Dating someone who was the Long-term OW...

[rewe4reel]

there was a bs who started a thread here attacking wf's thread who got upset when that thread got canned but not wf's one. that may have had something to do with it?

 

 

Wouldn't we be better off letting both threads remain in place and people can make their own judgments about the ideas being expressed?

 

The problem with this kind of "censorship" is that it forces people to be bland and non-controversial.

 

I understand deleting individual posts which are offensive, but once you start wholesale thread deletions, where does it stop?

[nadiaj2727]

Really? What you say about love here is like : when you FEEL the love, then you stay, when you don't FEEL the love, then you go.

 

But what I have heard from many successful loving old couples is that they decided to work on their marriage and themselves, and through that they gained more sweet and deep love rather than superficial ones.

 

so the love you talk about is really about "easy love", or glorify "easy love"

 

when couples meet issues, they have to face themselves, some of them choose to run. and it seems you encourage this kind of arrangement.

 

And you never said affair is wrong, or you feel remorse toward the wife. You never said you are responsible for the hurt the wife feel, so I guess on some degree you glorify affair and proud of it. The "love" you talk about really don't consider the world beyond yourself.

 

I completely agree with all of this Lovelybird! I used to think that love is a feeling, that it could die with time, I would worry about getting married because I thought, I don't know what the future will bring, what if I fall out of love with him, or he falls out of love with me? And I would justify my A by thinking, well, he fell out of love with his wife, or he never really loved her in the first place, and now he is in love with me, and that can't be helped.

 

What a simple view I had of people... like we just went around being slaves to our emotions and tripping in and out of love. Now I realize that if someone thinks like that I wouldn't want to be with them because love is not an emotion you can't control, it's a choice you make.

 

To some people this is so simple and I wish it had always been simple to me but all of a sudden awhile back I realized what you wrote here, that love is not just a feeling, it is an action, and it was like a huge awakening for me that really made me feel much happier about relationships. To me now love, in terms of a committed relationship, is actively putting another person's interests first and doing what I know is best for them, not what I feel is best for myself. I think that if people don't feel this way, they shouldn't get married. Or else it just won't work! I didn't used to understand that and I feel like I wasn't capable of truly loving someone else because I didn't love myself... I was looking for someone else to fulfill me, complete me, give me those butterflies. I readily admit I was one of the OWs the OP of this thread was talking about!

 

I'm not saying all OWs are like this but I certainly was. I thought that if the relationship wasn't dramatic and super passionate all the time, it was boring and something was lacking. The something that was lacking was ME, having love for myself and knowing how to really love someone else. I don't need a guy to wine and dine me when he's bored with his wife because I am happy with the life I have and I want a guy to share my life with me and only me and like someone else said I no longer accept breadcrumbs and I know that is not real love. It is more like euphoria, for me it was an addiction full of highs and lows, whereas real love is more like being content... it is steady and strong and it isn't the most exciting thing in the world but I really hope that if I get married there will be moments years down the road where I feel warm and fuzzy and say "THIS is what love is, I am so happy." I used to think there were no happily married-for-a-long-time faithful couples out there but then I made it a point to go and find some and they all say what you are talking about in this post Lovelybird... that love is not always easy and up, it is sometimes hard and down, but it is about always doing the right thing for the person you vowed to love forever. It makes me so happy now that I know this about love.

 

So anyway Lovelybird I completely agree with this post and I think all the posts I've read from you in this forum are really really wise. I admire you.

[White Flower]

LS deleted your ENTIRE thread?

 

LOL, how could that possibly make any sense.

 

Deleting an entire thread?

 

What subject matter is verboten, must be edited out of existence????

Love the German reference. (verboten=forbidden)

 

there was a bs who started a thread here attacking wf's thread who got upset when that thread got canned but not wf's one. that may have had something to do with it?

I think it may have.

 

Wouldn't we be better off letting both threads remain in place and people can make their own judgments about the ideas being expressed?

 

The problem with this kind of "censorship" is that it forces people to be bland and non-controversial.

 

I understand deleting individual posts which are offensive, but once you start wholesale thread deletions, where does it stop?

And people WERE making their own judgments which is fine. The BS in question claimed he was 'calling me out' on my behavior. Well excuse me, but didn't I call myself out in my own thread? I can see him now pointing his finger and blowing his whistle. Someone should find him a new avie.

Well, that's a shame. I was looking for an update, and it was gone...

 

Yes, but the thread over here seemed to be more of a personal attack, IMO. WF's thread attacked no one. But I understand that Tony doesn't have time to babysit. It was probably easier for him to kill two birds with one stone, I'm guessing. He didn't tell WF she was not to start a new thread after all, which I hope she will.

 

Yes, I struggle daily with being bland and non-controversial. I have some infractions to show for it.

Tony did suggest I start a new thread. Don't know if I'll bother though since I'm not sure what 'being careful with my words' means here. Everybody says I'm already one of the most sensitive posters here barring when I'm defending myself.

[White Flower]

What I said was:

 

What you are misguided about is that anyone is glorifying an affair! Did I post about one special day in my A? Yes, but I also posted that it was a rare treat for me to do so. Since somebody had my 27 page thread pulled it's not so easily proven here but you can go to Google and check the cache and see for yourself that I stated in my original post that it was a rare treat to share my joy at LS. I had a lot of joy in the A but I kept it to myself mostly.

 

And I will be totally honest here. If OWoman or jennie-jennie fell in love with my H or my H fell in love with one of them I would set him free. I will back that up until the day that I die.

 

If you went to college and told your guidance counselor that you weren't sure what to major in he/she would have told you to study what your natural born talent already seems to be. Your parents may want you to be a doctor or a lawyer but you might be the best artist in the world. Do you know the suicide rate in Japan? I haven't Googled it recently but I remember the suicide rate years ago among children was the highest in the world due to pressure to be something they are not. Well the same is for M. You can't make a M work if the love is not there. Don't make your H be a doctor if his heart isn't into it. Let him be an artist or whatever comes natural. Yeah, he made a mistake and M the wrong person but get over it, let him go. I did. And I still would. I stand by that. If you don't love me please go!

 

I won't glorify an A but I will glorify love, wherever it is.

So let's narrow it down to this:

In college one should study what their natural born talent already seems to be. (Keep in mind this is just an analogy.)

I won't glorify an A but I will glorify love, wherever it is.

I know what it is like to study something I'm not that in to and also what it is to study something that I enjoy. I happen to be much more successful at doing what I enjoy. If that simple analogy doesn't make sense to you then I just don't know what to tell you. Go argue with the college counselors if you like.

Really? What you say about love here is like : when you FEEL the love, then you stay, when you don't FEEL the love, then you go.

 

But what I have heard from many successful loving old couples is that they decided to work on their marriage and themselves, and through that they gained more sweet and deep love rather than superficial ones.

 

so the love you talk about is really about "easy love", or glorify "easy love"

 

when couples meet issues, they have to face themselves, some of them choose to run. and it seems you encourage this kind of arrangement.

 

And you never said affair is wrong, or you feel remorse toward the wife. You never said you are responsible for the hurt the wife feel, so I guess on some degree you glorify affair and proud of it. The "love" you talk about really don't consider the world beyond yourself.

I have had two major Rs in my life. I don't know what kind of life experience you have to back up your idealistic claims but I am ready to listen if you have the time to post. I was M for 25 years and certainly 'felt' the love the majority of that time even when I didn't 'feel' it in return. You work, you communicate, you try everything under the sun to make it work. When all measures have been exhausted, and I mean REALLY exhausted, then you face the rest of your life either miserably together or happily apart. BTDT and even wrote the book. D was better for us, which was a MUTUAL agreement so don't forget that. And just so I am not misunderstood, my exH fought the D longer than I did but he was always happy being miserable.

 

My R with MM (speaking of the past 5 years) had many of the attributes as my M, believe it or not, and we weathered it together as any couple would with communication, reading, etc. The major difference with my second R is that chemistry was stronger, a natural undeniable element that you just can't force, pray for, or conjure up; it just has to be there (sort of like the natural talent a student needs to be successful in college career choices). If it is there, the R will be passionate (not just sexually) and if it's not the R might be mediocre (not that that's wrong).

 

And now that my R with MM is on the brink of I Don't Know I find it difficult to fathom a future R with someone in which chemistry (natural born talent comparison) is not obvious. THAT is the kind of love I will glorify; one that has both the hard work, communication, and dilligence along WITH the chemistry and passion.

 

So please don't put words in my mouth about feeling love or me leaving just because I don't find love easy. If I left because it was easy I wouldn't have tried so hard for 25 years with a narcissist and 5 years with a SC. White Flower knows no easy.

 

What a simple view I had of people... like we just went around being slaves to our emotions and tripping in and out of love. Now I realize that if someone thinks like that I wouldn't want to be with them because love is not an emotion you can't control, it's a choice you make.

Nadia this is the one statement you made that I really respect. I agree with it wholeheartedly and I can't see why, just because I am/was an OW, that people would think that I think any differently.

[Tommy's Girl]

 

 

Nadia this is the one statement you made that I really respect. I agree with it wholeheartedly and I can't see why, just because I am/was an OW, that people would think that I think any differently.

 

 

The statement Nadia made applies to OWs because they are slaves to their emotions. Otherwise they wouldn't choose to sleep with another woman's man. That's why people would think differently.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Tommy's Girl

[OWoman]

The statement Nadia made applies to OWs because they are slaves to their emotions. Otherwise they wouldn't choose to sleep with another woman's man. That's why people would think differently.

 

what a non sequitur! It's amazing how the depth to someone's prejudice can lead so such complete error!

 

I've never been a slave to my emotions - my decisions to sleep with "another woman's man" (and none of my MM's saw themselves in that way, FTR - they saw themselves as very much their OWN men, not some possession of some woman!) were based ENTIRELY on rational thought processes. That structure of R was what suited me best at the time.

 

Oh - and the sex was great. But if you can't distinguish an orgasm from an emotion, you've got a problem.

[White Flower]

The statement Nadia made applies to OWs because they are slaves to their emotions. Otherwise they wouldn't choose to sleep with another woman's man. That's why people would think differently.

And remember that Nadia was once the OW. Interesting.

what a non sequitur! It's amazing how the depth to someone's prejudice can lead to such complete error!

 

I've never been a slave to my emotions - my decisions to sleep with "another woman's man" (and none of my MM's saw themselves in that way, FTR - they saw themselves as very much their OWN men, not some possession of some woman!) were based ENTIRELY on rational thought processes. That structure of R was what suited me best at the time.

 

Oh - and the sex was great. But if you can't distinguish an orgasm from an emotion, you've got a problem.

Besides which it takes too much too juggle so many Rs to take up with a woman who is a slave to her emotions. One definitely needs to be on one's toes in order to multi-task like that. Methinks it is the W who is the slave to her emotions, or anyone who can't let go when they see the writing on the wall.

 

People think what they want to think. That is why this thread was started. The OP can't possibly believe that a man could be interested in a woman who was once a long-term AP but what he doesn't know is that he is in a small group of believers.

[Lovelybird]

I completely agree with all of this Lovelybird! I used to think that love is a feeling, that it could die with time, I would worry about getting married because I thought, I don't know what the future will bring, what if I fall out of love with him, or he falls out of love with me? And I would justify my A by thinking, well, he fell out of love with his wife, or he never really loved her in the first place, and now he is in love with me, and that can't be helped.

 

What a simple view I had of people... like we just went around being slaves to our emotions and tripping in and out of love. Now I realize that if someone thinks like that I wouldn't want to be with them because love is not an emotion you can't control, it's a choice you make.

 

To some people this is so simple and I wish it had always been simple to me but all of a sudden awhile back I realized what you wrote here, that love is not just a feeling, it is an action, and it was like a huge awakening for me that really made me feel much happier about relationships. To me now love, in terms of a committed relationship, is actively putting another person's interests first and doing what I know is best for them, not what I feel is best for myself. I think that if people don't feel this way, they shouldn't get married. Or else it just won't work! I didn't used to understand that and I feel like I wasn't capable of truly loving someone else because I didn't love myself... I was looking for someone else to fulfill me, complete me, give me those butterflies. I readily admit I was one of the OWs the OP of this thread was talking about!

 

I'm not saying all OWs are like this but I certainly was. I thought that if the relationship wasn't dramatic and super passionate all the time, it was boring and something was lacking. The something that was lacking was ME, having love for myself and knowing how to really love someone else. I don't need a guy to wine and dine me when he's bored with his wife because I am happy with the life I have and I want a guy to share my life with me and only me and like someone else said I no longer accept breadcrumbs and I know that is not real love. It is more like euphoria, for me it was an addiction full of highs and lows, whereas real love is more like being content... it is steady and strong and it isn't the most exciting thing in the world but I really hope that if I get married there will be moments years down the road where I feel warm and fuzzy and say "THIS is what love is, I am so happy." I used to think there were no happily married-for-a-long-time faithful couples out there but then I made it a point to go and find some and they all say what you are talking about in this post Lovelybird... that love is not always easy and up, it is sometimes hard and down, but it is about always doing the right thing for the person you vowed to love forever. It makes me so happy now that I know this about love.

 

So anyway Lovelybird I completely agree with this post and I think all the posts I've read from you in this forum are really really wise. I admire you.

Hi, nadiaj, thank you You have a big graceful heart and a brave soul, I think somewhere I said something probably bitter toward OW, why am I bitter toward them? I am not a ex OW, nor a ex wife, I guess I am bitter about human weaknesses in general. I try to gain understanding, why people do what they do, or try to understand myself. I was addicted to toxic man who wasn't good for me, he wasn't married though. I was angry at myself why I was led like a slave, but not anymore

 

I am happy for you that you are happy about finding new ways to love. I understand that is a great feeling. Same as you I had hopeless moments believing love is too difficult for me to understand or control, believed love can go and come swiftly, like wind. But later I found out it isn't true. Real love is an ability that can be grown, the more real love one has in herself, the more she can attract the same kind of man who possess the similar level of love and maturity into her life. Now although I still believe the rosy and unstoppable passion of love, I mainly think love is designed to challenge us, a mission that find the missing part of our puzzle board. It is the same with the difficulties in love. Every fight, every struggle with our SO, is a challenge that we face, a chance to grow ourselves instead of changing our partner, so it is not easy. When I see those old happy-in-love old couples, they don't necessarily have more exciting living than others on the surface, but surely they have LARGE ability to love, they have the ability to see things differently than the unhappy couples, they have the ability to be deeper in love, with same person. and this is a mystery, a gift from God.

 

Anyway, I think everything in life is about spiritual growth, or grow toward God, and this is much more exciting and fulfilling than having dramas with a toxic man.

[Lovelybird]

The major difference with my second R is that chemistry was stronger, a natural undeniable element that you just can't force, pray for, or conjure up; it just has to be there (sort of like the natural talent a student needs to be successful in college career choices). If it is there, the R will be passionate (not just sexually) and if it's not the R might be mediocre (not that that's wrong).

About this passion, I may not have as much experience as you have, but according to what I have, I found the passion and chemistry can grow through intimate communication, or die due to lack of. Of course we also must have similar value system and character level.

 

And now that my R with MM is on the brink of I Don't Know I find it difficult to fathom a future R with someone in which chemistry (natural born talent comparison) is not obvious. THAT is the kind of love I will glorify; one that has both the hard work, communication, and dilligence along WITH the chemistry and passion.

Yes, I agree with the bold part. But if this person is married, you shouldn't even start it, not mentioning work on it.

[OWoman]

Methinks it is the W who is the slave to her emotions, or anyone who can't let go when they see the writing on the wall.

 

...which could be anyone in the triangle. Sometimes it's the OW who clings - there are threads on the OW board illustrating that. Sometimes it's the MM who clings - not letting the OW get on with her life, once she's dumped him (and there are other threads that illustrate that). And sometimes the WS clings to the xBW who dumps him - and again, at least one thread here illustrates that. Clinging, or being a slave to one's emotions, is not limited to any position in the triangle, nor is any position structurally compelled to cling or be a slave to one's emotions.

 

Massive generalisations about a hugely disparate group of people who have nothing in common but one coincidence of relationship type and position are bound to fail - unless, of course, someone is of the persuasion that prejudice matters more than observed reality.

[crazycatlady]

...which could be anyone in the triangle. Sometimes it's the OW who clings - there are threads on the OW board illustrating that. Sometimes it's the MM who clings - not letting the OW get on with her life, once she's dumped him (and there are other threads that illustrate that). And sometimes the WS clings to the xBW who dumps him - and again, at least one thread here illustrates that. Clinging, or being a slave to one's emotions, is not limited to any position in the triangle, nor is any position structurally compelled to cling or be a slave to one's emotions.

 

Massive generalisations about a hugely disparate group of people who have nothing in common but one coincidence of relationship type and position are bound to fail - unless, of course, someone is of the persuasion that prejudice matters more than observed reality.

 

This along with what WF said as well in your quote (about anyone not seeing the writing ont he wall).

 

This was my biggest worry when I found out about my H's affair. I did not want to cling when cling was not wanted. I was afraid I would cling because I did feel very strongly for him. I didn't want him to feel sorry for me and stay, at the same time I didn't want him to think "oh she doesn't care" and go. Its also one of the reasons I sat on the knowledge for as long as I did and why I really wanted him to be the one to come out and tell me. I wanted to be able to see how he brought it up, what he said and what he didn't say.

 

CCL

[White Flower]

When I see those old happy-in-love old couples, they don't necessarily have more exciting living than others on the surface, but surely they have LARGE ability to love, they have the ability to see things differently than the unhappy couples, they have the ability to be deeper in love, with same person. and this is a mystery, a gift from God.

Lovelybird, you need to realize that when you see an old happy-in-love couple it is not always what you see. They may appear happy and even be happy NOW but that doesn't mean the man wasn't a SC his whole life or that she didn't cheat on him once during their 50 year M. We just see what we want to see but if we asked, and they actually told us, these special people just might admit to overcoming some pretty difficult times including toxic APs or one the the MP being toxic themselves. We just can't assume it was rosy and A-free during their longtern M.

About this passion, I may not have as much experience as you have, but according to what I have, I found the passion and chemistry can grow through intimate communication, or die due to lack of. Of course we also must have similar value system and character level.

Be careful because you still have time to choose a life partner. If there is no chemistry and passion it cannot be created no matter how much intimate communication you try to convey. MM's IC just told him this week that chemistry is either there or it isn't and it can't be created. The close R he has with his W, and pay close attention to what I am saying because I certainly am, is very much like a brother/sister R. He simply cannot find passion for her no matter how he has tried over the years. If you really think you can obtain passion and chemistry through intimate communication you are sadly mistaken.

 

Conversely, if there is already passion and chemistry you CAN turn the R into a deeply intimate one, one between lovers that will never feel like a sibling R. Please be careful on your future choices in men no matter how you see me.

Yes, I agree with the bold part. But if this person is married, you shouldn't even start it, not mentioning work on it.

I bolded your part about unhappy couples. How do you think they are supposed to overcome their unhappiness if one of the partners is unwilling to work on the M? And the 'gift from God'? Not so much a mystery. These people either forgive each other more than others (i.e., affairs and stuff) or they're just blessed with having no problems. And you CAN be deeper in love with the same person long-term but it has to be sustainable. IOW, the other person makes it easy to stay or you forgive a multitude of sins, in a nutshell. But there is no mystery.

Massive generalisations about a hugely disparate group of people who have nothing in common but one coincidence of relationship type and position are bound to fail - unless, of course, someone is of the persuasion that prejudice matters more than observed reality.

Exactly. It appears that it is easier for us to lump those that we don't understand into a corner where we continue to misunderstand them and pray like hell they don't come out of the corner to sweep our partners away as if we have some sort of magical power. Boston Witch Hunt anyone?

[White Flower]

This along with what WF said as well in your quote (about anyone not seeing the writing ont he wall).

 

This was my biggest worry when I found out about my H's affair. I did not want to cling when cling was not wanted. I was afraid I would cling because I did feel very strongly for him. I didn't want him to feel sorry for me and stay, at the same time I didn't want him to think "oh she doesn't care" and go. Its also one of the reasons I sat on the knowledge for as long as I did and why I really wanted him to be the one to come out and tell me. I wanted to be able to see how he brought it up, what he said and what he didn't say.

 

CCL

You were very strategic which worked in your favor.

[Lovelybird]

If you really think you can obtain passion and chemistry through intimate communication you are sadly mistaken.

It is not what I think, I actually experienced this, if we have very good intimate communication, then I am really in a mood to be intimate phsycally with him, if we lack of intimate communication, I couldn't find that passion. Why people say the mind/heart is the most important sexual organ, I think this make very much sense.

 

Somehow I feel like your passion derive from unavailableness.

 

I bolded your part about unhappy couples. How do you think they are supposed to overcome their unhappiness if one of the partners is unwilling to work on the M? And the 'gift from God'? Not so much a mystery. These people either forgive each other more than others (i.e., affairs and stuff) or they're just blessed with having no problems. And you CAN be deeper in love with the same person long-term but it has to be sustainable. IOW, the other person makes it easy to stay or you forgive a multitude of sins, in a nutshell. But there is no mystery.

I think partly you are right. Why can those happy couples still in love, because they worked hard on themselves, be it forgiving, be it changing themselves, they find a way to reunite again and again. The mystery I am talking about is the mystery power come from God. Sometimes prayers can change things and people and dynamics, a situation between a couple can become better not because their human efforts, but because the mystery working of God. You can feel God is so close and watching and cares. You ask, you will get. (of course, only the rightful things that suits God's will) But there is right timing belongs to God.

 

Actually our understanding of love is so limited. If you love someone, you want him to be the one that God created him to be, integrity, honest, maturity.....all that good stuff. The need to have him in spite of helping him to be a man of less those good qualities is actually selfish, and this won't lead to good result. A woman compromises her values in order to keep the man would reap bad results. This is like golden rule, never fails in real life, but people don't care to use wisdom, and even use their whole life to rebel and test this golden rule.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Lovelybird

[White Flower]

It is not what I think, I actually experienced this, if we have very good intimate communication, then I am really in a mood to be intimate phsycally with him, if we lack of intimate communication, I couldn't find that passion. Why people say the mind/heart is the most important sexual organ, I think this make very much sense.

 

Somehow I feel like your passion derive from unavailableness.

I think partly you are right, we as women do feel more passion after communication but keep in mind that natural chemistry must already exist for the passion to stir. Also keep in mind that men tend to feel more communicative after sex but a smart one will try to communicate beforehand out of love for his partner. A woman must remember to give him raw sensual sex once in a while without expecting communication each time. We are opposites and must remember the core nature of each other to keep the balance.

 

But you are wrong about my passion deriving from unavailability. If you remember anything about my 25 year M you will understand it.

[reboot]

I think partly you are right, we as women do feel more passion after communication but keep in mind that natural chemistry must already exist for the passion to stir. Also keep in mind that men tend to feel more communicative after sex but a smart one will try to communicate beforehand out of love for his partner. A woman must remember to give him raw sensual sex once in a while without expecting communication each time. We are opposites and must remember the core nature of each other to keep

the balance.

 

It's sad how simple this concept is, how much difference it can make, and how long it takes some of us to figure it out.

 

And many never do.

[Lovelybird]

I think partly you are right, we as women do feel more passion after communication but keep in mind that natural chemistry must already exist for the passion to stir. Also keep in mind that men tend to feel more communicative after sex but a smart one will try to communicate beforehand out of love for his partner. A woman must remember to give him raw sensual sex once in a while without expecting communication each time. We are opposites and must remember the core nature of each other to keep the balance.

 

But you are wrong about my passion deriving from unavailability. If you remember anything about my 25 year M you will understand it.

You are right about the man and woman are different in this area, it is like a dilemma. When a man courts a woman, he will do his best to "offer" the communication and talk, trying to get to her heart, but after marriage some men just go directly to sex, not even consider the wife has communication need. After a while, then two unsatisfied partners begin to distant from each other.

 

Yesterday I watched a movie, it made me don't want to marry at all . The young couple in the movie get bored with their life, then the wife got an idea that they move to Paris and live there, this new thing can make them feel alive. then suddenly the wife got pregnant, their new hope went down to toilet. The wife cried, cried, cried every day, then both of them have an affair. In the end the wife self aborted the 12 weeks baby, and lost too much blood and died.

 

This movie made me thinking, is the marriage really that boring that people want to escape no matter what price they pay ?

 

Human's soul is infinite, trying to find finite things to fill their heart, such as the thrilling of an affair--the drama is so much that one doesn't have to feel the boredom of its life. But finite cannnot fulfill the infinite. The attempt to do so only get one more deeper in emptiness. I think

[White Flower]

I think partly you are right, we as women do feel more passion after communication but keep in mind that natural chemistry must already exist for the passion to stir. Also keep in mind that men tend to feel more communicative after sex but a smart one will try to communicate beforehand out of love for his partner. A woman must remember to give him raw sensual sex once in a while without expecting communication each time. We are opposites and must remember the core nature of each other to keep the balance.

 

It's sad how simple this concept is, how much difference it can make, and how long it takes some of us to figure it out.

 

And many never do.

 

You're right Reebs. If I could recommend two books to any couple suffering from this dynamic it would be Mars and Venus in the Bedroom by Dr. John Gray and his basic book, Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus as well. These books almost saved my M...only problem was I couldn't get my exH to read them. But I'd say our M lasted another 10 years simply because I had read them and made many changes within myself before throwing in the towel. Just think where we'd be if he had read them and taken it all to heart?

[White Flower]

You are right about the man and woman are different in this area, it is like a dilemma. When a man courts a woman, he will do his best to "offer" the communication and talk, trying to get to her heart, but after marriage some men just go directly to sex, not even consider the wife has communication need. After a while, then two unsatisfied partners begin to distant from each other.

 

Yesterday I watched a movie, it made me don't want to marry at all . The young couple in the movie get bored with their life, then the wife got an idea that they move to Paris and live there, this new thing can make them feel alive. then suddenly the wife got pregnant, their new hope went down to toilet. The wife cried, cried, cried every day, then both of them have an affair. In the end the wife self aborted the 12 weeks baby, and lost too much blood and died.

 

This movie made me thinking, is the marriage really that boring that people want to escape no matter what price they pay ?

 

Human's soul is infinite, trying to find finite things to fill their heart, such as the thrilling of an affair--the drama is so much that one doesn't have to feel the boredom of its life. But finite cannnot fulfill the infinite. The attempt to do so only get one more deeper in emptiness. I think

What a sad movie that must have been. And no, it isn't a boring M that provokes escape; it is the lack of love or needs being fulfilled after trying everything else that promotes escape.

 

I find it interesting that you understand that the human soul is infinite but that you can't understand that we need to see the writing on the wall when someone just doesn't love us anymore. When the love on their end is gone, there is little to nothing you can do to bring it back. That is what happened with my exH and I had to recognize it. Try as you might, but you can't make somebody love you.

 

And with that in mind, who is to say that, for example, anyone's MM or OW is not their soulmate from centuries beyond and centuries into the future? Why, if we M in this life, must our physical bond be 'infinite', but our spiritual one be discounted? (Of course I prefer they be one in the same, but...). If the question is too deep I don't blame you; the subject matter is paradoxical for sure and going off topic so I apologize in advance.

[Lovelybird]

What a sad movie that must have been. And no, it isn't a boring M that provokes escape; it is the lack of love or needs being fulfilled after trying everything else that promotes escape.

 

I find it interesting that you understand that the human soul is infinite but that you can't understand that we need to see the writing on the wall when someone just doesn't love us anymore. When the love on their end is gone, there is little to nothing you can do to bring it back. That is what happened with my exH and I had to recognize it. Try as you might, but you can't make somebody love you.

 

And with that in mind, who is to say that, for example, anyone's MM or OW is not their soulmate from centuries beyond and centuries into the future? Why, if we M in this life, must our physical bond be 'infinite', but our spiritual one be discounted? (Of course I prefer they be one in the same, but...). If the question is too deep I don't blame you; the subject matter is paradoxical for sure and going off topic so I apologize in advance.

"Soulmate" is a concept people still debate with each other.

 

It seems like you think the love between a man and a woman should be infinite, and their unite should be infinite, and then they are soulmate. If you think this way, you can justify any affair only by one sentense, "my husband isn't my soulmate", or "the married man/woman is my only soulmate". You mean you will find the infinite love in a human being? If you cannot find that in your husband, then you go on to find another?

 

Maybe this is where you go wrong, with your beliefs. The married man is unavailable, so you can imagine the love between you two is infinite, because you will never know for sure due to he is unavailableness, then you can imagine whatever you like to satisfy your heart and soul.

 

No, that is not what the infinite I am talking about. You can never find infinite love in a human being. We human can be part of infinite love, but cannot be all.

 

If we don't take in real love, it is hard for us to sustain love for defective human being on a daily basis, especially when they offend us and hurt us, especially in the daily routine marriage life. This is the reason I believe any dead relationship can be revived. If one or two persons take in true love, they can revive the love between them, and this is achieved not by an affair. I think you know what I am talking about, yes, God. and I see many real stories that they revived their love by taking in God's love and principles when their love were dead, and some even treated each other like enemies.

 

Being said that, I don't believe one can force anyone to love her or stay. I love to have choices, and so I will give others the same. But I don't believe one can find infinite love in a human being, because this can be used as excuses for escape, escape the responsibility that we really should develop our own ability to love. If you believe you should find the infinite love in a human being, then when one day the love become tough, then what you are going to do? that this one you thought as soulmate isn't the real soulmate? then go on to find next soulmate?

Edited May 25, 2010 by Lovelybird

[White Flower]

"Soulmate" is a concept people still debate with each other.

 

It seems like you think the love between a man and a woman should be infinite, and their unite should be infinite, and then they are soulmate. If you think this way, you can justify any affair only by one sentense, "my husband isn't my soulmate", or "the married man/woman is my only soulmate". You mean you will find the infinite love in a human being? If you cannot find that in your husband, then you go on to find another?

 

Maybe this is where you go wrong, with your beliefs. The married man is unavailable, so you can imagine the love between you two is infinite, because you will never know for sure due to he is unavailableness, then you can imagine whatever you like to satisfy your heart and soul.

 

No, that is not what the infinite I am talking about. You can never find infinite love in a human being. We human can be part of infinite love, but cannot be all.

 

If we don't take in real love, it is hard for us to sustain love for defective human being on a daily basis, especially when they offend us and hurt us, especially in the daily routine marriage life. This is the reason I believe any dead relationship can be revived. If one or two persons take in true love, they can revive the love between them, and this is achieved not by an affair. I think you know what I am talking about, yes, God. and I see many real stories that they revived their love by taking in God's love and principles when their love were dead, and some even treated each other like enemies.

 

Being said that, I don't believe one can force anyone to love her or stay. I love to have choices, and so I will give others the same. But I don't believe one can find infinite love in a human being, because this can be used as excuses for escape, escape the responsibility that we really should develop our own ability to love.

Sweetie you just keep putting words in my mouth. You can't assume so much, really.

 

I don't use my beliefs in love and infinity to justify my affair, that is ridiculous but you believe what you want to believe. It's been fun but we just cannot seem to have a deep conversation.

 

But know this, all human beings are...what did you say...defective. We all come to learn and to improve. If that weren't the case there would be no schools, no churces, no religions and not even a God. But there is one and that should tell you something. We can learn from all angles. Right now, I am learning from the angle of an OW. That's all.

 

Love and peace to you.

[Lovelybird]

It's been fun but we just cannot seem to have a deep conversation.

I feel the same as well, anyway I hope you will learn some good lessons for yourself and come out well.

[OWoman]

Try as you might, but you can't make somebody love you.

 

<T/j alert> But... can you make YOURSELF love someone?

[White Flower]

Human's soul is infinite, trying to find finite things to fill their heart, such as the thrilling of an affair--the drama is so much that one doesn't have to feel the boredom of its life. But finite cannnot fulfill the infinite. The attempt to do so only get one more deeper in emptiness. I think

I forgot to mention this one last thought. You, as well as the OP tend to define the OW or AP as that and only that. I am not defined by my affair. It has only taken place the last few years of my life and by focusing on that only you discount the rest of my life. I wasn't born an OW and I will not remain the OW. If I am not stuck on it, why should anybody else be including my future partner?

 

To the OP: if any man looks at my past and deems me unfit to be a part of his life simply because I was once the OW then he is not good enough for me. If he looks at it as sin, then he is not good enough to be a Christian because even Jesus died for the sinners he adored so much. I could not accept a hypocrite as my partner WHICH is, by the way, the reason I asked MM to shyte or get off the pot. I was tired of looking at a hypocrite.

 

Peace to you all.

[White Flower]

<T/j alert> But... can you make YOURSELF love someone?

Good question to ponder OWoman. I'll get back to you.

 

And in the meantime, perhaps you can answer the question as well.