How I got MY wife into sex

[giotto]

I now have the proof that my wife has sex with me because she feels sorry for me. Last night we were due for an "encounter" after two weeks of no sex. She goes out (even on Valentine's Day - she always goes out on a Monday - but we are not big fans of Valentine's Day, so no big deal)... when she gets back, she apologises and says her period has come early... so no sex. She asks me if I was angry (I used to get angry) and says she nearly sent me a text to warn me. I said I wasn't angry (I don't get angry anymore), but just disappointed and depressed. Then I added: what about you? Are you not annoyed? She said: I don't mind, we can have sex in a few days time....

 

Now, what do I do with a woman like this? Nothing works. I used to get angry and she would hate me and hate sex. I don't get angry and she just brushes it off. This woman has no idea what it means to me, even after numerous conversations about it. I know she has very low libido, she has issues, but what about the poor husband? I hate the fact that she does it to keep me happy. Thinking about a separation, now, seriously.

 

Sorry about the vent. Maybe tnttim has some advice...

[xxoo]

This is probably the biggest killer. In many relationships, love, time, energy, attention and money go on the children first, second and third and if there's any left over, then it goes on the kids unless it's once in a blue moon - after which the parents feel guilty about it! I know people who haven't had a weekend on their own since they've had children, periods of up to ten years in one case. .

 

That's us!

 

But we've prioritized "mommy/daddy" time in our own home. The kids do come first until bedtime--but bedtime is firm (outside of illness or true need). That time is spent together, and it amts to plenty of time over the course of a week.

 

Another reality is that sometimes, after the kids go to bed, the parents prioritize books, video games, tv, internet, etc over couple time.

[Honorable_Venerable]

That's us!

 

But we've prioritized "mommy/daddy" time in our own home. The kids do come first until bedtime--but bedtime is firm (outside of illness or true need). That time is spent together, and it amts to plenty of time over the course of a week.

 

Another reality is that sometimes, after the kids go to bed, the parents prioritize books, video games, tv, internet, etc over couple time.

 

As children get older, bed time gets later and later, and the expectation of time when you get any privacy actually gets less, I've found, having risen a bit when they are young but not babies. When their bedtime is post

2100 and you know you've got to be in bed and going to sleep by 2200, that does NOT amount to plenty of time. Hell, you're supposed to spend nearly that length of time working out!

 

Also, if you feel you can't do ANYTHING except "couple time" for that narrow window, surely this can lead to serious resentment, where people feel that they are obligated to give up ANYTHING else that they enjoy, in order to simply sit next to one another and listen to how cr*p their day was?

[giotto]

As children get older, bed time gets later and later, and the expectation of time when you get any privacy actually gets less, I've found, having risen a bit when they are young but not babies. When their bedtime is post

2100 and you know you've got to be in bed and going to sleep by 2200, that does NOT amount to plenty of time. Hell, you're supposed to spend nearly that length of time working out!

 

Also, if you feel you can't do ANYTHING except "couple time" for that narrow window, surely this can lead to serious resentment, where people feel that they are obligated to give up ANYTHING else that they enjoy, in order to simply sit next to one another and listen to how cr*p their day was?

 

My two youngest (10 and 13) go to bed at ten. Sometimes, I go to bed before them. I don't spend much time with them in the evening (or my wife if she is not at work), because they have monopolized the sitting room and they watch rubbish TV. Seldom there is a programme we can watch together. So there is absolutely no couple time for us. Also, they want to eat at 7 pm latest and I detest eating that early (I'm from Italy... we eat late!). So I cook their meals, but I don't eat with them. It's just useless... it's been like this since my oldest was 3... i.e. 15 years.

[xxoo]

As children get older, bed time gets later and later, and the expectation of time when you get any privacy actually gets less, I've found, having risen a bit when they are young but not babies. When their bedtime is post

2100 and you know you've got to be in bed and going to sleep by 2200, that does NOT amount to plenty of time. Hell, you're supposed to spend nearly that length of time working out!

 

Also, if you feel you can't do ANYTHING except "couple time" for that narrow window, surely this can lead to serious resentment, where people feel that they are obligated to give up ANYTHING else that they enjoy, in order to simply sit next to one another and listen to how cr*p their day was?

 

Arg...now I have to do math, lol. 2100 is 9 pm? Yeah, that's typical here. H normally goes to bed at 2200, but will stay up until 2230-2300 for sex Older kids don't have to be asleep--just in their rooms.

 

Why would you spend precious couple hours talking about your crap day? We watch our fav reruns together--touching, cuddling. Some groping

 

We definitely have challenges carving out time together, so we make the most of what we get

[xxoo]

My two youngest (10 and 13) go to bed at ten. Sometimes, I go to bed before them. I don't spend much time with them in the evening (or my wife if she is not at work), because they have monopolized the sitting room and they watch rubbish TV. Seldom there is a programme we can watch together. So there is absolutely no couple time for us. Also, they want to eat at 7 pm latest and I detest eating that early (I'm from Italy... we eat late!). So I cook their meals, but I don't eat with them. It's just useless... it's been like this since my oldest was 3... i.e. 15 years.

 

Sorry, giotto, but this just seems so inflexible to me!

 

I won't even tell you what time we eat--because it is the only time that our family can all sit down together and eat. It is ridiculously early. But family dinner is our priority.

 

Why can't your wife and you spend time together in a different room (your bedroom!) while the kids watch their rubbish? Kids that age are old enough to be told, "mommy and daddy are going to spend some time together. Do not disturb!"

 

Don't confuse my use of "bedtime" with "kids are asleep". Bedtime means you need to be in your room now, thankyouverymuch.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Arg...now I have to do math, lol. 2100 is 9 pm? Yeah, that's typical here. H normally goes to bed at 2200, but will stay up until 2230-2300 for sex Older kids don't have to be asleep--just in their rooms.

Yep, the window is 9 to 10 in the evening, except Friday / Saturday. Any other day, having to get up at six in the morning (get up and go, not just wake and groan!) makes any later a killer.

Why would you spend precious couple hours talking about your crap day? We watch our fav reruns together--touching, cuddling. Some groping

Because that's support like couples are supposed to provide? Seriously, isn't that sort of listening to one another's problems and being supportive one of the things you're meant to be doing:confused:? I'm not sure I'd quite buy that sitting watching the box is "couple time". If it's a programme you're interested in, you ain't giving your partner your attention!

[giotto]

My wife watches the rubbish TV too! We have a second reception room and there's where I watch TV (also Italian TV). We used to watch TV together, when the kids went to bed at 7 pm and the 8 pm, but now it's impossible. And it is true: this has damaged our relationship enormously. I also work from home, so some evenings I like to go out to see other people and chat over a glass of wine, or whatever. My wife stopped drinking many years ago and never goes out in the evening... just Monday nights... To her, it's just TV, the kids and talking to her sisters on the phone...

[xxoo]

Because that's support like couples are supposed to provide? Seriously, isn't that sort of listening to one another's problems and being supportive one of the things you're meant to be doing:confused:? I'm not sure I'd quite buy that sitting watching the box is "couple time". If it's a programme you're interested in, you ain't giving your partner your attention!

 

We discuss that stuff after work, after dinner, before I go to work, etc. The after bedtime hour is more protected. We treat it like a small "date".

 

We watch reruns of our fav shows. We already know what they will do and say . It is couple time because we are together, touching, sharing something we both enjoy.

 

Whatever. It works for us I'm trying to be helpful!

[xxoo]

My wife watches the rubbish TV too! We have a second reception room and there's where I watch TV (also Italian TV). We used to watch TV together, when the kids went to bed at 7 pm and the 8 pm, but now it's impossible. And it is true: this has damaged our relationship enormously. I also work from home, so some evenings I like to go out to see other people and chat over a glass of wine, or whatever. My wife stopped drinking many years ago and never goes out in the evening... just Monday nights... To her, it's just TV, the kids and talking to her sisters on the phone...

 

This is exactly what I was talking about--prioritizing the "rubbish TV" over the couple time. If my kids are content in one room, and my H is in another room....I meander into the room with H very quietly so that the kids don't notice

 

If she doesn't want to watch Italian TV, surely the two of you could find something you both like to watch if the payoff is time together?

[giotto]

if the payoff is time together?

 

I've come to the conclusion she doesn't want "time together"...

[Honorable_Venerable]

We discuss that stuff after work, after dinner, before I go to work, etc. The after bedtime hour is more protected. We treat it like a small "date".

 

We watch reruns of our fav shows. We already know what they will do and say . It is couple time because we are together, touching, sharing something we both enjoy.

 

Whatever. It works for us I'm trying to be helpful!

I get it now! We ONLY have the after bedtime hour. After work, with cooking / cleaning / carting kids to afterschool activities / homework / paying bills / gardening etc, there's no time to discuss anything or sympathise with anyone!

[xxoo]

I get it now! We ONLY have the after bedtime hour. After work, with cooking / cleaning / carting kids to afterschool activities / homework / paying bills / gardening etc, there's no time to discuss anything or sympathise with anyone!

 

A lot of our talking happens in the kitchen, either while I cook, or while cleaning up after dinner.

 

Why is it like this, HV? I understand that scheduling issues, financial issues, etc come up and make time together nearly impossible. Been there, done that. But we make it a priority to find the balance again.

 

I don't know your situation, but is it really impossible to get more breathing room in your schedule? Or have afterschool activities, gardening, cleaning, etc been given too high priority? Can you afford a few take out meals a week, or a housekeeper twice a month? Can you carpool the afterschool activities? Can the kids be responsible for their own homework a couple days a week?

 

I speak from experience. It was HARD for me to learn how to tell my kids--"Mommy and Daddy are talking" and mean it. I'm not good at being the "tough" parent. But parenting helps us grow, and my kids helped me learn to be more assertive--because I HAD to

[xxoo]

I've come to the conclusion she doesn't want "time together"...

 

There is probably a lot of truth to that

[mem11363]

Our "least connected" periods of time were due to watching tv separately at night.

 

Our most connected periods of time - after dinner we do stuff together that is fun - simple as an hour walking the dogs or playing a sport or board game. It seems that shared positive experience thing makes a BIG difference.

 

 

 

That's us!

 

But we've prioritized "mommy/daddy" time in our own home. The kids do come first until bedtime--but bedtime is firm (outside of illness or true need). That time is spent together, and it amts to plenty of time over the course of a week.

 

Another reality is that sometimes, after the kids go to bed, the parents prioritize books, video games, tv, internet, etc over couple time.

[xxoo]

Our "least connected" periods of time were due to watching tv separately at night.

 

Our most connected periods of time - after dinner we do stuff together that is fun - simple as an hour walking the dogs or playing a sport or board game. It seems that shared positive experience thing makes a BIG difference.

 

Yes!

 

The connection dynamic flows both ways. When we feel connected, it is natural and easy to choose our spouse over the tv show.

 

But when we do NOT feel connected, purposely turning off the tv show and spending that time with our spouse can help us feel more connected....and lead to more sex (back on topic!)

[tnttim]

Sorry about the vent. Maybe tnttim has some advice...

 

If you told her your were dissappointed and depressed, it's just as bad as being mad. Sex should be at the bottom of your list. You have to stop and think how she feels when you react this way. IMO, the best response would have been, "phew, I wasn't in the mood anyway." Don't give her any reasons, let her figure that out on her own. Just keep saying, "I don't know, just not in the mood." This will cause her to think about sex with you over and over again in her mind, and that's what you want. She'll have an internal conflict inside her that can only be solved by having sex with you.

 

It looks like you are at least getting a response out of her, instead of the just deal with it attitude. I think you can convert this into getting a real sexual response out of her, not one of guilt either, AKA pity sex. So don't let her turning you down ruin your day, be proud you got this far.

 

PS-don't feel too bad, I didn't get any for V day either...........

[mem11363]

HV,

At some point I hope you will read your post below and recognize how incredibly one sided it is. Basically it comes down to:

- She gets to shut down any behavior on your part that makes her uncomfortable

- You have to suck it up and deal no matter what she does or does not do regardless how it makes you feel

 

Given your background I think you will appreciate this analogy.

 

In all the basic nuts and bolts stuff - my W and I support each other pretty well. Though of late her work ethic has been better than mine.

 

As for the balance of "needs" in the marriage we have a sort of 75-25 (hers / mine) dynamic equilibrium. She tends to drive towards 100-0, and I tend to steer back towards the middle. It only takes a little emotional pressure from me to offset her somewhat aggressive behavior. And that pressure does NOT come from anger, it comes from cutting back on certain "comforting" things I do in a way she notices.

 

This is like steering the car on the highway on a windy day. Done well no one really notices. And for sure no one gets motion sick.

 

Fascinating isn't it? My first degree is biochemistry, and stuff like this is what got me into the subject in the first place. There isn't too much really good biochem like that in my day to day now, but these huge physical and / or psychological responses to small changes in the concentrations of very ordinary molecules never fails light me up. Be careful, though - you can have too much of a good thing:lmao:

 

 

 

This is (IMO) not good. For every woman that decides based on this to make damned sure that her man has no reason to even look at another woman, because she's giving him all he could wish for, there will be several who either:

1) React by trying to remove him from situations where he interacts with potential "threats", so she feels safe in the knowledge he lacks opportunity; or

2) React either aggressively to him when she sees women are interested ("How dare you let those women find you attractive!") or passive-aggressively, by withdrawing all affection from a man who obviously isn't totally "theirs" irrespective of their actions ("I'll teach YOU to let other women look at you!")

 

 

With great difficulty;). All too often the "mystery, otherness, inaccessibility" is seen as prudishness or prissyness, which is equally unhelpful. This is a very narrow line to walk, because the position of the line probably MOVES over time.

 

 

This is probably the biggest killer. In many relationships, love, time, energy, attention and money go on the children first, second and third and if there's any left over, then it goes on the kids unless it's once in a blue moon - after which the parents feel guilty about it! I know people who haven't had a weekend on their own since they've had children, periods of up to ten years in one case. In circumstances like these, couples can forget HOW to be couples. It may be like riding a bike and you never forget as such, but you surely wobble and fall a few times when you first get back on!

 

Oh, before anyone says you have to make those opportunities - not everyone can. They lack any mechanism to hand the children over to anyone for more than a couple of hours of an evening.

[Honorable_Venerable]

A lot of our talking happens in the kitchen, either while I cook, or while cleaning up after dinner.

 

If one of us is cooking or cleaning, the last thing the other one is going to be doing is standing there gassing. One thing that we are absolutely united on is that if one partner is working, the other had better be doing something constructive too;)

 

Why is it like this, HV? I understand that scheduling issues, financial issues, etc come up and make time together nearly impossible. Been there, done that. But we make it a priority to find the balance again.

 

I don't know your situation, but is it really impossible to get more breathing room in your schedule? Or have afterschool activities, gardening, cleaning, etc been given too high priority? Can you afford a few take out meals a week, or a housekeeper twice a month? Can you carpool the afterschool activities? Can the kids be responsible for their own homework a couple days a week?

 

At present, we can't afford a few meals out a YEAR. We have to spend an inordinate amount of time going over (and over and over and over) finances, deciding exactly what can be spent when. The after school stuff is low cost but high time impact, before anyone asks:D. Going private for my W's psych work (as opposed to waiting about two years to get it through the NHS) has put any and all spending decisions on hiatus. I help my children with their homework because I can. My eldest daughter gets two to three hours a night. Without my help it would be three to four. No one could or would help me when I was in her position and I want to be damned sure she doesn't feel as abandoned as I did.

 

I speak from experience. It was HARD for me to learn how to tell my kids--"Mommy and Daddy are talking" and mean it. I'm not good at being the "tough" parent. But parenting helps us grow, and my kids helped me learn to be more assertive--because I HAD to

[Honorable_Venerable]

HV,

At some point I hope you will read your post below and recognize how incredibly one sided it is. Basically it comes down to:

- She gets to shut down any behavior on your part that makes her uncomfortable

- You have to suck it up and deal no matter what she does or does not do regardless how it makes you feel

No, it was a reasonable question of how you deal with a woman who decides that that is their solution to the "threat" that other women might be. Some women will no doubt try to make sure that no one can "win" their man off them by making sure he doesn't want to be won. Some will withdraw from the game. I merely pointed out that this can happen, and that it ought to be bourne in mind. I'm sure it can be dealt with. I'm sure that I could, should I feel like it, shout, scream, throw my weight around, and generally behave like I'm in a p***ing contest, or else go equally passive-aggessive and set up a Cold War like the one that ended in '87. Im just not sure that being as petty minded as she would be says anything good about me, or would do a sh*t's worth of good.

 

Given your background I think you will appreciate this analogy.

 

In all the basic nuts and bolts stuff - my W and I support each other pretty well. Though of late her work ethic has been better than mine.

 

As for the balance of "needs" in the marriage we have a sort of 75-25 (hers / mine) dynamic equilibrium. She tends to drive towards 100-0, and I tend to steer back towards the middle. It only takes a little emotional pressure from me to offset her somewhat aggressive behavior. And that pressure does NOT come from anger, it comes from cutting back on certain "comforting" things I do in a way she notices.

 

This is like steering the car on the highway on a windy day. Done well no one really notices. And for sure no one gets motion sick.

This, especially the middle para, went straight over my head. I think you'd better go over it with subtitles for the hard of understanding;)

[mem11363]

I mixed and matched 2 very different things. Lets ignore the earlier post.

 

I don't think it is oversimplifying to put "my" direct interactions with my W into two different buckets:

1. Negative emotional behavior. This would consist of doing stuff with the purpose of upsetting her, lowering her self esteem

2. Positive emotional behavior. Basically love in all its myriad and wonderful forms

 

I try really hard not to do 1. On occasion I fail mostly when angry. I do not calmly and deliberately do 1. I sure would not want it done to me. Generally when I err and do 1, I sincerely apologize afterwards.

 

When she is behaving badly - I do less of 2. Maybe a LOT less if she is being extra special difficult. I don't like doing this. I do not do it easily but I do it when it seems needed. Not - I refuse to cook dinner. If it is my job to cook dinner - that is just basic stuff - I do it. But I am not obligated to radiate that warm glow of love - simulcast on her 3 favorite channels if I do not like what is happening. No games though. When the house feels like a big refrigerator or worse an icebox to her she knows exactly why. And she knows where the thermostat is if she wants to raise the temp. Fortunately we have never got in a "long term" deadlock over anything.

 

 

 

 

No, it was a reasonable question of how you deal with a woman who decides that that is their solution to the "threat" that other women might be. Some women will no doubt try to make sure that no one can "win" their man off them by making sure he doesn't want to be won. Some will withdraw from the game. I merely pointed out that this can happen, and that it ought to be bourne in mind. I'm sure it can be dealt with. I'm sure that I could, should I feel like it, shout, scream, throw my weight around, and generally behave like I'm in a p***ing contest, or else go equally passive-aggessive and set up a Cold War like the one that ended in '87. Im just not sure that being as petty minded as she would be says anything good about me, or would do a sh*t's worth of good.

 

 

This, especially the middle para, went straight over my head. I think you'd better go over it with subtitles for the hard of understanding;)

[florence of suburbia]

Be careful, though - you can have too much of a good thing:lmao:

 

Yeah, and I don't want to get absurdly reductive with the biochemical approach. I do still believe in love and transcendence and free will.

 

In terms of your concerns about the jealousy factor with knowing my spouse is desirable, that's why I said "low level". Not to the extent that it would evoke fear or jealousy or massive insecurity, just enough to know it's a real possibility for another woman to desire him.

 

All too often the "mystery, otherness, inaccessibility" is seen as prudishness or prissyness, which is equally unhelpful. This is a very narrow line to walk, because the position of the line probably MOVES over time.

 

I know what you mean here. The Victorians were prudes. Imagine getting turned on at the sight of a woman's ankle!! It's and but it's also .

 

Re the kids issue, most nights at the dinner table we literally cannot get a word in. And if we do get one or two in, we're immediately interrupted by a summary of what happened on "Suite Life on Deck" today or the latest gossip from the middle school girls locker room.

[xxoo]

If one of us is cooking or cleaning, the last thing the other one is going to be doing is standing there gassing. One thing that we are absolutely united on is that if one partner is working, the other had better be doing something constructive too;)

.

 

Support and bonding is constructive!

 

Also, you can clean up together and talk. Multitask

 

But seriously, balance is the key word. Help the kids with homework is important, but so is time to nurture your relationship. If the kids are getting afterschool activities and homework help, and the marriage is getting nothing, the balance is off. You can't expect a marriage to thrive when it gets NO time.

[giotto]

If you told her your were dissappointed and depressed, it's just as bad as being mad.

 

I re-read my post and I think I phrased it badly. She asked me not to get mad and I said I wasn't mad, it was ok... I felt depressed and disappointed, but I didn't let it show. I said I was asleep, anyway, and I asked her if she was bothered we didn't have sex that night - because she never is... you know the answer... obviously, she doesn't want to upset me, but she still doesn't do enough... she is too selfish. We could have had sex the night before... she wasn't tired, she got up really late that morning, but she chose not to. I'm seriously thinking of moving back into my office. She hates sleeping on her own, but I sleep much better and I don't get distracted by trivial stuff like having sex with my wife...

[giotto]

Support and bonding is constructive!

 

Also, you can clean up together and talk. Multitask

 

But seriously, balance is the key word. Help the kids with homework is important, but so is time to nurture your relationship. If the kids are getting afterschool activities and homework help, and the marriage is getting nothing, the balance is off. You can't expect a marriage to thrive when it gets NO time.

 

That's what happened to us...