling over myself to copy you, but not WHY lying to my wife is a "good thing" and taking a rational approach through counselling is a "bad thing".

Oh, and please don't repeat the speil about "if you change and grow a set, she'll behave like something out of a porno movie". People generally change as a result of wanting to achieve something for themself, not by magic or osmosis as a result of "secret mental waves" from someone else. Heard all about that. I filed it alongside homeopathy.

[tnttim]

I am not lying to my wife or making it seem like I screw other women. Being appealing to other women is what I said, because if other women don't want you, why would your wife. Please don't say because she loves you.

 

My point was and always is, treat your wife like a potential date once in a while. Also, if what you do to turn her on doesn't work on anyone else, it won't work on her.

 

You have this irrational belief that women should naturally want sex as much as a man. It's not true, women crave sex with a whole different set of standards than men. They want sex when they are emotionally driven to want sex, and to the man that gives them those feelings.

 

Forcing her to go to counseling will back fire drastically. If she made the choice, then I would agree with you, but she was cohersed. Woman like men that are in control, not controlling. What you did was controlling, you tried to change her, and that's all she see's from your silly little ploy.

 

What have you changed about yourself to solve your problem?

[Honorable_Venerable]

 

My point was and always is, treat your wife like a potential date once in a while. Also, if what you do to turn her on doesn't work on anyone else, it won't work on her.

2

BTDT, she wasn't interested in being wooed or "dated" - sees this a silly little men's game to try to get what they want.

You have this irrational belief that women should naturally want sex as much as a man. It's not true, women crave sex with a whole different set of standards than men.

With all due respect, I think you have confused me with someone else. I have NEVER said or written what you have written, neither here, nor anywhere else. If you have somehow construed this, it could go some way to explaining why we do not seem to be able to agree on things.

 

They want sex when they are emotionally driven to want sex, and to the man that gives them those feelings.

I'm sorry, the difference between being in control to "control" her feelings and "being controlling" is a bit too subtle - you will have to explain how this is different.

 

Forcing her to go to counseling will back fire drastically. If she made the choice, then I would agree with you, but she was cohersed. Woman like men that are in control, not controlling. What you did was controlling, you tried to change her, and that's all she see's from your silly little ploy.

 

What have you changed about yourself to solve your problem?

MY solution was to reduce my sex drive. I'd call that being willing to make a pretty big change.

 

Tell me something, when MY wife considers your "master plan" a series of silly little ploys, how do YOU get off telling ME I'm wrong? I'm sorry, but she would see through you like a sheet of plate glass, and laugh squarely in your face.

[Honorable_Venerable]

HV,

Your posts indicate your W is comfortable treating you with disrespect. I think there are two elements to being respected in a typical marriage. The first is all driven by positive behavior, honesty, integrity, hard work etc. Often the positive stuff is not sufficient to be respected in a marriage. To be respected you have to show firm intolerance when you are shown "disrespect". And that is where I would focus if I were you. Because that disrespect spills over into every facet of your marriage including the bedroom.

 

The two things that have made a big difference in my marital interactions are:

 

 

HV - I think the hardest thing for you is to reset the bar. You have allowed her bad behavior to go on for so long she is going to find your new behavior bewildering for a while. And she is going to be angry and combative UNTIL she realizes that there is no going back and that if she wants the kind, generous, loving H she is used to SHE is going to have to change her behavior. Just remember your kids will largely model their future marital interactions on yours. Do you really want them to think the way she treats you is ok?

You're right to a point. This literally only arises over sex, not elsewhere, but I do have to get her to show me more "respect". However, I'm taking things slowly and carefully - I think suddenly coming over like Don Corleone might not be entirely productive at this stage. I need her to get to a point where discussion is more embedded as an acceptable thing before wanting to alter everythingat once

[Phateless]

The difference between "in control" and "controlling" is huge. "In control" just means leadership. Women are attracted to men who display leadership qualities. That's not to say the man is in charge or makes the rules, not by a long shot. It just means that the man takes the lead. Like partner-dancing.

[Honorable_Venerable]

The difference between "in control" and "controlling" is huge. "In control" just means leadership. Women are attracted to men who display leadership qualities. That's not to say the man is in charge or makes the rules, not by a long shot. It just means that the man takes the lead. Like partner-dancing.

So "leading" without "being in charge" or "making the rules"? Sorry, I'm still not getting this - do you mean the ability of someone to "tell" someone to do what they want to do anyway? The "hordes of hungry men! Follow me to the pie shop!" kind of leadership, or is it something more subtle?

 

I'm afraid the "partner dancing" analogy conveys nothing whatsoever.

[Phateless]

So "leading" without "being in charge" or "making the rules"? Sorry, I'm still not getting this - do you mean the ability of someone to "tell" someone to do what they want to do anyway? The "hordes of hungry men! Follow me to the pie shop!" kind of leadership, or is it something more subtle?

 

I'm afraid the "partner dancing" analogy conveys nothing whatsoever.

 

lol, you're so far off!

 

Is there anyone in your group of friends who always seems to suggest and initiate activities? They're not in charge but they do seem to set things up organically, if that makes sense?

 

Example: you come home from work and say "Hi honey, guess what we're doing tonight? I got us tickets to the ballet/concert/movie/magic show/etc. How does that sound? Where do you want to go for dinner first?"

 

You're not forcing anything on anyone, but you are taking initiative, being exciting and spontaneous, and taking the relationship in the direction you want it. This also takes the burden of plan-making off of her.

 

Trust me, when you figure this out, she will be more open to sex.

 

If she has a suggestion on something she'd rather do, excellent, you're all ears, but if this sounds good to her she can be swept along in the wake of you being a fun person.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Phateless

[Honorable_Venerable]

lol, you're so far off!

Is there anyone in your group of friends who always seems to suggest and initiate activities? They're not in charge but they do seem to set things up organically, if that makes sense?

No. No one like that. This is totally unfamiliar.

Example: you come home from work and say "Hi honey, guess what we're doing tonight? I got us tickets to the ballet/concert/movie/magic show/etc. How does that sound? Where do you want to go for dinner first?"

You're not forcing anything on anyone, but you are taking initiative, being exciting and spontaneous, and taking the relationship in the direction you want it. This also takes the burden of plan-making off of her

Oh I know this one! This is the one that goes from "Hi honey..." to "I didn't want to go there" "I had other plans" "You didn't give any choice / time to get ready / opportunity to say what I wanted" and finishes with "I know what you're up to. If you think this is going to get you into my knickers, forget it sunshine".

Trust me, when you figure this out, she will be more open to sex.

Trust me, I did this for YEARS, and she wasn't. Sorry, if gifts, spontaneous gestures or help around the house was the answer, I wouldn't be asking the question - I've tried all those things, in spades, over and over again. They don't work.

[Phateless]

No. No one like that. This is totally unfamiliar.

 

Don't know what to make of that, I thought everybody knew someone like this.

 

Oh I know this one! This is the one that goes from "Hi honey..." to "I didn't want to go there" "I had other plans" "You didn't give any choice / time to get ready / opportunity to say what I wanted" and finishes with "I know what you're up to. If you think this is going to get you into my knickers, forget it sunshine".

 

Trust me, I did this for YEARS, and she wasn't. Sorry, if gifts, spontaneous gestures or help around the house was the answer, I wouldn't be asking the question - I've tried all those things, in spades, over and over again. They don't work.

 

She's just not that into you anymore. Move on.

[mem11363]

Don Corleone - I love the GF series.

 

I agree you should not be overly aggressive all at once, but I will tell you what I have learned. My W sometimes does something hurtful/wrong and then digs in. And then you have to decide what you are going to do. Sometimes I don't escalate all the way to total non-communication. I will escalate to a point and then over a couple days let interactions return to normal. At minimum this gets the point across of how important the issue was to me.

 

Just curious, what is it like when you are socializing with her family? Do the females treat the males as "equals" or not? Forget about sex - just talking about subtle social interaction cues.

 

 

 

You're right to a point. This literally only arises over sex, not elsewhere, but I do have to get her to show me more "respect". However, I'm taking things slowly and carefully - I think suddenly coming over like Don Corleone might not be entirely productive at this stage. I need her to get to a point where discussion is more embedded as an acceptable thing before wanting to alter everythingat once

[Honorable_Venerable]

Don Corleone - I love the GF series.

 

I agree you should not be overly aggressive all at once, but I will tell you what I have learned. My W sometimes does something hurtful/wrong and then digs in. And then you have to decide what you are going to do. Sometimes I don't escalate all the way to total non-communication. I will escalate to a point and then over a couple days let interactions return to normal. At minimum this gets the point across of how important the issue was to me.

Good idea - I'm not sure what the best approach is in my case - whether withdrawal / non-communication or something else (e.g. immediate notification and discussion ASAP), but I'll start the approach as of now(ish)

Just curious, what is it like when you are socializing with her family? Do the females treat the males as "equals" or not? Forget about sex - just talking about subtle social interaction cues.

Yes and no. They don't treat any of the males as equals, but they treat any unrelated women present with equal contempt. Basically, if they were marching with 100 other people, they would claim THEY were the only ones in step and all the other 100 were out of step. This is compounded by the fact that my MIL could tell W and her sister that dog muck tasted like chocolate ice cream and they would agree with her. Then, when you present MIL with irrefutable evidence that it still tastes like dog doodoo, she would say she had never said it had and had agreed with you all along!

[tnttim]

Being in control means the things she does not affect you. It means you don't run off to a doctor and get pills to lower your sex drive. It means telling her NO once in a while. It means when she plays silly games you put her in check. It means when she says "it's your job to make me orgasm." you get off of her and laugh in her face. It means you stick to your guns no matter what. It means being a effing man....................

[Honorable_Venerable]

Being in control means the things she does not affect you. It means you don't run off to a doctor and get pills to lower your sex drive. It means telling her NO once in a while. It means when she plays silly games you put her in check. It means when she says "it's your job to make me orgasm." you get off of her and laugh in her face. It means you stick to your guns no matter what. It means being a effing man....................

So you mean spit your dummy and chuck your weight about? Why didn't you say so in the first place?

[Phateless]

So you mean spit your dummy and chuck your weight about? Why didn't you say so in the first place?

 

If you wanted to argue with our advice instead of taking it you should have just said so in the first place.

 

Look dude, we're the ones getting laid and we're trying to tell you how to succeed. If you don't want the advice, don't ask for it.

 

It's all about not taking the bait when she tries to fight you, staying calm, cool, unreactive, but standing up for yourself in a mature and assertive way. Learn how to set limits without fighting.

 

"If you yell at me, I'm going to leave for the night and we'll discuss it tomorrow." Then you follow through. Don't get mad or yell back, don't punish, just take yourself out of the situation. Eventually she'll learn that if she wants to talk to you she has to stay calm and reasonable. OR, she'll dig her heels in and you'll learn that she was never going to change anyway and you're better off without her.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Phateless

[Honorable_Venerable]

If you wanted to argue with our advice instead of taking it you should have just said so in the first place.

 

Look dude, we're the ones getting laid and we're trying to tell you how to succeed. If you don't want the advice, don't ask for it.

 

Last time I checked, you didn't have monopoly on advice, even here. You don't feel the need to agree with me, why should I not enjoy the same priviledge? Read my reply to MEM's post above - I'm not arguing everyone's advice - just the stuff I don't believe in, just as you do.

 

 

It's all about not taking the bait when she tries to fight you, staying calm, cool, unreactive, but standing up for yourself in a mature and assertive way. Learn how to set limits without fighting.

 

"If you yell at me, I'm going to leave for the night and we'll discuss it tomorrow." Then you follow through. Don't get mad or yell back, don't punish, just take yourself out of the situation. Eventually she'll learn that if she wants to talk to you she has to stay calm and reasonable. OR, she'll dig her heels in and you'll learn that she was never going to change anyway and you're better off without her.

Up and leave for the night? Like I said- chuck your toys out of the pram.

[Phateless]

Last time I checked, you didn't have monopoly on advice, even here. You don't feel the need to agree with me, why should I not enjoy the same priviledge? Read my reply to MEM's post above - I'm not arguing everyone's advice - just the stuff I don't believe in, just as you do.

 

 

Up and leave for the night? Like I said- chuck your toys out of the pram.

 

Fine, do what you're always done, and you'll get the same results you've always got.

 

Leaving for the night isn't to punish her, it's to protect yourself and avoid the argument. If you can't have an adult discussion there's no point in continuing the relationship at all. Btw, this strategy came directly from my psychologist. If you're married, maybe you don't leave for the night, but you sleep on the couch. Whatever it is, you have to create some space and separation in a non-reactive and assertive manner.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Fine, do what you're always done, and you'll get the same results you've always got.

Ah, but I'm not. I'm not following your advice, but that isn't the same as not doing anything different.

 

Leaving for the night isn't to punish her, it's to protect yourself and avoid the argument. If you can't have an adult discussion there's no point in continuing the relationship at all. Btw, this strategy came directly from my psychologist. If you're married, maybe you don't leave for the night, but you sleep on the couch. Whatever it is, you have to create some space and separation in a non-reactive and assertive manner.

Why? The root cause of the disagreement won't melt away simply by waiting, will it? When does doing this, not reacting and withdrawing, become passive aggressiveness?

[Phateless]

Ah, but I'm not. I'm not following your advice, but that isn't the same as not doing anything different.

 

 

Why? The root cause of the disagreement won't melt away simply by waiting, will it? When does doing this, not reacting and withdrawing, become passive aggressiveness?

 

No, the root cause does not melt away. What does melt away is the childish behavior that hinders a resolution. Eventually she'll realize that if she wants to talk to you, she can do so in a calm and rational manner. This doesn't SOLVE the issue, but it does teach her how she CAN and CANNOT act toward you.

 

does that make sense? Eventually she'll start behaving like an adult and the two of you can have a calm discussion and finally work things out.

[Honorable_Venerable]

No, the root cause does not melt away. What does melt away is the childish behavior that hinders a resolution. Eventually she'll realize that if she wants to talk to you, she can do so in a calm and rational manner. This doesn't SOLVE the issue, but it does teach her how she CAN and CANNOT act toward you.

 

does that make sense?

Put like that, yes it does.

Eventually she'll start behaving like an adult and the two of you can have a calm discussion and finally work things out.

 

You can but hope - how do you react to accusations of being passive aggressive by doing this?

[Phateless]

Put like that, yes it does.

 

 

You can but hope - how do you react to accusations of being passive aggressive by doing this?

 

You make sure you do it in a cool, calm, collected, and unreactive manner. You don't get mad at her fireworks and storm out. You wait for her to be quiet long enough for you to speak and then you very calmly say, "I don't feel like we're communicating very successfully right now. I love you and I want to work this out with you, but I think we're both stressed. I'm going to sleep on the couch give us both some space, and I'll approach you in the morning to discuss this."

 

Then you do it. You never use this as a negotiating tool or a threat, only as a response to her acting out. If you threaten and then don't follow through, all she learns is that she can push you until you make the threat, back off, and then continue to push.

 

She probably will insist that you're being passive-aggressive, but you aren't. DO NOT fire back and tell her that she's the immature one. Just say "no, I'm not doing this out of anger. I'm trying a different approach so that I can communicate with you when *I* have a clear head."

 

Remember, you are doing this FOR YOURSELF, not to punish her.

[tnttim]

 

It's all about not taking the bait when she tries to fight you, staying calm, cool, unreactive, but standing up for yourself in a mature and assertive way. Learn how to set limits without fighting.

 

Exactly, you stand up for yourself, you don't give in to spare a fight, or her feelings. Most of the time it's a silly test that she drummed up in her head. I myself never argue with her feelings, I just say I agree you have those feelings. It's hard to argue when you agree that she feels that way. If she continues, then she is trying to change your feelings, this is where the being a f"ing man comes in. You stand your ground, let her fight it out.

 

I personally never leave, I stay and let her argue. It makes for great make up sex. LOL

[mem11363]

Finding a way to get her to stop being so darn serious. I find that a certain sequence works well:

- low affect, emotionally reserved - friendly but not warm or touchy

- playfully dominant, playfully aggressive physically

 

But this means W needs to be able to "play" with you. Wrestle, pillow fight - etc. Chase you - you chase her - might seem childish. Really is more child like.

 

 

Put like that, yes it does.

 

 

You can but hope - how do you react to accusations of being passive aggressive by doing this?