How do I use the info I have to get my wife to own up to her A?

[sruben]

Yes, work ahead indeed.

 

OP is going off course with this hand-job insanity.

 

I am aware, and IC confirmed, that I am obsessing. I do that sometimes, in the absence of hard data. Just how I'm wired.

 

But he gave me some other things to work on as well, which I am going to put into practice in the coming days.

[Just a stone's throw]

sruben - how did your IC session go? Did you find the first session worthwhile? Does your W know you went and how did she react when you returned? Did you discuss your session?

 

Please keep posting. You will get there in your own time and in your own way.

[sruben]

So you know she's willingly maniplulating you!!!

 

and yet you dont believe she can do something else worse. dude the signs are evident. One person cant save the marriage alone!!!

 

You need to find out where you guys both stand!!!

 

IS SHE IN OR OUT!!!

 

Yes, I do know that she is manipulating me, but I am changing how I am responding to that.

 

I am working on it with her. Not sure when our next talk is going to be, maybe tomorrow night (I work tonight) or this weekend. We'll see. She's started asking me what she would have called "strange questions" last year -- last night said something about how I seem to be coming home later than usual, lately. Yes, I am, and I acknowledge it. Interesting that she asked, she usually doesn't do that... (I was at IC, for those of you not following closely. And no, I didn't tell her that yet). Her question was general and I gave her the true general answer (like she's been doing), but I don't plan to make a habit of that. I actually have a plan on how to handle the half-truths and gaslighting. May not work, but it's worth a try...

[Chrome Barracuda]

Dude, Talk is cheap!!! ACTIONS SPEAK!

 

Why are you so afraid of standing up to her, gain your respect???

 

Tell her yes! ive been seeing a councilor and if you dont like it you can shove it up your azz.

 

She sounds like a control freak. Plus she's cheating, why stay with a woman like that?

 

I'm a guy who breaks everything down to the barebones and comes to a conclusion. Without emotions, without the memories. they can be factors but not the main motivators.

 

If 2+2=4 then it cannot be 2+2=5! you get my drift.

 

Either she's willing to shape up or ship out.

 

Are you getting tired of her bull****?

[turnera]

Yes, I do know that she is manipulating me, but I am changing how I am responding to that.

 

I am working on it with her. Not sure when our next talk is going to be, maybe tomorrow night (I work tonight) or this weekend. We'll see. She's started asking me what she would have called "strange questions" last year -- last night said something about how I seem to be coming home later than usual, lately. Yes, I am, and I acknowledge it. Interesting that she asked, she usually doesn't do that... (I was at IC, for those of you not following closely. And no, I didn't tell her that yet). Her question was general and I gave her the true general answer (like she's been doing), but I don't plan to make a habit of that. I actually have a plan on how to handle the half-truths and gaslighting. May not work, but it's worth a try...

"Yeah, I had to come home late last night because I had an IC appointment, and he couldn't see me until 8pm."

 

Case closed. That's all you have to say. And then you walk away and go fix yourself a sandwich.

 

btw, when cheaters cheat, they start accusing their spouse of cheating. Pretty standard action. You can read about it in any surviving an affair book.

[sruben]

sruben - how did your IC session go? Did you find the first session worthwhile?

 

It went as well as could be expected -- he's a BS, ended up divorced (now remarried). In my state of obsession, I'm afraid I did most of the talking, but I did stop at one point so that he could talk! ;-) He gave me three things to do between now and our next appt, one of which is to try obsessing less (he knows, easier said than done).

 

He wants to meet again in about a week, but I told him that I thought it would take me longer to implement what he's asked e to do -- that 3 or 4 weeks might work better for me.

 

Does your W know you went and how did she react when you returned? Did you discuss your session?

 

She doesn't know, but I think she suspects. She asked me when I got home why it seems like I've been getting home later than usual, lately. I told her she's right, and that there's a detour that takes me 5-10 minutes out of my way (this is true -- not expected to be fixed for two more months! Argh!).

 

Hey, she asked a general question, I gave her a general answer. That's always been her habit. ;-) But I do intend to tell her, just not right now. I don't want the drama to interfere with me getting better regarding the obsessing.

 

Please keep posting. You will get there in your own time and in your own way.

 

Thank you!

[sruben]

"Yeah, I had to come home late last night because I had an IC appointment, and he couldn't see me until 8pm."

 

I wasn't that late. 10-15 min, and not unusual.

 

Case closed. That's all you have to say. And then you walk away and go fix yourself a sandwich.

 

You haven't been paying attention. That's not where it would end. She'd make a federal case out of it...in front of the kids.

 

btw, when cheaters cheat, they start accusing their spouse of cheating. Pretty standard action. You can read about it in any surviving an affair book.

 

Now THAT much I believe, and I've read that, too. I don't think she's cheating now (I could be wrong), but it's interesting. Last weekend a guy friend of mine called me on my cell while I was downloading music, it's a new phone so I was trying to figure out how to turn on the BT and told him to hold on. She knows who this guy is, but asked me after I was done talking to him (I'd closed my office door because the kids were being noisy), "Who was that?" I told her, and she said, "but it was a female voice..." Um, no, but my friend thought that was funny. He said to please assure my wife he has no intentions of changing gender anytime soon... ;-)

 

I haven't checked the cell phone records in several days, maybe I should go do that now...

[turnera]

Federal case...

 

Here's the thing.

 

You have a MAJOR issue of conflict avoidance. You probably picked the kind of woman you picked because of that in your past. Weak men (sorry) pick strong women; you follow a pattern from your FOO.

 

The reason she most likely chose to cheat is because she can't respect you. Because you avoid conflict. It makes women hate men. Literally.

 

If you ever want her to notice you again, care about you, love you, you will HAVE to face your fears and just go ahead and let the fireworks burst.

 

Tell your kids you are making some adjustments and to expect the fireworks. Then calmly and lovingly STAND YOUR GROUND.

 

You've got to start sometime, ok? May as well make it NOW, when your whole marriage depends on it.

[2sunny]

It went as well as could be expected -- he's a BS, ended up divorced (now remarried). In my state of obsession, I'm afraid I did most of the talking, but I did stop at one point so that he could talk! ;-) He gave me three things to do between now and our next appt, one of which is to try obsessing less (he knows, easier said than done).

 

He wants to meet again in about a week, but I told him that I thought it would take me longer to implement what he's asked e to do -- that 3 or 4 weeks might work better for me.

 

 

nope! not good enough... you need action! action EVERYDAY - as if this is the only day you get. DO what the counselor suggested. do it today - all day, and everyday until you see him next week.

 

then meet him again next week. get MORE assignments from him and DO those as well - willingly! move forward - as quickly as possible, it is only in your best interest. do not worry about what she is or isn't doing as that is beside the point right now. you need to do this for YOU.

 

even if you think you may not divorce her - start acting like it. SHE needs a wake up call and needs to be damn uncomfortable to get that through her head. IF she stays comfortable she will never make an effort - especially if she thinks you'll never leave.

 

get busy taking care of YOU. action - stop talking and starting DOING! TODAY!

 

if nothing changes = nothing changes... what you are looking for here is major change, get it?

[sruben]

Federal case...

 

Here's the thing.

 

You have a MAJOR issue of conflict avoidance. You probably picked the kind of woman you picked because of that in your past. Weak men (sorry) pick strong women; you follow a pattern from your FOO.

 

The reason she most likely chose to cheat is because she can't respect you. Because you avoid conflict. It makes women hate men. Literally.

 

If you ever want her to notice you again, care about you, love you, you will HAVE to face your fears and just go ahead and let the fireworks burst.

 

Tell your kids you are making some adjustments and to expect the fireworks. Then calmly and lovingly STAND YOUR GROUND.

 

You've got to start sometime, ok? May as well make it NOW, when your whole marriage depends on it.

 

I didn't start off that way. Then again, we didn't have much conflict in the first 4 years of our marriage. That started about the 4th year, we continued to have conflict regarding sexual issues and her past and her expectation that eventually I would cheat on her (despite my assurances to the contrary). By the seventh year, I was tired of our conflicts never getting resolved, so chose not to fight any more. I kind of withdrew. I'm sure that contributed to whatever she did or claims not to have done last June.

 

However, we have started conflicting again as of around 6 weeks ago when she started working again. I'm not avoiding ALL conflict with her, but certain issues I am not wasting energy to address while the major ones go unaddressed. She doesn't want to tackle the elephant in the room and I have tried, but she'd rather fight about whether or not I need a IC. She says I'm crazy, imagining or making up things she says, but doesn't want me to get help! Why should I fight that one before the other? Doesn't make sense to me. But if I'm the crazy one, surely the IC will arrive at that conclusion and help me to get out from under that?

 

BTW, I am not adamant about waiting 3-4 weeks, and may go see him again next week (he was suggesting even tomorrow). I haven't decided yet.

 

Again, I don't think she's having an affair right now -- I just checked cell records again, and don't see anything unusual there, and she is home most of the time she's not at work, and often has one or more girls with her when she is gone.

 

She does have a hair appt today, but if she were doing something else instead, I think it would be pretty obvious from her gray roots...

[michaelhopes]

I cant help but feel your situation is only going to get worse. You might have some periods of relative peace but your wife is destructive and that probably wont change. The only thing that really matters here is that your daughter knows that you love her and will always be there for her regardless if you are with her mother or not. Dont let her see your wife walk all over you. In the long run she will know whats up regardless of any B.S. her mother feeds her.

[turnera]

Speaking of daughter, you should have ONE response and one response ONLY regarding separating: You are free to leave, but my daughter stays with ME.

[Dazedme]

An EA is so hard because sometimes the people having them don't even know it's happening. This type of affair can end more relationships than PAs for that reason. They sneak in while no one is looking. First off proof of an emotional affair usually is locked away inside the cheater's head. Confronting with no proof will just send her into fight or flight. Instead, write down these questions and have her answer honestly.

• Does your friend seem to understand you better than your spouse?
  
• When confronted about an emotional affair do you respond “We’re just friends”?
  
• Do you find excuses to walk past or bump into this friend?
  
• Are you more aware of or wear nicer/sexier clothing because you know you will be seeing this friend?[/FONT]
  
• Do you talk to this friend more than your other friends?
  
• Have you ever lied about being out to lunch or with that friend to your spouse?
  
• Do you bash your spouse to this friend or feel uncomfortable talking about your spouse?
  
• Do you feel uncomfortable talking about this friend with your spouse?
  
• Do you think about the other person when you are with your spouse?
  
• Do you find reasons to be alone with this friend?
  
• Have you done or said anything with this friend you wouldn’t want your spouse to know about?
  
• Have you tried keeping your friendship with this person a secret?
  
• Have you lied to your other friends about going out with or meeting this friend?
  
• Have any of your friends warned you against your actions with this friend?
  
• Does your friend’s spouse know about you?
  
• Does this friend bash his/her spouse to you?
  
• Are you not interested in being intimate with your spouse, physically or emotionally?
  
• Do you cut into the time you could spend with your spouse to be with the friend?
  
• Do you not feel comfortable calling and talking to this friend in front of your spouse?
  

20. Have you found reasons to give this person gifts?

 

Then ask her to talk about her answers with you and let her know that you are giving her a "get out of jail free" card. She may see that she has had an Emotional Affair and confess. Even if she doesn't confess she will look at her relationship closer.

Try this book. It helped me.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003MZ0QQS/ref=cm_cr_mts_prod_img

Edited May 20, 2010 by Dazedme
font

[sruben]

Speaking of daughter, you should have ONE response and one response ONLY regarding separating: You are free to leave, but my daughter stays with ME.

 

That will definitely be my response! However, I guess a judge has the final say, and in this state, they've always tended to favor the mother in custody cases. I'd have to demonstrate unfitness to strengthen my case (which is why I plan to video the next time she goes nuclear on the girls, if she does it in front of me. Documentation).

[Owl]

Not that I think living my life based upon what a fictional character says (or the screenwriter or author made up), but I do think the principle is worthwhile.

 

If you've read what I've bene doing the last couple of days, what do you think?

 

Well, in complete honesty I think you're TALKING about doing.

 

You're TALKING about action.

 

But in reality, you're not making any changes. You're not admitting to your wife that you went to IC, you're not putting any REAL kind of pressure on her to change her behaviors, you're not setting/communicating about/enforcing any kind of boundaries.

 

You're telling your wife you're not happy.

 

But you're not putting any actual reason in place for her to want to do anything about it.

 

And you're trying to convince yourself (and everyone here) that you're DOING the best that you can...when in truth, you're not taking any tangible actions at all.

 

What CHANGE has been made in your relationship with your wife since you first posted here?

 

If you don't want to push the issues...if you want to avoid conflict...that's fine. It's your choice. In that case, I'd suggest that you stop getting angry about what's going on, and accept it as the state of your marriage and the price of keeping your wife in your life. If that means that she sleeps with other men, etc...well, it's part of accepting HER as a whole then.

 

Either accept the situation, or actively work to change it.

 

I'm not seeing either of these things happening here...in my opinion.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but really this is what I see.

[sruben]

An EA is so hard because sometimes the people having them don't even know it's happening. This type of affair can end more relationships than PAs for that reason. They sneak in while no one is looking. First off proof of an emotional affair usually is locked away inside the cheater's head. Confronting with no proof will just send her into fight or flight. Instead, write down these questions and have her answer honestly.

• Does your friend seem to understand you better than your spouse?
  
• When confronted about an emotional affair do you respond “We’re just friends”?
  
• Do you find excuses to walk past or bump into this friend?
  
• Are you more aware of or wear nicer/sexier clothing because you know you will be seeing this friend?[/FONT]
  
• Do you talk to this friend more than your other friends?
  
• Have you ever lied about being out to lunch or with that friend to your spouse?
  
• Do you bash your spouse to this friend or feel uncomfortable talking about your spouse?
  
• Do you feel uncomfortable talking about this friend with your spouse?
  
• Do you think about the other person when you are with your spouse?
  
• Do you find reasons to be alone with this friend?
  
• Have you done or said anything with this friend you wouldn’t want your spouse to know about?
  
• Have you tried keeping your friendship with this person a secret?
  
• Have you lied to your other friends about going out with or meeting this friend?
  
• Have any of your friends warned you against your actions with this friend?
  
• Does your friend’s spouse know about you?
  
• Does this friend bash his/her spouse to you?
  
• Are you not interested in being intimate with your spouse, physically or emotionally?
  
• Do you cut into the time you could spend with your spouse to be with the friend?
  
• Do you not feel comfortable calling and talking to this friend in front of your spouse?
  

20. Have you found reasons to give this person gifts?

 

Then ask her to talk about her answers with you and let her know that you are giving her a "get out of jail free" card. She may see that she has had an Emotional Affair and confess. Even if she doesn't confess she will look at her relationship closer.

Try this book. It helped me.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003MZ0QQS/ref=cm_cr_mts_prod_img

 

Those are very good questions. And you're right, it's easy to see how someone having an EA may not really be aware that that's what's happening.

 

On occasion I started straying too close to the line on some of those myself. I recognized it and got the heck away from this person...who seemed VERY willing to listen to me if it looked like I wasn't happy in my marriage. How do they seem to know? Maybe I wear my heart on my sleeve too much, but I can see how it would have been easy to open up to someone who seems to care, one thing leading to another...I don't want to go there! But I can also see how much more temptation for that there is when you're not getting along with your spouse! You want to open up to SOMEbody. I praise my God for giving me many male friends that I can open up to!

 

And I love Kindle! I clicked on that link and downloaded it right away. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll get right on reading that (while I am in an obsessive mood -- I tend to read much faster when I am, for some reason).

[turnera]

Well, in complete honesty I think you're TALKING about doing.

 

You're TALKING about action.

 

But in reality, you're not making any changes. You're not admitting to your wife that you went to IC, you're not putting any REAL kind of pressure on her to change her behaviors, you're not setting/communicating about/enforcing any kind of boundaries.

 

You're telling your wife you're not happy.

 

But you're not putting any actual reason in place for her to want to do anything about it.

 

And you're trying to convince yourself (and everyone here) that you're DOING the best that you can...when in truth, you're not taking any tangible actions at all.

 

What CHANGE has been made in your relationship with your wife since you first posted here?

 

If you don't want to push the issues...if you want to avoid conflict...that's fine. It's your choice. In that case, I'd suggest that you stop getting angry about what's going on, and accept it as the state of your marriage and the price of keeping your wife in your life. If that means that she sleeps with other men, etc...well, it's part of accepting HER as a whole then.

 

Either accept the situation, or actively work to change it.

 

I'm not seeing either of these things happening here...in my opinion.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but really this is what I see.

EXACTLY what I wanted to say.

[sruben]

EXACTLY what I wanted to say.

 

Well, I'm glad JustaStonesThrow is a little more understanding. You and Owl seem to know so well what and when I should be doing certain things, perhaps you can tell me (since you seem to know) whether or not my wife actually had an EA and whether or not it became physical at any point (HJ or otherwise)?

 

I am not a rash man, and want to make certain that whatever action I take is appropriate to the circumstance, which I still have questions about. I am also not a coward in that I will do the right thing WHEN I know what that right thing is, regardless of the repercussions.

 

My wife and I are talking, but we do not do so every day. She is physically tired at the end of the day from her job, which is physically demanding (unlike her previous job which was more mentally demanding). The last time I talked about these topics with her was Sunday evening, when she was otherwise relaxed and in a more cooperative mood. It does me no good to bring up stressful topics when she's physically wiped out. She doesn't cooperate or open up, like she did Sunday.

 

So if things seem to you to be moving at a glacial pace, realize that I don't have some Plan B that I'm working toward (that is, I haven't found some girlfriend that I just can't wait to dump my wife for), so time isn't the issue. I'm not going to wait forever, because this stresses me out, but I'm not going to ge ballistic on her, either (unless and until such a response is the right thing to do at the time).

 

So back off on the pressure. There are plenty of guys (and gals) posting who have irrefutable proof of an affair. If you want to see them get divorced, go pressure them...

[turnera]

All I want is for you to be honest with your wife.

[Owl]

NP, Sruben. I wanted to add that divorce was never my recommendation for you...I've succesfully recovered my marriage, and hoped to see you do the same. But I'll post no more to your thread. I wish you well.

[Dexter Morgan]

All I want is for you to be honest with your wife.

 

ya, .......the whole time she isn't being honest with him.

[sruben]

All I want is for you to be honest with your wife.

 

Besides not having told her yet about IC, is there somewhere you think I've been dishonest with her?

 

I have been giving the issue of telling her about IC a lot of thought, lately. I knew even when I made the decision that I need to tell her, but I didn't want to tell her before I'd started because of her previous manipulating me out of it. Yes, I allowed myself to be manipulated. Maybe I'm not yet strong enough to prevent that.

 

I've been reading a book someone referred me to called "No More Mr. Nice Guy." I'm about 3/4 of the way through it. It's been very revealing to me, showing how I've become a "Nice Guy" (not the same as a nice guy) and addresses how I've exacerbated the problem I have with my wife by giving in to her fits of rage and doing things to try to make her happy ("How's that working out for ya?" -- After 8 years, I can say, not so well. Time to do something different).

 

I will be telling her about it, very soon. I don't care now if she does get mad about it. It's a done deal, and I've decided that she doesn't have to like it.

[sruben]

NP, Sruben. I wanted to add that divorce was never my recommendation for you...I've succesfully recovered my marriage, and hoped to see you do the same. But I'll post no more to your thread. I wish you well.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. I'm actually glad and somewhat encouraged to hear that you've recovered your marriage. I hope for the same success.

[sruben]

ya, .......the whole time she isn't being honest with him.

 

Yeah, that is how I feel, but I also see how responding to her in kind is not doing any good, either.

 

I think the suggestion earlier today that she may not even realize that what she had in June qualifies as an EA has some merit to it. I am looking forward to reading that book (have bought and downloaded it already, but wanted to make some more progress in NMMNG first).

[Dexter Morgan]

Yeah, that is how I feel, but I also see how responding to her in kind is not doing any good, either.

 

well you need to keep on the high road. However not letting her know you are unhappy isn't lying. Otherwise every little undisclosed feeling anyone has is lying.

 

but you let her know, you be truthful...something she is not. And if she is still lying after a determined amount of time, she needs to pack her bags.