How do I use the info I have to get my wife to own up to her A?

[FryFish]

Your wife wont admit it unless there is absolutely NO WAY for her to deny it anymore. The wives that do admit it are people who actual have a heart. Your wife sounds like a crazy ****.

Edited May 11, 2010 by FryFish
thought it would be bleeped.

[2sunny]

"How do I get her to own up to it?" one poster suggested that anyone with scruples (do you have any if you'll have an A?) would never admit it but tae it to her grave, and I've often heard that about women and affairs, but there are women on this forum who have had affairs, repented and confessed, so I don't believe that's a universal law.

 

One told me her H just asked. Another said she would if he would just ask, but she thinks he doesn't want to know.

 

but _I_ want to know. How can I get this across to my wife without causing her to shut down or start gaslighting? What are the words to use which do not come across accusatorily or threateningly?

 

she knows the power is in her truth - as long as she keeps the truth from you - she holds the power. she doesn't intend to have you know the truth - she likes having the power over you.

 

IF you want the truth - YOU are going to have to go digging... dig into EVERY little aspect of her life. cell phone, key logger, money spent by providing what is withdrawn and receipts for money spent, someone trailing her every move. etc.

 

you would need to show this type of woman that you uncovered what the truth is with EVIDENCE that proves what she's up to. once the proof is in front of her - she MAY still deny... some do this... it's shocking how many still cannot tell the truth even when it's staring them in the face.

[Darth Vader]

I agree, and I wonder if that's why when I got into her lockbox once (she doesn't know I have a key), she had some papers in there. This was reallly strange to me, but I noticed that she had a copy of our marriage license right next to some paperwork describing the laws of our state pertaining to child custody. To say that it made me feel like her bags were already packed would be an understatement.

 

I'm not the sucker I was last summer, I can tell you that! Yeah, even the MC told me not to put too much emphasis on her crying. It made me feel like a real heel for having believed all that about her, but I suppose that's what it was designed to do...

 

 

Forget strange, that's Bizarre! Why in the world would anyone need to have a copy of state child custody laws in a lockbox? How long ago was that? I'd say she's packed and ready to go just on that info!

 

In any case, if it were me, i'd cancel the credit cards now! Except for one, which you will have locked up(maybe in your own lockbox?) My reasoning for this is, when you turn of the money spigot, she's going straight for the plastic! She'll rack that card up so fast....... Well, I'm sure you get it!

 

So she said they both cheated, and lied about that? Red Flag, or another nail!

 

Before we met, she was toeing the line "All men are *****! I'm just going to raise my girls by myself!" She met me a couple months later, we dated, got engaged, history. When we fought last summer, then-6-yr-old said to me "what if mommy leaves us and marries someone else?", wife screamed at the top of her lungs at both of us, "I am NEVER getting married AGAIN!!!!" Do I believe that? What do you think?

 

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that was the reason she's been married/Divorced so many times!

 

The PI I spoke to last summer said something similar. But we're past tax time this year, wouldn't she have had to report any interest income from that (assuming she did so)? Or could she have it in some other form that doesn't disburse taxable interest? What should I be looking for?

 

If she made investments, maybe an IRA that's tax deferable. A 401k can be tax deferable if the monies are reinvested, but she can't touch the money until a certain age, same with the IRA. If she did, big tax penalty!

Savings Bonds are another investment. HMMMM.................. I have to wonder what she has in that Lockbox now, if she doesn't have another, or even more than that. BIG HINT!!!!!

 

BTW, she didn't spend all $24K on herself, I know what happened to a few thousand of it. At $120/5wk for haircuts, that's $1248/yr or $4992, and there was $3500 toward tuition for private school for the girls, but the rest appears to be nickel-dimey stuff (including lots of unaccounted-for cash of $40-$120/week for 4 years -- this could have been saved or spent on hotels, secret phones, gifts, I'll grant you. Oddly enough, "gifts for people" was one of the things she gave as examples of what she does with cash, but I don't see random gifts, only at birthday/father's day type events).

 

Gifts? That's what affair partners do, give gifts. Has she received any gifts lately? Strange you don't see many gifts............

[Darth Vader]

"How do I get her to own up to it?" one poster suggested that anyone with scruples (do you have any if you'll have an A?) would never admit it but tae it to her grave, and I've often heard that about women and affairs, but there are women on this forum who have had affairs, repented and confessed, so I don't believe that's a universal law.

 

One told me her H just asked. Another said she would if he would just ask, but she thinks he doesn't want to know.

 

but _I_ want to know. How can I get this across to my wife without causing her to shut down or start gaslighting? What are the words to use which do not come across accusatorily or threateningly?

 

In her case, you don't! But as the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words! No offense, but your wife's weird!

 

I have to agree with another poster, this is the type of woman that'll NEVER confess, but, she looks like a Manipulative Liar! Why? To get what she wants! You can't win with her, all you can do now is cut your losses! Kick her to the curb, that's all I have. I know you don't want to hear that, but hey, I've heard enough already. You can make a Soap Opera about this woman just from what you've written here.

[Darth Vader]

she knows the power is in her truth - as long as she keeps the truth from you - she holds the power. she doesn't intend to have you know the truth - she likes having the power over you.

 

IF you want the truth - YOU are going to have to go digging... dig into EVERY little aspect of her life. cell phone, key logger, money spent by providing what is withdrawn and receipts for money spent, someone trailing her every move. etc.

 

you would need to show this type of woman that you uncovered what the truth is with EVIDENCE that proves what she's up to. once the proof is in front of her - she MAY still deny... some do this... it's shocking how many still cannot tell the truth even when it's staring them in the face.

 

 

In that case, all of that Digging is a waste of time. If this woman has No heart, she's been gone when you first met her!(if that makes sense)

[sruben]

Okay, I did more snooping. Didn't find anything indicative of any past or present affair, but I did find something that indicated that H#2 may have lived with her prior to their being married. Something I did not know, and would not have thought to ask (we are Christian and supposedly don't believe in that sort of thing, so this was a surprise). Saw she has a few 2 or 3-digit savings bonds laying around, most in her first daughter's name (but the 3-digit one in hers), so she probably wouldn't starve the first couple of days if she left me. But I looked again, I did see plainly in one of her lockboxes (the harder to get to), she had our marriage license filed away with advice on child custody laws and other things helpful in a divorce. I can't help but think her bags are packed...not necessarily meaning she's planning to leave, but is ready on a moment's notice if she should decide to.

 

But here's a question, and is what triggered me into the mode to do all that snooping: I am very familiar with her dress habits. This morning she did something really strange, and I'd like some women's opinions on this.

 

Normally, her bra is the last thing she takes off at night and the first thing she puts on when getting dressed, then panties, pants and finally shirt. This morning she kept her (unsexy) nightgown on, put her panties on under that (I was not in the room at the time, but happened to arrive just after), then she put her pants on "beach-towel-change" like, such that I could not even see her panties at any point in time. Then she took off the nightgown and resumed dressing.

 

Is she trying to hide what she's wearing for panties? Or could there be some other (more innocent) reason for doing that?

 

Really strange for her...

[Chrome Barracuda]

Dude, are you blind or just not understanding!!!

 

She's having an affair and planning her exit, why areyou still questioning the small details which has no revelance!???

 

She will NEVER admit to anything if you dont have stone cold truth! this woman is gonna drive you insane. who cares of what she does when taking off her clothes? WTF does that have to do with her overall behavior?

 

Dude SEE A DAMN LAWYER AND KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!

 

also there's a thing where you see where your finances are going. you need that done if she's hiding money and stealing it i suggest you divorce! ASAP!

[monkeywithagun]

okay,. so althought to most people all signs point to cheating,. I wouldn't be so sure. My x husband was extremely jealous and every time he would acuse me of cheating I would freak the **** out and start crying so that he could leave me alone because he was driving me crazy,. I also started a separate bank account,. not because I was cheating,. but because I was tired of him and was planning to leave him.

So maybe she isnt cheating,. maybe she is just not happy.

[sruben]

Dude, are you blind or just not understanding!!!

 

She's having an affair and planning her exit, why areyou still questioning the small details which has no revelance!???

 

She will NEVER admit to anything if you dont have stone cold truth! this woman is gonna drive you insane. who cares of what she does when taking off her clothes? WTF does that have to do with her overall behavior?

 

Dude SEE A DAMN LAWYER AND KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!

 

also there's a thing where you see where your finances are going. you need that done if she's hiding money and stealing it i suggest you divorce! ASAP!

 

Chrome,

 

It's obvious what you think about the situation.

 

Kindly refrain from shutting down communication on my thread. Thank you.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Chrome,

 

It's obvious what you think about the situation.

 

Kindly refrain from shutting down communication on my thread. Thank you.

 

wtf are you talking about???

 

Refrain from shutting down communication? WTf are you saying, are you saying to please stop quoting on your story, because how could I as a man shut down communications from others. be clear on what you say!

 

Bottom line if you want me to stop being on your page say so. but let's also be clear, your in denial. I see it now. When she leaves and takes it all. dont say we didnt warn you.

[sruben]

okay,. so althought to most people all signs point to cheating,. I wouldn't be so sure. My x husband was extremely jealous and every time he would acuse me of cheating I would freak the **** out and start crying so that he could leave me alone because he was driving me crazy,. I also started a separate bank account,. not because I was cheating,. but because I was tired of him and was planning to leave him.

So maybe she isnt cheating,. maybe she is just not happy.

 

Thanks for the input, it's nice to see another POV.

 

I don't think shes ever happy. In her life, everything is about blame, and who's blaming her, or how it can be worked out such that they are blaming her. This started long before I was in the picture.

 

I saw something today where she told H#2 that their first marriage was a rebound for both of them. I don't think I had a clar==ear picture of the timeline before now, but she D him Aug '01 (the 2nd time) and we met I think Oct '01 timeframe. I spent several hours talking to her on New Year's Eve and then asked her out for the following Sunday (group lunch). I'm wondering if maybe her marriage to me was yet another rebound? I was just thinking the other day about how little we really have in common. Certainly not musical tastes, there's some overlap in food tastes, we're both Christian but her BG is more SBC and mine is more charismatic.

 

BTW, unlike in your sitch, I am not always accusing her. Although I never got answers to the questions I asked last year (just gaslighting), I've spent several months not thinking about it...until this separate finances thing triggered me back to just after the big fight we had last summer. I don't think I've elaborated on that, so I'll give a reader's digest account here:

 

As of last summer, here was the sitch: We'd been married 7 years, have one kid together and she had two from H#1, and up until the end of the 4th year I thought we were all nice and happy. Then she told me once when I initiated SF that she didn't want sex, didn't even like it, in fact it usually hurt. She said then that she felt like she just ended another marriage by telling me that. We argued many times over the next three years about that topic, what to do about it, she didn't want to see any more Dr's, said when H#2 made her see them, they all said nothing was wrong with her. So, no resolution ever to that argument, and other arguments started ending the same way. The previous summer, she'd even gotten to where she wouldn't change clothes in front of me for fear I might get turned on and ask for sex. That summer, she was also pretty mean to me 3/4 weeks per month all summer. She says she only feels the desire for sex once per month, and that's when she'd get nice. Next day, back to hostilities.

 

Last summer, I noticed she seemed really happy to go to work, especially in June. Got nice new clothes, seemed to have a "glow" about her. I thought, good, she's finally getting comfortable in that job. She'd always said she didn't like it, felt out of her depth for two years. But she had a victory in a 20-month project that ended abour Apr 1, so I figured that was the change. However, the last week of June, I noticed some strange behavior regarding her showering. That Wed she actually went straight to the bathroom in her work clothes and took a shower, even before dinner. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that Sat I found something in the dryer that looked to me like a lingerie teddy (black sheer and lacy). She later told me that she wore that as part of an ensemble and showed me. I do believe her now, but that day, seeing that and imagining her presenting herself to another man...I kind of lost my sanity at that point, started doing all this research on affairs and signs, etc. I even at that time recalled the strange shower time and something she'd said around the first week of June -- that she "might not be wearing her wedding ring around the house". My brain is wired to recognize patterns, and three was enough to trigger me.

 

One sign I read about was unexplained spending. I had never seen her bank statements, and she'd been wanting me for two years to come up with a budget to determine if we could afford for her to not work. Mon night was the night she came home after work and appeared to be in mourning, very upset, "had a really bad day, don't want to talk about it", etc, so I didn't say anything that day, but Tue night I asked if I could see those bank statements to complete the budget. At first her reaction was defensive. The we fought about it and she was screaming at me at the top of her lungs, and calling me a "control freak". It was late and eventually we went to bed not having resolved anything.

 

The next day she gave me a BS list of how she typically spends her money in that account. I knew she was not being truthful about some of it and called her on it. I told her I'd seen the statements, and she flew off the handle. Said the conversation was over because I'd done so without her permission (my name is on the account, as hers is on mine), she grabbed her purse, stormed out of the house, and didn't return for 1/2 hour (walked, didn't take the car). When she returned, she took her phone and purse into the bathroom with her and showered, kept her purse and phone by her bed or hidden the next several days. By Sat, she stopped hiding it. BTW, Thu night she did not come home for supper, sent me an email that she'd asked H#1 to keep the girls one more night, that DD6 and I were "on our own for supper". I didn't think she was coming home at all, but she did return at 8:30pm. She said she thought about staying in a hotel but didn't want to inflame my suspicions further. Note: I had not even hinted anything about an affair at this point. So, it was already on her mind. Not only that, she documented everywhere she wented that night with receipts and in a later argument gave me that as "proof" that she hadn't been with anyone that night. I never thought she was. The guy I thought she was with had gone back home out of state the previous Fri! Hence, her mourning, I figured.

 

We had several opportunities to discuss what had happened and she considtently denied ever having had an affair. She asked me several times if I'd had one. When I'd answer "no", she'd then say "neither did I!". She would do this even when I wouldn't bring it up!

 

The day after the big fight, I offered to let her manage her own finances if she really thought control was the issue. She then told me, "You're not a control freak, I am, no, I don't want to change anything, you've always done a good job managing the finances unlike my previous H's" etc...

 

So then, THAT's why now all of a sudden her wanting sep finances has me kind of freaked out -- makes me feel like small steps toward the door. If that's what she wants, I'd rather she just go charging through it and be done with it. Last summer I couldn't imagine my life without her. I still don't want to, but I'm not afraid any more...and not willing to be walking all over like a rug, either. I di tell her that at one point last fall. Her response? "What did I do NOW??!?" I didn't accuse her of anything, I just told her that in response to something she said. I felt like I needed to say it...

 

And for those of you still awake (I realize I rambled quite a bit here)...thanks for reading. Now you know a little more about where I'm coming from. I still don't know for certain that she had an EA (or PA), but I can't ge tthe facts out of my head. I think I need to see an IC. I was talking to my pastor yesterday at lunch about it and he recommended one he knows who is a Dr of Psych. as well as a Biblical counselor who himself has had to deal with a cheating wife. After 8 years of patiently waiting for her to get right, he finally divorced her. He is now happily remarried, but has definitely walked the walk...

[sruben]

wtf are you talking about???

 

Refrain from shutting down communication? WTf are you saying, are you saying to please stop quoting on your story, because how could I as a man shut down communications from others. be clear on what you say!

 

Bottom line if you want me to stop being on your page say so. but let's also be clear, your in denial. I see it now. When she leaves and takes it all. dont say we didnt warn you.

 

What I'm saying is that it is clear to me that you have a strong personality, and that your constant repeating the same thing may have the effect of causing others to think, "Well he sure told him! I don't need to say anything" when what I'm interested in is a variety of points of view.

 

I'm not in denial. I've never said my wife didn't have an affair. In fact, I strongly suspect that she did.

 

You're 100% convinced of it and have plainly said you would divorce her at this point. I'm guessing that's exactly what you did in your own situation. That's fine.

 

A couple of other posters, women at that, have expressed reservations with that conclusion in my case, and I am interested in hearing about that and why -- before I make a drastic decision to divorce my wife because of something I'm not 100% convinced happened or might be happening. If I get my "smoking gun", the show's over, but I'm not there yet.

 

Clear enough? Thank you.

[Chrome Barracuda]

....fair enough

 

I'm 100% convinced because the signs are evident. The smoking gun exists, you just havent found it. but you will. be patient.

[Darth Vader]

Thanks for the input, it's nice to see another POV.

 

I don't think shes ever happy. In her life, everything is about blame, and who's blaming her, or how it can be worked out such that they are blaming her. This started long before I was in the picture.

 

I saw something today where she told H#2 that their first marriage was a rebound for both of them. I don't think I had a clar==ear picture of the timeline before now, but she D him Aug '01 (the 2nd time) and we met I think Oct '01 timeframe. I spent several hours talking to her on New Year's Eve and then asked her out for the following Sunday (group lunch). I'm wondering if maybe her marriage to me was yet another rebound? I was just thinking the other day about how little we really have in common. Certainly not musical tastes, there's some overlap in food tastes, we're both Christian but her BG is more SBC and mine is more charismatic.

 

BTW, unlike in your sitch, I am not always accusing her. Although I never got answers to the questions I asked last year (just gaslighting), I've spent several months not thinking about it...until this separate finances thing triggered me back to just after the big fight we had last summer. I don't think I've elaborated on that, so I'll give a reader's digest account here:

 

As of last summer, here was the sitch: We'd been married 7 years, have one kid together and she had two from H#1, and up until the end of the 4th year I thought we were all nice and happy. Then she told me once when I initiated SF that she didn't want sex, didn't even like it, in fact it usually hurt. She said then that she felt like she just ended another marriage by telling me that. We argued many times over the next three years about that topic, what to do about it, she didn't want to see any more Dr's, said when H#2 made her see them, they all said nothing was wrong with her. So, no resolution ever to that argument, and other arguments started ending the same way. The previous summer, she'd even gotten to where she wouldn't change clothes in front of me for fear I might get turned on and ask for sex. That summer, she was also pretty mean to me 3/4 weeks per month all summer. She says she only feels the desire for sex once per month, and that's when she'd get nice. Next day, back to hostilities.

 

Last summer, I noticed she seemed really happy to go to work, especially in June. Got nice new clothes, seemed to have a "glow" about her. I thought, good, she's finally getting comfortable in that job. She'd always said she didn't like it, felt out of her depth for two years. But she had a victory in a 20-month project that ended abour Apr 1, so I figured that was the change. However, the last week of June, I noticed some strange behavior regarding her showering. That Wed she actually went straight to the bathroom in her work clothes and took a shower, even before dinner. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that Sat I found something in the dryer that looked to me like a lingerie teddy (black sheer and lacy). She later told me that she wore that as part of an ensemble and showed me. I do believe her now, but that day, seeing that and imagining her presenting herself to another man...I kind of lost my sanity at that point, started doing all this research on affairs and signs, etc. I even at that time recalled the strange shower time and something she'd said around the first week of June -- that she "might not be wearing her wedding ring around the house". My brain is wired to recognize patterns, and three was enough to trigger me.

 

One sign I read about was unexplained spending. I had never seen her bank statements, and she'd been wanting me for two years to come up with a budget to determine if we could afford for her to not work. Mon night was the night she came home after work and appeared to be in mourning, very upset, "had a really bad day, don't want to talk about it", etc, so I didn't say anything that day, but Tue night I asked if I could see those bank statements to complete the budget. At first her reaction was defensive. The we fought about it and she was screaming at me at the top of her lungs, and calling me a "control freak". It was late and eventually we went to bed not having resolved anything.

 

The next day she gave me a BS list of how she typically spends her money in that account. I knew she was not being truthful about some of it and called her on it. I told her I'd seen the statements, and she flew off the handle. Said the conversation was over because I'd done so without her permission (my name is on the account, as hers is on mine), she grabbed her purse, stormed out of the house, and didn't return for 1/2 hour (walked, didn't take the car). When she returned, she took her phone and purse into the bathroom with her and showered, kept her purse and phone by her bed or hidden the next several days. By Sat, she stopped hiding it. BTW, Thu night she did not come home for supper, sent me an email that she'd asked H#1 to keep the girls one more night, that DD6 and I were "on our own for supper". I didn't think she was coming home at all, but she did return at 8:30pm. She said she thought about staying in a hotel but didn't want to inflame my suspicions further. Note: I had not even hinted anything about an affair at this point. So, it was already on her mind. Not only that, she documented everywhere she wented that night with receipts and in a later argument gave me that as "proof" that she hadn't been with anyone that night. I never thought she was. The guy I thought she was with had gone back home out of state the previous Fri! Hence, her mourning, I figured.

 

We had several opportunities to discuss what had happened and she considtently denied ever having had an affair. She asked me several times if I'd had one. When I'd answer "no", she'd then say "neither did I!". She would do this even when I wouldn't bring it up!

 

The day after the big fight, I offered to let her manage her own finances if she really thought control was the issue. She then told me, "You're not a control freak, I am, no, I don't want to change anything, you've always done a good job managing the finances unlike my previous H's" etc...

 

So then, THAT's why now all of a sudden her wanting sep finances has me kind of freaked out -- makes me feel like small steps toward the door. If that's what she wants, I'd rather she just go charging through it and be done with it. Last summer I couldn't imagine my life without her. I still don't want to, but I'm not afraid any more...and not willing to be walking all over like a rug, either. I di tell her that at one point last fall. Her response? "What did I do NOW??!?" I didn't accuse her of anything, I just told her that in response to something she said. I felt like I needed to say it...

 

And for those of you still awake (I realize I rambled quite a bit here)...thanks for reading. Now you know a little more about where I'm coming from. I still don't know for certain that she had an EA (or PA), but I can't ge tthe facts out of my head. I think I need to see an IC. I was talking to my pastor yesterday at lunch about it and he recommended one he knows who is a Dr of Psych. as well as a Biblical counselor who himself has had to deal with a cheating wife. After 8 years of patiently waiting for her to get right, he finally divorced her. He is now happily remarried, but has definitely walked the walk...

 

 

Go easy on Chrome, he's walked the walk, so he can talk the talk! He just doesn't want you to be sucked dry by this woman or for you to waste more years of your life!

 

Anyway, You said that your wife brought up not having an affair? That's a reversal tactic to shift suspision! I've heard of this before, it's closely related to reverse psychology, but, more evasive. Red Flag!

 

She asked you if you were having an affair? That's another reversal tactic, to throw you off guard, that's related to Blame Shifting!!!! Red Flag!

 

Another Lockbox? Uh Huh, see, I told you. Red Flag! Have you checked the other lockboxes? She has Savings Bonds? There's your investment thingy. Does it have a purchase date, maturity date? If they're recent, Red Flag!

 

Why was she sooo pissed about you looking at joint finance statements? If there's no affair going on or anything else, she has nothing to hide! Anger is an Admition to Guilt! Red Flag!

 

Different panties, such as, normally wearing bikini's then switching to Thongs, quite a drastic shift, especially if she'd never wear them for you! Red flag!

 

Forbidding of sex? Red Flag! It's written not to defraud each other......

 

Holds onto phone and purse like it's the thing keeping her alive and hiding them from you?! Red Flag!

 

She said: Might not wear wedding ring around house? Red Flag!

 

Doesn't want you to handle finances, then changes her mind and wants you to handle it? Red Flag!

 

She calls you a control freak, then says you're not? (backpeddling) Red Flag!

 

She's accusing you of accusing her? Red Flag!

 

Lies about past husbands, locations and/or rewrites history? Red Flag!

 

You realize that these are the symptoms of a spouse who IS HAVING AN AFFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the results are in!

 

YOUR WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe circumstancial, but, hey! It's what it looks like, to a T!

 

Anyone have anything else?

 

BTW, have you ever thought of contacting her Ex-husbands? Of course you can ask them to keep quite about you asking them some questions about your wife. I have a feeling there's a wealth of knowledge about your wife that they may possess, past behaviors and such. If I were you, I'd look there! But only if you really want to know, of course it does carry risk.

[jwi71]

Given all you wrote above - why in the he'll do you WANT to stay M to her? Forget

her A or not - it sounds like a match made in hell.

Seriously, I would be more concerned about getting out of the M rather than who is

getting in your W.

 

What redeeming values exist in this union now?

[DadofTwoGirls]

is there...you just refuse to believe it.

[2sunny]

stop rambling and start deciding to DO something about it. take action.

 

she is cheating. what do YOU plan to do about it? if it's nothing but complain - you don't need us at all...

[Just a stone's throw]

sruben - affair or no affair; smoking gun or no smoking gun; The thing you have absolute proof us is that you two have some very serious trust issues.

 

The finances, the sneaking, the quick tempers and shifting emotions, the once-per-month sex, the dressing rituals (really, hiding something or really more disturbed than you want to know), the fact that you don't even know everything about her previous two marriage circumstances.

 

There is so much to work on in IC if you really want this marriage to continue that you may not get to the whole "Affair/no affair" issue for awhile.

 

She's really going off the deep end and you need to rescue her now. If you still want to be married and it sounds like you do. I believe she needs some help.

 

JAST

[Darth Vader]

stop rambling and start deciding to DO something about it. take action.

 

she is cheating. what do YOU plan to do about it? if it's nothing but complain - you don't need us at all...

 

 

I hope he does something soon. I know he wants definate evidence, but hey, what kind is he looking for? The kind that when he gets home and walks into the house and hears AH! AH! AH! coming from the bedroom, he opens the bedroom door and she's on top of some OM and she screams and says, " Oh God no! I'm sooo sorry baby! I didn't want this to happen or I didn't mean for this to happen! YEAH! RIGHT!! Come on! This woman knows what she's doing. The signs are all over the place! So much so, no one has to ask for directions!

[Blindsidedagainalive]

That Wed she actually went straight to the bathroom in her work clothes and took a shower, even before dinner. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that Sat I found something in the dryer that looked to me like a lingerie teddy (black sheer and lacy).

 

This fact alone .....it is quite obvious what is going on. Forget about everything else.......YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS WAS PART OF AN OUTFIT? What about the shower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sruben]

sruben - affair or no affair; smoking gun or no smoking gun; The thing you have absolute proof us is that you two have some very serious trust issues.

 

The finances, the sneaking, the quick tempers and shifting emotions, the once-per-month sex, the dressing rituals (really, hiding something or really more disturbed than you want to know), the fact that you don't even know everything about her previous two marriage circumstances.

 

There is so much to work on in IC if you really want this marriage to continue that you may not get to the whole "Affair/no affair" issue for awhile.

 

She's really going off the deep end and you need to rescue her now. If you still want to be married and it sounds like you do. I believe she needs some help.

 

JAST

 

You know, it's ironic. On Tue I had lunch with my pastor, who recommended an IC for me because I was aware that I was obsessing on this again. On Wed, I still was, so I called and set up an appt with the guy, got the insurance info taken care of and all. She got Cc:'d on the appt, I got home from work that night and she wanted to know what I was going to see that guy about (she's concerned because he had a WW who messed around on him for 8 yrs before they finally divorced. He's a professional counselor, though, and I don't think he'd risk his practice or reputation by projecting his own experience onto a patient's situation. I mean, he's a licensed PhD Psych Dr, I should clarify that). In fact, she was more than concerned, she got downright livid!

 

I explained to her that I was having issues with the separate finances thing, and especially with her parting comment that it was "because it didn't exactly work out well last time". She absolutely denied ever having said that, she was almost speechless! She protested that she couldn't even comprehend what something like that would mean, let alone be able to say it and accused me of making it up. I know for a fact that I didn't make it up, nor hear it wrong, because it wasn't just a comment that came & went...it was the very phrase that triggered me back into suspicion mode!

 

During this fight, the trust issue came up, as well as my suspicions about the EA (PA?) last June. She continued to deny, deny, deny and I don't have anything but persistence on my side, but she also repeated her recurring phrase about "eventually" I will cheat on her because they all have.

 

I thought about what one poster here said. She said that if I were wrong, think about how bad her being falsely accused would make her feel. Yes, actually, I can relate because she's been falsely accusing me for at least the last 4 years (probably the whole marriage) that she "knows" that eventually I will cheat because all men do! I asked her if she believed that before we married, then why did she marry me? She had no answer for that. I can tell you, if I believed before we got married that eventually she was going to cheat on me, I would NOT have married her! I even think that if I'd followed my SIL's advice and waited two years, I would not have married her (but then, I wouldn't have DD7, whom I love so much and is the single greatest blessing in my life, so I can't say I regret it)!

 

She told me that she's done everything she can think of to gain my trust, including quitting her high-paying job (I thought it was because of the high stress and "toxic" environment?) so that she'd be COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on me (and that's also why, when I "made" her go back to work, she took the lower-paying job -- that there's NO WAY she could survive on her own at that salary). As I think about this, it appears to me that she's trying to meet my needs, but doing it in her own way. There's a book I was reading last year, tried to get her to read it with me, called His Needs, Her Needs, which addresses what happens when we try to meet our spouses needs...without finding out HOW we should be meeting them. The result is frustration and resentment, and I see plenty of that with her. So, am I screwing up by not appreciating her efforts through giving her unquestioning trust? Or is she gaslighting the hell out of me? I hate to say it, but after the fight, I felt more like the latter than the former.

 

My pastor was disappointed that I cancelled my appt with the IC because he thought the guy could give me some good insights. I was bummed, too, but my wife seems to be holding her trust of me hostage to drop it. He thought this was really strange, like maybe she's afraid I'll figure out the affair if I talk with someone professional about it? I am really thinking one of us is nuts...if it's me, I'm willing to do something about it...why does that threaten her?

[sruben]

I hope he does something soon. I know he wants definate evidence, but hey, what kind is he looking for? The kind that when he gets home and walks into the house and hears AH! AH! AH! coming from the bedroom, he opens the bedroom door and she's on top of some OM and she screams and says, " Oh God no! I'm sooo sorry baby! I didn't want this to happen or I didn't mean for this to happen! YEAH! RIGHT!! Come on! This woman knows what she's doing. The signs are all over the place! So much so, no one has to ask for directions!

 

Having evidence like that (and many guys get it) would make my decision so easy. I'd settle for a friend or acquaintance coming up and saying, "Dude, I saw your wife all over this other guy at lunch last week" or something like that.

 

Her teary denials make me feel, when I see them, like a jerk for suspecting anything, but when I get away from that situation...I realize my suspicions didn't occur in a vacuum. There is smoke there. I really want to know what's burning, and with whom. She reminds me that, since she doesn't even like sex, she definitely doesn't want somebody else. I know that A's for women are typically not about sex, but she doesn't seem to "get" that I know that -- it's about the emotional connection. The sex, if there is any, is usually to please the guy. She'll often tell me she doesn't want anybody else (sexually), but never really addresses any emotional component. I asked her point blank last summer if she'd ever met anyone with whom she'd even become fascinated with. She told me, looking me in the eye (while covering her mouth), "No, there's never been anyone I've even been fascinated with since we married." I'd like to believe that, but the body language of that statement and one other she made a few minutes before that calls it into question. Just like now she can't look me in the eye again when she replies that she loves me... :-(

[sruben]

That Wed she actually went straight to the bathroom in her work clothes and took a shower, even before dinner. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that Sat I found something in the dryer that looked to me like a lingerie teddy (black sheer and lacy).

 

This fact alone .....it is quite obvious what is going on. Forget about everything else.......YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS WAS PART OF AN OUTFIT? What about the shower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Urgh! Someone had to bring that up. Yes, it occurred to me at the time that it could still be lingerie, and how would a crafty woman sneak lingerie out the door? She wouldn't put it in her purse or leave it in her car in case hubby would find it and question her on it -- how better than to wear it as part of an ensemble, over an undershirt and under an outer shirt? However, I can tell you that she DID wear it as part of that ensemble "3 or 4 times" as she put it, one of which I carefully noted and journaled. Unfortunately, I was not journalling things that Wed she went straight to the shower -- it's entirely possible that it was the same day she wore that, but that was sign#2 that I noticed, but did not trigger until Sat when I saw the lingerie-like thing by itself. It was a piece by Xhiliration, who makes lingerie and other clothing sold at Target. There was a apparently matching Xhiliration boyshort in that same laundry load, and I assumed that it was matched to the top piece (and said so at the time, but she denied it and said she doesn't like boyshorts)...but I later discovered that the boyshort belonged to DD13! Don't know what she's doing with stuff like that, but one problem at a time...

 

Too bad I don't remember if the day she showered after work was the day she wore that. You're right, and I hadn't put 2&2 together yet on that one, and can't make that assumption now.

 

But another weird thing about that Sat...the whole reason I was even doing anything with that load was that I needed the dryer for a load of mine. And I usually just dump her stuff on the bed, but I was being nice and hanging up the more delicate looking things when I noticed that. I haven't seen that for a long time, now that I think about it. I wonder what happened to it? But I digress. The weird thing was that, when she got home from shopping, she usually deals with her new stuff first, then later puts up her laundry when she gets good and ready. That Sat, though, she didn't do that. She wasn't home 5 minutes and when I went back into the bedroom for something, I noticed that all that stuff had almost literally disappeared! Very quickly. Strange...

[Dexter Morgan]

So, to the other BH's here, I'd like to ask: What worked for you? How did you get your WW to confess?

 

If you have proof, then you don't need her to confess. All you need to know is that if she doesn't confess, she is lying, pretending she didn't do anything.

 

you don't need her to confess, you can just tell her to pack her bags.

 

But what did I do to get her to confess? told her that I have proof and am ready to ask her to leave the house if she doesn't confess.

 

like a fool I figured if she confessed that I might be able to stay in the marriage.....but in a little less than a month I filed for divorce anyway.

 

 

When I tried to confront her with only a couple of things I had at the time, we fought, she denied, she cried that I didn't love her because I didn't believe her (I now realize this was probably gaslighting), and ultimately insisted I let it go if I wanted things to get better.

 

yup...she wants to sweep it under the rug and feels she doesn't deserve to pay the consequences to her actions. And this type of person will continue to be unfaithful to you.

 

Have you considered divorce? you know you'll never be able to believe a word out of her lying mouth ever again.

 

 

But her language has always been like half-truths.

 

yup, my X told me half truths to cover up the whole lies.

 

 

We've been getting along better the last few months, and sometimes I think I should just let it go, but the when she told me that she wanted separate finances and is direct depositing her paychecks to her own separate account

 

Boom, thats it, you need to get rid of her. Seperate finances allows her to spend money on rendezvous with other men without you having direct access to the information.

 

get rid of her.

 

Any pointers on ways to approach this would be greatly appreaciated.

 

yes, approach her with a pink slip written up from your attorney.

 

you may think I'm saying that to be funny. I'm not. I'm dead serious.

[sruben]

Given all you wrote above - why in the he'll do you WANT to stay M to her? Forget

her A or not - it sounds like a match made in hell.

Seriously, I would be more concerned about getting out of the M rather than who is

getting in your W.

 

What redeeming values exist in this union now?

 

DD7, who seems all-too-aware of the fighting. :-( I've explained to her that it's not her fault when mommy & daddy fight, nothing she did or forgot to do. We just don't agree on everything, and that's okay (just like it's okay that she likes SpongeBob and I hate that show!). I reassured her that I don't want to divorce mommy, and that we're trying to work on things.

 

As for my wife, I don't know -- seems like all the good times we've had, including the last 6 months, are kind of out the window as far as she's concerned...because I don't trust her!

 

Oddly enough, on the separate finances thing -- I told her how I felt about it, but that it could still work out as long as I have some visibility. She insisted on "fixing it" the next day so that I was in control again and she didn't care, didn't want to have this argument ever again. Later, I'm sure she'll accuse me of controlling her and "making" her change it back, when I did no such thing. Actually, I was hoping it would teach her to spend no more than she makes. Now I'm going to have to give her some kind of documentation monthly to show her hwere her hard-earned dollars are going...and how they are (or aren't) covering her CC expenditures...if I want that to happen.