How I got MY wife into sex

[Floridaman]

I re-read my post and I think I phrased it badly. She asked me not to get mad and I said I wasn't mad, it was ok... I felt depressed and disappointed, but I didn't let it show. I said I was asleep, anyway, and I asked her if she was bothered we didn't have sex that night - because she never is... you know the answer... obviously, she doesn't want to upset me, but she still doesn't do enough... she is too selfish. We could have had sex the night before... she wasn't tired, she got up really late that morning, but she chose not to. I'm seriously thinking of moving back into my office. She hates sleeping on her own, but I sleep much better and I don't get distracted by trivial stuff like having sex with my wife...

Sounds what my marriage used to be like. I too slept in a guest room worknights... But have changed that...

[giotto]

Sounds what my marriage used to be like. I too slept in a guest room worknights... But have changed that...

 

I slept before in my office when we separated... I should have stayed there...

[xxoo]

giotto--as you post more details about your relationship in general, I wonder if the bigger issue is that you've let distance set in between you, and she's grown out of love. That won't be improved by adding more sex unless you ALSO add all the "courting" elements of a relationship. She is avoiding time with you, as much as she avoids sex with you.

 

I wonder if this is also true in HV's marriage. If his wife wantedan hour a day of cozy cuddling and enjoying each other's company, would the time be found?

 

In the case of basically affectionate marriages, but a low libido wife, I do think that "just have more sex" is useful advice for the woman.

 

But in the case of a low affection marriage (little touch outside of sex), where the husband and wife spend very little time alone together, I don't think adding more sex alone will improve much. You may get more sex to keep the marriage alive (barely), but you won't get her desire back with sex alone.

[giotto]

giotto--as you post more details about your relationship in general, I wonder if the bigger issue is that you've let distance set in between you, and she's grown out of love. That won't be improved by adding more sex unless you ALSO add all the "courting" elements of a relationship. She is avoiding time with you, as much as she avoids sex with you.

 

I wonder if this is also true in HV's marriage. If his wife wantedan hour a day of cozy cuddling and enjoying each other's company, would the time be found?

 

In the case of basically affectionate marriages, but a low libido wife, I do think that "just have more sex" is useful advice for the woman.

 

But in the case of a low affection marriage (little touch outside of sex), where the husband and wife spend very little time alone together, I don't think adding more sex alone will improve much. You may get more sex to keep the marriage alive (barely), but you won't get her desire back with sex alone.

 

I think you are spot on... but the distance grew out of her inability to communicate her problems and deal with her issues in a way which wouldn't shut me out of the relationship. I'm aware that rekindling the relationship would lead to more sex, but I'm pretty wary of trying that for 3 main reasons:

 

- I don't really want to get close only to be hurt again

- Her past behaviour has made me fall out of love with her to a certain extent

- She needs to solve her issues, otherwise we will be back to square one

 

I have my faults too... after a long time of trying to get through to her, I basically gave up, angry and resentful, and isolated myself, until our separation. After that, we decided to give it another shot, but nothing has really changed because she won't solve her issues. So, I've resigned myself and I only hope we can have a better physical relationship, so at least something is satisfactory. Needless to say that, after - again - a good start, she is back to her own self. I've changed a lot, but it's not enough...

[Honorable_Venerable]

Support and bonding is constructive!

 

Also, you can clean up together and talk.

Not in different rooms you can't! . I can make myself heard, but that's different;)

 

But seriously, balance is the key word. Help the kids with homework is important, but so is time to nurture your relationship. If the kids are getting afterschool activities and homework help, and the marriage is getting nothing, the balance is off. You can't expect a marriage to thrive when it gets NO time.

ATM, every spare minute is accounted for with trying to earn extra gelt to pay for stuff. I'm roughly the world's least enthusiastic exerciser, but at the moment my number of missed workouts is embarassing even me:eek:! It isn't ideal but as Lord Blackadder said: "Needs must when the devil prods you from behind with his pitchfork..."

[Honorable_Venerable]

giotto--as you post more details about your relationship in general, I wonder if the bigger issue is that you've let distance set in between you, and she's grown out of love. That won't be improved by adding more sex unless you ALSO add all the "courting" elements of a relationship. She is avoiding time with you, as much as she avoids sex with you.

 

I can't speak for Giotto, but TBH, the courting elements are generally a waste of time. If someone is only interested on you on their own terms, you "courting" them is not going to make them want you more. In fact I suspect it sends the message that you're a mug as effectively as anything apart from a hat with the words on it in glowing lights.

 

I wonder if this is also true in HV's marriage. If his wife wanted an hour a day of cozy cuddling and enjoying each other's company, would the time be found?

 

Once, there would be an expectation that it ought to be found, without delay or arguement, as long as she wants it and not a moment longer (i.e. if she no longer wanted it, it would cease abruptly).

 

Now I'm most likely to ask why, and if it's something we both want, and if I ask whether she will be similarly obliging. Certainly her saying that I will stop flytying and sit like a lemon while she watches cr*p on the TV "because she wants me to" is not a flier.

[xxoo]

Not in different rooms you can't! . I can make myself heard, but that's different;)

 

How big is your kitchen?

I'm sure you can clean together, in the same room. One person puts away leftover and the other rinses the dishes. Meanwhile, you talk. Kids are shooed out. Some quality time over the dishes

 

 

ATM, every spare minute is accounted for with trying to earn extra gelt to pay for stuff. I'm roughly the world's least enthusiastic exerciser, but at the moment my number of missed workouts is embarassing even me:eek:! It isn't ideal but as Lord Blackadder said: "Needs must when the devil prods you from behind with his pitchfork..."

 

That is sometimes reality, but is "crisis mode". When it becomes "normal mode" to never spend time alone together, that's a lifestyle choice.

 

I can't speak for Giotto, but TBH, the courting elements are generally a waste of time. If someone is only interested on you on their own terms, you "courting" them is not going to make them want you more. In fact I suspect it sends the message that you're a mug as effectively as anything apart from a hat with the words on it in glowing lights.

 

I think I worded that badly. I didn't mean to imply one-sided courting. What I meant is that she needs to engage in courting behaviors. Giotto and his wife came to an agreement that they would have sex minimum every X days, but there didn't (apparently...sorry if I am assuming wrong) address all the days in between when there was no time spent together, no touching, etc. IMO, there needs also be an agreement that the couple will spend X hours a week together (alone), and have a standing appt on the couch each evening for a 20 minute cuddle. Making sex a requirement is not going to renew her passion, but making quality time together might.

 

 

 

Once, there would be an expectation that it ought to be found, without delay or arguement, as long as she wants it and not a moment longer (i.e. if she no longer wanted it, it would cease abruptly).

 

Now I'm most likely to ask why, and if it's something we both want, and if I ask whether she will be similarly obliging. Certainly her saying that I will stop flytying and sit like a lemon while she watches cr*p on the TV "because she wants me to" is not a flier.

 

Ok, now I need you to translate, lol. I have no idea what this means!

Edited February 16, 2011 by xxoo

[xxoo]

Making sex a requirement is not going to renew her passion, but making quality time together might.

 

To be clear, both are necessary. Spending time together with no sex won't work, either.

 

The reason I used the word "courting" is because it mirrors how we acted together when we were courting each other. We made time for each other. We sat close and always touched. We talked and talked. We had sex. All of these together maintain the "in love" feelings.

[tnttim]

To be clear, both are necessary. Spending time together with no sex won't work, either.

 

The reason I used the word "courting" is because it mirrors how we acted together when we were courting each other. We made time for each other. We sat close and always touched. We talked and talked. We had sex. All of these together maintain the "in love" feelings.

 

The second I used the courting state of mind with my W it helped out the relationship tremendously.

 

Face it women love the attention a man gives her, they love the chase. It's makes her feel loved and sexy on a whole new level when you treat her like a potential date, instead of the fish you already landed.

[tnttim]

HV, I've been reading your posts on here for a good while now, and think I can give you some perspective.

 

You are very smart and concise with your thoughts. They follow logic to the letter. You think before you act, or speak.

 

The problem with this way of thought and women is they mix as well as oil and water. Women, most of the time, use feelings and not logic to think out a problem.

 

I think you have been using a lot of logic to solve your sex problem, and time after time it doesn't work. That's why I say and do the things I do, to open up your mind that logic isn't always the answer. Don't get me wrong logic is a great way to solve problems, but logic stifles creativity, and haults new ideas in your mind, because you say "that will never work." sound famaliar?????

 

You have to be more like Edison when it comes to your W, do something that makes no sense to you once on a while, because that's how inventions are craeted. Some day, someone said I'm sick of candles, and now we have the light bulb. Edsion failed 20,000 times before he got it right, he had to eventually think outside the box to come up with the Tungstein fillament, but he did.

 

Do something spontaneous for a change, surprise your wife with something off the wall.

[LittleTiger]

Edsion failed 20,000 times before he got it right, he had to eventually think outside the box to come up with the Tungstein fillament, but he did..

 

Actually tnttim, Edison didn't fail at all. Edison discovered several thousand ways 'how not to make a light bulb'.

 

That's what these guys are doing too. They are discovering how to successfully NOT mend their marriages. Eventually they'll find a solution that works or they'll give it up as an impossible job.

 

However, there's a big difference between HV, giotto et al and Thomas Edison and it isn't the fact that they're not thinking 'outside the box' enough.

 

HV, giotto et al's problem is that the 'thing' they are working with is not an inanimate object - it's not made of glass and metal, it's flesh and bone and has a mind of it's own - it's called a wife.........and what they are trying to 'reinvent' is a 'living', 'breathing', ever changing 'organism' called marriage.

[giotto]

Actually tnttim, Edison didn't fail at all. Edison discovered several thousand ways 'how not to make a light bulb'.

 

That's what these guys are doing too. They are discovering how to successfully NOT mend their marriages. Eventually they'll find a solution that works or they'll give it up as an impossible job.

 

However, there's a big difference between HV, giotto et al and Thomas Edison and it isn't the fact that they're not thinking 'outside the box' enough.

 

HV, giotto et al's problem is that the 'thing' they are working with is not an inanimate object - it's not made of glass and metal, it's flesh and bone and has a mind of it's own - it's called a wife.........and what they are trying to 'reinvent' is a 'living', 'breathing', ever changing 'organism' called marriage.

 

Seems to me that tnttim's strategy (or call it what you like) has been applied to a fairly "standard" (I hope you will pass me this expression), fairly issue-free woman. HV's wife has big issues - and at least she is trying to solve them - my wife has big issues too and no libido at all (read ADs). If I give up on sex, putting it at the bottom of the list - we will never have sex. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks... is my wife bothered about this? Not in the least...

[LittleTiger]

Tomorrow will be 3 weeks... is my wife bothered about this? Not in the least...

 

Towards the end of my marriage we once had a stretch of 9 months without sex!!!

 

Was my exH bothered about this? Who knows, but I'm guessing......not in the least. He wouldn't talk to me about it and he wouldn't go to MC.

 

When you come up against a 30,000ft vertical wall of sheet ice and you eventually accept that you don't have the resources to climb it, you only have two options:

 

1) You stand at the foot of the wall and wait for a miracle.

2) You walk away.

 

I stood and waited for the miracle - what a waste of life.

[giotto]

Towards the end of my marriage we once had a stretch of 9 months without sex!!!

 

Was my exH bothered about this? Who knows, but I'm guessing......not in the least. He wouldn't talk to me about it and he wouldn't go to MC.

 

When you come up against a 30,000ft vertical wall of sheet ice and you eventually accept that you don't have the resources to climb it, you only have two options:

 

1) You stand at the foot of the wall and wait for a miracle.

2) You walk away.

 

I stood and waited for the miracle - what a waste of life.

 

If it carries on like this, I will be out soon... maybe not out of the house, but out of our relationship.

 

When I don't complain, my needs are put in the back-burner... it's like they don't exist anymore. This is what I should do, according to tnttim. But my wife is actually happy when I keep quiet. I can see her point of view. She doesn't feel the urge, so if she is not reminded, it's like sex doesn't exist... this from a woman who proposed a sexless marriage to me. Maybe tnttim can have a go himself? He is welcome to her, really...

[LittleTiger]

If it carries on like this, I will be out soon... maybe not out of the house, but out of our relationship.

 

When I don't complain, my needs are put in the back-burner... it's like they don't exist anymore. This is what I should do, according to tnttim. But my wife is actually happy when I keep quiet. I can see her point of view. She doesn't feel the urge, so if she is not reminded, it's like sex doesn't exist... this from a woman who proposed a sexless marriage to me. Maybe tnttim can have a go himself? He is welcome to her, really...

 

Unless your wife found tnttim irresistably attractive, in which case he could 'kick-start' her libido, he wouldn't fare any better than you do - no matter what strategy he used.

 

I think it's tragic when marriages break down and all the more so when children are involved, but I think it's equally tragic when two people live together in misery - even if only one of them is miserable.

 

I'm not sure how long you've been living like this so far, but how much longer can you stand it? If your wife doesn't care, she has no motivation to change. If you care, which you obviously do, what has to happen before you decide enough is enough?

[giotto]

Unless your wife found tnttim irresistably attractive, in which case he could 'kick-start' her libido, he wouldn't fare any better than you do - no matter what strategy he used.

 

I think it's tragic when marriages break down and all the more so when children are involved, but I think it's equally tragic when two people live together in misery - even if only one of them is miserable.

 

 

The children are the most important thing for me. Maybe we don't project the image of two parents who can't take their hands off each other and are madly in love, but stability is important too and they are in a very stable family. They are all doing brilliantly at school/uni and are confident and I suppose this is down to us. I wouldn't like to disturb this, just because I'm not getting much sex.

 

Am I miserable? Not always. Sometimes, when her coldness reminds me that I'm not that important to her, regardless of what she says. I do think that she's ruined my life. It's maybe a harsh thing to say, but I believe now that she has, especially these last ten years.

 

I'm not sure how long you've been living like this so far, but how much longer can you stand it? If your wife doesn't care, she has no motivation to change. If you care, which you obviously do, what has to happen before you decide enough is enough?

 

How much longer? I have no idea. What has to happen before I decide enough is enough? Nothing... I've had enough already.

[LittleTiger]

The children are the most important thing for me..................It's maybe a harsh thing to say, but I believe now that she has, especially these last ten years.

 

I can understand that. My brother is in a very similar situation though I have no idea about his sex life. It does break my heart to think of him so unhappy but then he sees it as a sacrifice worth making for his children. I think the children will be fine - but they're not my children, so it's not my decision.

 

How much longer? I have no idea. What has to happen before I decide enough is enough? Nothing... I've had enough already.

 

Ah, but you haven't. If you'd really had enough you would be taking action - as you did in the past.

 

If you place your hand on a cool hob and turn up the heat - at some point, when the heat starts to burn, you will move your hand. If you don't move your hand it's because the hob isn't yet hot enough or because something (external to you) is holding it there.

[giotto]

If you place your hand on a cool hob and turn up the heat - at some point, when the heat starts to burn, you will move your hand. If you don't move your hand it's because the hob isn't yet hot enough or because something (external to you) is holding it there.

 

Good analogy... I suppose it's not hot enough yet... , but if she keeps disrespecting me (although she doesn't "get" this), it will get unbearable. My problem is: how do I communicate this to her? If I keep banging on (no pun intended) about sex, she will withdraw. If I do nothing, I will bear the consequences. I suppose the best option is separation again. It will break her heart, though.

[LittleTiger]

Good analogy... I suppose it's not hot enough yet... , but if she keeps disrespecting me (although she doesn't "get" this), it will get unbearable. My problem is: how do I communicate this to her? If I keep banging on (no pun intended) about sex, she will withdraw. If I do nothing, I will bear the consequences. I suppose the best option is separation again. It will break her heart, though.

 

I admire your loyalty and the fact that you don't want to hurt her, but isn't she already hurting you? How come it's ok for her to 'ruin your life' for 10 years or more but it's not ok for you to get what you need in order to be happy?

 

If you are struggling to make yourself understood, try using an analogy like I did. I don't know how creative you are but can you think of a simple story or situation to use as a metaphor that she can relate to?

 

Does she even know that you are 'in pain'........or does she just hear a constant nagging along the lines of 'I'm a man, I need sex'? Does she understand what it's like to be hurt so deeply by your spouse?

 

Maybe you're not being entirely honest with her about exactly what the lack of sex means to you. You mention she's 'disrespecting' you - is that it? Is that all you feel - disrespected? If that's not all, what else do you feel that you haven't shared with her?

 

Most women are good at empathising with other people's feelings but understanding a man's need for sex isn't easy if you have no interest in sex yourself - especially if you're presenting it to her in a rational, logical, masculine way and as a largely physical need.

 

If you can reach a point where she understands how much she is hurting you and she still isn't prepared to meet you half way then you have to make a choice. You can 'break her heart' or you can allow her to continue to hurt you until the pain does become 'unbearable' and then 'break her heart'. The final outcome is the same but one option is a lot more painful for you.

[giotto]

She knows exactly how important it is to me... we nearly divorced over this, remember? She just thinks she can push things, I suppose. I also understand that it must be difficult to pay attention to your husband's needs in a part of the marriage you are not interested in, because you don't feel the need to have sex. So, it's complex. A little more effort would go a long way. On the other hand, it's horrible to know that your wife is having sex to keep you there. I know it's up to me to break this vicious circle... and we are getting there, also because sex is becoming quite stale...

 

I admire your loyalty and the fact that you don't want to hurt her, but isn't she already hurting you? How come it's ok for her to 'ruin your life' for 10 years or more but it's not ok for you to get what you need in order to be happy?

 

If you are struggling to make yourself understood, try using an analogy like I did. I don't know how creative you are but can you think of a simple story or situation to use as a metaphor that she can relate to?

 

Does she even know that you are 'in pain'........or does she just hear a constant nagging along the lines of 'I'm a man, I need sex'? Does she understand what it's like to be hurt so deeply by your spouse?

 

Maybe you're not being entirely honest with her about exactly what the lack of sex means to you. You mention she's 'disrespecting' you - is that it? Is that all you feel - disrespected? If that's not all, what else do you feel that you haven't shared with her?

 

Most women are good at empathising with other people's feelings but understanding a man's need for sex isn't easy if you have no interest in sex yourself - especially if you're presenting it to her in a rational, logical, masculine way and as a largely physical need.

 

If you can reach a point where she understands how much she is hurting you and she still isn't prepared to meet you half way then you have to make a choice. You can 'break her heart' or you can allow her to continue to hurt you until the pain does become 'unbearable' and then 'break her heart'. The final outcome is the same but one option is a lot more painful for you.

[LittleTiger]

She knows exactly how important it is to me... we nearly divorced over this, remember? She just thinks she can push things, I suppose. I also understand that it must be difficult to pay attention to your husband's needs in a part of the marriage you are not interested in, because you don't feel the need to have sex. So, it's complex. A little more effort would go a long way. On the other hand, it's horrible to know that your wife is having sex to keep you there. I know it's up to me to break this vicious circle... and we are getting there, also because sex is becoming quite stale...

 

It certainly is complex but I'd still question if she understands how important it is. You nearly divorced - you didn't actually divorce. So, yes, she knows she can push things.

 

It's interesting you say "it's up to me to break the vicious circle ..... and (yet) we are getting there." How is she involved, other than holding you to ransom? The truth is neither of you are getting anywhere.

 

I hope, for your sake, that hob gets too hot very soon. Even if she's holding your hand down, when it reaches that point you will do whatever it takes to get away - even if you have to 'slap her across the face' (metaphorically speaking) to do so.

 

Anyway - I think I may have said enough for today.

[giotto]

I think the problem is that I don't follow through. She knows that I will stay, regardless, because of the children. I even said that in counselling once. I just wish she wouldn't take me for granted so much and show me some respect. But then why should she if I'm a door mat in her eyes? And that's why it's up to me to break the circle, even if - in case we separate - I'd still be here, acting as a father. I would still do everything I do now, but at least this very unpleasant Sword of Damocles will be lifted from my head...

 

It certainly is complex but I'd still question if she understands how important it is. You nearly divorced - you didn't actually divorce. So, yes, she knows she can push things.

 

It's interesting you say "it's up to me to break the vicious circle ..... and (yet) we are getting there." How is she involved, other than holding you to ransom? The truth is neither of you are getting anywhere.

 

I hope, for your sake, that hob gets too hot very soon. Even if she's holding your hand down, when it reaches that point you will do whatever it takes to get away - even if you have to 'slap her across the face' (metaphorically speaking) to do so.

 

Anyway - I think I may have said enough for today.

[LittleTiger]

I'd still be here, acting as a father. I would still do everything I do now, but at least this very unpleasant Sword of Damocles will be lifted from my head...

 

......and you could go out and get some sex!

 

(Oops, did I say that out loud? )

 

Funny thing is giotto, the way I see it, you are the one holding the sword but you're just not ready to use it - and she knows that.

[giotto]

......and you could go out and get some sex!

 

(Oops, did I say that out loud? )

 

Funny thing is giotto, the way I see it, you are the one holding the sword but you're just not ready to use it - and she knows that.

 

Absolutely... And thank you for the free therapy session..

[LittleTiger]

Absolutely... And thank you for the free therapy session..

 

You're welcome ....... good job it was free cos I'm not sure that I helped!