Dating someone who was the Long-term OW...

[OWoman]

No, but a man may think she will if he knows she's spread them for a MM.

 

Only if he's really dumb, or one of those really egocentric types who thinks any woman would go for him if given the chance. Most men I know IRL have the brain cells to be able to discern between a woman who is sexually attracted to someone else - and thus, not a prospect - and one who might be available to him. But then, I don't hang out with dumb or egocentric men, so perhaps we're discussing different kinds of men.

[OWoman]

One thing I am extremely curious. WHAT IF OWoman falls in love with a man, and that man happens to be your husband whom you love dearly, and has been the love your life, jennie-jennie, what are you going to do? You know she isn't going to wait or respect your boundaries, she will get what she wants no matter what. You will defend OWoman and give your husband freely and willingly? Or jennie-jennie fall in love with a man whom White Flower loves to death and the man is WF's husband, will WF defend jennie-jennie and still glorify affairs? I mean in real life, can you trust your girlfriend respect that boundaries? If she puts her own happiness first, will she consider your friendship and your pain?

 

Nice try - but OWoman only gets to fall in love once in her life, and it's happened Jen's H is safe, as is WF's - at least, from me. Who knows which of the "it'll never happen to me" squad might find themselves in love with Jen's or WF's H, and wash up on the OW board (under a different name) renting their hair and proclaiming, "I never thought I would ever be the OW, but...." ?

 

Personally, when I hear successful stories of affairs, it is like seeing a thief robbed a bank, and in one night she became rich. hardly to rejoyce over an unjustice thing.

 

If you consider it unjust that a WS, who seduced a child (while M) and then abused him for decades finally got a bite of the karma bun, that's your choice. Other people have said she had it coming. IMO, the fact that we, the kids and the extended family are all ecstatically happy now certainly is reason to rejoice. In terms of your analogy, it's not like robbing a bank, it's like storming the house of the robber baron and liberating all the ill-gotten gains that had been shored up there over the years, releasing all the prisoners and returning happiness to the land. A whole bunch of sad, (and some damaged) people who get a shot at happiness - what's not to celebrate?

[jennie-jennie]

Well, here's one exBS who has never and will never think that, never mind say it. I believe without a doubt that we do exactly chose who we fall in love with. The opposite belief is just more justification for a solely selfish and destructive behaviour.

 

I sometimes wonder if those who believe you choose who you fall in love with, have ever really loved.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Wow you really HAVENT been reading the OW board have you...

 

It may be that way in the movies and some MMs may promise that in the coming attractions but if you read the stories on the boards many of them are more like he came to my house for an hour or so on his way to xyz... and he calls me and texts me whenever he can (be still my heart...)

 

not glamorous, not romantic not even a night out in some cases the weekends away are unusual and the trips are often business trips)

 

In fact most of the stories are heartbreaking and you wouldnt wish that sort of relationship on your worst enemy. Yes the posters are in love or think they are in love but the circumstances of the actual relationships leave a lot to be desired in at least 90% of the cases.

 

and admitted my narrow view of an affair.... But the point is why are they accepting crumbs from a mm???? Then I wonder how they would accept a "real" full relationship with someone who could give their all (i.e. single).... That was the point of my OP....

[jennie-jennie]

One thing I am extremely curious. WHAT IF OWoman falls in love with a man, and that man happens to be your husband whom you love dearly, and has been the love your life, jennie-jennie, what are you going to do? You know she isn't going to wait or respect your boundaries, she will get what she wants no matter what. You will defend OWoman and give your husband freely and willingly? Or jennie-jennie fall in love with a man whom White Flower loves to death and the man is WF's husband, will WF defend jennie-jennie and still glorify affairs? I mean in real life, can you trust your girlfriend respect that boundaries? If she puts her own happiness first, will she consider your friendship and your pain?

 

Well, here goes. This is the simple answer to your question:

And I will be totally honest here. If OWoman or jennie-jennie fell in love with my H or my H fell in love with one of them I would set him free. I will back that up until the day that I die.

 

But what if OWoman did what she has done so many times before and had a relationship with my husband without being in love with him? If she was my friend, I would find that disrespectful of her. If she was a stranger, then I would disagree with her moral code and disapprove of it as well, which doesn't mean I would not defend her and everyone's right to abide by their own moral codes.

[xxoo]

In terms of your analogy, it's not like robbing a bank, it's like storming the house of the robber baron and liberating all the ill-gotten gains that had been shored up there over the years, releasing all the prisoners and returning happiness to the land. A whole bunch of sad, (and some damaged) people who get a shot at happiness - what's not to celebrate?

 

OWoman, assuming your story is 100% true and unbiased, do you really believe it is typical?

 

I sometimes wonder if those who believe you choose who you fall in love with, have ever really loved.

 

Maybe a better truth: we choose who we do NOT fall in love with. I'm married, very happily, and in love. I could probably fall in love with a new person if I stopped nurturing this relationship and started nurturing another--but why would I do that?

 

On the other side, if I were single, I could probably fall in love with a committed man, if I responded to his advances and nurtured the relationship. But why would I do that?

 

If we wish a relationship to grow, we water it. No water, it dies.

[xxoo]

I sometimes wonder if those who believe you choose who you fall in love with, have ever really loved.

 

One more thing...

 

I sometimes wonder if those who believe that it is likely and common to fall in love with a new partner, have ever really loved.

[jennie-jennie]

Maybe a better truth: we choose who we do NOT fall in love with. I'm married, very happily, and in love. I could probably fall in love with a new person if I stopped nurturing this relationship and started nurturing another--but why would I do that?

 

On the other side, if I were single, I could probably fall in love with a committed man, if I responded to his advances and nurtured the relationship. But why would I do that?

 

If we wish a relationship to grow, we water it. No water, it dies.

 

One more thing...

 

I sometimes wonder if those who believe that it is likely and common to fall in love with a new partner, have ever really loved.

 

When I am in a relationship, it is like I have blinders on, I see no other men. When the relationship starts crumbling, I do. Look at my relationship history - 5 years, 25 years, 4 years and going - I am a very loyal woman.

 

Next time a MM approaches me, I will be cautious not to fall in love with him. Not because I consider it wrong to fall in love with any man and pursue it, but because I have learned that there exist men who although they truly love a woman will not leave a marriage. I did not realize that prior to my relationship with my MM.

[OWoman]

But what if OWoman did what she has done so many times before and had a relationship with my husband without being in love with him? If she was my friend, I would find that disrespectful of her.

 

That is very unlikely to happen. I have never had an A with a friend's SO. I would consider that incestuous.

 

If she was a stranger, then I would disagree with her moral code and disapprove of it as well, which doesn't mean I would not defend her and everyone's right to abide by their own moral codes.

 

Conversely, if Jen (or any other woman) hit on my H, the onus would be on him to accept the proposition or reject it. My issue would be with him and his response, not with her for having the good taste to fancy him

[jj33]

I find the premise of this thread fascinating. But for the "repentent" OWs, I dont think there are many who have been with a married man who would ever find themselves with someone who would look down on them for their choice.

 

Their values would just be too different. And noone with any real self respect would be in a relationship with someone who looked down on them and judged them harshly for their past relationship choices.

 

So boys I dont think you have to worry about being with someone who will "spread their legs" for any MM. We just wouldnt have anything in common.

[OWoman]

So boys I dont think you have to worry about being with someone who will "spread their legs" for any MM. We just wouldnt have anything in common.

 

You're right, JJ - I would never look at a man whose IQ wasn't three figures long. Guys who think like that are quite safe from the likes of me!!

[turnstone]

I sometimes wonder if those who believe you choose who you fall in love with, have ever really loved.

 

Only if he's really dumb, or one of those really egocentric types who thinks any woman would go for him if given the chance. Most men I know IRL have the brain cells to be able to discern between a woman who is sexually attracted to someone else - and thus, not a prospect - and one who might be available to him. But then, I don't hang out with dumb or egocentric men, so perhaps we're discussing different kinds of men.

 

Well of course you believe that. If you didn't your lives would be a mockery of what you purport them to be.

 

Its very simple, falling in love is a kind of madness. The chemicals that are released when feeling 'in love' are similar to those that are found in the brain after taking cocaine, and much like sustained drug abuse, the feeling of falling in love is addictive.

 

In a normal, everyday, ordinary relationship, the highs of falling in love diminish and when the people in the relationship are emotionally healthy, those feelings are replaced by new, enduring ones.

 

An affair, by its very nature, keeps the feeling of falling in love alive. When you don't quite 'have' the other person (because they are married), it sustains the intensity of the initial period of the relationship, the bit where you 'fall in love'.

 

Its no wonder that the parties to the affair are completely blinded to what is actually going on and insist that it is 'true love' and only 'true love'. Those feelings are incredibly intense and its impossible to convince the affair partners that the emotions they are feeling are anything but superficial, toxic and unsustainable.

 

Lisa Nowak was a very intelligent, resourceful, independent woman who went crazy. She behaved totally out of her mind.

 

Lucy Dudko, another. Krisin Rossum, Heather Parker too. All examples of the madness the feeling of being in love can instigate.

 

Think of all the WS who, convinced at the time of the affair that they were madly in love, changed their minds 100% when reality in the form of their wife kicking them out, checked in.

 

Love is enduring, it acts with kindness and integrity, but it takes time to develop and is not an instant fix. Now that's not what most people want to hear, they want love to be irrational, overwhelming, all conquering because that's romantic and 'special'. But it ain't, its far more important that any of those things.

[OWoman]

An affair, by its very nature, keeps the feeling of falling in love alive. When you don't quite 'have' the other person (because they are married), it sustains the intensity of the initial period of the relationship, the bit where you 'fall in love'.

 

I very much "have" my H, and feel no differently about him since we've been M than I did during the A.

 

I've had several As. None of the others involved any of those chemicals you describe. It was only with my H, a long time into the A, that the "love stuff" happened, for both of us.

 

It is enduring, it does act with kindness and integrity, and it certainly did take time to develop. There was no "instant fix" for either of us. I have known him for seven years, but the "in love" bit took a few years to happen.

 

I didn't believe in love, before. I don't do infatuation, crushes or the like. For me, hard-nosed skeptic that I am, "love" was a convenient label to describe an array of symptoms from lust to co-dependency - before I actually experienced it. It took years of getting to know someone really intimately, plumbing their strengths and constraints, their values and their ideals, their dreams and their fears... as well as my own. The "love" had nothing to do with the context of the A, and everything to do with the match between us. The love compelled us to leave our lives as we knew them, and to forge a new way together. Our love is the first thing on our lips each morning, and the last thing on our lips each night. No madness, no "rush" - just love.

[turnstone]

I very much "have" my H, and feel no differently about him since we've been M than I did during the A.

Yes, and it would seem you employ a different tactic for keeping that feeling alive. The fact you feel.............. how did you put it? Cheated? If you don't have sex at least two? Three? Four? Times a day would certainly demonstrate this.

 

I've had several As. None of the others involved any of those chemicals you describe. It was only with my H, a long time into the A, that the "love stuff" happened, for both of us.

 

It is enduring, it does act with kindness and integrity, and it certainly did take time to develop. There was no "instant fix" for either of us. I have known him for seven years, but the "in love" bit took a few years to happen.

 

I didn't believe in love, before. I don't do infatuation, crushes or the like. For me, hard-nosed skeptic that I am, "love" was a convenient label to describe an array of symptoms from lust to co-dependency - before I actually experienced it. It took years of getting to know someone really intimately, plumbing their strengths and constraints, their values and their ideals, their dreams and their fears... as well as my own. The "love" had nothing to do with the context of the A, and everything to do with the match between us. The love compelled us to leave our lives as we knew them, and to forge a new way together. Our love is the first thing on our lips each morning, and the last thing on our lips each night. No madness, no "rush" - just love.

 

Again, the fact you have to have sex multiple times a day demonstrates that the 'crazy in love' is alive and kicking.

[xxoo]

Next time a MM approaches me, I will be cautious not to fall in love with him. Not because I consider it wrong to fall in love with any man and pursue it, but because I have learned that there exist men who although they truly love a woman will not leave a marriage. I did not realize that prior to my relationship with my MM.

 

Are you saying that, in the future, you would avoid a MM because you've learned it could deeply hurt you, but never because it could deeply hurt another woman?

 

If you acknowledge it is possible to avoid falling in love with a MM, how do you justify ever allowing the possibility, knowing it will cause another person (and children) pain?

[jennie-jennie]

Well of course you believe that. If you didn't your lives would be a mockery of what you purport them to be.

 

Its very simple, falling in love is a kind of madness. The chemicals that are released when feeling 'in love' are similar to those that are found in the brain after taking cocaine, and much like sustained drug abuse, the feeling of falling in love is addictive.

 

In a normal, everyday, ordinary relationship, the highs of falling in love diminish and when the people in the relationship are emotionally healthy, those feelings are replaced by new, enduring ones.

 

An affair, by its very nature, keeps the feeling of falling in love alive. When you don't quite 'have' the other person (because they are married), it sustains the intensity of the initial period of the relationship, the bit where you 'fall in love'.

 

Its no wonder that the parties to the affair are completely blinded to what is actually going on and insist that it is 'true love' and only 'true love'. Those feelings are incredibly intense and its impossible to convince the affair partners that the emotions they are feeling are anything but superficial, toxic and unsustainable.

 

Lisa Nowak was a very intelligent, resourceful, independent woman who went crazy. She behaved totally out of her mind.

 

Lucy Dudko, another. Krisin Rossum, Heather Parker too. All examples of the madness the feeling of being in love can instigate.

 

Think of all the WS who, convinced at the time of the affair that they were madly in love, changed their minds 100% when reality in the form of their wife kicking them out, checked in.

 

Love is enduring, it acts with kindness and integrity, but it takes time to develop and is not an instant fix. Now that's not what most people want to hear, they want love to be irrational, overwhelming, all conquering because that's romantic and 'special'. But it ain't, its far more important that any of those things.

 

Sh*t. Just my luck. Why did my initial hormonal rush so clearly go away after 1-2 years?

[jennie-jennie]

Yes, and it would seem you employ a different tactic for keeping that feeling alive. The fact you feel.............. how did you put it? Cheated? If you don't have sex at least two? Three? Four? Times a day would certainly demonstrate this.

 

Again, the fact you have to have sex multiple times a day demonstrates that the 'crazy in love' is alive and kicking.

 

From research I have read, the "crazy in love" feeling can still be alive and kicking after 25 years in an ordinary relationship. They have seen this on camera images of the brain, activity in these areas after 25 years. Some individuals are that lucky.

[jennie-jennie]

Are you saying that, in the future, you would avoid a MM because you've learned it could deeply hurt you, but never because it could deeply hurt another woman?

 

That is exactly what I am saying.

If you acknowledge it is possible to avoid falling in love with a MM, how do you justify ever allowing the possibility, knowing it will cause another person (and children) pain?

 

My happiness is more important to me than a woman's I have never met.

[xxoo]

My happiness is more important to me than a woman's I have never met.

 

That gets to the crux of the moral issue, then. Causing other people unneeded pain to fulfill my own happiness goes against my morals.

 

I'm not a martyr to others' happiness, but have no need to be--because there is plenty of opportunity to find love without choosing a man already committed to another.

[jennie-jennie]

That gets to the crux of the moral issue, then. Causing other people unneeded pain to fulfill my own happiness goes against my morals.

 

I'm not a martyr to others' happiness, but have no need to be-- because there is plenty of opportunity to find love without choosing a man already committed to another.

 

That has not been my life experience. So I left it up to my MM to choose which one of us he loved. It took me 45 years to find someone as compatible to me as MM. I am/was not prepared to wait another 45.

 

In my eyes the BS' pain is not unneeded. I would never cause a person unneeded pain either.

Edited May 16, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[lovingagain]

Having someone completely, when they're not the person you'd far rather have, is "breadcrumbs" to me. (In fact, the more you have of them, the scrappier the crumbs, if they're not the one you REALLY want... More definitely is less, in that case!)

..........

I definitely think, in my A, that the BW had the crumbs, and I got the chocolate souffle....

 

I was thinking about this breadcrumbs business, mentioned often by BS about what the OW get. Well I was asking myself, although I would want MM every minute of the day, i see more and more of what he actually gives to his W, after being with him for two years, I prefer my short blissful moments, when he is entirely with me mentally and physically, rather than 24/7 in the same room, but standing at the other side mentally and physically. I definitely would not be his W.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I was thinking about this breadcrumbs business, mentioned often by BS about what the OW get. Well I was asking myself, although I would want MM every minute of the day, i see more and more of what he actually gives to his W, after being with him for two years, I prefer my short blissful moments, when he is entirely with me mentally and physically, rather than 24/7 in the same room, but standing at the other side mentally and physically. I definitely would not be his W.

 

the response to the OP and what prompted it. At least lovingagain is honest about her affair.

[xxoo]

That has not been my life experience. So I left it up to my MM to choose which one of us he loved. It took me 45 years to find someone as compatible to me as MM. I am/was not prepared to wait another 45.

 

It seems you've been partnered most of your adult life. How many years were you actually single to date different people and meet a great match?

[jennie-jennie]

It seems you've been partnered most of your adult life. How many years were you actually single to date different people and meet a great match?

 

5 years.

 

(10 characters necessary)

[xxoo]

5 years.

 

(10 characters necessary)

 

That's hard to imagine if you were with your last partner 25 year, another 5 years, and were 45 when MM re-entered the picture.

 

But regardless, 5 years isn't exactly a lifetime looking to no avail.